Episode 348 with Danny Funt, Author of the Deeply-Researched, Deeply-Upsetting and Informative Everybody Loses: The Tumultuous Rise of American Sports Gambling

Notes and Links to Danny Funt’s Work     Danny Funt is a Charlotte-based writer and editor. His reporting on the business of sports betting, politics, news and sports media, climate solutions, and healthcare innovation has appeared in The Washington Post, The New Yorker, The New Republic, The Wall Street Journal, TheWeek.com, and the Columbia Journalism Review, and he has discussed the consequences of the betting boom on CNN, NBC, CBS, NPR, and many other outlets.    He’s written profiles of Defector Media, football gambler Warren Sharp, Esquire editor David Granger, author Alana Massey, New York Times columnist David Brooks, Las Vegas bookie Chris Andrews, and the MIT personalized medicine researcher Leo Celi.   Buy Everybody Loses: The Tumultuous Rise of American Sports Gambling   Danny Funt’s Website   Review of Everybody Loses… from Library Journal     At about 1:00, Danny talks about edifying feedback on his book Everybody Loses… At about 1:55, Danny talks about early reading and writing At about 2:55, Pete and Danny share their fantasy sports origin stories At about 3:45, Danny talks about early inspiration for his journalism career At about 6:15, Danny talks about boxing books that has thrilled and informed him At about 8:00, Danny reflects on ideas of objectivity in journalism, and how he approached the writing of the book with its particular subject matter  At about 9:50, Danny responds to Pete asking about the ways in which his betting habits (or lack thereof) changed after writing the book  At about 11:15, Pete and Danny commiserate on “the bet that got away” and the anger/sleaziness that comes with close loss in betting At about 16:45, Pete shares gushing blurbs for the book At about 17:15, Pete lays out the book’s opening that features athletes talking about online harassment from jilted gamblers At about 18:00, Danny reflects on new, popular, frenzied areas of gambling that are also being resisted and rolled back in some places in the US At about 19:25, Danny talks a bit of the history of early US sports and gambling At about 21:40, Danny responds to Pete’s question about early fantasy sports as a kind of “gray area” and connections to today’s sports gambling landscape At about 25:05, Adam Silver as an early proponent of “regulated sports betting” is discussed  At about 28:20, Danny outlines the importance of Murphy v. NCAA in later sports gambling developments At about 30:45, Pete asks Danny about political and religious divisions (or the lack thereof) regarding sports betting At about 33:50, Pete and Danny recount a few anecdotes from the book about gambling addictions  At about 34:45, Chris Christie’s and others’ empty words on allocating money to help for gambling addiction At about 36:05, The pivotal wording used in many sports betting ads-like “risk-free”-are discussed  At about 38:55, Jason shares a staggering statistic from Bank of América about the reduced saving At about 39:20, Pete cites the title of the penultimate chapter and the book’s title and asks Danny about the lack of “winners” in (almost) all areas of sports gambling At about 40:50, Sharapova v. Serena, 2004 Wimbledon, is discussed At about 43:50, “Microbets” and “parlays” and their possible outlawing are discussed At about 44:40, Pete asks Danny about the UK’s history and present of sports gambling and its possibly being a predictor of the US’ sports betting future  At about 46:50, The two discuss some proposed laws and pushing back against out-of-control sports betting At about 49:00, Pete cites an aspirational scenario that might prevent future unmitigated sports gambling      You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the second episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The episode focuses on the opening track, “People of the Sun.” The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 349 with Jason Thornberry, whose writing appears in World Literature Today, Los Angeles Review of Books, Maryland Literary Review, Maudlin House, and many others. He was nominated in 2023 and 2024 for Best of the Net. Jason’s chapbook, The Finish Line, is available now through Sand and Gravel Press.     The episode airs on September 11 or 12.    Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to Julian Randall’s Work     Julian Randall is a Living Queer Black author from Chicago. He has received fellowships from Cave Canem, CantoMundo, Callaloo, and the Watering Hole. Julian is the recipient of a Pushcart Prize and the winner of the 2019 Betty Berzon Emerging Writer Award from the Publishing Triangle.   His writing has been published in New York Times Magazine, Ploughshares, and POETRY, and anthologized in Black Boy Joy (which debuted at #1 on the NYT Best Seller list), Wild Tongues Can’t Be Tamed, and Furious Flower. Julian has essays in Vibe Magazine, Los Angeles Review of Books, and other venues. They hold an MFA in poetry from University of Mississippi.    Julian is the author of five books across three genres. For adults: Refuse (Pitt, 2018), winner of the 2017 Cave Canem Poetry Prize and a finalist for a 2019 NAACP Image Award and The Dead Don’t Need Reminding: In Search of Fugitives, Mississippi and Black TV Nerd Shit (Bold Type Books, 2024) winner of the Mississippi Institute of Arts and Letters award in Life Writing. For middle grade novel readers, he has written the Pilar Ramirez duology, The Chainbreakers and Shook, a middle grade novel in verse, which was published on August 9th, 2026.    Buy Shook   Julian Randall’s Website   Review of Shook at BookPage   Support Flourish Community Hub on the Ground in Gary, Indiana     At about 1:45, Julian lays out the sobering situation in Gary, Indiana-support here At about 3:20, Julian talks about feedback he has received on Shook and tour events At about 4:30, Julian talks about favorite bookstores at which to buy his book, including Call and Response At about 5:30, Julian details his reading journey, especially his father’s influence on his reading and his language and literature background  At about 7:00, Julian talks about, among others, Artemis Fowl, Langston Hughes, and Van Helsing-influences on his sensibility At about 9:50, Julian riffs on Shawn of the Dead and his reference in the book At about 11:50, Julian responds to Pete’s question about his contemporaries and literary influences, including Jason Reynolds and Leah Johnson At about 14:55, Jason expands on the greatness of Leah Johnson At about 16:50, Pete asks Julian about how he “inhabits” his younger characters so well, and Julian adds information about how his writing has been informed by his own experiences  At about 21:20, Julian responds to Pete’s question about his basketball player profile  At about 22:20, Julian reflects on the avoidance of moralizing in his writing, and he expands on his admiration for Suzanne Collins, especially her Gregor the Overlander series At about 30:15, Julian talks about seeds for Shook and connections to the pandemic  At about 33:45, Julian responds to Pete;’s asking about the book’s sequencing and use of unique “chapters” At about 37:00, Julian connects his writing style in Shook, featuring “beats,” to DVD “scene selection” At about 38:00, Pete lays out some of the book’s exposition  At about 39:00, Julian characterizes and compliments his main character, Malik “Shake” Page At about 40:15, Julian talks Malik, backstory, and “My Story” on NBA 2K At about 42:40, Julian talks about a question for his characters, “What is magic for you?” and connections between the calming factor of basketball and anxiety  At about 44:30, Russell Westbrook Love At about 45:40, The two discuss the protagonist’s group chat, and the genesis of the book’s title and the titular character  At about 47:45, Julian compares the group chat to a “Greek chorus” At about 48:55, The two discuss the book’s semifinal game and the importance of trash talking  At about 53:00, Discussion of a damaging injury to Shake leads to discussion of “Up North,” Chicago redlining history, and economic and racial segregation  At about 55:55, At about 57:00, Dr. Betts and real-life inspirations are discussed-Dr. Tara Betts  At about 59:35, Shake and his “widening gulf” with friends discussed At about 1:00:15, Julian talks about a prominent character, Duke, real-life connections, and how he is a quiet “hero” in the book, instructive for Shake  At about 1:04:00, Pete recounts a crushing comparison made by Kaveh Akbar that speaks to the idea of everyone’s expansive stories  At about 1:05:20, Dr. Jason Clopton and his fictional doppelganger, Dr. Kendrick J. Drake are lovingly referenced  At about 1:06:40, Julian talks about the “manifestation of the classic middle-school” fear and “anxiety representation” and therapy discussions in his book At about 1:09:50, Pete cites some profound and moving quotes in the book      You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the second episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The episode focuses on the opening track, “People of the Sun.” The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 348 with Daniel Dockery, who has been a Senior Writer and Assistant Editor at Crunchyroll, as well as a Columnist and Assistant Editor at Cracked.com. He's also written for WIRED, Vulture, Polygon, SYFY, Paste Magazine, Roger Ebert, Thrillist, and various other outlets. His first book, Monster Kids: How Pokémon Taught a Generation to Catch Them All, was released by Running Press on October 4, 2022. His upcoming book, I AM THE NIGHT: The Ultimate Unauthorized History of Batman: The Animated Series, is out with St. Martin's Press as of September 1, 2026.      The episode airs on September 8.     Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.  

Notes and Links to Julie Buntin’s Work     Julie Buntin’s new novel, Famous Men, is out as of July 14. Her debut, Marlena, was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle’s John Leonard Prize and longlisted for the Center for Fiction’s First Novel Prize. It was a Barnes & Noble Discover Great New Writers Pick and was released in ten territories worldwide and named a best book of the year by over a dozen outlets, including The Washington Post, NPR, and Kirkus Reviews. In September, Norton will publish her collaborative nonfiction project, Notes to New Mothers, co-edited with Rebecca Dinerstein Knight.    Previously, Buntin was an editor and director of writing programs at Catapult. She has taught creative writing at NYU, Columbia University, Marymount Manhattan College, the Yale Writers’ Workshop, Lighthouse Writers Workshop’s Lit Fest, and elsewhere. Now, she writes and teaches in Ann Arbor, where she is an assistant professor at the University of Michigan.   Buy Famous Men   Julie Buntin's Website   Elle Magazine: “An Exclusive First Look at Julie Buntin’s Famous Men, One of the Most Anticipated Novels of 2026"   New York Times Review of Famous Men       At about 3:00, Julie shares feedback she has received about Famous Men  At about 4:20, Julie gives publishing and purchasing information for her novel At about 5:30, Julie highlights book tour events At about 6:10, Julie talks about her upbringing in Michigan At about 7:40, Julie traces her childhood connections to reading and literary culture At about 10:40, Julie shouts out Mr. Young, her “formative” 10th grade English teacher and talks about her early reading and burgeoning literary interests  At about 12:20, Pete fanboys over Tobias Wolff in asking Julie’s thoughts on the “public intellectual” and connections to her novel, Famous Men At about 15:40, Julie highlights Lorrie Moore, Toni Morrison, Elizabeth Bishop, Elena Ferrante, and Stephen King, among others, as formational for her own writing  At about 19:10, Julie compliments current writers whose work she enjoys, including Raven Leilani, Emma Cline, and Claire Messoud At about 20:40, Julie responds to Pete’s question about the texts that resonate with her students, including Tinkers by Paul Harding At about 23:25, Pete unloads his traumatic writing workshop experience, and Julie gives background on the evolution of the writing workshop  At about 27:30, Pete shares the novel’s epigraphs and asks Julie about seeds for the book At about 32:30, The two discuss the book’s opening and reflect on where to open a/the book At about 34:00, The two discuss an inciting incident and flashforward and the main male character’s writing and many relationships with women At about 35:00, The two discuss sexism experienced by Will as a girl  At about 36:05, Julie reflects on the “secret summers” Will had as a teenager At about 38:55, The two discuss the “shame” Will feels and the connection to her writing and need to express herself At about 41:20, The two discuss the power of truth (or the lack of power), especially for young women, as seen in the way that young Will is often disbelieved   At about 42:25, Pete highlights a winning craft point, and Julie highlights how Nathaniel would have started the book-she muses on how to write this part  At about 43:30, The two discuss a huge breach of trust in Will’s household, as Julie muses on Will’s mindset before and after the gross behavior from a family member  At about 46:40, Pete and Julie discuss Will’s leaving to New York City and her first experience with a reading and meeting Nathaniel  At about 50:05, Julie responds to Pete’s questions about her treatment of a “ghost character”  At about 52:40, Pete highlights a “fraught” scene  At about 53:40, The two discuss the writing slump of Nathaniel and connections to impotence in the book and in the writing world and who gets to carry one’s legacy despite a dr At about 55:00, Julie discusses Nathaniel as a composite character  At about 56:00, Julie talks about an important photo and how it affects the relationship between Will and Nathaniel At about 58:30, Julie expands on the idea of Nathaniel’s fame, as seen by his inner world and the outer world At about 1:01:40, Famous men and “missing” fathers are discussed, as well   At about 1:02:45, Julie reflects on the heart condition that Will has and somatic/anxiety links At about 1:03:50, Julie responds to Pete’s musings about Will being stunted or fed in her growth as a writer and person through being with Nathaniel At about 1:08:30, Julie ponders Pete’s question regarding what to do with the creation of flawed creators        You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the trailer episode for my limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. I reflect on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.     This is a passion project of Pete’s, a DIY operation, and he’d love for your help in promoting what he’s convinced is a unique and spirited look at an often-ignored art form.     The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode is “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 347 with a guest to be announced.    Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to Devin O’Shea’s Work       Devin Thomas O’Shea is the author of The Veiled Prophet: Secret Societies, White Supremacy, and the Struggle for St. Louis, publishing with Haymarket Books on June 23, 2026. His writing is in The Nation, the Iowa Review, Slate, LA Review of Books, Boulevard, and elsewhere.    Buy The Veiled Prophet   Devin Thomas O'Shea's Website   Review and Informative Article for The Veiled Society in St. Louis Magazine     At about 1:45, Devin details book tour information and ordering information for his book, The Veiled Prophet At about 2:50, Devin talks about the truth and fiction that goes with the book At about 3:30, Devin describes his work with QAnon-related podcasts and reporting At about 5:10, Jim Caviezel (!!!) Talk At about 6:15, Devin and Pete reflect on the state of QAnon in 2026 and the American public’s viewpoint  At about 13:30, Pete makes connections between the Veiled Prophets and history “rhyming” At about 18:20, The two discuss famous people from St. Louis and the McCloskey’s   At about 21:40, Devin responds to Pete’s asking about seeds for the book At about 24:10, The two discuss the high-level capitalists, policymakers, and "landed gentry”-Devin discusses the key years of the 1870s and beginnings of the Veiled Prophet Society At about 27:15,  At about 29:45, Pete notes the Orientalism associated with the symbology of the Veiled Prophet, and Devin expands on the early Prophet At about 32:10, The two reflect on class solidarity and racism and the “aggrieved white male” in early and modern times, with connections to the Veiled Prophet Society  At about 35:00, Devin details Alonzo Slayback, a founder of the Society, and early philosophy and symbology and capitalistic views At about 36:55, Devin responds to Pete’s musings about American political parties and past and present ideas of progressivism  At about 38:10, Devin traces some early leadership in the Society and the ways in which “Mardi Gras-centric” clubs evolved/devolved   At about 41:35, Devin expands upon the idea put forth in the book, adapted from Edward Said, of Orientalism as “projected feelings into an Aladdin…framework” At about 42:55, Devin talks about Alonzo Slayback’s killing At about 45:45, The two reflect on the importance of the 1904 World Fair in Saint Louis, and the fact that 11/12 board members were part of the Veiled Prophet Society At about 49:30, Mary Smith and her controversy regarding her marriage is discussed At about 51:00, Patriarchy and connections to the Society are discussed At about 52:00, The commodification of the history of the Society and Societal connections to the Manhattan Project At about 54:30, Devin responds to Pete asking about Clark Clifford and Harry Truman and connections to local and federal governments At about 56:50, Devin reflects on the life and legacy of Thomas Dooley At about 58:50, Monsanto and other St. Louis connections and Black communities’ protests, including ACTION, are discussed At about 1:02:40, The famed 1972 unmasking of the Veiled Prophet is discussed At about 1:04:00, Devin talks about going to the VP Fair as a kid At about 1:04:40, The two discuss the book’s ending and St. Louis “potential”      You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode is the trailer episode for Pete’s limited podcast series, Rage is a Gift: Evil Empire at 30. Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.     Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 346 with Julie Buntin, whose debut, Marlena, was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle’s John Leonard Prize and longlisted for the Center for Fiction’s First Novel Prize. The novel was released in ten territories worldwide and named a best book of the year by over a dozen outlets, including The Washington Post, NPR, and Kirkus Reviews.     The episode airs on July 14, Pub Day for her novel, Famous Men. This book is so, so good.     Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

In this trailer episode, Pete reflects on the Importance (and the power of this capital "I") of Rage Against the Machine and their seminal Evil Empire album, which is celebrating 30 years of resistance. The limited podcast series will do a deep exploration of, and reflection on, the lyrics and context of each of the 12 powerful songs on the album.   Individual episodes can be bought for $3, and the whole series for $20.   BUY THE EPISODE HERE, VIA PATREON

Notes and Links to Rachel León’s Work     Rachel León (she/they) is a writer, editor, and social worker, who has worked in child welfare for nearly two decades. She serves as Managing Director for Chicago Review of Books. Their debut novel, How We See the Gray, is out from Curbstone Books as of May 15, 2026. Buy How We See the Gray   Rachel León Website     At about 1:45, Rachel gives a summary of How We See the Gray and information about book events and purchasing At about 4:15, Rachel talks about her writing and reading background, as well as how visual art figured in to her early publications  At about 6:30, Rachel highlights Gwendolyn Brooks’ work as formative and transformative for her At about 7:50, Rachel cites Sarah Lippman and Justin Torres as contemporary writers who inspire her, including Torres’ approach and “We” usage At about 10:10, Rachel responds to Pete asking about her reading life as an editor At about 16:10, Pete asks Rachel about seeds for How We See the Gray and the myriad ways in which her work in child welfare has informed her writing of the book At about 20:55, Rachel homes in on the time in the field that led her to write How We See the Gray and her current work At about 22:00, Rachel talks about her love for the band La Historia, and getting permission to use the band’s lyrics in the book At about 24:00, Pete riffs on the book’s collective voice and asks Rachel to talk about the usage of “We” in the book At about 26:30, Rachel responds to Pete’s questions about case workers and their motivations, as well as ideas of “vocations” and working “in the trenches” At about 29:55, Pete lays out some of the book’s exposition, and asks Rachel about ideas of Meredith, a main character, being too trusting/savior-ish in her work At about 33:25, The two discuss Meredith and her coparenting  At about 34:50, Rachel talks about the youth of her characters and their relationship with idealism  At about 36:50, Rachel expands on the ways in which main character Ebony has learned to “not let her guard down” At about 38:20, Rachel reflects on race and privilege and patronizing attitudes in the foster system, both outside the book and inside At about 42:30, Rachel talks about “mapping out” storylines and “microstories” and chronologies for her book At about 43:50, The two discuss double-standards regarding lack of responsibility for  At about 44:55, Rachel expands on Rockford, Illinois, and her rationale in including slightly-adapted headlines from the local papers At about 47:15, Pete talks about foster parents in the book bucks expectations  At about 48:00, Rachel responds to Pete asking about the “trauma-bonding” among coworkers and the benefits and disadvantages  At about 52:00, Jamal and his versatile work is discussed At about 53:10, Meredith’s drinking and the root causes are discussed  At about 56:00, “Found families” through the foster system are discussed At about 56:50, Pete cites some of the book’s vast profundity  At about 58:00, Rachel talks about the treatment of LGBTQ+ young people in the system At about 1:01:23-AXE Body Spray profundity! At about 1:02, Medreith and being part of the system as a mother are discussed, and Pete asks Rachel about her views on the state of the “system”        You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode deals with short, powerful poems and prose that pack a punch-take that, alliteration! The episode features meaningful and resonant work from Robert Hershon, Mosab Abu Toha, Ernest Hemingway, Sara Abou Rashed, Khaled Juma, Andrea Cohen, and Marwan Makhoul.    Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 345 with Devin Thomas O'Shea is the author of The Veiled Prophet, publishing with Haymarket Books in June 2026. His writing appears in The Nation, The Iowa Review, Slate, Jacobin, Boulevard, and elsewhere.    The episode airs on June 23, Pub Day for The Veiled Prophet.    Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to Steven Thrasher’s Work      Dr. Steven Thrasher is an American journalist and academic. In 2019, he became the inaugural Daniel H. Renberg Chair of social justice in reporting and an assistant professor of journalism at Northwestern University's Medill School of Journalism. In 2012, he won the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association Journalist of the Year award.   Buy The Overseer Class: A Manifesto   Stephen Thrasher's Website   Review of The Overseer Class from Publisher’s Weekly   At about 1:15, Steven talks about book events and the book’s May 19 publication At about 2:40, Steven shares interesting and “clarifying” feedback from readers on The Overseer Class At about 4:00, Steven details his childhood reading and writing and creative pursuits At about 7:40, Steven and Pete discuss the horrible news about the attacks on book choice, a high number of higher education institutions and their “capitulation,” but also the wonderful ways in which Oxnard, CA, and other “low ed” institutions have helped foster community and safety At about 11:45, Steven responds to Pete’s asking about the three quotes that start the book by sharing his gratitude to the three writers/estates who allowed him to use the words; he talks about the quotes setting up “tension” in his book At about 18:00, The two discuss the way the book starts and reflect on dynamics of the repression of Gaza as both singular and as representative of all “imperial force,” such as Tyre Nichols’ killing in early 2023 At about 22:00, the two discuss Martin Luther King and Malcolm X’s legacies and the stories told about them, and their work to make connections with international struggles  At about 24:35, Steven expands on cases in which Black men have been killed by the police, and the changing dynamics and populations around US police forces At about 26:00, Steven notes the “rehabilition” of the Black cop in media in recent years, and the ways in which Black chiefs  At about 27:10, Pete references a possible thesis for Steven’s book and asks Steven to talk about distinguishing (or not) between the overseer class and individuals outside the system At about 30:40, Steven recounts the history of Denmark Vecsey in furthering his point of the overseer class and its role At about 33:10, Steven discusses his short-lived plans to become a police officer and its connection to employment  At about 34:30, Steven cites Black in Blue as a pivotal book in his research At about 36:00, Steven reflects on needs for jobs and connections to jobs that people may be ideologically opposed to police work or similar work At about 37:00, Steven responds to Pete asking about the idea of “changing the institution (policing) from within” At about 40:00, Steven talks about power dynamics, levels of power, and historical links to the “overseer” trope At about 42:40, Steven breaks down terms coined to show the engineering of Black cops and female cops as tools of “freedom” At about 44:20, The two discuss the overseer trope in the military, including “feel good stories” involving Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell At about 46:45, Pete and Steven reflect on the power of a “No” for those resisting overseer status At about 48:10, Steven gives background on being in solidarity with his students and how he has stood up for his ideals; he also talks about the wonderful work by protestors on various college campuses  At about 51:45, Steven reflects on his unforgettable five days on campus at Northwestern and evolving campus protests  At about 56:10, Steven talks about the importance of “being a Toni”        You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode deals with short, powerful poems and prose that pack a punch-take that, alliteration! The episode features meaningful and resonant work from Robert Hershon, Mosab Abu Toha, Ernest Hemingway, Sara Abou Rashed, Khaled Juma, Andrea Cohen, and Marwan Makhoul.    Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 344 with Rachel León, a writer, editor, and social worker, who has worked in child welfare for nearly two decades. She serves as Managing Director for Chicago Review of Books.     The episode airs on May 15, Pub Day for How We See the Gray, their first novel.    Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to Isaac Fitzgerald’s Work     Isaac Fitzgerald is the New York Times bestselling author of Dirtbag, Massachusetts (winner of a New England Book Award and the New Atlantic Independent Booksellers Association Book of the Year Award). He appears frequently on The Today Show and is also the author of the bestselling children’s book How to Be a Pirate as well as the co-author of Pen & Ink: Tattoos and the Stories Behind Them and Knives & Ink: Chefs and the Stories Behind Their Tattoos (winner of an IACP Award). His writing has appeared in The New York Times, The Atlantic, Esquire, GQ, The Guardian, The Best American Nonrequired Reading, and numerous other publications. He lives with his wife, Kelly Farber, and their two dogs on the North Fork of Long Island. His next book, American Rambler, is forthcoming from Knopf. Buy American Rambler: Walking the Trail of Johnny Appleseed    Isaac Fitzgerald's Website   Review for American Rambler in The Boston Globe     At about 3:20, Isaac talks about the book as “braided” and positive feedback he’s gotten from independent booksellers At about 4:40, Isaac gives background on his rich reading and writing life from childhood At about 7:00, Isaac talks about a few catalysts for American Rambler, including Bill Bryson’s A Walk in the Woods… Another Bullshit Night in Suck City by Nick Flynn, and An American Story by Howard Means At about 8:55, Pete shouts out Matt Bell’s Appleseed, and Isaac reflects on the “mythification” of Johnny Appleseed  At about 13:20, Pete cites a beautiful quote on the connection between parents and storytelling and expands on how his parents and their travels and their storytelling thrilled him At about 17:00, Pete tells about his own experience with childhood stories, and Isaac shares his thoughts on oral storytelling and its connection to real-life experiences for children winning out over continued screen time At about 19:10, Isaac responds to Pete’s asking about his mother and father as opposites in many ways At about 23:00, Pete compliments the book’s first line and asks Isaac about the book’s first hike: Isaac refers to the book as a “coming-of-middle-age” At about 28:10, Isaac responds to Pete’s questions about Swedenborgism and its influence on Johnny Appleseed At about 33:10, The two discuss the balance between the social and the solitary  At about 35:50-John Freeman shoutouts! Isaac talks about important advice/editing from John Freeman with AA Knopf At about 38:20, The two discuss reading as a collaborative pursuit-a “two-person technology” At about 39:00, Pete and Isaac talk about Old Man and the Sea and the idea of a “comfort read” At about 40:15, Pete cites two examples of Isaac’s work in connection to David Foster Wallace’s work in complimenting Isaac’s work in opposition to the “flyover country” ethos; Isaac cites Rabin’s Old Glory: An American Voyage   At about 45:40, Pete and Isaac highlight a particularly charismatic person who was featured in the book At about 48:25, Isaac talks about his great experience with the Fort Wayne Tin Caps in the book At about 50:50, Isaac responds to Pete asking about the passages from the book where he shared profundity with Ashley C. Ford and Saeed Jones At about 51:25, It gets defecatory!  At about 52:15, Isaac expands on how his time staying with writer friends is in a Kerouac-ian tradition  At about 55:40, Isaac talks about his process that allowed him to  “writing conversationally” and the importance of reading his work aloud At about 57:20, Pete and Isaac reflect on the idea of the public intellectual and the balance between social media communities and authentically celebrating exploration and wonderful art    You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode deals with short, powerful poems and prose that pack a punch-take that, alliteration! The episode features meaningful and resonant work from Robert Hershon, Mosab Abu Toha, Ernest Hemingway, Sara Abou Rashed, Khaled Juma, Andrea Cohen, and Marwan Makhoul.    Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 343 with Steven Thrasher, whose writing has been widely published by Scientific American, The New York Times, Nation, The Journal of American History, BuzzFeed News, Esquire and New York magazine. In 2019, Out Magazine named him one of the 100 most influential and impactful people of the year and in 2020, the Ford Foundation awarded him a grant for Creativity and Free Expression. The Viral Underclass, his first book, was widely-awarded and acclaimed, and his second book, The Overseer Class: A Manifesto, will be the focus of the podcast conversation.    The episode airs on May 14, and the book has a May 19 Pub Date.    Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to Kerri Schlottman’s Work   Kerri Schlottman is a writer of literary fiction novels, most recently Daytime Moon, out with Unnamed Press as of May 12, 2026. Her novel Tell Me One Thing was named a 2025 Storytrade Literary Fiction Finalist, a two-time 2024 PenCraft Fiction Award Winner, a 2023 American Book Fest Best Literary Fiction Book Finalist, and a Shelf Awareness Best Book This Week.  She works to support artists, performers, and writers in creating new projects and is a part-time graduate professor at NYU in arts administration. Previously, she was a massage therapist, a factory worker, a copy editor, and briefly enrolled in law school.  Buy Daytime Moon   Kerri Schlottman’s Website At about 2:00, Kerri talks about early feedback for Daytime Moon At about 3:00, Kerri outlines her arts administration university job At about 5:00, Kerri gives background on her early reading and writing  At about 6:20, Kerri talks about transformational and formational works and writers At about 7:20, Kerri expands on the particular greatness of Vonnegut At about 8:30, Kerri responds to Pete asking about Detroit and Michigan and any connections to “Midwest Nice” At about 9:30, Kerri cites contemporary writers who push her own work forward, include Charlotte McConaghy and Christie Hodgen At about 11:20, Kerri shoots out publisher Unnamed Press and places to buy her book, as well as book events, one with Meagan Woods At about 13:35, Kerri talks about seeds for the book and gives interesting background on the history of the Salton Sea At about 16:30, Kerri details a New Yorker article about Hannah Upp and its influence on her work At about 18:45, Pete shouts out Tod Goldberg’s stellar Salton Sea writing, and Kerri expands on the “fascinating” life in the Salton Sea “plots”/flat and Slab City and “off the grid” living  At about 21:50, Pete outlines the book’s exposition, and Kerri responds to Pete’s questions about the symbolism of this part and its setting up later plot At about 25:50, Pete outlines more of the book’s opening and main characters, and Kerri speaks to the combination of the “artsy, countercultural" Isa and the business-oriented Merce At about 30:00, Kerri expounds on connections between Isa and her brother  At about 32:30, Kerri responds to Pete’s questions about Ella, Isa’s sister, and the reason for Isa’s fleeing the Salton Sea At about 34:45, Kerri talks about Isa’s “culture shock” in NYC, and talks about Dane’s sending them on a quest with letters left behind At about 36:00, Pete highlights the later age for the coming-of-age in the book-a resounding success At about 36:55, Kerri responds to Pete’s question about different expectations for men and women and their treatment and/or neglect of their children At about 41:10, Isa’s Lizzie and her cancer diagnosis are discussed, as Kerri discusses her last days and promises At about 45:00, Pete asks Kerri about ideas of tarot and the future and belief in some or all of the process/precepts; Kerri talks about “escapism” in its many forms At about 48:00, The two discuss Isa’s sadness after her friend’s death and Isa’s interactions with her father At about 49:00, Kerri gives background on a tarot reading scene that Pete highlights as so well-drawn At about 49:50, Pete stumbles into a classic Faulkner quote and the two discuss the past’s impact on the characters’ present At about 52:15, Pete references a great Alice Elliott Dark line when talking about the book as a moving “elegy” At about 53:40, Kerri discusses the “cascading effect” as Isa and Cole begin to meet new/undiscovered family members At about 55:10, Pete mentions the book as a great “road trip book” in response to Kerri’s reflection on “found families” At about 57:45, Pete remarks on how masterfully Kerri deals with time span, and she reflects on her mindset in writing about this as she did At about 1:00:00, Kerri talks about “allusion[s]” in the book to environmental dangers happening in real time At about 1:02:45, Pete gives kudos to Kerri for the book’s pathos and overall greatness    You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and please leave a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode deals with short, powerful poems and prose that pack a punch-take that, alliteration! The episode features meaningful and resonant work from Robert Hershon, Mosab Abu Toha, Ernest Hemingway, Sara Abou Rashed, Khaled Juma, Andrea Cohen, and Marwan Makhoul.    Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.     This is a passion project, a DIY operation, and Pete would love for your help in promoting what he’s convinced is a unique and spirited look at an often-ignored art form.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 342 with Isaac Fitzgerald, the New York Times bestselling author of Dirtbag, Massachusetts (winner of a New England Book Award and the New Atlantic Independent Booksellers Association Book of the Year Award). He appears frequently on The Today Show and is also the author of the bestselling children’s book How to Be a Pirate as well as the co-author of Pen & Ink: Tattoos and the Stories Behind Them and Knives & Ink: Chefs and the Stories Behind Their Tattoos (winner of an IACP Award). His next book, American Rambler, is out now.    The episode airs on May 12, Pub Day for American Rambler.     Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.

Notes and Links to Donna Minkowitz’s Work     Donna Minkowitz is a writer of fantasy, memoir, and journalism lauded by Lilith Magazine for her “fierce imagination and compelling prose.” Science fiction great Terry Bisson called her writing “rich and wild, dark and funny, as fearless as her legendary journalism and as scary as a fairy tale.” And she’s proud that Kirkus has praised the “defiant and playful energy” of her work.    Her memoir Growing Up Golem, a finalist for both a Lambda Literary Award and the Judy Grahn Nonfiction Award, is being republished by Indolent Books after 13 years!    Buy Growing Up Golem   Donna Minkowitz's Website   Review of Growing Up Golem from Kirkus Reviews     At about 1:30, Donna and Pete highlight the pending reissue of Growing Up Golem  At about 2:30, Pete asks Donna about how she sees Growing Up Golem 13 years later, and she gives a summary of the book At about 4:10, Donna expands on the idea set forth in the Writer’s Note that the book is “88% true” At about 7:15, Donna talks about the general idea of the “golem” and the providence of the book’s conceit At about 9:00, Donna reflects on the idea of “memory” and the science behind it, as well as the memoir as a “work of art” At about 10:10, Donna responds to Pete’s asking about the book’s opening referencing Donna’s mom and her creating a “Donna Doll” At about 12:40, Donna expands on ideas of guilt and selfishness and psychosomatic pain that came with her Repetitive Strain Injury At about 14:40, Donna responds to Pete asking about her mother’s health struggles and ideas of impending death At about 17:00, The two talk about Donna’s mother’s artistic prowess and Donna’s feelings of “twoness” At about 19:45, Donna examines the idea of her mother that lying could be correct, and what the philosophy said about her mother and her morality At about 22:40, Donna expands on feelings of “twoness” in connection to W.E.B. DuBois At about 24:10, Donna reflects on her early writing with The Village Voice and her motivations and mindset in writing for the publication  At about 27:00, Donna outlines her mother’s health problems and connections to her sexuality and sensuality  At about 29:00, Pete asks Donna how she balances the fact that her mother was a victim of sexual violence  At about 32:05, Donna expands on The Village Voice and her reporting around ACT Up and its advocacy and activism, as well as Queer Nation  At about 34:35, Donna tells Julio Rivera’s story, as she did for the publication  At about 36:20, Donna talks about her father’s death and his “scari[ness]” before his death and the “strange dynamic" of him as a “scapegoat” and her mother’s behavior after his death At about 39:20, Pete wonders about a sort of "competition" between Donna and her mother, particularly with regard to a 1991 Thanksgiving interaction  At about 41:45, Donna responds to Pete asking about her mother’s often making fun of her mother's body  At about 44:25, Donna speaks about the “competing therapists” At about 48:15, Donna speaks on the idea of the golem as being built and possibly destroyed by the same person, as well as the classic legend of the golem  At about 51:30, Donna talks about a familial way of acting when threatened and confronting that reaction At about 52:25, Pete cites some “beautiful moments” from her therapist and mother, and Donna reflects  At about 53:20, The two reflect on ideas of control and freedom in Donna’s personal life and connections to therapy and her mother’s influence  At about 55:25, Donna talks about connections between early and later relationships and the ways she was treated  At about 58:20, Pete and Donna discuss the book’s juxtapositions and her concerns and struggles with her chronic pain          You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you’re checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Jeff Pearlman, a recent guest, is up now at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete’s one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month’s Patreon bonus episode deals with short, powerful poems and prose that pack a punch-take that, alliteration! The episode features meaningful and resonant work from Robert Hershon, Mosab Abu Toha, Ernest Hemingway, Sara Abou Rashed, Khaled Juma, Andrea Cohen, and Marwan Makhoul.    Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show. You can also buy single episodes for $3 each.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 341 with Kerri Schlottman, whose novel Tell Me One Thing was named a 2025 Storytrade Literary Fiction Finalist, a two-time 2024 PenCraft Fiction Award Winner, and a 2023 American Book Fest Best Literary Fiction Book Finalist. She is a part-time graduate professor at NYU in arts administration.    The episode airs today, Pub Day for her latest gem, Daytime Moon, May 12.    Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.    You can also donate at chuffed.org, World Central Kitchen, and so many more, and/or you can contact writer friend Ursula Villarreal-Moura directly or through Pete, as she has direct links with friends in Gaza.