Plants of the Gods: S6E10. Perils and Pitfalls of Ayahuasca: An Interview with Robert Tindall

A mind-blowing mint? Salvia divinorum, a perennial herb in the mint family, has been used by traditional healers in Oaxaca, Mexico, to understand more about what ails a patient. Known for its potent psychoactive effects, Salvia can induce dysphoria and dissociation. But new scientific research is shedding light on the plant's unique effect on the brain, and its potential in treating psychiatric disorders. We continue our conversation with Dr. Chris McCurdy, a medicinal chemist and behavioral pharmacologist at the University of Florida, who is one of the foremost experts on this plant of the gods.   Show notes:  Babu, Kavita M, et al. “Opioid Receptors and Legal Highs: Salvia Divinorum and Kratom.” National Center for Biotechnology Information, U.S. National Library of Medicine, Feb. 2008, pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18259963/.    

The tropical Asian tree kratom – a member of the same botanical family that has given us both coffee and quinine – is showing great potential for successfully treating a variety of serious afflictions, from stress to opioid withdrawal. Ironically – depending on dosage – it can act either as a stimulant or a sedative. The episode features an insightful interview with Dr. Christopher McCurdy, the leading authority on this extraordinary plant of the gods.   Show notes:   “About Christopher R McCurdy.” University of Florida College of Pharmacy, pharmacy.ufl.edu/profile/mccurdy-christopher/. Accessed 17 June 2025. Grundmann, Oliver, et al. “Not All Kratom Is Equal: The Important Distinction between Native Leaf and Extract Products - Grundmann - 2024 - Addiction - Wiley Online Library.” Wiley Online Library, 9 Oct. 2023, onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.16366. Smith, Kirsten E., et al. “The Rise of Novel, Semi-Synthetic 7-Hydroxymitragynine Products.” Wiley Online Library, 3 Dec. 2024, onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.16728. Talesnik, Dana. “McCurdy Studies Whether Kratom Can Reduce Opioid Withdrawal, Ease Pain.” National Institutes of Health, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 23 June 2022, nihrecord.nih.gov/2022/06/24/mccurdy-studies-whether-kratom-can-reduce-opioid-withdrawal-ease-pain.

The lure of lost cities is a deep and enduring fascination that combines equal parts mystery, adventure, treasure, and the promise of forgotten knowledge. The existence and discovery of these ruins – whether it was King Tut's tomb or Machu Picchu – demonstrates the brilliance of ancient civilizations and their impermanence and mortality. In this episode, host Mark Plotkin recounts his experience as part of an expedition in search of the so-called "Lost City of the Monkey God," as well as the role that hallucinogens and shamanism played in helping us understand some of the artwork and cultures of these ancient peoples.   Episode Notes Clottes, Jean, and David Lewis-Williams. The Shamans of Prehistory: Trance and Magic in the Painted Caves. Translated by Sophie Hawkes, Harry N. Abrams, 1998.   Plotkin, Mark J. Tales of a Shaman’s Apprentice: An Ethnobotanist Searches for New Medicines in the Amazon Rain Forest. Penguin Books, 1994.   Preston, Douglas. The Lost City of the Monkey God: A True Story. Grand Central Publishing, 2017.   Schultes, Richard Evans, et al. Plants of the Gods: Their Sacred, Healing and Hallucinogenic Powers. Healing Arts Press, 2001.   Vaz, Mark Cotta. Living Dangerously: The Adventures of Merian C. Cooper, Creator of King Kong. Villard, 2005. 

The therapeutic benefits of ayahuasca are well-known and celebrated worldwide. However, when conducted by the wrong individuals, ayahuasca ceremonies can also lead to harmful outcomes. In this episode, host Mark Plotkin talks with author and explorer Robert Tindall about some of the potential risks and downsides of ayahuasca use.

Many people associate cacao (and chocolate) with its origins in Mexico, but few are aware that the plant itself is native to the rainforests of the northwest Amazon. Previous episodes of this season of "Plants of the Gods" traced the journey of cacao from the Amazon to Central America and then to Europe. In this episode, ethnobotanist Mark Plotkin continues to explore the captivating history of this remarkable treat, spanning from the American Revolution through the Industrial Revolution and into the 21st century. 

The concept of uncontacted or isolated indigenous rainforest groups enthralls many people, even those who have no particular interest in rainforest conservation or tribal cultures. Yet there certainly exist dozens of these groups in Amazonia, if not more. How can we estimate what and how much they know about the healing plants of the rainforest if we do not contact them first? This episode attempts to answer this seemingly oxymoronic question. 

The Amazon rainforest - teeming with unstudied plants, fungi, and shamanic cultures - has long been considered an almost inexhaustible source of healing plants and potions.     In this episode - Dr. Mark Plotkin, an ethnobotanist who has been studying the plants and peoples of Amazonia for four decades - provides a detailed and incisive overview of the medicinal power and potential of the world’s greatest rainforest! 

This episode delves deeply into the ethnobotany of these bizarre rainforest plants. From the ethereal ayahuasca to galvanizing guarana, we hear tales of how these species can be used for everything from curing deadly spider bites to measuring climate change.

Ethnobotanist Mark Plotkin conducts a fascinating interview with William Siff, who is a licensed acupuncturist, clinical herbalist, and ethnobotanist who practices an unusual combination of both Ayurvedic and Traditional Chinese Medicine. Bill is best known to the general public as author of the classic work, "The Plant Medicine Protocol." The interview not only covers Siff's intriguing background and healing approach but answers the questions of what is a plant, what is a food, what is a spice, what is a medicine, and which species like black pepper are all of the above!

Join host Dr. Mark Plotkin, ethnobotanist and founder of the Amazon Conservation Team, we continue our discussion about cacao. In this episode, Dr. Plotkin sheds light on the often-overlooked contributions of Maria Sibylla Merian, a pioneering naturalist whose groundbreaking work in the Amazon predated that of many famous explorers. Discover how this remarkable woman, who began as an artist in 17th-century Germany, became one of the first Europeans to scientifically document the plants, animals, and cultures of the Amazon. Dr. Plotkin also shares his favorite episodes from the "Plants of the Gods" podcast, including stories of Ayahuasca, absinthe, and even how apes use plants for medicinal purposes. Tune in to explore the rich tapestry of the Amazon and the extraordinary individuals who have helped us understand its wonders.