Genuine Curiosity: Not All Questions Are Equal – Are You Trying to Understand, Defend, Manipulate, or Control?

What if an entire generation is emotionally stuck in childhood—and doesn't even know it? In this compelling guest appearance on The Steph and Craig Show, Tony dives deep into what he calls "the emotional immaturity epidemic" that's quietly sabotaging relationships everywhere. Discover the hidden patterns that keep adults reacting like children: black-and-white thinking that destroys nuance, magical thinking that avoids reality, and the exhausting habit of managing everyone else's emotions instead of allowing people to have their own experiences. Through real-life examples and practical insights, you'll learn to recognize these childhood survival strategies that have become adult relationship roadblocks. Whether you're the people-pleaser who can't say no, the perfectionist who fears vulnerability, or the controller trying to manage everyone's feelings, this conversation offers eye-opening insights into how these patterns formed—and more importantly, how to outgrow them. What you'll discover: • Why emotional reasoning ("I feel it, so it must be true") sabotages relationships • How childhood adaptations become adult limitations • Practical tools for recognizing your own emotional immaturity patterns • Actionable strategies for developing genuine emotional maturity Ready to stop reacting from your inner child and start responding from your wise adult self? This episode will show you exactly where to begin. Find The Steph and Craig Show at stephandcraig.co 00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview 00:34 Guest Introduction: Steph and Craig 02:22 Emotional Immaturity Epidemic 04:18 Therapy Insights and Personal Anecdotes 05:24 Interview Begins: Revisiting Past Conversations 06:52 Emotional Weight in Relationships 09:55 Understanding Emotional Immaturity 13:02 Inner Child and Emotional Development 27:35 Black and White Thinking in Relationships 30:55 Reflecting on Past Behaviors 31:53 The Power of Language in Relationships 33:07 Understanding Black or White Thinking 34:45 Magical Thinking and Emotional Maturity 43:12 Emotional Reasoning in Adults 58:46 Navigating Faith and Personal Validation 01:00:13 The Impact of External Validation on Self-Identity 01:00:42 The Role of Accountability and Magical Thinking 01:01:16 Spiritual Perspectives on Differentiation 01:02:37 Emotional Boundaries and Responsibility 01:04:35 Navigating Emotional Charges in Relationships 01:06:48 The Journey of Emotional Maturity 01:11:30 Mind Reading and Assumptions in Relationships 01:16:10 The Continuous Learning Process 01:23:31 The Importance of Emotional Maturity 01:26:05 Final Thoughts and Call to Action Contact Tony at [email protected] to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

Are you truly being curious—or just trying to win the argument? Tony explores the difference between genuine curiosity and performative questions, sharing real-life examples and tools to help you respond with emotional maturity, not reactivity. Learn how curiosity can transform your relationships. 00:00 Introduction and Host Background 01:42 Understanding Performative vs. Genuine Curiosity 02:04 A Personal Story About Curiosity 08:50 The Importance of Genuine Curiosity in Relationships 19:10 Self-Regulation and Emotional Maturity 24:18 Promoting Genuine Curiosity in Parenting 26:17 The Role of Humility in Curiosity 29:41 Healthy Ego vs. Defensive Narcissism 35:03 The Neuroscience of Decision Making and Emotions 37:06 The Power of Slowing Down 37:36 Understanding Emotions: Primary, Secondary, and Instrumental 41:02 Exploring Anger in Relationships 42:48 Trusting Your Gut and Emotional Reasoning 45:41 Addressing Men's Emotional Immaturity 48:55 Real-Life Examples of Genuine Curiosity 53:42 Parenting with Curiosity 55:09 Curiosity in Marriage and Workplace 59:47 Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Tools 01:02:15 Four Pillars of a Connected Conversation 01:05:20 Final Thoughts and Takeaways Contact Tony at [email protected] to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

Marla Christensen, AMFT, APCC, and Tony Overbay, LMFT, delve into Ethan Kross's "Shift: Managing Your Emotions So They Don't Manage You" for another installment of the "Virtual Couch Book Club." They explore emotional awareness, sensory shifts, and cultural influences on emotional well-being. Practical techniques, such as distant self-talk and the Whoop framework (Wish, Outcome, Obstacle, Plan), are covered, offering listeners actionable strategies for emotional management. Tony opens the episode by explaining how common parental phrases, such as "it's not a big deal" or "just don't worry about it," can unintentionally hinder emotional expression in adulthood, setting the stage for struggles with managing emotions later in life. This discussion offers valuable insights for individuals seeking to understand better and manage their emotions. 00:00 A Touching Parenting Moment 02:22 Introduction to the Virtual Couch 02:31 Book Club: Managing Emotions 03:16 The Importance of Emotional Awareness 03:37 Understanding Emotional Language 04:44 The Disconnect from Emotions 06:01 Introducing Dr. Ethan Cross's 'Shift' 06:23 Meet Marla Christiansen 07:33 Exploring Emotional Concepts from 'Shift' 07:46 The Complexity of Emotions 08:05 Practical Tools for Emotional Management 08:20 The Power of Distanced Self-Talk 08:37 External Influences on Emotions 09:02 Body Awareness and Emotions 09:12 Navigating Difficult Emotions 09:24 Impact of Social Media and Cultural Factors 09:37 Appreciating Emotions as Information 10:18 Book Club Discussion: 'Shift' by Dr. Ethan Cross 10:30 Starting the Interview with Marla Christensen 11:24 Diving into Emotional Regulation 11:43 Book Club Insights and Personal Reflections 22:58 The Law of Least Work 25:01 Exploring Low-Cost Emotional Shifts 25:40 Understanding Attention and Perspective 26:10 Navigating Emotional Avoidance and Approach 27:27 The Power of Reframing 29:29 Distanced Self-Talk: A Unique Approach 31:07 Shifting Emotions Through Environment 33:44 The Role of Relationships in Emotional Shifts 37:24 Cultural Influences on Emotions 39:37 The Impact of Comparison 42:37 Practical Tools for Emotional Mastery 44:06 Final Thoughts and Resources

What if the very strategies that saved you as a child are now sabotaging your adult relationships? In Part 2 of Tony's series on emotional immaturity, discover why your most persistent relationship struggles aren't character flaws—they're outdated survival software still running in the background of your life. Through the powerful ACT metaphor of "The Man in the Hole," you'll understand why working harder with familiar emotional tools only digs you deeper into relationship problems. When someone offers you a ladder out of your patterns, why do you keep trying to dig with it instead? This episode reveals how to recognize when it's time to put down the shovel of old coping strategies and climb toward something completely different. Meet the clients who've made this transformation: the chronic fixer who learned to ask "what do you need from me?" instead of immediately solving, the humor-deflector who shocked a room into silence by sharing something real, and the lifelong people-pleaser whose hands shook as she said "no" for the first time—and discovered her marriage actually got stronger. You'll explore Terry Real's revolutionary insight that childhood adaptations become adult roadblocks, learn the art of re-parenting yourself with compassion instead of criticism, and discover why emotional maturity isn't about never falling into old patterns—it's about recognizing when you're there and having new tools to respond. Whether you struggle with hypervigilance, perfectionism, control issues, or people-pleasing tendencies, this episode offers a shame-free framework for honoring your inner child's brilliant survival strategies while empowering your adult self to take the lead. Because growth isn't about eliminating your protective parts—it's about expanding your repertoire of responses and choosing consciously instead of reacting automatically. Ready to stop digging and start climbing? Your ladder awaits. 00:00 Introduction and Recap 01:23 The Story of Tyler 03:53 Tyler's Realization and Therapy 09:39 Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Metaphor 15:46 Revisiting Emotional Immaturity 19:30 Reparenting Yourself 25:05 Examples of Reparenting in Action 29:00 Exploring Emotional Immaturity Traits 40:54 Recognizing and Validating Emotions 42:47 Dependence on External Validation 48:54 Taking Ownership and Accountability 51:49 Mind Reading and Communication 01:03:55 Hypervigilance and Emotional Containment 01:07:12 Perfectionism and Control 01:11:49 Integration and Emotional Maturity 01:15:57 Real-Life Examples of Emotional Growth 01:22:05 The Journey of Emotional Maturity

Have you ever watched someone you care about repeatedly return to a relationship that's clearly hurting them, despite all logic and reason? Or found yourself unable to break free from a partner who alternates between cruel indifference and intoxicating affection? Tony Overbay, LMFT, comprehensively examines all of the factors at play in hopes of shining a light on understanding and ultimately healing from one of psychology's most misunderstood phenomena: trauma bonding. Tony explains how the same mechanisms that kept B.F. Skinner's rats frantically pressing a lever for unpredictable rewards are at work in toxic relationships. He explains the biological "amygdala hijack" that literally shuts down one's ability to think rationally when anxiety strikes and why well-meaning advice like "just don't worry about it" actually makes things worse through psychological reactance. This comprehensive episode covers: The neurological science behind trauma bonding and why it creates addiction-like withdrawal symptoms How childhood experiences shape our relationship with emotions and set us up for unhealthy patterns Why telling someone "don't think about it" guarantees they'll think about it more The critical difference between guilt ("I did something bad") and shame ("I am bad") Practical ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) techniques like expansion and mindfulness The powerful Buddhist salt and water metaphor for managing emotional pain Why no one—not even identical twins—experiences the world exactly as you do How to break the cycle of seeking external validation that keeps you trapped Whether you're personally experiencing a trauma bond, supporting someone who is, or simply want to understand why people stay in painful relationships, this episode provides compassionate insight and practical tools for healing. Tony's conversational style makes complex psychological concepts accessible while offering hope that with time, understanding, and the right support, you can reclaim your emotional autonomy and build healthier connections. 00:00 Introduction: The Impact of 'Say Anything' 01:21 Setting the Stage: Understanding Relationship Dynamics 01:50 Who This Episode is For 03:10 Introduction to Trauma Bonding 04:03 Welcome to the Virtual Couch 04:35 Engage with Us: Social Media and Upcoming Events 07:04 The Concept of Trauma Bonding 16:51 The Science Behind Trauma Bonding 21:25 Understanding the Amygdala Hijack 21:49 The Impact of Stress Hormones on the Brain 23:03 The Cycle of Trauma Bonding 24:21 The Ineffectiveness of Well-Meaning Advice 24:59 Psychological Reactance and the White Bear Effect 26:24 Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) 28:18 The Concept of Expansion 30:05 Mindfulness and Changing Your Relationship with Thoughts 32:27 Guilt vs. Shame 34:11 Healing from Trauma Bonds 36:45 The Importance of Self-Validation 43:43 Seeking Support and Practicing Mindfulness

Do you avoid difficult conversations, hoping problems will magically disappear? Do you convince yourself you don’t need to write things down, because of course you’ll remember later? Or maybe you catch yourself trying to be everything to everyone… and slowly losing yourself in the process? Join Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Tony Overbay and his daughter Mackie, a licensed esthetician, and cosmetologist, and host of the podcast “The Mind, the Mirror, and Me,” for a lively and insightful live Q&A. Together, they explore the sneaky ways magical thinking and emotional immaturity show up in our lives and relationships. From assuming people should “just know” what we want, to struggling with overthinking and honesty in relationships, this conversation dives deep (with plenty of humor and personal stories along the way). You’ll also hear about: What “pick me” behavior really means and how it impacts relationships How magical thinking keeps us stuck (and how to move forward) Navigating diagnoses like borderline personality disorder and emotional immaturity Why honesty in relationships isn’t as simple as “just say it” Handling complicated family dynamics — including emotionally absent grandparents Tools like mindfulness and ACT-based techniques to help you change your relationship with your thoughts Whether you're a therapist, a parent, or simply curious about emotional growth, this honest and relatable episode will leave you thinking differently about how you show up for yourself and others. 00:00 Introduction and Technical Difficulties 00:19 Foot Talk and Live Stream Banter 01:11 Licensed Therapist Q&A Begins 01:21 Understanding Narcissistic Traits 02:06 Exploring the 'Pick Me' Phenomenon 03:20 Therapy Insights: Finding Your True Self 05:40 Addressing Borderline Personality Disorder 14:05 Magical Thinking and Emotional Immaturity 26:08 Mindfulness and Thought Observation Techniques 27:02 The Concept of Changing Relationship with Thoughts 27:32 Discussion on Honesty in Relationships 31:16 Handling Family Dynamics and Expectations 33:54 Understanding Bipolar Disorder vs. Anger Issues 37:43 The Role of Thoughts, Behaviors, and Feelings 46:03 Freudian Theories and Emotional Maturity 50:39 Final Thoughts and Viewer Questions

Ever wondered why your brilliant mind can solve complex problems at work but completely breaks down during relationship conflicts? That's because those emotional reactions that feel so instinctive aren't flaws—they're actually genius survival strategies that once kept you safe. In this transformative episode, we explore how black-and-white thinking, mind-reading expectations, and external validation seeking were perfect childhood adaptations that have now become relationship roadblocks. Through the groundbreaking insight that behaviors which perfectly served us in childhood often become the very patterns that sabotage our adult relationships, you'll finally understand why you keep falling into familiar emotional patterns despite your best intentions. This isn't just another episode about relationship struggles—it's a compassionate roadmap for emotional growth that honors both your wounded inner child and your emerging adult self. You'll discover how to recognize when you're in an emotional "hole" and why continuing to dig with familiar tools only takes you deeper. Most importantly, you'll learn how to pass the baton from your protective inner child to your capable adult self without shame or judgment. Whether you struggle with people-pleasing, emotional flooding, perfectionism, or control issues, this episode offers a strength-based approach to transform these patterns into mature responses that will revolutionize your relationships and bring a profound sense of internal peace. 00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview 00:23 Listener Email: Mark's Story 01:41 Understanding Emotional Immaturity 04:47 Exploring the Emotional Maturity Spectrum 08:47 Introducing the Emotional Architects Group 09:29 Narcissistic Personality Disorder vs. Emotional Immaturity 11:08 Dinner with Daniel: A Narcissistic Narrative 15:47 Stages of Emotional Maturity 26:18 Childhood Behaviors in Adult Bodies 32:45 Understanding Emotional Blueprints 33:07 Re-parenting with Compassion 33:32 Therapeutic Insights from Fiction 34:23 Frozen Moments and Adult Relationships 35:16 Childhood Adaptations in Adult Life 36:17 Exploring Childlike Behaviors in Adults 36:57 Navigating Emotional Development 41:34 Black or White Thinking 44:43 Magical Thinking in Relationships 47:46 Emotional Reasoning and Codependency 52:32 External Validation and Accountability 55:41 Mind Reading and Projection 01:01:32 Pattern Recognition and Familiarity 01:07:12 Path Toward Emotional Maturity 01:07:52 Conclusion and Next Steps

Have you ever found yourself wondering, How can someone possibly believe that? Or maybe you've questioned your own beliefs after bumping up against someone else's certainty? You're not alone. In this episode, Tony Overbay, LMFT, dives into the complexities of perception, truth, and emotional maturity. He explores how individuals often encounter differing viewpoints—especially in today’s social media-driven world—and how those experiences can lead to frustration, confusion, and even self-doubt. Using concepts like Umwelt and the importance of distinguishing between objective facts and subjective experiences, Tony offers insight into how each person’s unique background and personal history shape the way they see and move through the world. Through personal stories and reflections, he emphasizes the power of curiosity, empathy, and openness in building real, meaningful connections. Tony also shares parts of his own professional and spiritual journey, including the impact of his faith crisis, and how discomfort can often become a catalyst for deep personal growth. He reflects on the therapist-client relationship, unpacking the balance between professional boundaries and genuine emotional connection. And as always, Tony encourages listeners to embrace curiosity, hold healthy boundaries, and continue showing up as their most authentic selves. 00:00 Introduction: The Frustration of Misunderstanding 02:11 Exploring the Concept of 'Truth' 03:08 Host Introduction and Social Media Presence 04:21 Personal Story: Spinal Surgery Experience 05:26 Diving into the Topic of 'Truth' and Perception 07:15 The German Concept of Umwelt 12:22 Faith Journeys and Personal Perceptions 14:41 Emotional Maturity and Sense of Self 27:53 Job Interviews and Authenticity 32:13 Case Study: Spiritual Expectations 35:42 Thriving Without Sleep 35:52 The Faith Crisis Hits 35:59 Understanding the Pendulum Swing 36:15 Unique Faith Journeys 37:06 Embracing Personal Growth 37:25 The Beauty of Diverse Faith Outcomes 37:48 Navigating Faith Deconstruction 38:42 The Reframe: Moving Forward 38:53 Faith in Yourself and God 39:06 Riding Without Training Wheels 39:31 Respecting Different Journeys 40:04 The Hero's Journey 40:21 Helping Others Through Faith Crisis 40:56 Developing a Strong Sense of Self 41:29 Working with Faith Leaders 42:03 Emotional Immaturity in Faith Communities 42:41 The Power of Parables 43:14 Unspoken Pressures in Religious Settings 43:44 The Hypothetical Couple: Jack and Jill 45:59 Humanistic Therapy Principles 47:46 Intermittent Reinforcement and Trauma Bonding 48:58 The Four Pillars of a Connected Conversation 50:57 Separating Observations from Judgments 56:25 The Therapist's Emotional Journey 58:06 The Paradox of Therapy 01:02:11 Navigating Discomfort in Relationships 01:04:20 Concluding Thoughts and Encouragement

Tony, a licensed marriage and family therapist, author, speaker, and podcast host, welcomes viewers to an engaging TikTok Live session. Joined by his daughter Mackie, Tony answers questions on various topics including relationships, mental health, and narcissism. They discuss the concept of the shadow self, the 'Let Them' theory, handling emotional triggers, and the importance of differentiation in relationships. Tony offers advice on dealing with controlling siblings, building clientele as a therapist, managing ADHD and its effects, and overcoming trust issues in relationships. They also touch on practical self-care tips and the journey of personal growth, using real-life examples and interactive discussions with their audience. 00:00 Welcome to TikTok Live 00:10 Introducing the Hosts 00:16 Engaging with Viewers 02:12 Discussing the Shadow Self 04:55 Exploring Family Dynamics 05:51 Romantic Relationships and Vulnerability 06:35 Understanding Emotional Reactions 08:07 Differentiation and Parental Influence 09:59 Setting Boundaries with Parents 10:47 The 'Let Them' Theory 15:20 Dealing with Emotional Regression 17:29 Navigating Breakups and Grief 20:43 Control and Mental Health 22:16 Book Recommendations for Couples 24:09 Making Small Changes for Big Impact 29:56 Managing Depression and Anxiety 31:43 Understanding and Accepting Anxiety 32:28 Facing Fears and Building Connections 33:43 Navigating Negative Environments 38:22 Inner Critic and Self-Acceptance 42:00 Challenges in Therapy and Relationships 01:01:59 Dealing with ADHD and Rejection Sensitivity 01:05:20 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

When Ashlee Boyson answered her door at age 28 to find detectives bearing unimaginable news—her husband murdered, an affair revealed—she became a widow with five children including a six-week-old baby. In this powerful episode of the Virtual Couch, Tony Overbay, LMFT, explores how this defining moment led Ashlee to become not just a survivor, but a guide for others navigating grief's complex terrain. Her groundbreaking book "One Day: A Child's Journey Through Grief and Loss," illustrated by her daughter Bostyn, takes a revolutionary approach by deliberately omitting facial expressions and colors—creating space for authentic emotions rather than prescribing how one "should" feel when grieving. Beyond the book, Tony and Ashlee dive into the messy truth of grief—how contradictory emotions can coexist, why well-intentioned comfort often invalidates emotional reality, and practical strategies for creating genuine healing. With moments of unexpected laughter amidst profound wisdom, they explore how Ashlee's journey led her to develop courses on infidelity and widowhood, practice foot zoning, and most importantly, help parents understand that there's no "right way" to grieve. Whether you're personally experiencing loss or supporting someone who is, this conversation offers a masterclass in compassionate presence and emotional intelligence that transcends age, making it essential listening for anyone seeking to process grief authentically. 00:00 Introduction and Announcements 01:35 Introducing Ashley Boyson 02:10 Ashley's Incredible Story 03:27 Ashley's Journey Through Grief 03:54 Discussing Ashley's New Book 12:04 The Healing Power of Foot Zoning 17:40 The Importance of Emotional Awareness 26:35 Addressing Children's Emotional Pain 27:06 Recognizing and Validating Emotions 27:45 Personal Experiences with Suppressed Emotions 28:52 Navigating Grief and Loss 30:33 Complex Emotions and Healing 31:30 The Importance of Open Communication 32:25 Balancing Past and Future Fears 34:11 Encouraging Emotional Expression in Children 35:51 Handling Grief Triggers 43:45 The Role of Truth in Healing 46:21 Final Thoughts and Resources