Episode 351 with Daniel Dockery, the Thoughtful, Deep-Researching, Author of I AM THE NIGHT: The Ultimate Unauthorized History of Batman: The Animated Series

Notes and Links to Daniel Dockery’s Work        Daniel Dockery began writing online and in print in 2011. Since then, he's been a Senior Writer and Assistant Editor at Crunchyroll, as well as a Columnist and Assistant Editor at Cracked.com. He's also written for WIRED, Vulture, Polygon, SYFY, Paste Magazine, Roger Ebert, Thrillist, and various other outlets. His first book, Monster Kids: How Pokémon Taught a Generation to Catch Them All, was released by Running Press on October 4, 2022. His upcoming book, I AM THE NIGHT: The Ultimate Unauthorized History of Batman: The Animated Series, will be published by St. Martin's Press on September 1, 2026. When not writing, Daniel can be found reading, weightlifting, and spending time with his lovely wife, adorable son, and absolutely wild Australian Cattle Dog Elmer.       Buy I am the Night: The Ultimate Unauthorized Biography of Batman: The Animated Series   Daniel Dockery's Website   Review of I am the Night... from Atomic Geekdom     At about 3:00, Daniel shouts out places to buy his book, including through great writer and mentor Matthew Seitz Zoller At about 4:10, Daniel responds to Pete’s question about the meaning and possibilities with an “unauthorized history”  At about 5:30, Daniel paints a picture of his early knowledge and watching Batman: The Animated Series and other movies and pop culture in his childhood At about 8:50, Daniel talks about his unique experience watching Batman: The Animated Series  At about 9:50, Daniel describes his early reading and writing lives At about 12:20, Daniel highlights Patrick Radden Keefe and David Grann and other writers who thrill and inspire him At about 14:30, Daniel responds to Pete’s questions about feedback he’s received on his book At about 17:45, Daniel traces seeds for his book At about 20:00, The two discuss the praise heaped upon Batman: The Animated Series and the ways that the series went against type in the early 1990’s regarding cartoons At about 24:30, Daniel shares an anecdote that illustrates the depth of his Batman fandom At about 26:30, Daniel provides background on the many iterations of Batman and the show’s ethos of “not talking down to children” with the Animated Series At about 30:00, Daniel maps Warner Brothers’ Batman vision  At about 33:15, Daniel responds to Pete’s asking about Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill and the ways in which they came to Batman: The Animated Series and what made them so successful as marquee voice actors At about 36:30, Daniel responds to Pete asking about the way that he viewed and continues to view animated shows and about his rewatch(es) for BTAS for research purposes At about 38:40, Daniel lists and describes his favorite two episodes of the series At about 40:40, Daniel responds to Pete’s questions about “canon[ical]” characters and their treatment, and the ways in which the BTAS writers handled Batman’s violent tendencies  At about 44:20, Pete asks Daniel about Batman the character as allegory/symbolic At about 46:50, Alan Burnett’s rules and touches and his importance to the success of the series are discussed  At about 49:15, Daniel riffs on the disparate writers who “put their stamp” on BTAS At about 51:25, Daniel riffs on an “introduction” to Batman through The Mask of the Phantasm and the greatness of the comic, “The Killing Joke” At about 52:25, Daniel talks about the costs of making BTAS    You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the second episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The episode focuses on the opening track, “People of the Sun.” The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 352 with Sarah Blakley-Catwright, the author of Alice Sadie Celine (Simon Books, Simon & Schuster, November 28th, 2023). She is also the author of Red Riding Hood (Little, Brown Books for Young Readers), a New York Times #1 bestseller that was published worldwide in thirty-eight editions and fifteen languages. Her newest book is Heavy Cream.    The episode airs on September 29, Pub Day for Heavy Cream.     Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.  

Notes and Links to Benjamin Moser’s Work      Benjamin Moser is the author of Why This World: A Biography of Clarice Lispector, a finalist for the National Book Critics’ Circle Award and a New York Times Notable Book of 2009. For his work bringing Clarice Lispector to international prominence, he received Brazil’s first State Prize for Cultural Diplomacy. He won a Guggenheim Fellowship in 2017, and Sontag: Her Life and Work won the Pulitzer Prize in 2020. The Upside-Down World: Meetings with the Dutch Masters appeared in 2023. He completed Anti-Zionism: A Jewish History at the Dorothy and Lewis B. Cullman Center for Scholars and Writers at the New York Public Library.    Buy Anti-Zionism: A Jewish History   Benjamin Moser’s Website   Book Tour Events   Review of Anti-Zionism from Forward Magazine   At about 1:45, Ben talks about what he expects with the September 22 Pub Day At about 2:40, Ben expands on ideas of repentance and the Jewish Yom Kippur, as well as political and personal complicity in the ongoing genocide in Gaza At about 4:20, Ben expands on his understanding of the acronym “P.E.P” and people being againstt genocide, as evidenced by the bravura shown by the people profiled in Anti-Zionism: A Jewish History  At about 5:00, Ben talks about his early reading and writing and what put him in his path to being a writer, including Clarice Lispector and V.S. Naipul At about 7:00, Ben reflects on lessons learned from researching for biographies and expands on the “craziness” of Zionism titan Theodor Herzl At about 8:30-Saudade unmasked! At about 10:00, Ben shouts out places to buy the book and talks about upcoming tour events and about his hopes for the book At about 11:30, Pete cites the book’s Acknowledgements and Ben explores a “joke” from his friend over the split among Jews and others regarding Zionism while also examining people’s courage and reticence to speak against genocide  At about 13:25, Ben talks about the “original cancel culture” At about 14:25, The two reflect on The Onion and social media as news dispenser  At about 15:30, Ben talks about what “it cost them” in discussing the heroes of the book At about 16:40, Ben responds to Pete’s question about seeds for the book, and Ben describes the indescribable: the “highly fraught” atmosphere in Palestine, and its racist daily life At about 19:10, Ben emphasizes the relatively-young Birthright program and the effects of Israeli propaganda and the world seeing the genocide on phones At about 20:40, Ben responds to Pete’s questions about the significance of verses from the Hebrew Bible At about 22:20, The two discuss an important book and Ben discusses the book’s gravitas  At about 24:00, Ben talks about how “weird” Der Judenstatt is At about 24:45, Pete and Ben talk about Herzl as the “L. Ron Hubbard of the Jews” and wonder how Herzl’s work and persona were/and so impactful At about 26:15, Ben expands on connections between Zionism and Herzl and an “Ibsen plot” At about 28:15, The two reflect on an incredibly anecdote recounted by Herzl himself that sets off alarm bells for a friend of his, and for Ben as well At about 30:10, The two discuss Herzl as a self-styled prophet At about 33:25, Ben reflects on modern and historical connections between Zionism and Anti-Semitism At about 36:40, Pete cites “The Sensitive Rabbi” as an example of putting religious faith into good works, and Ben expands on Judaism as a "pacifistic religion” At about 41:00, Ben discusses the retroactive “claim[ing]” of the Holocaust in Zionism, and the process of “unlearning” narratives At about 44:25, Pete asks Ben about one of the appeals of Zionism, as Ben explains the desire to be tough and strong in response to oppression  At about 46:20, The two discuss the enduring and uncomplicated meaning of “Never Again” At about 47:25, The two discuss those who are fighting back against the genocide and apartheid in Palestine         You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the second episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The episode focuses on the opening track, “People of the Sun.” The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 351 with Daniel Dockery, who has been a Senior Writer and Assistant Editor at Crunchyroll, as well as a Columnist and Assistant Editor at Cracked.com. He's also written for WIRED, Vulture, Polygon, SYFY, Paste Magazine, Roger Ebert, Thrillist, and various other outlets. His first book, Monster Kids: How Pokémon Taught a Generation to Catch Them All, was released by Running Press on October 4, 2022. His upcoming book, I AM THE NIGHT: The Ultimate Unauthorized History of Batman: The Animated Series, is out with St. Martin's Press as of September 1, 2026.      The episode airs on September 22.     Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to Ankur Thakkar’s Work     Ankur Thakkar is the author of Blow Yourself Up, which was longlisted for The Center for Fiction First Novel Prize. His stories have appeared in Guernica, [PANK], and TriQuarterly. He was a 2025 Sewanee Writers’ Conference Scholar and his artwork has been exhibited at the Palais de Tokyo and La Friche la Belle de Mai.    Buy Blow Yourself Up   Ankur Thakkar’s Website   At about 1:30, Ankur talks about his mindset as Blow Yourself Up comes out and lays out tour events At about 3:00, Ankur talks about his early reading and writing life, and homes in on how formative the Mahabharata has been for him At about 6:55, Ankur talks about how Asian Studies courses and his own reading and life experience inform his views of the multiple stories and layers of Hinduism At about 8:00, Ankur cites Continental Philosophy class led him to Tolstoy, Sartre, Bret Easton Ellis, and the power of reading those with “names like [his]”-Rushdie, Jhumpa Lahiri, among others At about 10:15, The two reflect on the culture panache of American Psycho At about 11:45, Ankur talks about connections to Indian/South Asian cultures through “impactful” exposure in college At about 13:00, Ankur shouts out writers who thrill and inspire him, including Hari Kunzu, Mosin Mohammed, and Maryam Rahmani At about 14:15, Ankur describes his epigraph and its significance, especially connections to the talented and creative Heems of Das Racist At about 15:55, Pete asks Ankur about starting the book with in medias res and his omniscient narrator At about 18:30, Ankur talks about playing with time and “loops” and connects his time working with Vine to these concepts  At about 20:40, Pete talks about an iconic (at least to him) Vine involving Michael Jordan At about 22:20, Ankur responds to Pete’s asking about Arjun’s musical intelligence and natural abilities  At about 25:20, Pete lays out some of the book’s exposition  At about 26:45, Ankur talks about the ways in which Payal and her family react to the patriarch's death, and how the most vulnerable often are ripe for political malleability  At about 28:35, The two discuss  At about 29:30, Pete compliments the ways in which Ankur paints the relationship between Arjun and Payal’s ailing father At about 31:00, Ankur outlines the ways in which he is “loose” with his chronology in the book and his mindset in writing thusly At about 32:55, Ankur riffs on the “transcendan[ce]” of music and live concerts and recounts memories of his first concerts  At about 35:00, The two discuss the death of the family patriarch, and Ankur shares wise thoughts on the aftereffects of the death of a loved one At about 36:25, Ankur describes the secrets in the relationship between Arjun and Payal and different levels of familial communication, especially among Indian-American families At about 38:10, Ankur talks about the “Whispercore” movement and its connection to the book’s music scene At about 39:30, The two discuss the travails of the Payal and Arjun relationships, and Pete asks Ankur about the traumas endured by Payal and how it might affect her resignation towards the world At about 43:00, Ankur points out some foreshadowing with the bandmate of Arjun At about 44:25, Ankur responds to Pete’s question about Payal mimicking/mocking Bollywood and some South Asian literature through Boosts At about 45:20, Ankur responds to Pete’s question about “standing in judgment” of his characters  At about 47:20, Ankur cites the example of Naomi Klein’s Doppelganger and how it plays out in pop culture and politics with turnabouts in goals and mindsets for creators and politicians  At about 50:10, The two discuss commercialism and art through his turning music and colonialism on its face At about 50:45, Diya is shouted out by Ankur and cited as a favorite character for him At about 51:40, Pete outlines an important scene involving an artistic event  At about 54:00, Ankur reflects on Payal’s ease and unease in becoming a popular influencer  At about 56:35, Ankur discusses a “lack of cultural baggage” that might come with a burgeoning relationship and responds to Pete asking about the ways the fortunes of the couple are connected         You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the second episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The episode focuses on the opening track, “People of the Sun.” The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 350 with Daniel Dockery, who has been a Senior Writer and Assistant Editor at Crunchyroll, as well as a Columnist and Assistant Editor at Cracked.com. He's also written for WIRED, Vulture, Polygon, SYFY, Paste Magazine, Roger Ebert, Thrillist, and various other outlets. His first book, Monster Kids: How Pokémon Taught a Generation to Catch Them All, was released by Running Press on October 4, 2022. His latest book, I AM THE NIGHT: The Ultimate Unauthorized History of Batman: The Animated Series, is out with St. Martin's Press as of September 1, 2026.      The episode airs on September 22.     Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to Danny Funt’s Work     Danny Funt is a Charlotte-based writer and editor. His reporting on the business of sports betting, politics, news and sports media, climate solutions, and healthcare innovation has appeared in The Washington Post, The New Yorker, The New Republic, The Wall Street Journal, TheWeek.com, and the Columbia Journalism Review, and he has discussed the consequences of the betting boom on CNN, NBC, CBS, NPR, and many other outlets.    He’s written profiles of Defector Media, football gambler Warren Sharp, Esquire editor David Granger, author Alana Massey, New York Times columnist David Brooks, Las Vegas bookie Chris Andrews, and the MIT personalized medicine researcher Leo Celi.   Buy Everybody Loses: The Tumultuous Rise of American Sports Gambling   Danny Funt’s Website   Review of Everybody Loses… from Library Journal     At about 1:00, Danny talks about edifying feedback on his book Everybody Loses… At about 1:55, Danny talks about early reading and writing At about 2:55, Pete and Danny share their fantasy sports origin stories At about 3:45, Danny talks about early inspiration for his journalism career At about 6:15, Danny talks about boxing books that has thrilled and informed him At about 8:00, Danny reflects on ideas of objectivity in journalism, and how he approached the writing of the book with its particular subject matter  At about 9:50, Danny responds to Pete asking about the ways in which his betting habits (or lack thereof) changed after writing the book  At about 11:15, Pete and Danny commiserate on “the bet that got away” and the anger/sleaziness that comes with close loss in betting At about 16:45, Pete shares gushing blurbs for the book At about 17:15, Pete lays out the book’s opening that features athletes talking about online harassment from jilted gamblers At about 18:00, Danny reflects on new, popular, frenzied areas of gambling that are also being resisted and rolled back in some places in the US At about 19:25, Danny talks a bit of the history of early US sports and gambling At about 21:40, Danny responds to Pete’s question about early fantasy sports as a kind of “gray area” and connections to today’s sports gambling landscape At about 25:05, Adam Silver as an early proponent of “regulated sports betting” is discussed  At about 28:20, Danny outlines the importance of Murphy v. NCAA in later sports gambling developments At about 30:45, Pete asks Danny about political and religious divisions (or the lack thereof) regarding sports betting At about 33:50, Pete and Danny recount a few anecdotes from the book about gambling addictions  At about 34:45, Chris Christie’s and others’ empty words on allocating money to help for gambling addiction At about 36:05, The pivotal wording used in many sports betting ads-like “risk-free”-are discussed  At about 38:55, Jason shares a staggering statistic from Bank of América about the reduced saving At about 39:20, Pete cites the title of the penultimate chapter and the book’s title and asks Danny about the lack of “winners” in (almost) all areas of sports gambling At about 40:50, Sharapova v. Serena, 2004 Wimbledon, is discussed At about 43:50, “Microbets” and “parlays” and their possible outlawing are discussed At about 44:40, Pete asks Danny about the UK’s history and present of sports gambling and its possibly being a predictor of the US’ sports betting future  At about 46:50, The two discuss some proposed laws and pushing back against out-of-control sports betting At about 49:00, Pete cites an aspirational scenario that might prevent future unmitigated sports gambling      You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the second episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The episode focuses on the opening track, “People of the Sun.” The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 349 with Jason Thornberry, whose writing appears in World Literature Today, Los Angeles Review of Books, Maryland Literary Review, Maudlin House, and many others. He was nominated in 2023 and 2024 for Best of the Net. Jason’s chapbook, The Finish Line, is available now through Sand and Gravel Press.     The episode airs on September 11 or 12.    Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to Julian Randall’s Work     Julian Randall is a Living Queer Black author from Chicago. He has received fellowships from Cave Canem, CantoMundo, Callaloo, and the Watering Hole. Julian is the recipient of a Pushcart Prize and the winner of the 2019 Betty Berzon Emerging Writer Award from the Publishing Triangle.   His writing has been published in New York Times Magazine, Ploughshares, and POETRY, and anthologized in Black Boy Joy (which debuted at #1 on the NYT Best Seller list), Wild Tongues Can’t Be Tamed, and Furious Flower. Julian has essays in Vibe Magazine, Los Angeles Review of Books, and other venues. They hold an MFA in poetry from University of Mississippi.    Julian is the author of five books across three genres. For adults: Refuse (Pitt, 2018), winner of the 2017 Cave Canem Poetry Prize and a finalist for a 2019 NAACP Image Award and The Dead Don’t Need Reminding: In Search of Fugitives, Mississippi and Black TV Nerd Shit (Bold Type Books, 2024) winner of the Mississippi Institute of Arts and Letters award in Life Writing. For middle grade novel readers, he has written the Pilar Ramirez duology, The Chainbreakers and Shook, a middle grade novel in verse, which was published on August 9th, 2026.    Buy Shook   Julian Randall’s Website   Review of Shook at BookPage   Support Flourish Community Hub on the Ground in Gary, Indiana     At about 1:45, Julian lays out the sobering situation in Gary, Indiana-support here At about 3:20, Julian talks about feedback he has received on Shook and tour events At about 4:30, Julian talks about favorite bookstores at which to buy his book, including Call and Response At about 5:30, Julian details his reading journey, especially his father’s influence on his reading and his language and literature background  At about 7:00, Julian talks about, among others, Artemis Fowl, Langston Hughes, and Van Helsing-influences on his sensibility At about 9:50, Julian riffs on Shawn of the Dead and his reference in the book At about 11:50, Julian responds to Pete’s question about his contemporaries and literary influences, including Jason Reynolds and Leah Johnson At about 14:55, Jason expands on the greatness of Leah Johnson At about 16:50, Pete asks Julian about how he “inhabits” his younger characters so well, and Julian adds information about how his writing has been informed by his own experiences  At about 21:20, Julian responds to Pete’s question about his basketball player profile  At about 22:20, Julian reflects on the avoidance of moralizing in his writing, and he expands on his admiration for Suzanne Collins, especially her Gregor the Overlander series At about 30:15, Julian talks about seeds for Shook and connections to the pandemic  At about 33:45, Julian responds to Pete;’s asking about the book’s sequencing and use of unique “chapters” At about 37:00, Julian connects his writing style in Shook, featuring “beats,” to DVD “scene selection” At about 38:00, Pete lays out some of the book’s exposition  At about 39:00, Julian characterizes and compliments his main character, Malik “Shake” Page At about 40:15, Julian talks Malik, backstory, and “My Story” on NBA 2K At about 42:40, Julian talks about a question for his characters, “What is magic for you?” and connections between the calming factor of basketball and anxiety  At about 44:30, Russell Westbrook Love At about 45:40, The two discuss the protagonist’s group chat, and the genesis of the book’s title and the titular character  At about 47:45, Julian compares the group chat to a “Greek chorus” At about 48:55, The two discuss the book’s semifinal game and the importance of trash talking  At about 53:00, Discussion of a damaging injury to Shake leads to discussion of “Up North,” Chicago redlining history, and economic and racial segregation  At about 55:55, At about 57:00, Dr. Betts and real-life inspirations are discussed-Dr. Tara Betts  At about 59:35, Shake and his “widening gulf” with friends discussed At about 1:00:15, Julian talks about a prominent character, Duke, real-life connections, and how he is a quiet “hero” in the book, instructive for Shake  At about 1:04:00, Pete recounts a crushing comparison made by Kaveh Akbar that speaks to the idea of everyone’s expansive stories  At about 1:05:20, Dr. Jason Clopton and his fictional doppelganger, Dr. Kendrick J. Drake are lovingly referenced  At about 1:06:40, Julian talks about the “manifestation of the classic middle-school” fear and “anxiety representation” and therapy discussions in his book At about 1:09:50, Pete cites some profound and moving quotes in the book      You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the second episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The episode focuses on the opening track, “People of the Sun.” The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 348 with Daniel Dockery, who has been a Senior Writer and Assistant Editor at Crunchyroll, as well as a Columnist and Assistant Editor at Cracked.com. He's also written for WIRED, Vulture, Polygon, SYFY, Paste Magazine, Roger Ebert, Thrillist, and various other outlets. His first book, Monster Kids: How Pokémon Taught a Generation to Catch Them All, was released by Running Press on October 4, 2022. His upcoming book, I AM THE NIGHT: The Ultimate Unauthorized History of Batman: The Animated Series, is out with St. Martin's Press as of September 1, 2026.      The episode airs on September 8.     Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.  

Notes and Links to Julie Buntin’s Work     Julie Buntin’s new novel, Famous Men, is out as of July 14. Her debut, Marlena, was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle’s John Leonard Prize and longlisted for the Center for Fiction’s First Novel Prize. It was a Barnes & Noble Discover Great New Writers Pick and was released in ten territories worldwide and named a best book of the year by over a dozen outlets, including The Washington Post, NPR, and Kirkus Reviews. In September, Norton will publish her collaborative nonfiction project, Notes to New Mothers, co-edited with Rebecca Dinerstein Knight.    Previously, Buntin was an editor and director of writing programs at Catapult. She has taught creative writing at NYU, Columbia University, Marymount Manhattan College, the Yale Writers’ Workshop, Lighthouse Writers Workshop’s Lit Fest, and elsewhere. Now, she writes and teaches in Ann Arbor, where she is an assistant professor at the University of Michigan.   Buy Famous Men   Julie Buntin's Website   Elle Magazine: “An Exclusive First Look at Julie Buntin’s Famous Men, One of the Most Anticipated Novels of 2026"   New York Times Review of Famous Men       At about 3:00, Julie shares feedback she has received about Famous Men  At about 4:20, Julie gives publishing and purchasing information for her novel At about 5:30, Julie highlights book tour events At about 6:10, Julie talks about her upbringing in Michigan At about 7:40, Julie traces her childhood connections to reading and literary culture At about 10:40, Julie shouts out Mr. Young, her “formative” 10th grade English teacher and talks about her early reading and burgeoning literary interests  At about 12:20, Pete fanboys over Tobias Wolff in asking Julie’s thoughts on the “public intellectual” and connections to her novel, Famous Men At about 15:40, Julie highlights Lorrie Moore, Toni Morrison, Elizabeth Bishop, Elena Ferrante, and Stephen King, among others, as formational for her own writing  At about 19:10, Julie compliments current writers whose work she enjoys, including Raven Leilani, Emma Cline, and Claire Messoud At about 20:40, Julie responds to Pete’s question about the texts that resonate with her students, including Tinkers by Paul Harding At about 23:25, Pete unloads his traumatic writing workshop experience, and Julie gives background on the evolution of the writing workshop  At about 27:30, Pete shares the novel’s epigraphs and asks Julie about seeds for the book At about 32:30, The two discuss the book’s opening and reflect on where to open a/the book At about 34:00, The two discuss an inciting incident and flashforward and the main male character’s writing and many relationships with women At about 35:00, The two discuss sexism experienced by Will as a girl  At about 36:05, Julie reflects on the “secret summers” Will had as a teenager At about 38:55, The two discuss the “shame” Will feels and the connection to her writing and need to express herself At about 41:20, The two discuss the power of truth (or the lack of power), especially for young women, as seen in the way that young Will is often disbelieved   At about 42:25, Pete highlights a winning craft point, and Julie highlights how Nathaniel would have started the book-she muses on how to write this part  At about 43:30, The two discuss a huge breach of trust in Will’s household, as Julie muses on Will’s mindset before and after the gross behavior from a family member  At about 46:40, Pete and Julie discuss Will’s leaving to New York City and her first experience with a reading and meeting Nathaniel  At about 50:05, Julie responds to Pete’s questions about her treatment of a “ghost character”  At about 52:40, Pete highlights a “fraught” scene  At about 53:40, The two discuss the writing slump of Nathaniel and connections to impotence in the book and in the writing world and who gets to carry one’s legacy despite a dr At about 55:00, Julie discusses Nathaniel as a composite character  At about 56:00, Julie talks about an important photo and how it affects the relationship between Will and Nathaniel At about 58:30, Julie expands on the idea of Nathaniel’s fame, as seen by his inner world and the outer world At about 1:01:40, Famous men and “missing” fathers are discussed, as well   At about 1:02:45, Julie reflects on the heart condition that Will has and somatic/anxiety links At about 1:03:50, Julie responds to Pete’s musings about Will being stunted or fed in her growth as a writer and person through being with Nathaniel At about 1:08:30, Julie ponders Pete’s question regarding what to do with the creation of flawed creators        You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the trailer episode for my limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. I reflect on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.     This is a passion project of Pete’s, a DIY operation, and he’d love for your help in promoting what he’s convinced is a unique and spirited look at an often-ignored art form.     The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode is “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 347 with a guest to be announced.    Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to Devin O’Shea’s Work       Devin Thomas O’Shea is the author of The Veiled Prophet: Secret Societies, White Supremacy, and the Struggle for St. Louis, publishing with Haymarket Books on June 23, 2026. His writing is in The Nation, the Iowa Review, Slate, LA Review of Books, Boulevard, and elsewhere.    Buy The Veiled Prophet   Devin Thomas O'Shea's Website   Review and Informative Article for The Veiled Society in St. Louis Magazine     At about 1:45, Devin details book tour information and ordering information for his book, The Veiled Prophet At about 2:50, Devin talks about the truth and fiction that goes with the book At about 3:30, Devin describes his work with QAnon-related podcasts and reporting At about 5:10, Jim Caviezel (!!!) Talk At about 6:15, Devin and Pete reflect on the state of QAnon in 2026 and the American public’s viewpoint  At about 13:30, Pete makes connections between the Veiled Prophets and history “rhyming” At about 18:20, The two discuss famous people from St. Louis and the McCloskey’s   At about 21:40, Devin responds to Pete’s asking about seeds for the book At about 24:10, The two discuss the high-level capitalists, policymakers, and "landed gentry”-Devin discusses the key years of the 1870s and beginnings of the Veiled Prophet Society At about 27:15,  At about 29:45, Pete notes the Orientalism associated with the symbology of the Veiled Prophet, and Devin expands on the early Prophet At about 32:10, The two reflect on class solidarity and racism and the “aggrieved white male” in early and modern times, with connections to the Veiled Prophet Society  At about 35:00, Devin details Alonzo Slayback, a founder of the Society, and early philosophy and symbology and capitalistic views At about 36:55, Devin responds to Pete’s musings about American political parties and past and present ideas of progressivism  At about 38:10, Devin traces some early leadership in the Society and the ways in which “Mardi Gras-centric” clubs evolved/devolved   At about 41:35, Devin expands upon the idea put forth in the book, adapted from Edward Said, of Orientalism as “projected feelings into an Aladdin…framework” At about 42:55, Devin talks about Alonzo Slayback’s killing At about 45:45, The two reflect on the importance of the 1904 World Fair in Saint Louis, and the fact that 11/12 board members were part of the Veiled Prophet Society At about 49:30, Mary Smith and her controversy regarding her marriage is discussed At about 51:00, Patriarchy and connections to the Society are discussed At about 52:00, The commodification of the history of the Society and Societal connections to the Manhattan Project At about 54:30, Devin responds to Pete asking about Clark Clifford and Harry Truman and connections to local and federal governments At about 56:50, Devin reflects on the life and legacy of Thomas Dooley At about 58:50, Monsanto and other St. Louis connections and Black communities’ protests, including ACTION, are discussed At about 1:02:40, The famed 1972 unmasking of the Veiled Prophet is discussed At about 1:04:00, Devin talks about going to the VP Fair as a kid At about 1:04:40, The two discuss the book’s ending and St. Louis “potential”      You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the trailer episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 346 with Julie Buntin, whose debut, Marlena, was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle’s John Leonard Prize and longlisted for the Center for Fiction’s First Novel Prize. The novel was released in ten territories worldwide and named a best book of the year by over a dozen outlets, including The Washington Post, NPR, and Kirkus Reviews.     The episode airs on July 14, Pub Day for her novel, Famous Men. This book is so, so good.     Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

In this trailer episode, Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.   Individual episodes can be bought for $3, and the whole series for $20.   BUY THE EPISODE HERE, VIA PATREON

Notes and Links to Rachel León’s Work     Rachel León (she/they) is a writer, editor, and social worker, who has worked in child welfare for nearly two decades. She serves as Managing Director for Chicago Review of Books. Their debut novel, How We See the Gray, is out from Curbstone Books as of May 15, 2026. Buy How We See the Gray   Rachel León Website     At about 1:45, Rachel gives a summary of How We See the Gray and information about book events and purchasing At about 4:15, Rachel talks about her writing and reading background, as well as how visual art figured in to her early publications  At about 6:30, Rachel highlights Gwendolyn Brooks’ work as formative and transformative for her At about 7:50, Rachel cites Sarah Lippman and Justin Torres as contemporary writers who inspire her, including Torres’ approach and “We” usage At about 10:10, Rachel responds to Pete asking about her reading life as an editor At about 16:10, Pete asks Rachel about seeds for How We See the Gray and the myriad ways in which her work in child welfare has informed her writing of the book At about 20:55, Rachel homes in on the time in the field that led her to write How We See the Gray and her current work At about 22:00, Rachel talks about her love for the band La Historia, and getting permission to use the band’s lyrics in the book At about 24:00, Pete riffs on the book’s collective voice and asks Rachel to talk about the usage of “We” in the book At about 26:30, Rachel responds to Pete’s questions about case workers and their motivations, as well as ideas of “vocations” and working “in the trenches” At about 29:55, Pete lays out some of the book’s exposition, and asks Rachel about ideas of Meredith, a main character, being too trusting/savior-ish in her work At about 33:25, The two discuss Meredith and her coparenting  At about 34:50, Rachel talks about the youth of her characters and their relationship with idealism  At about 36:50, Rachel expands on the ways in which main character Ebony has learned to “not let her guard down” At about 38:20, Rachel reflects on race and privilege and patronizing attitudes in the foster system, both outside the book and inside At about 42:30, Rachel talks about “mapping out” storylines and “microstories” and chronologies for her book At about 43:50, The two discuss double-standards regarding lack of responsibility for  At about 44:55, Rachel expands on Rockford, Illinois, and her rationale in including slightly-adapted headlines from the local papers At about 47:15, Pete talks about foster parents in the book bucks expectations  At about 48:00, Rachel responds to Pete asking about the “trauma-bonding” among coworkers and the benefits and disadvantages  At about 52:00, Jamal and his versatile work is discussed At about 53:10, Meredith’s drinking and the root causes are discussed  At about 56:00, “Found families” through the foster system are discussed At about 56:50, Pete cites some of the book’s vast profundity  At about 58:00, Rachel talks about the treatment of LGBTQ+ young people in the system At about 1:01:23-AXE Body Spray profundity! At about 1:02, Medreith and being part of the system as a mother are discussed, and Pete asks Rachel about her views on the state of the “system”        You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode deals with short, powerful poems and prose that pack a punch-take that, alliteration! The episode features meaningful and resonant work from Robert Hershon, Mosab Abu Toha, Ernest Hemingway, Sara Abou Rashed, Khaled Juma, Andrea Cohen, and Marwan Makhoul.    Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 345 with Devin Thomas O'Shea is the author of The Veiled Prophet, publishing with Haymarket Books in June 2026. His writing appears in The Nation, The Iowa Review, Slate, Jacobin, Boulevard, and elsewhere.    The episode airs on June 23, Pub Day for The Veiled Prophet.    Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to Steven Thrasher’s Work      Dr. Steven Thrasher is an American journalist and academic. In 2019, he became the inaugural Daniel H. Renberg Chair of social justice in reporting and an assistant professor of journalism at Northwestern University's Medill School of Journalism. In 2012, he won the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association Journalist of the Year award.   Buy The Overseer Class: A Manifesto   Stephen Thrasher's Website   Review of The Overseer Class from Publisher’s Weekly   At about 1:15, Steven talks about book events and the book’s May 19 publication At about 2:40, Steven shares interesting and “clarifying” feedback from readers on The Overseer Class At about 4:00, Steven details his childhood reading and writing and creative pursuits At about 7:40, Steven and Pete discuss the horrible news about the attacks on book choice, a high number of higher education institutions and their “capitulation,” but also the wonderful ways in which Oxnard, CA, and other “low ed” institutions have helped foster community and safety At about 11:45, Steven responds to Pete’s asking about the three quotes that start the book by sharing his gratitude to the three writers/estates who allowed him to use the words; he talks about the quotes setting up “tension” in his book At about 18:00, The two discuss the way the book starts and reflect on dynamics of the repression of Gaza as both singular and as representative of all “imperial force,” such as Tyre Nichols’ killing in early 2023 At about 22:00, the two discuss Martin Luther King and Malcolm X’s legacies and the stories told about them, and their work to make connections with international struggles  At about 24:35, Steven expands on cases in which Black men have been killed by the police, and the changing dynamics and populations around US police forces At about 26:00, Steven notes the “rehabilition” of the Black cop in media in recent years, and the ways in which Black chiefs  At about 27:10, Pete references a possible thesis for Steven’s book and asks Steven to talk about distinguishing (or not) between the overseer class and individuals outside the system At about 30:40, Steven recounts the history of Denmark Vecsey in furthering his point of the overseer class and its role At about 33:10, Steven discusses his short-lived plans to become a police officer and its connection to employment  At about 34:30, Steven cites Black in Blue as a pivotal book in his research At about 36:00, Steven reflects on needs for jobs and connections to jobs that people may be ideologically opposed to police work or similar work At about 37:00, Steven responds to Pete asking about the idea of “changing the institution (policing) from within” At about 40:00, Steven talks about power dynamics, levels of power, and historical links to the “overseer” trope At about 42:40, Steven breaks down terms coined to show the engineering of Black cops and female cops as tools of “freedom” At about 44:20, The two discuss the overseer trope in the military, including “feel good stories” involving Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell At about 46:45, Pete and Steven reflect on the power of a “No” for those resisting overseer status At about 48:10, Steven gives background on being in solidarity with his students and how he has stood up for his ideals; he also talks about the wonderful work by protestors on various college campuses  At about 51:45, Steven reflects on his unforgettable five days on campus at Northwestern and evolving campus protests  At about 56:10, Steven talks about the importance of “being a Toni”        You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode deals with short, powerful poems and prose that pack a punch-take that, alliteration! The episode features meaningful and resonant work from Robert Hershon, Mosab Abu Toha, Ernest Hemingway, Sara Abou Rashed, Khaled Juma, Andrea Cohen, and Marwan Makhoul.    Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 344 with Rachel León, a writer, editor, and social worker, who has worked in child welfare for nearly two decades. She serves as Managing Director for Chicago Review of Books.     The episode airs on May 15, Pub Day for How We See the Gray, their first novel.    Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.