Destination Marketing Podcast

What does a great agency partnership look like for a DMO in 2026? Agencies still matter to destination marketing organizations, but how DMOs work with them is changing. In Part 3 of 4, Adam Stoker asks six DMO marketing leaders what they want from agency partners, from convention and visitors bureaus to tourism boards. Three of them no longer have an agency of record, and all of them still want agency partners. The panel: Joshua Albrecht of Visit Milwaukee, Allison Brown of Discover Long Island, Karina Anthony of Visit Atlantic City, Megan Buchbinder of Wilmington and Beaches, Christian Mengel of the St. Joseph CVB, and Kelli Steele of Putnam County Tourism. Allison now hires agencies project by project and is replacing the three-bid RFP with a capabilities deck. Megan dropped her agency of record to stay nimble on a roughly $5 million marketing budget. Karina uses different agencies for different campaigns to keep the work distinct. Christian wants agencies to pitch ideas they’ve never tried with another client. Joshua says the best agencies are partners, not “marketing dictators.” Kelli paid a local agency for a one-hour brainstorm within a fixed budget. Adam explains how agency business models are changing as media commissions shrink, and why a true partner means paying for brains, not hands. In the hot seat, each panelist names the biggest threat to their DMO budget over the next 12 months: single-source hotel tax funding, a shrinking population in a sales-tax market, bid fees and tourism improvement districts, and a local annexation that put 15 to 20 percent of revenue at risk. What DMO and agency leaders will learn: What DMOs value most in an agency partner Why DMOs are moving from agency of record to project-based agency relationships How to replace a three-bid RFP with a capabilities deck How to pay an agency for a one-hour strategy session on a small budget What DMOs want from agencies: original ideas and strategy, not extra hands Which funding threats DMO marketers see ahead: hotel tax limits, bid fees, tourism improvement districts, population decline, local politics Who should listen: DMO and CVB marketing leaders, tourism board and destination marketing staff, destination marketing agency executives, and anyone planning an RFP or agency review. Watch episodes early! Set up an account on Tourism IQ, where we give pre-release access each week for a new episode. https://mytourismiq.com/ Enjoying the show? Leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.  Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠. Chapters:00:00 Why three DMOs moved beyond the agency of record01:09 Allison: why the agency of record didn’t fit02:16 Project-by-project agencies and a lighter RFP04:38 Karina and Christian: agencies and the sea of sameness07:09 Would you take an unsolicited agency pitch?08:56 Megan: why she dropped her agency of record11:21 Joshua: the best agencies are partners, not dictators15:50 Brains, not hands16:07 Kelli pays for a one-hour agency brainstorm18:30 Why agencies sell so hard right now21:29 Paying a premium for a true partner24:50 Christian: agencies that adapt to DMO needs26:47 Joshua: a disrupted industry and new players at the table28:53 Hot seat: the biggest threat to your DMO budget29:27 Karina and Allison: alternative funding sources32:47 Christian: a shrinking population and sales tax35:41 Joshua: bid fees, tourism improvement districts, global competition40:41 Kelli: local politics and the annexation scare42:23 Megan: diversifying a single funding source

What does it take to turn a conversation that started six years ago into an original event that fills hotel rooms and earns hundreds of thousands of views? On this episode of the Destination Marketing Podcast, Adam Stoker talks with Andy Clinton of Visit York County (Rock Hill, South Carolina) and Jeff Goodman of Field of 68 Media Network about how a DMO and a media company built a sports tourism event from scratch, and how they structured the partnership, funded it, and proved its value. Andy and Jeff get into the real mechanics: who owns the event, who pays for production, how a small DMO team of seven manages a high-effort event, and why they scaled in phases instead of all at once. They also explain how the event doubles as a media buy, with broadcast visibility, commercials, and signage that put the destination in front of an engaged audience, and how they measure it through hotel room nights and earned media value. What DMO and agency leaders will learn: - How to turn a long-term relationship into a funded, DMO-backed event - How to measure event ROI two ways: hotel room nights and earned media value (the first year's three games drew 700,000+ views, per a Sports ETA earned media report) - How to structure a DMO and media company partnership: ownership, production costs, hotels, and logistics - Why phased growth (three games, then six) protects your staff, budget, and partner relationships - How to treat event content as a media buy that earns real attention, not passing impressions - Why a small DMO team should lean on outside partners for strategy and new ideas while keeping execution manageable - How to build community buy-in by involving a local university and inviting city and county council members to see the impact firsthand - How to plan future growth, including a youth component aimed at doubling room nights Also in this episode, Adam announces DMO Jam, a new application-only mastermind for destination marketing professionals, with monthly cohorts of 10, quarterly all-cohort sessions, an annual in-person retreat, and twice-yearly one-on-ones with Adam. Apply at dmojam.thebrandrevolt.com. Who should listen: DMO and CVB marketing leaders, destination marketing agency executives, tourism marketers, sports commission and sales professionals, and anyone working on event development, sports tourism, economic impact measurement, destination media strategy, or DMO partnerships. Guests: Andy Clinton, Visit York County: LinkedIn (Andy Clinton) Jeff Goodman, Field of 68 Media Network: @GoodmanHoops on X Enjoying the show? Leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.  Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠. Chapters: 00:00 Welcome and Adam's Destination Discourse agency recap 00:49 Why 80% of DMOs have an agency of record but no one defends theirs 06:57 Shared objectives, the crisis of relevance, and paying for strategy 08:52 Guest reactions: why DMOs should rely on agency brains, not hands 14:23 How Visit York County and Field of 68 started the partnership 16:20 Building a media company and an event from zero 17:53 Scaling from three games to six: phased growth 19:54 From idea to execution: funding, production, and staffing 24:59 Measuring ROI: hotel room nights and earned media value 28:29 Broadcast visibility vs. paid media, plus the DMO Jam announcement 32:01 Promoting the event and the sales challenge 34:15 Partnership structure: ownership, costs, and responsibilities 36:54 The team behind it: sales, hotels, venues, and the local university 38:38 Future vision: new formats to extend stays and visibility 43:31 Adding a youth component and doubling room nights 46:36 Final takeaways for DMOs 49:59 How to connect with Andy and Jeff

Website traffic is down year over year at almost every destination Adam Stoker talks to, yet most DMOs still use clicks to prove their value to stakeholders. Six DMO marketing leaders show what they’re building instead. Christian Mengel of the St. Joseph CVB argues the goal is significance, not relevance, and Kelli Steele of Putnam County Tourism calls website metrics a vanity metric. Allison Brown of Discover Long Island runs quarterly immersions across 126 towns and gives every chamber a free partnership, and Karina Anthony of Visit Atlantic City gives community development groups free space on its site. Joshua Albrecht of Visit Milwaukee makes the case for cathedral thinking: tourism is the outcome, culture is the strategy. Megan Buchbinder of Wilmington and Beaches weighs a 10-year master plan against a three-year one, and Adam argues residents deserve the same campaign DMOs build for visitors. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Raise prices 30% and most organizations expect to lose 10 to 15% of their customers. Delaware State Parks raised entry fees 30% for the first time in over a decade, and revenue climbed while annual pass sales held flat and non-resident sales grew 5.4%. Alex Hannah, chief marketing, creative and communications officer at Delaware State Parks, joins Adam Stoker to show how a state park system that’s 65% self-funded sold the increase to residents, elected officials and tourism partners through statewide open houses and 1,200 survey responses. With 17 parks, 7.5 million annual visitors and $1.4 billion in 2024 economic impact, it markets like a destination. They also cover why open houses get more honest answers than focus groups and how Delaware’s four DMOs helped turn around flat pass sales. Plus, Adam opens with a monologue on “January gamblers” and how he’d split a 2027 destination marketing budget. Learn more about Delaware State Parks and its 75th anniversary: https://destateparks.comApply for DMO Jam, Adam’s mastermind cohorts for DMO marketers: https://dmojam.thebrandrevolt.com Enjoying the show? Leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠. Chapters:00:00 Monologue: Budget season and the January gambler05:17 Media budgets as reactive testing08:32 Adam’s 2027 budget split09:21 Alex Hannah of Delaware State Parks joins11:39 65% self-funded, 17 parks, 7.5M visitors14:15 All 17 parks in one day15:56 Marketing as a business function18:39 Raising state park entry fees 30%20:52 The results: pass sales flat, non-residents up 5.4%22:31 Announcing DMO Jam (sponsored)25:14 Inside the statewide open houses33:18 Open houses vs. focus groups34:42 Where state parks marketing ends and DMO marketing begins37:19 What DMOs should ask of their state parks39:01 How four DMOs turned around flat pass sales

Camden Bernatz, creative director and lead strategist at Brand Revolt and author of Stop Asking for Pitches: 10 Rules to Fix the Client-Agency Relationship, pitches Adam Stoker a new strategy offer live on the show, and Adam pushes back. Camden argues that most DMO agency relationships are set up for diminishing returns before the RFP is ever written: Frankensteined RFP language borrowed from other destinations, untested assumptions, and agencies hired as extra hands, then blamed for a lack of ideas. Adam plays the skeptical DMO. Who has the bandwidth for an RFP readiness audit, and isn't an agency just stacking the deck to win the bid? They also dig into the cost of staying 18 more months with an agency you've stopped trusting and why uncommunicated expectations sink partnerships. Plus, Adam opens with a monologue on the CMO Jam room where nobody would say they loved their agency of record. Camden's book, Stop Asking for Pitches: 10 Rules to Fix the Client-Agency Relationship, is available on Amazon. Reach Camden at [email protected]. Enjoying the show? Leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It's the single biggest way new DMO marketers find us. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠. Chapters: 00:00 Monologue: The room where no one loved their agency 02:51 Why Brand Revolt moved from tacticians to strategists 06:39 Camden Bernatz joins 09:43 The pitch: agency relationships built for diminishing returns 12:20 Hiring a hammer when you need a screwdriver 15:19 The Frankensteined RFP 16:27 Stop Asking for Pitches and the RFP readiness audit 19:16 Why "better ideas" is the wrong complaint 21:56 Readiness score, quick fix, or big fix 23:21 Announcing DMO Jam (sponsored) 26:06 Pushback: "I don't have the bandwidth" 28:31 "Aren't you just stacking the deck?" 31:51 The real cost of staying in a bad agency relationship 36:02 RFPs and the dating analogy 37:44 Finding DMOs at the right point in the RFP cycle 42:51 Adam's verdict

Shauna Stewart, CEO of Experience Olympia & Beyond, the Olympia-Lacey-Tumwater Visitor & Convention Bureau in Washington, joins Adam Stoker for a leadership conversation unlike any on the show yet. Shauna led the bureau from 2015 to 2020, stepped away after a nine-month illness, built a career as an intimacy coach, and returned as interim CEO in December 2025. She explains why she traded work-life balance for coherence. She also talks about how the consent skills she teaches, like forming clean agreements, and why DMOs should stop "dealing with stakeholders" and sit shoulder to shoulder instead. Plus, Adam opens with a monologue on why DMOs need to build a culture of failure. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠. 00:00 Monologue: Build a culture of failure 07:37 Meet Shauna Stewart of Experience Olympia & Beyond 09:13 From CEO to illness to intimacy coach and back 11:32 Bedroom to boardroom: the leadership through line 15:53 Pleasure as the antidote to DMO pain 17:53 The speaker she brings to every board meeting 21:06 Clean agreements and "If you can't convince them, confuse them" 24:55 Why "dealing with stakeholders" is the wrong language 25:16 Mid-roll: Introducing DMO Jam 28:07 Stakeholders as co-conspirators 32:33 Lead with curiosity and unpolluted power 35:33 Hiring for delight 37:16 Coherence over work-life balance 42:04 Measuring outcomes, not hours 44:36 Where to find Shauna and Life Turned On

Recorded live in July, CMO Jam 2026 put six destination marketing leaders at one virtual table with Adam Stoker: Joshua Albrecht of Visit Milwaukee, Allison Brown of Discover Long Island, Karina Anthony of Visit Atlantic City, Megan Buchbinder of Wilmington and Beaches, Christian Mengel of the St. Joseph CVB, and Kelli Steele of Putnam County Tourism. Part 1 of 4 is about AI inside the DMO. Josh explains how one intern and ChatGPT rewrote 1,000-plus partner listings, Megan's team built its own expense tool in Claude Code, and Allison shows how monthly STR reports exposed the ADR problem hiding behind high occupancy. The panel splits on guardrails, from IT walls to protecting critical thinking, then takes the hot seat on how AI changes hiring. Josh closes with Ask Leroy, the LeRoy Butler avatar visitors treat as a novelty. Watch episodes early! Setup an Account on Tourism IQ where we will be giving pre-release access each week for a new episode. https://mytourismiq.com/ Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Adam Stoker opens with the conveyor belt of audience and visitation: the generation that grew up loving your destination is aging off it, and their kids are bored. Adam Stoker opens with the conveyor belt of audience and visitation: the generation that grew up loving your destination is aging off the end, and marketing can't refill the front. Then Michelle Guevara, Director of Destination Experience at Visit Greenville, South Carolina, shows what fixing the product actually takes. Her in-house survey of Greenville hotels came back 65% understaffed, so she built a hospitality career pathway with the Greenville Chamber and Greenville County Schools — this after a student interest survey ranked business and administration at 12% and hospitality and tourism at 1%. Michelle also covers the downtown conference center first studied in 2015 and redesigned for 2026, the Certified Tourism Ambassador program that reached 900 people in under three years, and the five-course dinner with technical college students that ended in three job offers. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Shannon Carter, Executive Director of the Wayne County Tourism Bureau in Ohio, joins Adam Stoker to walk through a funding fight she may not win. Her operating contract with the county expired in 1991 and was never renewed — thirty years of handshake agreements that three new commissioners are now unwinding, with the bed tax likely headed to the chamber, Main Street, or the fairgrounds and the bureau possibly sundowning at year's end. Shannon names what she'd do differently: benchmark trend lines against neighboring counties instead of reporting year-over-year numbers, and prove what a DMO does that no one else can. She also covers rebuilding Wayne County's website with a one-man shop in four weeks, and why agritourism across 2,000 family farms became the story she owns. Plus, Adam opens with a monologue on the destination website and the illusion of relevance. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Adam Stoker opens with the numbers that should worry every destination: US fertility hit a record low under 1.6 in 2025, net immigration fell from 2.2 million to 410,000, and the places people most want to visit are the ones your staff can least afford to live in. Sixty-five percent of hotels already report staffing shortages. His argument is that the visitor you market to today is the workforce you recruit from tomorrow. Then Cristal Rodriguez, Director of Marketing at Tempe Tourism, picks it up from a city that has to plan for it — through a rebrand built on six to eight months of listening, a boutique agency that had never touched a DMO, Prop 302 funding that runs out in five years, and the new Arizona TIA that Tempe is letting Visit Phoenix test first. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt’s services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠.