Kathryn Sikkink - Human Rights, Evidence and Global Governance

In this episode, we welcome Professor Kathryn Sikkink, one of the most influential scholars of human rights, transnational advocacy and global accountability. The conversation opens with her early encounters with dictatorship in Uruguay and a sustained challenge to familiar origin stories that locate human rights primarily in the 1970s. For Sikkink, Latin America is not a peripheral or late adopter but a formative site of treaty-making, institutional design and early litigation that helped constitute the international human rights project within global governance. We then trace the movement from advocacy to scholarship. Sikkink reflects on the sharp disjuncture she encountered within political science, where NGOs, civil society and human rights were largely absent from mainstream international relations teaching. This experience shaped Activists Beyond Borders and her enduring concern with how transnational advocacy networks operate across states, institutions and social movements. From there, the discussion turns to transitional justice and the Global Accountability research programme, including why early prosecutions prioritised certain crimes, how gender attentiveness emerged only belatedly and why attention to violence against women can generate spillover effects rather than crowding out other harms. A central theme is epistemic humility in an age of expanding data. Sikkink explains the “information paradox”, why improved reporting can make human rights performance appear worse and what this means for evaluating China and other contexts where information is actively suppressed. The episode closes with a defence of comparative realisation as an ethical stance, a rejection of end-times narratives and a grounded account of hope as an empirically informed practice within global governance rather than an act of optimism alone. Kathryn Sikkink is the Ryan Family Professor of Human Rights Policy at Harvard Kennedy School. Kathryn Sikkink’s profile can be found here: https://www.hks.harvard.edu/faculty/kathryn-sikkink We discussed: • Evidence for Hope: Making Human Rights Work in the 21st Century. Princeton University Press, 2017. • The Justice Cascade: How Human Rights Prosecutions are Changing World Politics. New York: W.W. Norton & Co., 2011. • The Persistent Power of Human Rights: From Commitment to Compliance (with Thomas Risse and Stephen C. Ropp). Cambridge University Press, 2013. • Activists beyond Borders: Advocacy Networks in International Politics (with Margaret Keck). Cornell University Press, 1998.

In this episode, we welcome Professor Andrew Lang (University of Edinburgh), a leading critical voice in international economic law and global political economy. Andrew’s work poses a deceptively simple but analytically demanding question: how do law and expertise make global markets possible, and what forms of power and inequality are sedimented within everyday technical decisions? Drawing on his influential scholarship on “global ungovernance” (co-authored with Deval Desai), the conversation examines how contemporary global governance operates through a conjunction of institution-building and managed instability. This is a mode of rule that incorporates critique, problematises its own foundations and keeps central objectives such as the “rule of law” or “sustainability” structurally open to revision. The discussion begins with Andrew’s formative engagement with the global justice movements of the early 2000s, and the enduring normative orientation they provided for his scholarship. We then turn to a core intervention in his work: the most consequential forms of expertise are often those that present themselves as technical and apolitical. These modes shape problem definitions, delineate what can be known or measured and determine whose knowledge carries authority within global governance. Joined by student questions, the conversation moves from the “impossibility of closure” to the implications of accountability, agency and ethical responsibility. We explore crisis as a governing strategy, alongside contemporary invocations of “polycrisis” and resilience. Particular attention is paid to technical domains, from carbon accounting standards to supply-chain sustainability metrics, which emerge not as peripheral details but as constitutive elements of the global political economy. The episode closes with a reflection on an unsettled moment in global order, one in which inherited assumptions have eroded, ethical questions can no longer be deferred and a new generation of scholars and practitioners must reconsider what it means to exercise international expertise. Andrew Lang is Professor of International Law and Global Governance at the University of Edinburgh. His research spans international economic law, global political economy and the politics of expertise, with particular emphasis on how legal and technical practices constitute markets and organise global economic life. Andrew Lang’s profile can be found here: https://www.law.ed.ac.uk/people/professor-andrew-lang We discussed: ‘Global disordering: Practices of reflexivity in global economic governance,’ European Journal of International Law. 2024. 35, 1, p. 1-47. ‘Introduction: Global Un-Governance,’ (with D. Desai), Transnational Legal Theory. 2020. 11, 3, p. 219-407.

In this episode, we’re joined by Professor Simon Dalby, one of the most original thinkers in critical geopolitics and environmental security. His scholarship has fundamentally reshaped how we understand the relationship between ecology, violence, and global governance – pioneering the concept of political geoecology and, more recently, probing the incendiary entanglements of fossil fuels, statecraft, and planetary breakdown. We explore Simon’s intellectual journey, from early work on geopolitics and discourses of security, to his provocative interventions on anthropogenic fire and the combustible politics of the climate crisis, captured in his recent book Pyromania: Fire and Geopolitics in a Climate-Disrupted World. With characteristic clarity and urgency, Simon unpacks the dangerous inertia of existing institutions and the need to stop “governing as if the Earth were not burning.” We discuss the challenge of reimagining sovereignty, security, and governance in the context of Earth system disruption – and why a politics of planetary responsibility must begin with confronting fossil modernity head-on. Simon Dalby is Professor Emeritus at Wilfrid Laurier University. He is a former co-editor of the journal Geopolitics and author of multiple influential books on climate, war, and the changing foundations of global order. Simon’s profile can be found here: https://balsillieschool.ca/people/simon-dalby/ We discussed: • Pyromania: Fire and Geopolitics in a Climate Disrupted World (2024): https://cup.columbia.edu/book/pyromania/9781788216517/ • Review of Children of a Modest Star: Planetary Thinking for an Age of Crises by J. Blake & N. Gilman (2024): https://issforum.org/roundtables/PDF/Roundtable-XXVI-24.pdf • Firepower, Climate and the Dilemma of Security, RUSI Commentary, May 2022: https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/firepower-climate-and-dilemmas-security • Rethinking Environmental Security (2022): https://www.e-elgar.com/shop/gbp/rethinking-environmental-security-9781800375840.html

In this episode, we welcome Dr Nat Dyer, journalist, researcher and author of Ricardo’s Dream: How Economists Forgot the Real World and Led Us Astray. With clarity and wit, Nat takes us inside the story of how mainstream economics became unmoored from reality, tracing its detachment back to the legacy of David Ricardo and the seductive pull of abstract models. Drawing on insights from his new book, we explore the ways in which economics has lost sight of power, politics and people – and why that matters for tackling today’s global crises. From Ricardo’s imagined dream-world to the rise of neoliberal technocracy, Nat argues for a re-grounding of economics in the messy, contested terrain of the real world. Along the way, we discuss the influence of International Political Economy scholar Susan Strange – a formative intellectual figure for Nat and a powerful critic of economics’ neglect of structural power. With references to Strange’s notion of “casino capitalism,” the seduction of mathematical formalism, and the dangers of expert overreach, this is a conversation about reclaiming economics for democratic debate and social purpose. At a time of deep planetary and political instability, the stakes of getting economics right – and getting it real – could not be higher. Nat is an independent researcher, writer and journalist. His book Ricardo’s Dream is published by Bristol University Press. He writes regularly on the history of economics, the politics of expertise and the legacy of Susan Strange. Nat Dyer’s website can be found here: https://www.natdyer.com/ We discussed: • Ricardo’s Dream: How Economists Forgot the Real World and Led Us Astray: https://bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/trade/ricardos-dream • ‘Stand Up for Your Own Ideas’ – Susan Strange’s Remarkable Life: https://www.natdyer.com/stand-up-for-your-own-ideas-susan-stranges-remarkable-life/ • ‘I Never Meant to be an Academic,’ by Susan Strange: https://www.natdyer.com/i-never-meant-to-be-an-academic-by-susan-strange/

In this episode, we welcome one of the most influential voices in international relations, Professor Craig Murphy. A pioneer in global governance scholarship, Craig has been at the forefront of research on international organizations, industrial change, and the historical evolution of global political structures. His work bridges critical theory, historical materialism, and the study of transnational social movements, offering a sweeping perspective on the forces that have shaped our world. In recognition of his significant contribution to the field, Craig has received the Distinguished Senior Scholar Award in International Political Economy (2013) and International Organization (2024) from the International Studies Associations. In this conversation, we trace Craig’s trajectory through the intellectual landscape of the 1970s, where emerging ideas on world-systems theory, quantitative peace research, and environmental limits reshaped the study of international politics. With trademark humour, he reflects on the influence of Robert Cox and historical materialism, the critical need to challenge “relentless presentism” in global governance research, and the dual role of international institutions – as both market-builders for industrial capitalism and platforms for political resistance. We close by reflecting on a world grappling with existential threats and Craig’s salutary reminder that the task ahead is not just to critique existing governance but to fundamentally rethink and remake it. Craig Murphy is the Betty Freyhof Johnson ’44 Professor Emeritus of Political Science at Wellesley College. A leading scholar of global governance, he has served as President of the International Studies Association (2000-2001) and co-editor of the journal Global Governance. Craig Murphy’s Wellesley profile can be found here: https://www1.wellesley.edu/politicalscience/faculty/murphy We discussed: • ‘Every Just Peace is Something New: Translating a Difficult Finding from the Social Sciences to the Humanities and Back’, unpublished manuscript. • International Organization and Industrial Change: Global Governance since 1850 (Oxford, 1994). • ‘Global Governance Over the Long Haul’, International Studies Quarterly (2014). • ‘Global governance: poorly done and poorly understood’, International Affairs (2000).

In this episode, we welcome longtime friend and collaborator of the UCL Global Governance Institute, Professor Philipp Pattberg, to the podcast, a leading scholar in global environmental governance and sustainability transitions. As Director of the Amsterdam Sustainability Institute and Professor of Transnational Environmental Governance at VU Amsterdam, Philipp’s research examines the role of non-state actors, polycentric governance, and institutional complexity in shaping environmental policy. His work has not only advanced our understanding of governance arrangements beyond the nation-state but has also been instrumental in defining the contours of global governance itself – critically interrogating how the very concept of governance is framed, structured, and, ultimately, deployed in the world. With the UN Climate Change Conference (COP30) in Belém, Brazil, fast approaching, we take stock of the evolving governance landscape under the Paris Agreement. A decade after its adoption, the Paris framework continues to define global climate efforts – but does it still hold promise as an effective governance mechanism? In this episode, Pattberg explores the tensions between ambition and implementation, the growing role of private authority and climate clubs, and the need for transformative governance approaches to meet the urgency of the climate crisis. He also reflects on the broader implications of environmental governance beyond climate, from biodiversity loss to planetary boundaries, and what lessons can be drawn for possible futures of multilateralism. Throughout, he challenges us to consider how governance itself is shaped by ideological assumptions, questioning the analytical ‘boxes’ that define the field. Philipp is Professor of Transnational Environmental Governance at VU Amsterdam and Director of the Amsterdam Sustainability Institute. His research focuses on climate governance, biodiversity policy, and institutional change in global sustainability governance. He has published extensively in leading journals, including Global Governance, Global Environmental Politics and Environmental Policy and Governance, and is the author of Private Institutions and Global Governance and Environmental Politics and Governance in the Anthropocene (with Frank Biermann). Philipp’s VU Amsterdam profile can be found here: https://research.vu.nl/en/persons/ph-pattberg We discussed: • ’20 Years of global climate change governance research: taking stock and moving forward’, International Environment Agreements (2022). With Cille Kaiser, Oscar Widerberg and Johannes Stripple. • ‘Forum: Global Governance: Decline or Maturation of an Academic Concept?’ International Studies Review (2010). With Hans Overbeek, Klaus Dingwerth and Daniel Compagnon. • ‘The Fragmentation of Global Governance Architectures: A Framework for Analysis’, Global Environmental Politics (2009). With Frank Biermann, Harro van Asselt and Fariborz Zelli. • ‘Global Governance as a Perspective on World Politics’, Global Governance (2006). With Klaus Dingwerth.

Jonathan Blake and Nils Gilman join us to discuss their recent book, Children of a Modest Star: Planetary Thinking for an Age of Crises, in which they propose a framework of "planetary thinking" to address the interconnected crises facing humanity. Drawing on historical lessons from the COVID-19 pandemic, the International Atomic Energy Agency, and the eradication of smallpox, among other examples, Blake and Gilman advocate for moving beyond traditional state-centered responses. They urge a reorientation toward systemic, planetary-scale challenges that acknowledge humanity’s deep entanglement with ecological and biogeochemical systems. In this episode, we explore why "planetarity" is an idea whose time has come, the limitations of anthropocentric institutions, the practicalities of planetary governance in a world marked by socio-political differences, and the critical role of new epistemological frameworks in addressing climate change, biodiversity loss, and global security. Jonathan Blake is the Associate Director of Programs at the Berggruen Institute, where he oversees research projects and the broader research agenda for the Planetary Program. A political scientist with a PhD from UC Berkeley, his work focuses on planetary politics, ethnic conflict, and migration, among other topics. His writing has appeared in Noema, where he serves as Associate Editor, as well as in The Atlantic, Boston Review, The Nation, Los Angeles Review of Books, and various academic journals. Nils Gilman is the Chief Operating Officer and Executive Vice President at the Berggruen Institute and also serves as Deputy Editor of Noema Magazine. He is the author of Mandarins of the Future: Modernization Theory in Cold War America (2004), Deviant Globalization: Black Market Economy in the 21st Century (2011), and Children of a Modest Star: Planetary Thinking for an Age of Crises (2024). Holding a Bachelor’s, Master’s, and Doctorate in History from UC Berkeley, Gilman is a historian and political theorist with a career spanning academia and consultancy in international security. His work has contributed to foundational insights on climate security and governance, and his writings frequently explore the limitations of current institutions in addressing planetary-scale crises, positioning him as a leading voice in reimagining governance frameworks for the Anthropocene. Jonathan tweets @jonathansblake: https://x.com/jonathansblake Nils tweets @nils_gilman: https://x.com/nils_gilman We discussed: Children of a Modest Star: Planetary Thinking for an Age of Crises (Stanford University Press, 2024): https://www.sup.org/books/politics/children-modest-star

In this episode, we welcome one of the foremost scholars in international relations to the podcast, Professor Martha Finnemore. Recognized globally for her pioneering contributions to the field, Finnemore recently received the 2023 Johan Skytte Prize in Political Science alongside Alexander Wendt. This prestigious accolade celebrates their groundbreaking work in constructivism, a theory that has reshaped how we understand international politics by emphasizing the role of shared ideas and norms. In this episode, Finnemore reflects on the journey and impact of constructivism, tracing its rise from a niche critique to a central framework in global governance. We explore the intellectual and real-world challenges of persuading a discipline once dominated by materialist paradigms to take seriously the power of ideas. With enviable clarity, she explains how constructivism reveals the social underpinnings of power, from norms shaping cybersecurity to the shared authority in the governance of AI. Martha Finnemore is University Professor of Political Science and International Affairs at George Washington University. A leading scholar in global governance, international organizations, and social theory, her award-winning books include Rules for the World and The Purpose of Intervention. Her research has appeared in top journals like International Organization and World Politics. A Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, she has held research appointments at Brookings and Stanford and received fellowships from the MacArthur Foundation and the United States Institute of Peace. Martha’s GWU profile can be found here: https://elliott.gwu.edu/martha-finnemore We discussed: The Skytte Prize citation: https://www.skytteprize.com/prize-laureates/martha-finnemore-and-alexander-wendt Who Governs the Globe (with Deborah Avant and Susan K. Sell): https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/who-governs-the-globe/6B6B62E4C2E00E560DF3B2B35E79C839 Rules for the World: International Organizations in Global Politics (with Michael Barnett): https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9780801488238/rules-for-the-world/

Join me and some of our amazing UCL students as we delve into the world of global governance! Olivia Crosby, Oliver Parker, and Rachel Dodimead, all part of the MSc in Global Governance and Ethics in the Department of Political Science at University College London, chat about what it’s like studying here, their favourite moments from the year, and their aspirations for the future. We talk about their year full of discoveries, heaps of reading, hard work, and an eventful international trip to Geneva. As they wrap up their classes and start their research projects (and look for jobs!), it’s the perfect time to reflect on everything they’ve learned and what makes their group (and global governance) so special. The MSc Global Governance and Ethics website can be found here: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/political-scien... UCL Political Science can be found here: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/political-science/ UCL Global Governance Institute: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/global-governance/ UCL Global Governance Futures: Imperfect Utopias or Bust? podcast: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/global-governan... We discussed: Bonnita Roy – We Need to Watch Each Other Grow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMyXBSHoL3s&t=0s

Craig Murphy and Jonathan Rowson join us for a dialogue on global politics and the metacrisis, using as a springboard for this conversation the essay ‘Prefixing the World: Why the polycrisis is a permacrisis, which is actually a metacrisis, which is not really a crisis at all’, published by Jonathan on his Substack blog in late 2023. Craig recently participated in a panel on Crisis in Global Governance at the International Studies Association annual meeting where he engaged with Jonathan’s work in his remarks, seeing certain affinities between Jonathan’s claim that all global problems of the moment are connected to a single source, a single metacrisis and Craig’s own insights into the importance of grappling with the possible interconnections across global problems if problem solvers are going to develop the kind of complex solidarity that is likely to be essential to any adequate response to the daunting challenges of our times. We were honoured to be able to bring these two distinguished scholars and authors together for a far-reaching and deeply meaningful conversation. Craig Murphy is Betty Freyhof Johnson ’44 Professor Emeritus of Political Science at Wellesley College and is a leading light in the fields of international relations and political science, known particularly for his pioneering research on global governance. Jonathan Rowson is Co-founder and Chief Executive of Perspectiva, which is a collective of scholars, artists and activists who produce and publish outputs concerned with understanding the relationship between systems, souls and society in theory and practice. He was previously Director of the Social Brain Centre at the RSA where he authored a range of influential research reports on behaviour change, climate change and spirituality, and curated and chaired a range of related events. Craig’s official website profile can be found here: https://www1.wellesley.edu/politicalscience/faculty/murphy Jonathan’s profile can be found on the Perspectiva website: https://systems-souls-society.com/origin/people/ He tweets @Jonathan_Rowson His essays can also be read at Substack: https://substack.com/@jonathanrowson We discussed: Ursula Le Guin, ‘The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas’, 1973: https://shsdavisapes.pbworks.com/f/Omelas.pdf Geoff Mann, ‘It Was Not Supposed to End This Way’, August 2019: https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/geoff-mann-it-was-not-supposed-end-way/ See our podcast conversation Geoff Mann here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFmOtlbJPts Craig Murphy, ‘Leadership, Global Governance, and Peace’, November 2018: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ_nXvzcOEE Craig Murphy, ‘Engineering Rules’, 2024: https://www.press.jhu.edu/books/title/11653/engineering-rules#:~:text=of%20the%20internet.-,In%20Engineering%20Rules%2C%20JoAnne%20Yates%20and%20Craig%20N.,on%20all%20of%20our%20lives. Kim Stanley Robinson, The Ministry of the Future: https://www.orbitbooks.net/orbit-excerpts/the-ministry-for-the-future/ Jonathan Rowson, ‘Prefixing the World,’ September 2023: https://perspecteeva.substack.com/p/prefixing-the-world Jonathan Rowson, ‘Tasting the Pickle: ten flavours of meta-crisis and the appetite for a new civilisation’, February 2021: https://systems-souls-society.com/tasting-the-pickle-ten-flavours-of-meta-crisis-and-the-appetite-for-a-new-civilisation/ Adam Tooze, ‘Welcome to the world of the polycrisis’, Financial Times, 28 October 2022: https://www.ft.com/content/498398e7-11b1-494b-9cd3-6d669dc3de33