Data Center Debate, with Philip Johnston (CEO of Starcloud)

As constraints on energy, water, and permitting collide with exploding demand for AI and compute, a once-fringe idea is moving rapidly toward the center of the conversation: putting data centers in space. Starcloud believes orbital infrastructure isn’t science fiction—it’s a necessary extension of the global compute stack if scaling is going to continue at anything close to its current pace.Founded by Philip Johnston, Starcloud is building space-based compute systems designed to compete on cost, performance, and scale with terrestrial data centers. The company has already flown a data center–grade GPU in orbit and is now working toward larger, commercially viable systems that could reshape where and how AI is powered. We discuss:How energy and permitting constraints are reshaping the future of computeWhy space-based data centers may be economically inevitable, not optionalWhat Starcloud proved by running an H100 GPU in orbitHow launch costs, watts-per-kilogram, and chip longevity define the real economicsThe national security implications of who controls future compute capacity • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:50 - The issue with data centers02:20 - Explosion of the data center debates04:58 - Philip's 5GW data center rendering and early conceptions of data centers in space at YC08:16 - Proving people wrong11:17 - The team at Starcloud today12:29 - Competing against SpaceX's data center14:42 - Sam Altman's beef with Starlink16:52 - Economics of Orbital vs Terrestrial Data Centers by Andrew McCallip21:33 - Where are we putting these things?23:50 - Latency in space25:59 - Political side of building data centers28:36 - Starcloud 130:16 - Space based processors30:51 - Shakespeare in space32:00 - Hardening an Nvidia H100 against radiation and making chips in space economical34:43 - Cooling systems in space36:01 - How Starcloud is thinking about replacing failed GPUs38:46 - The mission for Starcloud 240:05 - Competitors outside of SpaceX40:49 - Getting to economical launch costs44:35 - Will the next great wars be over water and power for data centers?46:25 - What keeps Philip up at night?47:11 - What keeps Mo up at night? • Show notes •Starcloud’s website — https://www.starcloud.com/Philip’s socials — https://x.com/PhilipJohnstonMo's socials — https://x.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.com

As more nations realize that space is no longer just a scientific domain but a foundation of economic power and national security, a new question is emerging: who will actually build the infrastructure that underpins it? Orbitworks believes the answer lies in sovereign capability: designed locally, manufactured locally, and operated with speed and control.Founded by Hamdullah Mohib, a former national security advisor and diplomat who spent years operating at the highest levels of geopolitics, Orbitworks sits at an unusual intersection of statecraft and space manufacturing. Based in Abu Dhabi, the company is building one of the region’s first commercial satellite manufacturing facilities and developing Altair, a native constellation designed to move beyond raw imagery and toward information-driven services for both sovereign and commercial customers.We discuss:How Orbitworks is building a commercial satellite industry from scratch in the UAEThe strategic logic behind flexible architectures over fixed hardwareHow the Middle East is positioning itself as a serious node in the global space economyWhat it takes to build talent, supply chains, and culture in a brand-new space ecosystem • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:59 - Hamdullah's journey from government and geopolitics to space05:11 - What is Orbitworks?06:25 - Partnerships with Orbitworks08:43 - A joint venture09:40 - Partnering with Loft Orbital17:09 - Differences that founders experience in the Middle East21:26 - Altair constellation23:29 - Dual use commercial and government26:34 - Building a facility in KEZAD33:02 - Cultivating and nurturing talent34:30 - How the Middle East is thinking about space40:21 - Priorities of sovereign wealth funds42:33 - Lessons in leadership47:08 - Fundraising plans/goals48:47 - Hamdullah's vision for space in the Middle East50:46 - What excites Hamdullah the most about the space industry? • Show notes •Orbitwork’s website —https://www.orbitworks.space/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

We're back to kick off 2026!While the world debates how to power the next era of compute, data centers, and industrial growth, Overview Energy is betting the answer is above us. The company is building infrastructure to beam power from space directly to Earth's grid.Founded by Marc Berte, a nuclear and aerospace engineer who spent his career at the intersection of lasers, spacecraft, and high-energy systems, Overview is developing a constellation of satellites in geosynchronous orbit that absorb sunlight, convert it to near-infrared laser light, and transmit it to existing utility-scale solar projects on the ground. No new receivers required. By using wide-beam, passively safe transmission and off-the-shelf ground infrastructure, Overview aims to deliver dispatchable, redirectable power anywhere on the planet, turning space solar from science fiction into grid-scale reality.We discuss:Why space solar energy is finally viable after decades of false startsHow Overview's architecture avoids the in-space assembly problem entirelyHow the economics work: matching cost curves to high-price markets firstWhy GEO matters more than LEO for grid-scale power deliveryThe role of launch cost as the critical external variableWhy space solar could be the demand flywheel that drives launch costs down for everyone• Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:48 - The main problem Overview Energy is solving and why now04:34 - Why didn’t Marc pursue nuclear fusion/fission?05:34 - Incubated in Vast06:32 - State of the art today?09:58 - Acquisition and beaming down of solar energy and its efficiency12:23 - Safety, regulatory, and precision constraints14:54 - Competitive positioning in space solar power16:20 - Economics of orbital energy vs terrestrial renewables19:25 - How much more should someone be paying for orbital energy23:46 - Who will be their first customers?25:39 - What does the infrastructure look like?27:39 - Biggest bottleneck for orbital energy29:34 - Are current launch costs at the level needed for Overview Energy to kick off?30:27 - Commercial traction31:46 - Testing and evaluating these systems with the DoD and NASA33:38 - Early demonstrations and proof points35:21 - Overview Energy’s space-based demonstration36:22 - Chinese competition38:30 - How much more investment is needed to achieve the first gigawatt of power from space?40:42 - Can terrestrial renewables meet power demands without space-based energy43:41 - Grid of the future with orbital power in the picture44:50 - The technical unknowns of orbital energy48:24 - Powering other space assets49:46 - What Marc is building when he’s not working at Overview Energy • Show notes •Overview Energy’s website — https://www.overviewenergy.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/• About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Kerry Wisnosky believes the future of space power will be decided by maneuverability. As satellites remain largely static, Quantum Space is building the infrastructure to move, persist, and operate across orbits, from LEO to cislunar space.The company is developing Ranger, a six-metric-ton, high-delta-V spacecraft designed to operate for up to 15 years, host and deploy payloads, maneuver freely between orbits, and function as a refueling node. By combining chemical and electric propulsion into a single multimode system, Quantum aims to deliver both high-impulse mobility and long-duration efficiency—turning spacecraft from disposable assets into persistent infrastructure.Inside the episode:Why space remains a static domain and why maneuverability is the next decisive advantageHow Ranger reframes satellites from disposable assets into long-lived infrastructureThe strategic importance of fuel in orbit and why refueling changes mission economicsWhy multimode propulsion is the “holy grail” for mobility across orbitsHow life extension in GEO becomes the first commercial wedgeWhat zone defense in space could mean for missile defense architecturesWhy Quantum was early to the market and why demand is finally catching up • Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:45 – From Millennium to Quantum Space02:56 – Key products at Millennium03:57 – Evolution of Quantum's vision over the years06:34 – Ranger13:41 – 15 years of operational life16:22 – Acquiring Phase Four22:25 – Orbital mobility23:37 – Ranger doubling as a fuel depot25:51 – Target customers for Ranger30:52 – Interceptors in space for Golden Dome33:52 – Quantum Space's competitive edge35:27 – Are other maneuverability companies viewing the problem the wrong way?37:18 – Quantum Space's launches39:24 – What does success look like for Quantum's first Ranger mission?40:21 – Scaling and manufacturing43:53 – Why should talent work at Quantum?45:14 – Quantum Space in 5 years47:35 – What did Kerry not expect while building Quantum?48:49 – When is Quantum's next launch? • Show notes •Quantum Space’s website — https://www.quantumspace.us/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Lt. Gen. (Ret.) David “Abu” Nahom spent decades defending the American homeland, from commanding Alaska Command and the 11th Air Force to shaping Air Force budgets and strategy as the A8. Mike Dickey started his career in the original Strategic Defense Initiative, helped build the USSF and now advises companies and government leaders on the future of national security. Together, they unpack the realities behind Golden Dome: what it is, what it isn’t, and why it may be the most complex defense undertaking of our time.Inside the episode:Why homeland defense is no longer a Cold War problem and why threats across all domains demand a fundamentally new architectureWhat it actually takes to detect, track, and intercept advanced weapons, from ballistic missiles to hypersonics to low-observable cruise missilesHow command & control is the real bottleneck, and why BMC2 will define the success or failure of Golden DomeWhy integrating F-35s, space sensors, legacy radars, and new AI systems is a social-engineering challenge as much as a technical oneThe role of startups in a mission where “move fast and break things” collides with the reality of life-or-death stakesWhy public perception lags far behind the actual threat picture and what Americans get wrong about homeland defenseThe technologies on the horizon that could completely reshape missile defense in the next decade• Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:41 – David's and Mike's Backgrounds04:01 – How Elara Nova has grown since last episode05:17 – What makes Golden Dome different?08:00 – How exposed has the US been to missile threats?10:53 – What is the Golden Dome supposed to look like today?14:02 – Not reinventing the wheel16:38 – Capabilities of today and tomorrow23:00 – How new modes of launch change missile defense24:57 – Integrating new solutions with current systems27:15 – Golden Dome isn't a technology problem29:41 – How much does ego play into the social engineering challenge of the Golden Dome?32:47 – Unable to fail in this startup-driven golden age of space and defense tech36:11 – Risks of the Golden Dome budget ballooning39:29 – The deterrence calculus42:12 – How will Golden Dome interface with our allies44:20 – Exciting defense tech being developed or doesn’t exist yet46:29 – How putting weapons in space changes things48:13 – Golden Dome issues they wish were fixed today50:24 – What everyday Americans don't understand about the Golden Dome53:01 – Measurable outcomes that the Golden Dome works54:56 – What Mike and David do for fun• Show notes •Elara Nova’s website — https://elaranova.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Halen Mattison left SpaceX because Elon told him his vision was too long-term. He wanted to build the propellant infrastructure that would unlock Mars and everything between here and there, but the timeline didn't fit SpaceX's roadmap. So he started General Galactic to do it himself.His team is developing Genesis, a water electrolysis propulsion system that delivers hydrazine-level thrust and xenon-level efficiency using the safest, cheapest, most abundant propellant in the solar system. The company is targeting an orbital demonstration in 2026, with a long-term vision to operate refueling depots from LEO to Mars. Inside the episode:• Why the space industry's fear of new technology is creating a sitting-duck opportunityHow water electrolysis unlocks both near-term mobility services and long-term ISRU infrastructureWhat "specific impulse" actually means for mission economics and why it matters more than people thinkThe Starship refueling challenge and why cryogenic propellant depots will work at scaleSequencing from mobility-as-a-service to lunar fuel production to gas stations on MarsWhy consensus-following investors miss the most ambitious bets and how to tell the contrarian story • Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:11 – When did Halen decide to start his own company?02:18 – What did Halen do at SpaceX?02:59 – Deciding moment to devote to a career in aerospace05:16 – The current state and trajectory of Starship07:53 – What is General Galactic building?09:50 – General Galactic's products and end goals12:12 – General Galactic's perspective shift on mobility in space16:31 – Architecture vs the current market offerings21:39 – Why is now the time to build a water electrolysis system?24:27 – Genesis25:42 – Hardware in space26:19 – What would a General Galactic demonstration mission look like?27:13 – What would product 1 look like?28:15 – Mission capability unlocks and cost advantage30:56 – Offering a service31:27 – Origin and evolution of General Galactic34:59 – Space companies that sequence well outside of SpaceX36:06 – 4-year prediction if mobility gets adopted38:39 – Misunderstandings about Starship's refueling logistics42:01 – Where would General Galactic fit in the Starship ecosystem?43:25 – What a v0.1 Mars gas station would look like44:46 – How difficult is it to protect General Galactic's position with water electrolysis?46:22 – Lessons from being a founder49:30 – Sequencing • Show notes •General Galactic’s website — https://gengalactic.com/Halen’s socials — https://x.com/HalenMattisonMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Space has a power problem. Satellites need more electricity and better protection, yet solar arrays are slow to build and failure-prone, and shielding adds mass and complexity. Atomic-6 is tackling both sides at once.Our guest this week is Trevor Smith, founder and CEO of Atomic-6. His team is building Light Wing, a redeployable, mass-manufacturable solar array aimed at higher watts per kilogram and faster delivery, and Space Armor, an RF-permeable debris shield designed to stop hypervelocity impacts while preserving comms and resisting directed energy. The company’s first on-orbit hardware is slated for February 2026, and they’re pursuing multi-billion-dollar constellation opportunities alongside a long-term purchase agreement with a private space-station builder.Inside the episode:Why reliability, not just power density, wins satellite programsHow a space power gigafactory could reset constellation economicsWhat “cell-agnostic” really means for supply chain and performanceThe new “radome for space” capability and where it matters for defenseCislunar prospects, lunar-orbit data centers, and vertical solar towersLessons from working with Space Force and navigating dual-use fundingThe state of the U.S. industrial base and why solar arrays are a top supply-chain priority • Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:47 – How Atomic-6 got started03:06 – Building the power grid for space04:09 – Why is Atomic-6 building what it's building05:58 – Dollars per watt per kilo07:18 – Cell agnostic07:58 – How Trevor got into the space industry09:14 – Team construction at Atomic-609:49 – What type of people is Atomic-6 looking for?10:35 – Atomic-6's key product offering10:58 – Current customers and opportunities at Atomic-611:38 – Pipeline13:07 – Manufacturing scaling14:04 – How much is an operator spending on solar arrays?15:12 – Who would we go to today for building a satellite array and what would they be missing?16:33 – Space Armor19:44 – What is a radome?20:34 – Whipple Shield deployment21:11 – Significance of being transparent to radio signals21:41 – Terrestrial applications for the Whipple Shield23:24 – How Atomic-6 came to developing the Whipple Shield24:48 – Opportunity vs Light Wing and Space Armor25:38 – Defense traction with Space Armor26:52 – Atomic-6's business model29:17 – Milestones30:35 – Vertical integration32:34 – Other products that Atomic-6 is developing33:42 – Developments in advanced materials that will define architecture in space36:18 – What does success look like for Atomic-6 in 5 to 10 years?36:59 – What keeps Trevor up at night?38:05 – Government support40:17 – The legacy Trevor wants Atomic-6 to leave behind • Show notes •Atomic-6’s website — https://www.atomic-6.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Satellites are expensive and once launched, mostly untouchable.. That’s the problem Starfish Space is solving. The company is building Otter, a small, autonomous servicing vehicle capable of rendezvousing with, docking to, and moving other satellites in orbit.On this episode of Valley of Depth, I’m joined by Austin Link, co-founder of Starfish Space. Austin shares how a team of former Blue Origin engineers turned a bold idea into one of the most advanced orbital servicing programs in the world. We trace Starfish’s journey from recovering a tumbling spacecraft spinning 330 degrees per second, to preparing for the first commercial docking of an unprepared satellite in orbit. We also discuss:How Starfish closed the business case for on-orbit servicingWhat it takes to autonomously dock with a satellite moving faster than a bulletThe economics of life-extension and debris disposalLessons from the Otter Pup missionsThe dual-use future of orbital servicing for defense and resilienceThe long-term vision for a logistics layer in space…and more. • Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:59 – Starfish's mission03:02 – Why is now the time to be building on orbit satellite servicing04:44 – On orbit servicing with the rapid advancement of satellites07:29 – Why leave Blue Origin to start Starfish?09:18 – Convincing investors early on11:22 – Results from Starfish's first few missions13:40 – Why Starfish has fun with their names15:43 – How the team de-tumbled the satellite21:55 – Starfish's upcoming missions25:37 – When will Starfish start selling their systems?27:33 – Future business models and commercial vs government split30:08 – How Starfish helps customers price their ROI32:26 – Do regulations need to be placed in order for the market to thrive?35:14 – How Starfish differs from competitors36:29 – Current size of the satellite servicing market37:25 – Starfish's key strength40:19 – Insights on servicing from defense42:51 – What changes will happen if satellite servicing becomes routine?44:14 – Starfish's next phase in the business45:05 – Starfish's North Star46:19 – Overhyping the Kessler Syndrome47:41 – What does Austin do besides working on Starfish? • Show notes •Starfish’s website — https://www.starfishspace.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Spacecraft carry all kinds of sensors, but rarely the one humans rely on most: video. Despite offering the richest insight per watt, gram, and dollar, cameras have been largely absent from orbit.That’s what TRL11 is out to change. The company is building radiation-tolerant optics, edge computers that process and compress video in real time, and ground software that turns footage into operational awareness. On this episode of Valley of Depth, I’m joined by Nicolaas Verheem, founder and CEO of TRL11. Nicolaas shares how his journey from pioneering wireless video at Teradek, work that won both technical Academy and Emmy Awards, led him to ask why space was still flying blind. We trace TRL11’s path from early in-orbit demos to commercial traction with operators and defense, and dig into how edge intelligence and video awareness could transform the space economy. We also discuss:• Why video is the “missing sensor” in space• Lessons from TRL11’s first orbital missionsThe three core use cases: health monitoring, mission awareness, and mission enablement• How software, not hardware, creates a lasting moat in space video• The long-term vision of human-like awareness in space…and more. • Chapters •01:03 – Nicol and Starwars and Startrek03:10 – Nicol winning an Academy Award and an Emmy04:14 – Nicol at Teradek05:13 – How Teradek inspired Nicol's current company TRL1106:30 – How video applies to the space industry09:41 – Why do we need video and what problem does it solve?12:56 – A ring camera for space17:06 – The story behind the company name19:32 – TRL11's current product offerings21:43 – Showing the operator what matters on screen24:53 – How do you build a space camera?26:45 – What TRL11 has learned in their early orbit tests29:06 – TRL11's primary first customers32:25 – Making the case for investors36:45 – Should every spacecraft have video onboard?38:03 – The importance of video for inspiration40:03 – Misunderstandings when it comes to video from partners, investors, and customers41:10 – Lessons Nicol learned building a company in the space industry42:42 – Fundraising at TRL1144:26 – Legacy and product evolution • Show notes •TRL11’s website — https://www.trl11.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Smallsats have defined the last decade of space, but their limitations are clear: low power, limited throughput, and fragile unit economics. K2 Space is betting on the opposite. The company is building mega class and giga class satellites, platforms measured in tons rather than kilograms, that deliver unprecedented power, capacity, and resilience. By vertically integrating 80 percent of their systems in house, K2 is cutting costs by an order of magnitude and making industrial scale spacecraft a reality.On this episode of Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Neel Kunjur, cofounder and CTO of K2 Space. Neel traces the journey from early Slack messages about the promise of MEO to a 160 person team building the largest commercial satellites ever attempted. He shares how K2 has reimagined subsystems like reaction wheels, high voltage power, and 20 kW propulsion to unlock entirely new mission architectures in MEO, GEO, and beyond. We also discuss:Why MEO is such an underexplored orbital regimeThe engineering breakthroughs behind large reaction wheels and high voltage power systemsHow stackable satellites change constellation designThe long term vision for space infrastructure, from in space compute to energy harvesting…and more.  • Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:56 – What's happened in the past two years since K2 has been on the pod02:13 – The thesis behind K203:51 – What does Neel mean by aperture?04:40 – Why do satellites need to grow in size and power?06:59 – The rise in Medium Earth Orbit (MEO) chatter08:49 – Why did Neel leave SpaceX and start K2 with his brother?12:04 – Building K2 for a post Starship world14:10 – Current and future K2 offerings15:32 – 20 Kilowatts vs a small LEO satellite17:10 – Giga-scale satellite18:40 – How K2 is able to deliver $15m satellite21:13 – K2's innovations so far23:01 – Engineering problems that larger satellite builders have to worry about25:08 – K2's propulsion solution to get MEO28:11 – Engineering for Starship's current MEO blindspot29:18 – Neel's prediction on Starship's refueling rollout30:14 – Innovation through simplicity33:24 – How is K2 hiring the talent for their niche challenges35:52 – How big is K2's team today36:43 – Key takeaways from K2's first mission38:22 – Mission Gravitas39:59 – Orbit race40:39 – Mission Gravitas: Commercial or DoD?41:33 – K2's scaling plans43:03 – Customized vs standardized45:17 – Overspec'd by design45:40 – Will K2's success spur more competition?47:23 – Will satellites become robust, industrial hardware?48:48 – What's enabled by these large platforms?51:01 – The paradigm shift happening in engineering for space52:42 – Will SpaceX own LEO?55:05 – The name and branding behind K2 • Show notes •K2’s website — http://www.k2space.com/K2’s socials — https://x.com/K2SpaceCoMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com