Plants of the Gods: S7E4. Dr. Joe Watkins: Indigenous Perspectives on the Psychedelic Renaissance

The Plants of the Gods podcast has pioneered the concept of mind-altering substances not being merely hallucinogens but also "ideogens," substances that generate new ideas and creative concepts. Nowhere was this more evident than among artists and the scientists in 19th-century Europe, from Sigmund Freud to Samuel Taylor Coleridge to William James. This episode details this much-overlooked chapter in modern history and discusses a recent book by cultural historian Mike Jay on this topic.

Ethnobotanist Dr. Mark Plotkin discusses Brugmansia, some of the most beautiful hallucinogenic plants in the botanical world. Their bright flowers hang like sacred trumpets and have long been used by traditional healers of the Andes-Amazon region as an important component of their medicine chest. Closely related to the ‘hexing herbs’ of European witches of the Middle Ages (as detailed in an earlier episode), these fascinating plants can heal - or harm. 

The spice trade was one of the most influential economic and cultural forces that shaped the modern world. It profoundly impacted cultural exchange, cartographic knowledge and technology, cuisine, spycraft, and medicine. The spice trade strengthened mercantile capitalism and spread both Islam and Christianity while destroying indigenous cultures and tropical rainforests. This episode examines the spice trade from an ethnobotanical perspective.   Hobhouse, Henry. Seeds of Wealth: Four Plants That Made Men Rich. 1st Shoemaker & Hoard ed., Shoemaker & Hoard, 2004. Levetin, Estelle, and Karen McMahon. Plants & Society. Ninth edition, McGraw-Hill LLC, 2024. Miller, James Innes. The Spice Trade of the Roman Empire, 29 B.C. to A.D. 641. Clarendon P, 1969. Milton, Giles. Nathaniel’s Nutmeg: How One Man’s Courage Changed the Course of History. Sceptre, 1999. Norman, Jill. The Complete Book of Spices. First American edition., Viking Studio Books, 1991. Rosengarten, Frederic. The Book of Spices. Rev. and Abridged by the author., Pyramid Books, 1973. Schivelbusch, Wolfgang, and Wolfgang Schivelbusch. Tastes of Paradise: A Social History of Spices, Stimulants, and Intoxicants. 1st Vintage Books ed, Vintage Books, 1993. Simpson, Beryl Brintnall, and Molly Conner-Ogorzaly. Economic Botany: Plants in Our World. 3rd ed, McGraw-Hill, 2001. Tannahill, Reay. Food in History. New ed., Three Rivers Press, 1989.

If herbal remedies can help humans, why not our pets? In this fascinating episode of Plants of the Gods, ethnobotanist Dr. Mark Plotkin sits down with veterinarian Dr. Rob Silver, who has spent decades using cannabis, mushrooms, and other botanical medicines to treat animals. From clinical breakthroughs to the surprising science behind plant-based pet care, Dr. Silver shares stories from the front lines of integrative veterinary medicine—and introduces his new book, There’s a Mushroom for That!. Whether you’re a pet lover or a mycology fan, this conversation will change the way you think about both. Show notes:   The K9 Microdose Project landing page for dog owners interested in a study on mushroom supplementation for their pet: K9Microdose.com  There’s A Mushroom For That!: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DJG1M348    Dr. Robert Silver’s apothecary shop for pets: www.wellpetdispensary.com  

“Plants of the Gods” has featured dozens of episodes detailing the power, potential, and pitfalls of using hallucinogenic plants and fungi – and even frogs – for healing purposes. The Psychedelic Renaissance is in full swing — but what does it look like to the indigenous peoples themselves?    Anthropologist Dr. Joe Watkins of the Choctaw Nation offers his thoughtful perspective on these fascinating issues.

A mind-blowing mint? Salvia divinorum, a perennial herb in the mint family, has been used by traditional healers in Oaxaca, Mexico, to understand more about what ails a patient. Known for its potent psychoactive effects, Salvia can induce dysphoria and dissociation. But new scientific research is shedding light on the plant's unique effect on the brain, and its potential in treating psychiatric disorders. We continue our conversation with Dr. Chris McCurdy, a medicinal chemist and behavioral pharmacologist at the University of Florida, who is one of the foremost experts on this plant of the gods.   Show notes:  Babu, Kavita M, et al. “Opioid Receptors and Legal Highs: Salvia Divinorum and Kratom.” National Center for Biotechnology Information, U.S. National Library of Medicine, Feb. 2008, pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18259963/.    

The tropical Asian tree kratom – a member of the same botanical family that has given us both coffee and quinine – is showing great potential for successfully treating a variety of serious afflictions, from stress to opioid withdrawal. Ironically – depending on dosage – it can act either as a stimulant or a sedative. The episode features an insightful interview with Dr. Christopher McCurdy, the leading authority on this extraordinary plant of the gods.   Show notes:   “About Christopher R McCurdy.” University of Florida College of Pharmacy, pharmacy.ufl.edu/profile/mccurdy-christopher/. Accessed 17 June 2025. Grundmann, Oliver, et al. “Not All Kratom Is Equal: The Important Distinction between Native Leaf and Extract Products - Grundmann - 2024 - Addiction - Wiley Online Library.” Wiley Online Library, 9 Oct. 2023, onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.16366. Smith, Kirsten E., et al. “The Rise of Novel, Semi-Synthetic 7-Hydroxymitragynine Products.” Wiley Online Library, 3 Dec. 2024, onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.16728. Talesnik, Dana. “McCurdy Studies Whether Kratom Can Reduce Opioid Withdrawal, Ease Pain.” National Institutes of Health, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 23 June 2022, nihrecord.nih.gov/2022/06/24/mccurdy-studies-whether-kratom-can-reduce-opioid-withdrawal-ease-pain.

The lure of lost cities is a deep and enduring fascination that combines equal parts mystery, adventure, treasure, and the promise of forgotten knowledge. The existence and discovery of these ruins – whether it was King Tut's tomb or Machu Picchu – demonstrates the brilliance of ancient civilizations and their impermanence and mortality. In this episode, host Mark Plotkin recounts his experience as part of an expedition in search of the so-called "Lost City of the Monkey God," as well as the role that hallucinogens and shamanism played in helping us understand some of the artwork and cultures of these ancient peoples.   Episode Notes Clottes, Jean, and David Lewis-Williams. The Shamans of Prehistory: Trance and Magic in the Painted Caves. Translated by Sophie Hawkes, Harry N. Abrams, 1998.   Plotkin, Mark J. Tales of a Shaman’s Apprentice: An Ethnobotanist Searches for New Medicines in the Amazon Rain Forest. Penguin Books, 1994.   Preston, Douglas. The Lost City of the Monkey God: A True Story. Grand Central Publishing, 2017.   Schultes, Richard Evans, et al. Plants of the Gods: Their Sacred, Healing and Hallucinogenic Powers. Healing Arts Press, 2001.   Vaz, Mark Cotta. Living Dangerously: The Adventures of Merian C. Cooper, Creator of King Kong. Villard, 2005. 

The therapeutic benefits of ayahuasca are well-known and celebrated worldwide. However, when conducted by the wrong individuals, ayahuasca ceremonies can also lead to harmful outcomes. In this episode, host Mark Plotkin talks with author and explorer Robert Tindall about some of the potential risks and downsides of ayahuasca use.

Many people associate cacao (and chocolate) with its origins in Mexico, but few are aware that the plant itself is native to the rainforests of the northwest Amazon. Previous episodes of this season of "Plants of the Gods" traced the journey of cacao from the Amazon to Central America and then to Europe. In this episode, ethnobotanist Mark Plotkin continues to explore the captivating history of this remarkable treat, spanning from the American Revolution through the Industrial Revolution and into the 21st century.