456: From Bedroom to Boardroom with Shauna Stewart

Raise prices 30% and most organizations expect to lose 10 to 15% of their customers. Delaware State Parks raised entry fees 30% for the first time in over a decade, and revenue climbed while annual pass sales held flat and non-resident sales grew 5.4%. Alex Hannah, chief marketing, creative and communications officer at Delaware State Parks, joins Adam Stoker to show how a state park system that’s 65% self-funded sold the increase to residents, elected officials and tourism partners through statewide open houses and 1,200 survey responses. With 17 parks, 7.5 million annual visitors and $1.4 billion in 2024 economic impact, it markets like a destination. They also cover why open houses get more honest answers than focus groups and how Delaware’s four DMOs helped turn around flat pass sales. Plus, Adam opens with a monologue on “January gamblers” and how he’d split a 2027 destination marketing budget. Learn more about Delaware State Parks and its 75th anniversary: https://destateparks.comApply for DMO Jam, Adam’s mastermind cohorts for DMO marketers: https://dmojam.thebrandrevolt.com Enjoying the show? Leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠. Chapters:00:00 Monologue: Budget season and the January gambler05:17 Media budgets as reactive testing08:32 Adam’s 2027 budget split09:21 Alex Hannah of Delaware State Parks joins11:39 65% self-funded, 17 parks, 7.5M visitors14:15 All 17 parks in one day15:56 Marketing as a business function18:39 Raising state park entry fees 30%20:52 The results: pass sales flat, non-residents up 5.4%22:31 Announcing DMO Jam (sponsored)25:14 Inside the statewide open houses33:18 Open houses vs. focus groups34:42 Where state parks marketing ends and DMO marketing begins37:19 What DMOs should ask of their state parks39:01 How four DMOs turned around flat pass sales

Camden Bernatz, creative director and lead strategist at Brand Revolt and author of Stop Asking for Pitches: 10 Rules to Fix the Client-Agency Relationship, pitches Adam Stoker a new strategy offer live on the show, and Adam pushes back. Camden argues that most DMO agency relationships are set up for diminishing returns before the RFP is ever written: Frankensteined RFP language borrowed from other destinations, untested assumptions, and agencies hired as extra hands, then blamed for a lack of ideas. Adam plays the skeptical DMO. Who has the bandwidth for an RFP readiness audit, and isn't an agency just stacking the deck to win the bid? They also dig into the cost of staying 18 more months with an agency you've stopped trusting and why uncommunicated expectations sink partnerships. Plus, Adam opens with a monologue on the CMO Jam room where nobody would say they loved their agency of record. Camden's book, Stop Asking for Pitches: 10 Rules to Fix the Client-Agency Relationship, is available on Amazon. Reach Camden at [email protected]. Enjoying the show? Leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It's the single biggest way new DMO marketers find us. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠. Chapters: 00:00 Monologue: The room where no one loved their agency 02:51 Why Brand Revolt moved from tacticians to strategists 06:39 Camden Bernatz joins 09:43 The pitch: agency relationships built for diminishing returns 12:20 Hiring a hammer when you need a screwdriver 15:19 The Frankensteined RFP 16:27 Stop Asking for Pitches and the RFP readiness audit 19:16 Why "better ideas" is the wrong complaint 21:56 Readiness score, quick fix, or big fix 23:21 Announcing DMO Jam (sponsored) 26:06 Pushback: "I don't have the bandwidth" 28:31 "Aren't you just stacking the deck?" 31:51 The real cost of staying in a bad agency relationship 36:02 RFPs and the dating analogy 37:44 Finding DMOs at the right point in the RFP cycle 42:51 Adam's verdict

Shauna Stewart, CEO of Experience Olympia & Beyond, the Olympia-Lacey-Tumwater Visitor & Convention Bureau in Washington, joins Adam Stoker for a leadership conversation unlike any on the show yet. Shauna led the bureau from 2015 to 2020, stepped away after a nine-month illness, built a career as an intimacy coach, and returned as interim CEO in December 2025. She explains why she traded work-life balance for coherence. She also talks about how the consent skills she teaches, like forming clean agreements, and why DMOs should stop "dealing with stakeholders" and sit shoulder to shoulder instead. Plus, Adam opens with a monologue on why DMOs need to build a culture of failure. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠. 00:00 Monologue: Build a culture of failure 07:37 Meet Shauna Stewart of Experience Olympia & Beyond 09:13 From CEO to illness to intimacy coach and back 11:32 Bedroom to boardroom: the leadership through line 15:53 Pleasure as the antidote to DMO pain 17:53 The speaker she brings to every board meeting 21:06 Clean agreements and "If you can't convince them, confuse them" 24:55 Why "dealing with stakeholders" is the wrong language 25:16 Mid-roll: Introducing DMO Jam 28:07 Stakeholders as co-conspirators 32:33 Lead with curiosity and unpolluted power 35:33 Hiring for delight 37:16 Coherence over work-life balance 42:04 Measuring outcomes, not hours 44:36 Where to find Shauna and Life Turned On

Recorded live in July, CMO Jam 2026 put six destination marketing leaders at one virtual table with Adam Stoker: Joshua Albrecht of Visit Milwaukee, Allison Brown of Discover Long Island, Karina Anthony of Visit Atlantic City, Megan Buchbinder of Wilmington and Beaches, Christian Mengel of the St. Joseph CVB, and Kelli Steele of Putnam County Tourism. Part 1 of 4 is about AI inside the DMO. Josh explains how one intern and ChatGPT rewrote 1,000-plus partner listings, Megan's team built its own expense tool in Claude Code, and Allison shows how monthly STR reports exposed the ADR problem hiding behind high occupancy. The panel splits on guardrails, from IT walls to protecting critical thinking, then takes the hot seat on how AI changes hiring. Josh closes with Ask Leroy, the LeRoy Butler avatar visitors treat as a novelty. Watch episodes early! Setup an Account on Toursim IQ where we will be giving pre-release access each week for a new episode. https://mytourismiq.com/ Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Adam Stoker opens with the conveyor belt of audience and visitation: the generation that grew up loving your destination is aging off it, and their kids are bored. Adam Stoker opens with the conveyor belt of audience and visitation: the generation that grew up loving your destination is aging off the end, and marketing can't refill the front. Then Michelle Guevara, Director of Destination Experience at Visit Greenville, South Carolina, shows what fixing the product actually takes. Her in-house survey of Greenville hotels came back 65% understaffed, so she built a hospitality career pathway with the Greenville Chamber and Greenville County Schools — this after a student interest survey ranked business and administration at 12% and hospitality and tourism at 1%. Michelle also covers the downtown conference center first studied in 2015 and redesigned for 2026, the Certified Tourism Ambassador program that reached 900 people in under three years, and the five-course dinner with technical college students that ended in three job offers. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Shannon Carter, Executive Director of the Wayne County Tourism Bureau in Ohio, joins Adam Stoker to walk through a funding fight she may not win. Her operating contract with the county expired in 1991 and was never renewed — thirty years of handshake agreements that three new commissioners are now unwinding, with the bed tax likely headed to the chamber, Main Street, or the fairgrounds and the bureau possibly sundowning at year's end. Shannon names what she'd do differently: benchmark trend lines against neighboring counties instead of reporting year-over-year numbers, and prove what a DMO does that no one else can. She also covers rebuilding Wayne County's website with a one-man shop in four weeks, and why agritourism across 2,000 family farms became the story she owns. Plus, Adam opens with a monologue on the destination website and the illusion of relevance. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Adam Stoker opens with the numbers that should worry every destination: US fertility hit a record low under 1.6 in 2025, net immigration fell from 2.2 million to 410,000, and the places people most want to visit are the ones your staff can least afford to live in. Sixty-five percent of hotels already report staffing shortages. His argument is that the visitor you market to today is the workforce you recruit from tomorrow. Then Cristal Rodriguez, Director of Marketing at Tempe Tourism, picks it up from a city that has to plan for it — through a rebrand built on six to eight months of listening, a boutique agency that had never touched a DMO, Prop 302 funding that runs out in five years, and the new Arizona TIA that Tempe is letting Visit Phoenix test first. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Travis Scott, CEO of Visit Big Bear, joins Adam Stoker for a conversation about running a rural destination when everything is on the line. Travis tells the story behind Jackie, Big Bear's world-famous bald eagle, and how Visit Big Bear turned a small nonprofit's unwatched nest cam into a global phenomenon while agreeing to take zero branding in return. He explains how he rebuilt trust at Visit Mendocino County by building a coalition instead of a plan, why Big Bear's real problem was never over-tourism but visitor distribution, and what moved him from destination marketing to destination management. With much of the Western U.S. on fire, Travis closes with the crisis playbook he's built across two rural DMOs — starting with the rule that gives this episode its name. Plus, Adam opens with the DMO that was missing from his hometown parade, and the float he'd build instead. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Adam Stoker opens with a hard look at why the industry plays it safe, and how that instinct produced both the sea of sameness and the funding fight that came with it. Then Jason Gamel, President and CEO of ARDA, shows what it costs in practice. The timeshare industry generates $3.3 billion in annual rental revenue, all taxed like any other stay, and the average family of four spends just under $5,000 per trip with lodging already paid for. Most destinations have never built a relationship with the resorts producing it. Jason and Adam get into who to call, how to tap shoulder-season inventory, and the stigma still keeping DMOs from picking up the phone. Jason also shares the risk he's taking right now: an association-owned insurance captive, two and a half years in and still not guaranteed to launch. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Collin Norman sat through 4 interviews, a Zoom panel with more than 20 people, a request for his start date and a tour of the budget — then got rejected by email, with no call and no feedback. Today he's the Executive Director of Visit Clearfield County, Pennsylvania, and he's building a hiring process that looks nothing like it. Collin joins Adam Stoker to break down why DMO hiring is broken, why it's the same disease as the RFP process, and the three steps he'd run instead — plus what job seekers should do to clear the AI screen and still read like a human wrote it. Adam opens with a monologue on Tennessee's "Yeah, It's Real" photo certification program and where AI stops enhancing an image and starts fabricating one. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠.