How Can Change Be Funny, Scary, and Uncomfortable… and Still Be Necessary for Growth? (with Mackie Overbay)

Tony and his daughter Mackie (@beautybymackie) catch up on a lot of life. Since the last time they hit record, Mackie has navigated big career shifts, health challenges, and new adventures. Tony has faced major surgery and the loss of his mom (Mackie’s grandmother). Together, they dive into the messy, uncomfortable, and often hilarious realities of change — why our brains resist it, why it feels so daunting in the moment, and why it’s actually the engine of growth. From dad jokes about Gen Z slang to real talk about autoimmune diagnoses, resilience, and reinventing yourself, this conversation is equal parts laughter, honesty, and insight. If you’re navigating your own season of change, this episode will remind you that discomfort isn’t just survivable — it’s what shapes who you’re becoming. Follow Mackie on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/beautybymackie or Tiktok https://www.tiktok.com/@beautybymackie or subscribe to "The Mind, The Mirror and Me" wherever you listen to podcasts! 00:00 Welcome and Introduction 00:30 The Struggle with Change 02:16 Introducing Mackey McKinley 02:44 Life Updates and Major Changes 02:58 The Humor in Processing Change 03:25 Practical Gifts and Life Lessons 03:32 Social Media and Upcoming Events 04:10 Conversation with Mackey Begins 04:17 Casual Banter and Podcast Revival 05:56 Mackey's Career Journey 10:17 Health Challenges and Lifestyle Changes 28:21 The Concept of Healthy Ego 30:49 Defensive Ego and Feelings of Inferiority 31:10 Insecurity in Professional Settings 31:18 Hypersensitivity and Narcissistic Traits 32:01 Building a Healthy Ego 32:39 Passion vs. Obligation in Work 34:02 Personal Growth and Change 36:20 The Fear of the Unknown 38:37 The Illusion of Control 39:19 Coping with Discomfort and Growth 40:12 Therapy and Emotional Support 49:13 The Power of Pausing and Acceptance 54:13 Mackey's Wellness Journey 56:46 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Tony sits down with his friend and Love, ADHD co-host, Julie De Jesus, to unpack her recent interview with Kevin Franke, ex-husband of Ruby Franke. Ruby, the former “8 Passengers” YouTuber, pled guilty in late 2023 to multiple counts of aggravated child abuse and, along with her business partner Jodi Hildebrandt, was sentenced in February 2024 to up to 30 years in prison under Utah law. While Tony originally planned to ask Julie about Kevin, the conversation took a different turn: the tidal wave of comments Julie received after posting her interview. With humor, honesty, and therapeutic insight, Tony and Julie read through some of those YouTube comments out loud, responding in real time. They explore why people are so quick to judge, why emotions often masquerade as facts, and how online criticism reveals more about the commenter than the person being critiqued. You’ll hear candid reflections on: What Kevin’s story stirs up in people (and why) How emotional immaturity shows up in the comment section (projection, black-and-white thinking, and mistaking feelings for truth) Why leaving abusive situations is never as simple as outsiders believe The concept of “whole object relations” — holding multiple emotions at once How Julie navigated negativity while staying grounded and authentic This episode is part deep dive into psychology, part raw behind-the-scenes of content creation, and part hilarious reading of unfiltered internet comments. If you’ve ever wondered why strangers online lash out—or how to handle criticism with both compassion and boundaries—this one’s for you. 00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview 00:33 Julie De Jesus and Her Interview with Kevin Frankie 01:11 Handling Criticism and Emotional Reactions 02:40 Understanding Emotional Maturity 03:55 Navigating Online Criticism 07:40 Promoting the Upcoming Cruise 11:51 The Future of Love A DHD Podcast 12:24 Deep Dive into Kevin Frankie's Interview 21:04 Personal Reflections and Recognitions 31:30 Introduction to Kate's Family Dynamics 31:32 Exploring Religious Roles and Power Dynamics 32:23 Personal Reflections and Family Dynamics 35:00 Commentary on Interview Techniques 36:26 Debating Faith and Atheism 38:40 Addressing Online Criticism 42:20 Therapy and Personal Growth 53:05 Inner Child and Emotional Healing 01:00:02 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections Contact Tony at [email protected] to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

Have you ever tried to change someone’s mind—and watched them dig in even deeper? Or wondered why, even when you want to change your own beliefs, it feels like pushing against an invisible force? In this episode, Tony Overbay, LMFT, takes you on a journey that starts with a teenage quest for the perfect tan and ends with a powerful realization about how we construct our social realities. After sharing a personal story about undergoing a dramatic topical chemotherapy treatment for actinic keratosis, Tony reflects on how his temporarily altered appearance changed the way people interacted with him—and how it altered the way he saw himself. This experience sets the stage for a breakdown of the groundbreaking Dartmouth scar study, which revealed that the belief that you’re being judged can actually create that experience—regardless of reality. From there, Tony dives into the science of confirmation bias: how our brains are wired to seek out information that supports what we already believe, and how this cognitive shortcut influences everything from politics and religion to parenting and marriage. You’ll hear real-life examples, client stories (with details changed for confidentiality), and powerful metaphors that unpack why belief change is so hard—and why it’s also essential for personal growth, emotional maturity, and deeper human connection. 00:00 The Quest for the Perfect Tan 00:35 A Dermatologist's Warning 01:33 The Chemotherapy Cream Experience 02:27 Social Reactions to Visible Differences 05:20 The Dartmouth Scar Study 06:24 The Power of Perception 15:25 Confirmation Bias in Action 32:47 Interpreting Neutral Events 33:04 Religion and Coincidences 33:34 Selective Memory in Parenting and Beyond 34:58 Confirmation Bias in Action 36:23 Client Story: Recognizing Bias 40:32 Vaccine Hesitancy and Confirmation Bias 44:58 The Scar Study and Confirmation Bias 54:56 Evolutionary Roots of Belief Protection 57:33 Modern Challenges and Professional Competence 01:01:49 Conclusion and Listener Engagement Contact Tony at [email protected] to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

What do a therapist dad, his adult daughter, and a live stream full of honest questions have in common? A raw, insightful, and often hilarious live Q&A. In this special live episode, therapist Tony Overbay, LMFT, is joined by his daughter Sydney for a candid conversation that covers everything from emotional immaturity and ADHD to family dynamics, addiction, and navigating a faith crisis. With their signature mix of warmth, wit, and psychological depth, Tony and Sydney explore how perception truly shapes reality (via the Dartmouth scar study), what it means to heal your inner child, and why we so often double down on what’s familiar—even when it no longer serves us. You’ll hear real-time questions and breakthroughs from listeners on topics like trauma, medication, parenting, and personal growth. Sydney shares her lived experience leaving a high-demand religion, and Tony offers grounded, compassionate insights on how we all carry parts of ourselves—from inner kids to "addicts"—that are doing their best to help us survive. Whether you're working through your own stuff or just love real talk about what it means to grow up (emotionally and otherwise), this episode has something for you. 00:00 Introduction and Casual Banter 00:27 Addressing Viewer Messages and Introductions 00:47 Losing and Finding the Phone 02:04 Mental Health Questions and Therapy Advice 07:08 Perception and Reality 16:48 Faith, Beliefs, and Community 27:51 Parent-Child Dynamics and Emotional Health 37:23 Personifying Addiction: Meet Andy 38:04 The Power of Self-Identification 38:51 Medication and Personal Progress 41:16 Emotional Immaturity and Childhood Adaptations 47:57 Navigating Family Dynamics and Acceptance 01:09:08 The Importance of Genuine Curiosity

What if an entire generation is emotionally stuck in childhood—and doesn't even know it? In this compelling guest appearance on The Steph and Craig Show, Tony dives deep into what he calls "the emotional immaturity epidemic" that's quietly sabotaging relationships everywhere. Discover the hidden patterns that keep adults reacting like children: black-and-white thinking that destroys nuance, magical thinking that avoids reality, and the exhausting habit of managing everyone else's emotions instead of allowing people to have their own experiences. Through real-life examples and practical insights, you'll learn to recognize these childhood survival strategies that have become adult relationship roadblocks. Whether you're the people-pleaser who can't say no, the perfectionist who fears vulnerability, or the controller trying to manage everyone's feelings, this conversation offers eye-opening insights into how these patterns formed—and more importantly, how to outgrow them. What you'll discover: • Why emotional reasoning ("I feel it, so it must be true") sabotages relationships • How childhood adaptations become adult limitations • Practical tools for recognizing your own emotional immaturity patterns • Actionable strategies for developing genuine emotional maturity Ready to stop reacting from your inner child and start responding from your wise adult self? This episode will show you exactly where to begin. Find The Steph and Craig Show at stephandcraig.co 00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview 00:34 Guest Introduction: Steph and Craig 02:22 Emotional Immaturity Epidemic 04:18 Therapy Insights and Personal Anecdotes 05:24 Interview Begins: Revisiting Past Conversations 06:52 Emotional Weight in Relationships 09:55 Understanding Emotional Immaturity 13:02 Inner Child and Emotional Development 27:35 Black and White Thinking in Relationships 30:55 Reflecting on Past Behaviors 31:53 The Power of Language in Relationships 33:07 Understanding Black or White Thinking 34:45 Magical Thinking and Emotional Maturity 43:12 Emotional Reasoning in Adults 58:46 Navigating Faith and Personal Validation 01:00:13 The Impact of External Validation on Self-Identity 01:00:42 The Role of Accountability and Magical Thinking 01:01:16 Spiritual Perspectives on Differentiation 01:02:37 Emotional Boundaries and Responsibility 01:04:35 Navigating Emotional Charges in Relationships 01:06:48 The Journey of Emotional Maturity 01:11:30 Mind Reading and Assumptions in Relationships 01:16:10 The Continuous Learning Process 01:23:31 The Importance of Emotional Maturity 01:26:05 Final Thoughts and Call to Action Contact Tony at [email protected] to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

Are you truly being curious—or just trying to win the argument? Tony explores the difference between genuine curiosity and performative questions, sharing real-life examples and tools to help you respond with emotional maturity, not reactivity. Learn how curiosity can transform your relationships. 00:00 Introduction and Host Background 01:42 Understanding Performative vs. Genuine Curiosity 02:04 A Personal Story About Curiosity 08:50 The Importance of Genuine Curiosity in Relationships 19:10 Self-Regulation and Emotional Maturity 24:18 Promoting Genuine Curiosity in Parenting 26:17 The Role of Humility in Curiosity 29:41 Healthy Ego vs. Defensive Narcissism 35:03 The Neuroscience of Decision Making and Emotions 37:06 The Power of Slowing Down 37:36 Understanding Emotions: Primary, Secondary, and Instrumental 41:02 Exploring Anger in Relationships 42:48 Trusting Your Gut and Emotional Reasoning 45:41 Addressing Men's Emotional Immaturity 48:55 Real-Life Examples of Genuine Curiosity 53:42 Parenting with Curiosity 55:09 Curiosity in Marriage and Workplace 59:47 Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Tools 01:02:15 Four Pillars of a Connected Conversation 01:05:20 Final Thoughts and Takeaways Contact Tony at [email protected] to learn more about his Emotional Architects men's group. And visit https://julie-dejesus.com/cruise to learn more about Tony and his friend Julie De Jesus's "I See You Living" cruise, a 5-night Western Caribbean Cruise from January 24-29, 2026 aboard the Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

Marla Christensen, AMFT, APCC, and Tony Overbay, LMFT, delve into Ethan Kross's "Shift: Managing Your Emotions So They Don't Manage You" for another installment of the "Virtual Couch Book Club." They explore emotional awareness, sensory shifts, and cultural influences on emotional well-being. Practical techniques, such as distant self-talk and the Whoop framework (Wish, Outcome, Obstacle, Plan), are covered, offering listeners actionable strategies for emotional management. Tony opens the episode by explaining how common parental phrases, such as "it's not a big deal" or "just don't worry about it," can unintentionally hinder emotional expression in adulthood, setting the stage for struggles with managing emotions later in life. This discussion offers valuable insights for individuals seeking to understand better and manage their emotions. 00:00 A Touching Parenting Moment 02:22 Introduction to the Virtual Couch 02:31 Book Club: Managing Emotions 03:16 The Importance of Emotional Awareness 03:37 Understanding Emotional Language 04:44 The Disconnect from Emotions 06:01 Introducing Dr. Ethan Cross's 'Shift' 06:23 Meet Marla Christiansen 07:33 Exploring Emotional Concepts from 'Shift' 07:46 The Complexity of Emotions 08:05 Practical Tools for Emotional Management 08:20 The Power of Distanced Self-Talk 08:37 External Influences on Emotions 09:02 Body Awareness and Emotions 09:12 Navigating Difficult Emotions 09:24 Impact of Social Media and Cultural Factors 09:37 Appreciating Emotions as Information 10:18 Book Club Discussion: 'Shift' by Dr. Ethan Cross 10:30 Starting the Interview with Marla Christensen 11:24 Diving into Emotional Regulation 11:43 Book Club Insights and Personal Reflections 22:58 The Law of Least Work 25:01 Exploring Low-Cost Emotional Shifts 25:40 Understanding Attention and Perspective 26:10 Navigating Emotional Avoidance and Approach 27:27 The Power of Reframing 29:29 Distanced Self-Talk: A Unique Approach 31:07 Shifting Emotions Through Environment 33:44 The Role of Relationships in Emotional Shifts 37:24 Cultural Influences on Emotions 39:37 The Impact of Comparison 42:37 Practical Tools for Emotional Mastery 44:06 Final Thoughts and Resources

What if the very strategies that saved you as a child are now sabotaging your adult relationships? In Part 2 of Tony's series on emotional immaturity, discover why your most persistent relationship struggles aren't character flaws—they're outdated survival software still running in the background of your life. Through the powerful ACT metaphor of "The Man in the Hole," you'll understand why working harder with familiar emotional tools only digs you deeper into relationship problems. When someone offers you a ladder out of your patterns, why do you keep trying to dig with it instead? This episode reveals how to recognize when it's time to put down the shovel of old coping strategies and climb toward something completely different. Meet the clients who've made this transformation: the chronic fixer who learned to ask "what do you need from me?" instead of immediately solving, the humor-deflector who shocked a room into silence by sharing something real, and the lifelong people-pleaser whose hands shook as she said "no" for the first time—and discovered her marriage actually got stronger. You'll explore Terry Real's revolutionary insight that childhood adaptations become adult roadblocks, learn the art of re-parenting yourself with compassion instead of criticism, and discover why emotional maturity isn't about never falling into old patterns—it's about recognizing when you're there and having new tools to respond. Whether you struggle with hypervigilance, perfectionism, control issues, or people-pleasing tendencies, this episode offers a shame-free framework for honoring your inner child's brilliant survival strategies while empowering your adult self to take the lead. Because growth isn't about eliminating your protective parts—it's about expanding your repertoire of responses and choosing consciously instead of reacting automatically. Ready to stop digging and start climbing? Your ladder awaits. 00:00 Introduction and Recap 01:23 The Story of Tyler 03:53 Tyler's Realization and Therapy 09:39 Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Metaphor 15:46 Revisiting Emotional Immaturity 19:30 Reparenting Yourself 25:05 Examples of Reparenting in Action 29:00 Exploring Emotional Immaturity Traits 40:54 Recognizing and Validating Emotions 42:47 Dependence on External Validation 48:54 Taking Ownership and Accountability 51:49 Mind Reading and Communication 01:03:55 Hypervigilance and Emotional Containment 01:07:12 Perfectionism and Control 01:11:49 Integration and Emotional Maturity 01:15:57 Real-Life Examples of Emotional Growth 01:22:05 The Journey of Emotional Maturity

Have you ever watched someone you care about repeatedly return to a relationship that's clearly hurting them, despite all logic and reason? Or found yourself unable to break free from a partner who alternates between cruel indifference and intoxicating affection? Tony Overbay, LMFT, comprehensively examines all of the factors at play in hopes of shining a light on understanding and ultimately healing from one of psychology's most misunderstood phenomena: trauma bonding. Tony explains how the same mechanisms that kept B.F. Skinner's rats frantically pressing a lever for unpredictable rewards are at work in toxic relationships. He explains the biological "amygdala hijack" that literally shuts down one's ability to think rationally when anxiety strikes and why well-meaning advice like "just don't worry about it" actually makes things worse through psychological reactance. This comprehensive episode covers: The neurological science behind trauma bonding and why it creates addiction-like withdrawal symptoms How childhood experiences shape our relationship with emotions and set us up for unhealthy patterns Why telling someone "don't think about it" guarantees they'll think about it more The critical difference between guilt ("I did something bad") and shame ("I am bad") Practical ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) techniques like expansion and mindfulness The powerful Buddhist salt and water metaphor for managing emotional pain Why no one—not even identical twins—experiences the world exactly as you do How to break the cycle of seeking external validation that keeps you trapped Whether you're personally experiencing a trauma bond, supporting someone who is, or simply want to understand why people stay in painful relationships, this episode provides compassionate insight and practical tools for healing. Tony's conversational style makes complex psychological concepts accessible while offering hope that with time, understanding, and the right support, you can reclaim your emotional autonomy and build healthier connections. 00:00 Introduction: The Impact of 'Say Anything' 01:21 Setting the Stage: Understanding Relationship Dynamics 01:50 Who This Episode is For 03:10 Introduction to Trauma Bonding 04:03 Welcome to the Virtual Couch 04:35 Engage with Us: Social Media and Upcoming Events 07:04 The Concept of Trauma Bonding 16:51 The Science Behind Trauma Bonding 21:25 Understanding the Amygdala Hijack 21:49 The Impact of Stress Hormones on the Brain 23:03 The Cycle of Trauma Bonding 24:21 The Ineffectiveness of Well-Meaning Advice 24:59 Psychological Reactance and the White Bear Effect 26:24 Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) 28:18 The Concept of Expansion 30:05 Mindfulness and Changing Your Relationship with Thoughts 32:27 Guilt vs. Shame 34:11 Healing from Trauma Bonds 36:45 The Importance of Self-Validation 43:43 Seeking Support and Practicing Mindfulness

Do you avoid difficult conversations, hoping problems will magically disappear? Do you convince yourself you don’t need to write things down, because of course you’ll remember later? Or maybe you catch yourself trying to be everything to everyone… and slowly losing yourself in the process? Join Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Tony Overbay and his daughter Mackie, a licensed esthetician, and cosmetologist, and host of the podcast “The Mind, the Mirror, and Me,” for a lively and insightful live Q&A. Together, they explore the sneaky ways magical thinking and emotional immaturity show up in our lives and relationships. From assuming people should “just know” what we want, to struggling with overthinking and honesty in relationships, this conversation dives deep (with plenty of humor and personal stories along the way). You’ll also hear about: What “pick me” behavior really means and how it impacts relationships How magical thinking keeps us stuck (and how to move forward) Navigating diagnoses like borderline personality disorder and emotional immaturity Why honesty in relationships isn’t as simple as “just say it” Handling complicated family dynamics — including emotionally absent grandparents Tools like mindfulness and ACT-based techniques to help you change your relationship with your thoughts Whether you're a therapist, a parent, or simply curious about emotional growth, this honest and relatable episode will leave you thinking differently about how you show up for yourself and others. 00:00 Introduction and Technical Difficulties 00:19 Foot Talk and Live Stream Banter 01:11 Licensed Therapist Q&A Begins 01:21 Understanding Narcissistic Traits 02:06 Exploring the 'Pick Me' Phenomenon 03:20 Therapy Insights: Finding Your True Self 05:40 Addressing Borderline Personality Disorder 14:05 Magical Thinking and Emotional Immaturity 26:08 Mindfulness and Thought Observation Techniques 27:02 The Concept of Changing Relationship with Thoughts 27:32 Discussion on Honesty in Relationships 31:16 Handling Family Dynamics and Expectations 33:54 Understanding Bipolar Disorder vs. Anger Issues 37:43 The Role of Thoughts, Behaviors, and Feelings 46:03 Freudian Theories and Emotional Maturity 50:39 Final Thoughts and Viewer Questions