132: Church Growth & The Comparison Trap | with Cledra Gross

In Stop Doing This to Volunteers: Top Mistakes Our Churches Are Making, this episode looks at a mistake that feels kind - but ends up weakening people and teams over time. When we over-simplify roles in the name of “helping,” we don’t just remove responsibility - we remove meaning. People don’t stay because a job is easy. They stay because it matters.In this episode, we cover:How doing too much for people isn't always helpfulWhy easier isn’t the same as healthierPeople who feel needed show up with different energyRESOURCES MENTIONEDJoin our free Facebook CommunitySupport the show SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW If you loved this episode, please take a moment to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts! Your support helps us reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches who need to hear this. 🎙 Thanks for tuning in to Small Church Ministry Podcast! See you next week! FOLLOW US:Website: smallchurchministry.comInstagram: instagram.com/smallchurchministryFacebook: facebook.com/smallchurchministryCreative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook Community: facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministrySmall Church Network: smallchurchministry.com/membership

This episode kicks off our Stop Doing This to Volunteers series by naming a simple but overlooked leadership habit: never revisiting where someone serves once they’ve said yes. We talk about the fear that keeps churches from inviting movement, and the belief many people carry that enjoying their role — or wanting something different — is somehow selfish instead of faithful.In this episode, we cover:Why long-term service doesn’t always mean long-term fitThe fear that asking “what would you rather be doing?” will leave you short-handedWhy liking what we do - and wanting something different - doesn’t make us less holyRESOURCES MENTIONEDJoin our free Facebook CommunityGet the Ministry Bundles here!Support the show SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW If you loved this episode, please take a moment to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts! Your support helps us reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches who need to hear this. 🎙 Thanks for tuning in to Small Church Ministry Podcast! See you next week! FOLLOW US:Website: smallchurchministry.comInstagram: instagram.com/smallchurchministryFacebook: facebook.com/smallchurchministryCreative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook Community: facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministrySmall Church Network: smallchurchministry.com/membership

Your small church already has a digital ministry - whether you’ve planned for it or not. Through your website, social media, and emails, you’re constantly communicating who you are and what people can expect, sometimes clearly and sometimes unintentionally sending the wrong message. In this episode, we talk about why that matters more than we think and how small, thoughtful shifts can help your digital presence reflect your heart, not just your information.In this episode, we talk about:How churches unintentionally communicate confusion, pressure, or disconnection onlineWhy your digital presence shapes trust long before someone ever visits in personWhat “digital ministry” actually means for small churches (without adding more work)Simple ways to align your online presence with the experience you want people to haveConnect with Leslie Kons: studiokons.comJoin our free Facebook Community: facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministryRate, Review, & Follow Laurie on Apple Podcasts"I love Laurie and The Small Church Ministry Podcast!!" << If that's like you, please consider rating and reviewing my show! This helps Small Church Ministry support and reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches! Click here, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, and select “Write a Review.” Then, let us know what you loved most about this episode!Also, if you haven’t done so already, follow the podcast. This is the best way to stay updated on the new episodes we release weekly. If you’re not following, there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on future episodes. Follow now!Get the Ministry Bundles here!Support the show SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW If you loved this episode, please take a moment to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts! Your support helps us reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches who need to hear this. 🎙 Thanks for tuning in to Small Church Ministry Podcast! See you next week! FOLLOW US:Website: smallchurchministry.comInstagram: instagram.com/smallchurchministryFacebook: facebook.com/smallchurchministryCreative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook Community: facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministrySmall Church Network: smallchurchministry.com/membership

We’re sharing something special this week. Right after our Women’s Ministry for Small Churches Conference, we’re bringing you the opening mainstage session - a conversation that pushes back on the pressure-filled, program-heavy version of outreach many of us were handed.In this episode, we explore:Why traditional outreach models often don’t work in small churchesHow Jesus-centered outreach starts with people, not programsWhat it looks like to live with our communities instead of trying to draw people inSimple, relational ways to practice outreach without burnout or pressureGet the replays before Wednesday at midnight! www.smallchurchsummits.comJoin our free Facebook Community: facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministryRate, Review, & Follow Laurie on Apple Podcasts"I love Laurie and The Small Church Ministry Podcast!!" << If that's like you, please consider rating and reviewing my show! This helps Small Church Ministry support and reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches! Click here, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, and select “Write a Review.” Then, let us know what you loved most about this episode!Also, if you haven’t done so already, follow the podcast. This is the best way to stay updated on the new episodes we release weekly. If you’re not following, there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on future episodes. Follow now!Get the Ministry Bundles here!Support the show SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW If you loved this episode, please take a moment to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts! Your support helps us reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches who need to hear this. 🎙 Thanks for tuning in to Small Church Ministry Podcast! See you next week! FOLLOW US:Website: smallchurchministry.comInstagram: instagram.com/smallchurchministryFacebook: facebook.com/smallchurchministryCreative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook Community: facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministrySmall Church Network: smallchurchministry.com/membership

So much of what forms our faith doesn’t happen in programs, events, or official roles. It happens through real women who show up, listen, love, and stay. In this episode, Traci Mason and I share personal stories of women in our church lives who shaped us in lasting ways without ever being “in charge.” This is an honest, grateful conversation about influence that’s relational, faithful, and far more impactful than we often realize.In this episode, we talk about:The women who shaped our faith through presence, consistency, and careWhy informal, relational influence often forms people more deeply than organized ministryHow small, faithful actions ripple through a church over timeWhat this kind of influence invites all of us to notice - and becomeConnect with Traci Mason: [email protected] your FREE ticket to the Women's Ministry for Small Churches Conference! >> www.smallchurchsummits.comJoin our free Facebook Community: facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministryRate, Review, & Follow Laurie on Apple Podcasts"I love Laurie and The Small Church Ministry Podcast!!" << If that's like you, please consider rating and reviewing my show! This helps Small Church Ministry support and reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches! Click here, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, and select “Write a Review.” Then, let us know what you loved most about this episode!Also, if you haven’t done so already, follow the podcast. This is the best way to stay updated on the new episodes we release weekly. If you’re not following, there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on future episodes. Follow now!Get the Ministry Bundles here!Support the show SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW If you loved this episode, please take a moment to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts! Your support helps us reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches who need to hear this. 🎙 Thanks for tuning in to Small Church Ministry Podcast! See you next week! FOLLOW US:Website: smallchurchministry.comInstagram: instagram.com/smallchurchministryFacebook: facebook.com/smallchurchministryCreative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook Community: facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministrySmall Church Network: smallchurchministry.com/membership

So much women’s ministry is built on calendars, themes, and events - and yet many women still feel unseen, overwhelmed, or disconnected. In this episode, Jessica Francavilla and I talk about what it looks like to actually discern what women need in a given season, and why programs alone often miss the deeper spiritual and emotional realities women are carrying. We share how a small, multi-generational team listened, paid attention, and responded in ways that were more relational, more human, and far more impactful than another event.In This Episode, We Talk About:Why well-intentioned programs often miss what women are really walking throughHow discernment starts with listening, not planningWhat a multi-generational approach reveals that one age group can’t see aloneHow presence and responsiveness can reshape ministry without adding more to the calendarConnect with Jessica Francavilla: www.cityoffreedom.info www.livinghopeva.comGet your FREE ticket to the Women's Ministry for Small Churches Conference! >> www.smallchurchsummits.comJoin our free Facebook Community: facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministryRate, Review, & Follow Laurie on Apple Podcasts"I love Laurie and The Small Church Ministry Podcast!!" << If that's like you, please consider rating and reviewing my show! This helps Small Church Ministry support and reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches! Click here, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, and select “Write a Review.” Then, let us know what you loved most about this episode!Also, if you haven’t done so already, follow the podcast. This is the best way to stay updated on the new episodes we release weekly. If you’re not following, there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on future episodes. Follow now!Get the Ministry Bundles here!Support the show SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW If you loved this episode, please take a moment to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts! Your support helps us reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches who need to hear this. 🎙 Thanks for tuning in to Small Church Ministry Podcast! See you next week! FOLLOW US:Website: smallchurchministry.comInstagram: instagram.com/smallchurchministryFacebook: facebook.com/smallchurchministryCreative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook Community: facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministrySmall Church Network: smallchurchministry.com/membership

After decades of ministry in small churches — including years as a pastor’s wife — Abigail Doust has learned what truly serves women and what quietly pushes them away. In this episode, we talk honestly about moving beyond stereotypes, events-for-events’-sake, and one-person leadership, and toward ministry that helps women feel seen, known, and spiritually formed. This is a grounded, experience-rich conversation about gathering women well, building teams, and creating space for authentic faith to grow.In this episode, we talk about: The difference between women’s ministry and a ministry that actually serves womenWhy many women quietly avoid church events — and what changes thatHow small teams and shared leadership create healthier ministryWhat discipleship looks like when we focus on the whole person, not attendanceConnect with Abigail Doust: equippingforimpact.comGet your FREE ticket to the Women's Ministry for Small Churches Conference! >> www.smallchurchsummits.comJoin our free Facebook Community: facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministryRate, Review, & Follow Laurie on Apple Podcasts"I love Laurie and The Small Church Ministry Podcast!!" << If that's like you, please consider rating and reviewing my show! This helps Small Church Ministry support and reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches! Click here, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, and select “Write a Review.” Then, let us know what you loved most about this episode!Also, if you haven’t done so already, follow the podcast. This is the best way to stay updated on the new episodes we release weekly. If you’re not following, there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on future episodes. Follow now!Get the Ministry Bundles here!Support the show SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW If you loved this episode, please take a moment to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts! Your support helps us reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches who need to hear this. 🎙 Thanks for tuning in to Small Church Ministry Podcast! See you next week! FOLLOW US:Website: smallchurchministry.comInstagram: instagram.com/smallchurchministryFacebook: facebook.com/smallchurchministryCreative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook Community: facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministrySmall Church Network: smallchurchministry.com/membership

Burnout doesn’t happen because your pastor failed, your church is unhealthy, or no one stepped up to help. It happens when we believe we have no choice and keep serving under pressure instead of agency. In this episode, we talk honestly about why burnout isn’t someone else’s fault, why that truth can feel uncomfortable at first, and why it’s also the doorway to real change. You’ll hear: The stories that keep us stuck in burnout without realizing it Why waiting for leadership or circumstances to change rarely brings relief How agency creates options (even when nothing else changes)What it looks like to serve faithfully without burning yourself outJoin our free Facebook Community: www.facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministryRate, Review, & Follow Laurie on Apple Podcasts"I love Laurie and The Small Church Ministry Podcast!!" << If that's like you, please consider rating and reviewing my show! This helps Small Church Ministry support and reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches! Click here, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, and select “Write a Review.” Then, let us know what you loved most about this episode!Also, if you haven’t done so already, follow the podcast. This is the best way to stay updated on the new episodes we release weekly. If you’re not following, there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on future episodes. Follow now!Get the Ministry Bundles here!Support the show SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW If you loved this episode, please take a moment to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts! Your support helps us reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches who need to hear this. 🎙 Thanks for tuning in to Small Church Ministry Podcast! See you next week! FOLLOW US:Website: smallchurchministry.comInstagram: instagram.com/smallchurchministryFacebook: facebook.com/smallchurchministryCreative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook Community: facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministrySmall Church Network: smallchurchministry.com/membership

As we wrap up 2025, we’re looking at the conversations that truly landed with small churches - the episodes and quotes that sparked response, resonance, and even pushback. Topics like decline, pressure, money, conflict, and culture change weren’t just popular; they named real life. In this episode, we explore what that tells us. And why honesty mattered more than neat solutions.You’ll hear:What this year’s most-downloaded episodes and most-shared posts reveal for all of usWhy honest conversations drew people in, even when they were uncomfortableThe unexpected hope running through some tough topicsA grounded way to close the year and look ahead with more peace and hope than everGet $20 off your first month of the Small Church Network! (Hit the monthly payment option to redeem): www.clc.thrivecart.com/small-church-networkJoin our free Facebook Community: www.facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministryRate, Review, & Follow Laurie on Apple Podcasts"I love Laurie and The Small Church Ministry Podcast!!" << If that's like you, please consider rating and reviewing my show! This helps Small Church Ministry support and reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches! Click here, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, and select “Write a Review.” Then, let us know what you loved most about this episode!Also, if you haven’t done so already, follow the podcast. This is the best way to stay updated on the new episodes we release weekly. If you’re not following, there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on future episodes. Follow now!Get the Ministry Bundles here!Support the show SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW If you loved this episode, please take a moment to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts! Your support helps us reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches who need to hear this. 🎙 Thanks for tuning in to Small Church Ministry Podcast! See you next week! FOLLOW US:Website: smallchurchministry.comInstagram: instagram.com/smallchurchministryFacebook: facebook.com/smallchurchministryCreative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook Community: facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministrySmall Church Network: smallchurchministry.com/membership

This final episode in the finance series is a gentle reminder that the weight of your church’s future was never meant to sit on your shoulders. We talk about the very real year-end stress small churches feel, how Jesus measures ministry differently than we do, and why rest is an act of faithfulness, not neglect. If your church feels tired or stretched this month, this conversation will take the pressure down a notch.Listen in to hear:Why December pressure feels so personal - and why it isn’t the whole storyHow Christmas reframes the way we measure ministry, impact, and “success”How to lead with calm, grounded presence when everyone feels the tensionJoin our free Facebook Community: www.facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministryRate, Review, & Follow Laurie on Apple Podcasts"I love Laurie and The Small Church Ministry Podcast!!" << If that's like you, please consider rating and reviewing my show! This helps Small Church Ministry support and reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches! Click here, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, and select “Write a Review.” Then, let us know what you loved most about this episode!Also, if you haven’t done so already, follow the podcast. This is the best way to stay updated on the new episodes we release weekly. If you’re not following, there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on future episodes. Follow now!Get the Ministry Bundles here!Support the show SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW If you loved this episode, please take a moment to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts! Your support helps us reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches who need to hear this. 🎙 Thanks for tuning in to Small Church Ministry Podcast! See you next week! FOLLOW US:Website: smallchurchministry.comInstagram: instagram.com/smallchurchministryFacebook: facebook.com/smallchurchministryCreative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook Community: facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministrySmall Church Network: smallchurchministry.com/membership