Four Years with AI: Are We getting Smarter or Dumber?

Matt and Bill join Paul for the 100th episode of Humanity Working to look back at how the podcast has evolved from Way Too Busy to Making Remote Work and ultimately Humanity Working, and to explore where the conversation about work, AI, and human agency goes next. They revisit the early days of the podcast, from the chaos of working through COVID to the rise of remote work, and how quickly the nature of work has continued to change. They also reflect on the new kind of busyness created by AI, as increasingly powerful tools change what people are expected to accomplish and raise new questions about how humans stay in control of their work. The conversation then turns to AI's growing role in the mainstream, including the increasingly prominent debate around existential risk and whether advanced AI could pose a threat to humanity. Paul, Matt, and Bill explore why extreme narratives are so compelling, how our ideas about AI are shaped by the stories we've already seen in movies and television, and why assigning precise probabilities to unprecedented events is so difficult. They also discuss the importance of human judgment, reflection, and the ability to pause before acting as AI systems become increasingly capable.  Finally, Paul announces the next chapter for Humanity Working, with Matt taking a more active role in interviews and Bill joining the podcast as a regular voice. Together, they look ahead to a broader conversation about how humans can maintain agency as technology transforms work and society, and why long-form conversations and multiple perspectives may be essential to navigating what comes next.Resources Mentioned:Leading Change in the Era of AI — Bill KirstAmazon: Get the book here!Coffee & Change with Bill KirstPodcast: Listen here!Operations Utopia with Matt NealPodcast: Listen here!Peace of Chaos with Matt NealPodcast: Listen here!Humanity Working is a podcast focused on helping individuals, teams and organizations be ready for the future of work by maximizing their human potential.For more information, and access to our weekly newsletter, visit us at humanityworking.net.

Geoffrey Moore is an author, strategist, and longtime technology thinker whose work has focused on how technologies are adopted and how businesses adapt to technological change. He holds a doctoral degree in medieval and Renaissance literature and began his career in academia before moving into the software industry, where he worked in training, sales, and marketing. He's the author of seven business books, including Dealing with Darwin, and The Infinite Staircase, a philosophical exploration of emergence, human behavior, and what it means to live and act as human beings.In this episode, Paul and Geoffrey dig into the narratives shaping how we think about AI, including claims that advanced AI could pose an existential threat to humanity. They explore why humans are so susceptible to powerful stories, why critical thinking is essential when evaluating extreme predictions, and why Geoffrey sees malicious humans using AI as a more immediate concern than AI itself developing destructive intentions. They also examine what society can learn from the rise of social media, including how technology can amplify polarization and outpace our ability to adapt. The conversation then turns to ethics and responsibility, as Geoffrey lays out how AI companies can balance the needs of customers, their workforce, investors, partners, and communities, and why values such as trust and customer success should guide those decisions. They close with a deeper question about how technologies like AI are changing the way we think, behave, and understand what it means to be human.Resources Mentioned:The Infinite Staircase — Geoffrey MooreAmazon: Get the book here!Dealing with Darwin: How Great Companies Innovate at Every Phase of Their Evolution — Geoffrey MooreAmazon: Get the book here!Navigating the Age of Chaos: A Sense-Making Guide to a BANI World That Doesn’t Make Sense — Jamais Cascio and Bob JohansenAmazon: Get the book here!Humanity Working is a podcast focused on helping individuals, teams and organizations be ready for the future of work by maximizing their human potential.For more information, and access to our weekly newsletter, visit us at humanityworking.net.

Matt joins Paul for a follow-up conversation on a question that has become even more urgent four years into the generative-AI era: is AI making us smarter or dumber?They revisit concerns around cognitive offloading, lost skills, and the ease with which increasingly capable systems can do the thinking that once helped us learn. But Paul also makes the case that the story is more nuanced—and more hopeful—than it first appears. AI can take curious people down valuable learning rabbit holes, helping them explore topics and build knowledge they may never have encountered otherwise.Paul and Matt explore why the decline of prompt engineering may matter more than it seems: as AI becomes better at interpreting what we mean, we may no longer need to practice the questioning, iteration, and precision that earlier tools demanded. They also discuss the difference between AI’s original “chat era” and an emerging “builder era,” in which people use AI to create apps, tools, and eventually physical things.The conversation examines the importance of time in developing human wisdom, judgment, taste, and expertise—capabilities that cannot simply be downloaded or instantly acquired. They consider why AI may be making some people less capable in certain ways while helping a smaller group of active builders develop powerful new skills.The episode ultimately asks whether we can remain intentional about what we outsource to AI, preserve the capabilities that matter most, and ensure the next generation develops the wisdom needed to stay meaningfully in control of an increasingly powerful technology.Resources Mentioned:7BQAAI Question Two: Is AI Making Us Dumber?Article: Read here!The AI-Ready Human: Your 90-Day Program to Stay Relevant as Technology Transforms Work — Paul SlaterAmazon: Get the book here!Humanity Working is a podcast focused on helping individuals, teams and organizations be ready for the future of work by maximizing their human potential.For more information, and access to our weekly newsletter, visit us at humanityworking.net.

Kyle McDowell is a leadership speaker, advisor, and the Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestselling author of Begin With WE: 10 Principles for Building and Sustaining a Culture of Excellence. After more than two decades in corporate leadership including leading a 15,000-person, $7 billion program. Kyle stepped away from the fear-based leadership habits he had learned and developed the “10 We’s”: a practical framework for creating cultures where people take ownership, treat one another well, and perform at a high level.In this episode, Paul and Kyle go deep into all 10 principles behind Begin With WE, beginning with the personal reckoning that led Kyle to create them. They explore why meaningful culture change starts with honest self-reflection, why simple leadership ideas are not necessarily easy to live out, and why a keynote or mission statement alone will not transform an organization. They also unpack principles such as doing the right thing always, leading by example, embracing challenge, obsessing over details, and explain why the real power comes from practicing all 10 together, every day.Resources Mentioned:Begin With WE: 10 Principles for Building and Sustaining a Culture of Excellence — Kyle McDowell Amazon: Get the book here!Begin With WE — Interactive Program Link Here!Any Dumb-Ass Can Do It — Garry Ridge & Martha I. FinneyAmazon: Get the book here!Humanity Working is a podcast focused on helping individuals, teams and organizations be ready for the future of work by maximizing their human potential.For more information, and access to our weekly newsletter, visit us at humanityworking.net.

Matt joins Paul for another episode in the “Seven Big Questions About AI” series to explore a provocative question: why do big AI rollouts keep failing? They unpack whether the widely reported failures of generative AI projects are really about the technology itself, or whether organizations are approaching AI with the wrong expectations, metrics, and assumptions about what transformation actually means.The conversation explores why traditional measures of ROI may not fully capture the value of AI, particularly when organizations expect immediate, measurable business results from a technology that is changing how work gets done. They also examine the enormous hype surrounding AI, the fear of falling behind competitors, and the growing backlash against AI from people who see it as disruptive, unnecessary, or simply producing “slop.” Paul and Matt discuss how these reactions can obscure a more important question: what are organizations actually trying to transform?They then compare AI transformation with the digital transformation that preceded it. While digital transformation was largely a technology transformation with a human component, Matt argues that AI transformation fundamentally reverses that relationship. AI is a human transformation with a technology component, because it has the potential to change what people do, how they work, how teams operate, and ultimately how organizations are designed. The conversation explores why simply adding AI training or asking employees to adopt new tools is unlikely to be enough, particularly when many people never wanted the technology in the first place.Paul and Matt also discuss the risks of approaching AI transformation through the same playbook used for digital transformation, including the tendency to treat people as an afterthought and the temptation to reduce headcount before understanding how AI will actually change the organization. They explore why organizations may be better served by slowing down, understanding the value of the capabilities they already have, and resisting the constant pressure to deploy the newest AI technology simply because competitors are doing so.The conversation ultimately turns to what organizations may need to look like in an AI-driven environment. Matt argues that traditional organizational structures may need to become more flexible and adaptable, with teams forming and disbanding around specific problems and opportunities rather than remaining fixed indefinitely. Using the movie industry and Christopher Nolan’s “The Odyssey” as an example of this kind of “swarming,” they explore how AI could enable organizations to assemble focused teams around ideas, create value quickly, and then reorganize for the next challenge. The episode ultimately argues that big AI rollouts fail not because organizations lack access to powerful technology, but because they are approaching a fundamentally human transformation as if it were simply another technology implementation.Resources Mentioned:Understanding Organizations...Finally! — Henry MintzbergAmazon: Get the book here!Designing for Change: Time for a Future of Work ExecutiveArticle: Read here!Humanity Working is a podcast focused on helping individuals, teams and organizations be ready for the future of work by maximizing their human potential.For more information, and access to our weekly newsletter, visit us at humanityworking.net.

Carol Pearlman is a psychologist and one of the pioneers of cognitive behavioral treatment programs for adults with ADHD, where she's spent more than two decades developing, researching, and applying practical strategies for managing attention, time, and executive functioning. She later expanded that work to the general population through her healthy habits programs, and today she also consults with organizations and leaders on how to streamline workflows and work more efficiently. She's also the host of the podcast Healthy Habits for Life.In this episode, Paul and Carol dig into why so many people today experience ADHD-like symptoms, and whether the problem is ADHD itself or what Ned Hallowell calls a “severe case of modern life.” They unpack how clinicians distinguish adult ADHD from the ordinary struggles of a distracted world, why medication can quiet the noise but can't teach you how to prioritize, and why the systems that help people thrive need to be tailored to how they actually work. They also explore why repeated failures with planners, habits, and productivity systems can create a lasting fear of trying again, and how changing the stories we tell ourselves can change our behavior. They close with a look at the modern workplace, the disappearance of traditional guardrails, and what leaders can do to give people the structure they need to thrive. Resources Mentioned:Healthy Habits 4 Life Podcast with Carol PearlmanPodcast: Listen here!I Think I Have Adult ADHD... Now What? Podcast Episode: Listen here!Mastering Your Adult ADHD: A Cognitive-Behavioral Treatment Program, Client Workbook (Treatments That Work)Amazon: Get the book here!ADHD 2.0: New Science and Essential Strategies for Thriving with Distraction--from Childhood through Adulthood — Edward M. Hallowell M.D., John J. Ratey M.D.Amazon: Get the book here!Humanity Working is a podcast focused on helping individuals, teams and organizations be ready for the future of work by maximizing their human potential.For more information, and access to our weekly newsletter, visit us at humanityworking.net.

Matt joins Paul for another episode in the “Seven Big Questions About AI” series to explore a provocative question: is generative AI actually good at anything meaningful?They unpack what it really means for AI to be “good” at something, distinguishing between being useful or effective and producing genuine quality. The conversation explores why this distinction matters as generative AI moves deeper into creative work, where quality can depend on originality, surprise, and the ability to produce something that feels genuinely new rather than simply replicating what already exists.The conversation examines whether AI can ever create work that meets those higher standards, including why its ability to predict what comes next may make genuine surprise and originality difficult. They also explore the role of the human in the loop, and why simply having a human involved isn't enough. Matt argues that humans should be deeply engaged at the beginning and end of the creative process, using AI to refine and extend their thinking without allowing it to define the creative direction or erase their individual voice.Paul and Matt also discuss the growing appeal of AI's ability to produce work that is “good enough,” particularly inside organizations, and whether a world flooded with efficient but mediocre AI-generated content could ultimately make quality more valuable. They explore what this could mean for customer service, creative work, and the broader workplace, including the possibility that distinctly human qualities such as judgment, imperfection, and human-to-human connection could become increasingly important differentiators.The episode ultimately asks where AI genuinely adds value and where humans remain essential, arguing that the most powerful future may not be AI replacing human creativity, but humans and AI combining their respective strengths to create things neither could produce alone.Resources Mentioned:The AI-Ready Human: Your 90-Day Program to Stay Relevant as Technology Transforms Work — Paul SlaterAmazon: Get the book here!7BQAAI Question Three: Is Generative AI actually good at anything meaningful?Article: Read here!The Beatles - Now And Then (Official Music Video)YouTube: Listen and watch here!Epic: Elvis Presley in ConcertYouTube: Listen here!Humanity Working is a podcast focused on helping individuals, teams and organizations be ready for the future of work by maximizing their human potential.For more information, and access to our weekly newsletter, visit us at humanityworking.net.

Dr. Yosi Amram is a psychologist, executive coach, entrepreneur, and author of Spiritually Intelligent Leadership. He created the first measurable definition of spiritual intelligence and has coached more than 100 CEOs, drawing on his experience as a CEO of a public company and as a founder and investor in technology businesses. His work explores how qualities like purpose, service, compassion, gratitude, humility, presence, and integrity can become practical capabilities for more effective leadership.In this episode, Paul and Yosi dig into what spiritual intelligence actually means, and why it has nothing to do with being religious or believing in a higher power. They unpack the qualities that make leaders genuinely inspiring, including why you need to be inspired yourself before you can inspire others, and how purpose, authenticity, presence, and a willingness to do what is right rather than simply prove yourself right shape the way leaders work with others. Yosi also shares the extraordinary personal journey that led him from a successful Silicon Valley CEO, through a profound spiritual awakening and the collapse of his company and career, to his doctoral research and the development of a framework for measuring spiritual intelligence. They close with a look at why these distinctly human capabilities, creativity, compassion, connection, and meaning, may become even more important as AI automates more knowledge work, and how to use AI without allowing our own human capacities to atrophy.Resources Mentioned:Spiritually Intelligent Leadership: How to Inspire by Being Inspired — Yosi AmramAmazon: Get the book here!Surviving and Thriving in the Age of Artificial IntelligenceArticle: Read here!Character Strengths and Virtues: A Handbook and Classification — Christopher Peterson and Martin SeligmanArticle: Read here!Humanity Working is a podcast focused on helping individuals, teams and organizations be ready for the future of work by maximizing their human potential.For more information, and access to our weekly newsletter, visit us at humanityworking.net.

Matt joins Paul for the second episode in the “Seven Big Questions About AI” series to explore a provocative question: is AI actually making us dumber?They unpack concerns that AI may be changing how people learn, remember, focus, and think, including stories from people who find they can complete work with AI but struggle to recall or explain what they actually did. Paul also introduces the Flynn Effect and its reversal, exploring evidence that measures of human intelligence have declined across multiple countries and what broader societal and technological changes might have contributed.The conversation examines the difference between getting things done and actually learning, and how AI can decouple the two by allowing people to accomplish tasks without developing the knowledge and skills that traditionally came from doing them. They also explore the “utility argument” behind technologies like calculators and smartphones, where outsourcing certain mental tasks can free us to focus on more complex ones, and why AI’s ability to shortcut almost everything could be fundamentally different.Paul and Matt discuss why human intelligence still matters in a world increasingly shaped by AI, including the importance of people remaining capable of guiding, questioning, and controlling powerful technology. They also look at how the way and timing of AI use can affect our development, and why thinking through a problem ourselves before turning to AI can lead to richer work, stronger learning, and greater human agency.The episode ultimately asks whether AI will become a useful tool that helps us stretch our capabilities, or a crutch that gradually replaces the thinking and learning we once did for ourselves.Resources Mentioned:The AI-Ready Human: Your 90-Day Program to Stay Relevant as Technology Transforms Work — Paul SlaterAmazon: Get the book here!7BQAAI Question Two: Is AI Making Us Dumber?Article: Read here!The Reverse Flynn EffectArticle: Read here!Humanity Working is a podcast focused on helping individuals, teams and organizations be ready for the future of work by maximizing their human potential.For more information, and access to our weekly newsletter, visit us at humanityworking.net.

Mark Peters is CEO of Butterball Farms, a family-owned food manufacturing company where he has spent decades thinking differently about what it means to be an employer. He is also the founder of The Source, an organization that helps employees navigate challenges like transportation, childcare, healthcare, food insecurity, and other barriers that can make it difficult to stay in the workforce. His work focuses on building more resilient people, businesses, and communities, and his new book, The Retention Trap, challenges conventional thinking about how companies approach talent.In this episode, Paul and Mark dig into why companies tend to think about talent defensively, focusing on retaining people rather than creating an ecosystem where talent can flow and grow. They explore how helping employees achieve basic stability can give them the capacity to think about their future, and why investing in someone's development can still create value even if that person eventually leaves the company. Mark shares the thinking behind his new iNexus initiative, which brings employers together to help workers move into higher-paying careers, and they discuss why small and mid-sized companies may need to rethink their approach to talent if they want to stay competitive. They also explore how businesses can move beyond blaming schools, government, or other external factors and recognize their own role in building stronger people, workplaces, and communities.Resources Mentioned:The Retention Trap: Stop Measuring Turnover, Start Measuring Talent Investment — Mark PetersAmazon: Get the book here!The Source — Mark PetersAmazon: Get the book here!Interested in learning more about Mark’s work or exploring opportunities to work with him?Connect with Mark on LinkedIn: Here!Humanity Working is a podcast focused on helping individuals, teams and organizations be ready for the future of work by maximizing their human potential.For more information, and access to our weekly newsletter, visit us at humanityworking.net.