The Maneuver Gap, with Kerry Wisnosky (CEO of Quantum Space)

Kerry Wisnosky believes the future of space power will be decided by maneuverability. As satellites remain largely static, Quantum Space is building the infrastructure to move, persist, and operate across orbits, from LEO to cislunar space.The company is developing Ranger, a six-metric-ton, high-delta-V spacecraft designed to operate for up to 15 years, host and deploy payloads, maneuver freely between orbits, and function as a refueling node. By combining chemical and electric propulsion into a single multimode system, Quantum aims to deliver both high-impulse mobility and long-duration efficiency—turning spacecraft from disposable assets into persistent infrastructure.Inside the episode:Why space remains a static domain and why maneuverability is the next decisive advantageHow Ranger reframes satellites from disposable assets into long-lived infrastructureThe strategic importance of fuel in orbit and why refueling changes mission economicsWhy multimode propulsion is the “holy grail” for mobility across orbitsHow life extension in GEO becomes the first commercial wedgeWhat zone defense in space could mean for missile defense architecturesWhy Quantum was early to the market and why demand is finally catching up • Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:45 – From Millennium to Quantum Space02:56 – Key products at Millennium03:57 – Evolution of Quantum's vision over the years06:34 – Ranger13:41 – 15 years of operational life16:22 – Acquiring Phase Four22:25 – Orbital mobility23:37 – Ranger doubling as a fuel depot25:51 – Target customers for Ranger30:52 – Interceptors in space for Golden Dome33:52 – Quantum Space's competitive edge35:27 – Are other maneuverability companies viewing the problem the wrong way?37:18 – Quantum Space's launches39:24 – What does success look like for Quantum's first Ranger mission?40:21 – Scaling and manufacturing43:53 – Why should talent work at Quantum?45:14 – Quantum Space in 5 years47:35 – What did Kerry not expect while building Quantum?48:49 – When is Quantum's next launch? • Show notes •Quantum Space’s website — https://www.quantumspace.us/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Lt. Gen. (Ret.) David “Abu” Nahom spent decades defending the American homeland, from commanding Alaska Command and the 11th Air Force to shaping Air Force budgets and strategy as the A8. Mike Dickey started his career in the original Strategic Defense Initiative, helped build the USSF and now advises companies and government leaders on the future of national security. Together, they unpack the realities behind Golden Dome: what it is, what it isn’t, and why it may be the most complex defense undertaking of our time.Inside the episode:Why homeland defense is no longer a Cold War problem and why threats across all domains demand a fundamentally new architectureWhat it actually takes to detect, track, and intercept advanced weapons, from ballistic missiles to hypersonics to low-observable cruise missilesHow command & control is the real bottleneck, and why BMC2 will define the success or failure of Golden DomeWhy integrating F-35s, space sensors, legacy radars, and new AI systems is a social-engineering challenge as much as a technical oneThe role of startups in a mission where “move fast and break things” collides with the reality of life-or-death stakesWhy public perception lags far behind the actual threat picture and what Americans get wrong about homeland defenseThe technologies on the horizon that could completely reshape missile defense in the next decade• Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:41 – David's and Mike's Backgrounds04:01 – How Elara Nova has grown since last episode05:17 – What makes Golden Dome different?08:00 – How exposed has the US been to missile threats?10:53 – What is the Golden Dome supposed to look like today?14:02 – Not reinventing the wheel16:38 – Capabilities of today and tomorrow23:00 – How new modes of launch change missile defense24:57 – Integrating new solutions with current systems27:15 – Golden Dome isn't a technology problem29:41 – How much does ego play into the social engineering challenge of the Golden Dome?32:47 – Unable to fail in this startup-driven golden age of space and defense tech36:11 – Risks of the Golden Dome budget ballooning39:29 – The deterrence calculus42:12 – How will Golden Dome interface with our allies44:20 – Exciting defense tech being developed or doesn’t exist yet46:29 – How putting weapons in space changes things48:13 – Golden Dome issues they wish were fixed today50:24 – What everyday Americans don't understand about the Golden Dome53:01 – Measurable outcomes that the Golden Dome works54:56 – What Mike and David do for fun• Show notes •Elara Nova’s website — https://elaranova.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Halen Mattison left SpaceX because Elon told him his vision was too long-term. He wanted to build the propellant infrastructure that would unlock Mars and everything between here and there, but the timeline didn't fit SpaceX's roadmap. So he started General Galactic to do it himself.His team is developing Genesis, a water electrolysis propulsion system that delivers hydrazine-level thrust and xenon-level efficiency using the safest, cheapest, most abundant propellant in the solar system. The company is targeting an orbital demonstration in 2026, with a long-term vision to operate refueling depots from LEO to Mars. Inside the episode:• Why the space industry's fear of new technology is creating a sitting-duck opportunityHow water electrolysis unlocks both near-term mobility services and long-term ISRU infrastructureWhat "specific impulse" actually means for mission economics and why it matters more than people thinkThe Starship refueling challenge and why cryogenic propellant depots will work at scaleSequencing from mobility-as-a-service to lunar fuel production to gas stations on MarsWhy consensus-following investors miss the most ambitious bets and how to tell the contrarian story • Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:11 – When did Halen decide to start his own company?02:18 – What did Halen do at SpaceX?02:59 – Deciding moment to devote to a career in aerospace05:16 – The current state and trajectory of Starship07:53 – What is General Galactic building?09:50 – General Galactic's products and end goals12:12 – General Galactic's perspective shift on mobility in space16:31 – Architecture vs the current market offerings21:39 – Why is now the time to build a water electrolysis system?24:27 – Genesis25:42 – Hardware in space26:19 – What would a General Galactic demonstration mission look like?27:13 – What would product 1 look like?28:15 – Mission capability unlocks and cost advantage30:56 – Offering a service31:27 – Origin and evolution of General Galactic34:59 – Space companies that sequence well outside of SpaceX36:06 – 4-year prediction if mobility gets adopted38:39 – Misunderstandings about Starship's refueling logistics42:01 – Where would General Galactic fit in the Starship ecosystem?43:25 – What a v0.1 Mars gas station would look like44:46 – How difficult is it to protect General Galactic's position with water electrolysis?46:22 – Lessons from being a founder49:30 – Sequencing • Show notes •General Galactic’s website — https://gengalactic.com/Halen’s socials — https://x.com/HalenMattisonMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Space has a power problem. Satellites need more electricity and better protection, yet solar arrays are slow to build and failure-prone, and shielding adds mass and complexity. Atomic-6 is tackling both sides at once.Our guest this week is Trevor Smith, founder and CEO of Atomic-6. His team is building Light Wing, a redeployable, mass-manufacturable solar array aimed at higher watts per kilogram and faster delivery, and Space Armor, an RF-permeable debris shield designed to stop hypervelocity impacts while preserving comms and resisting directed energy. The company’s first on-orbit hardware is slated for February 2026, and they’re pursuing multi-billion-dollar constellation opportunities alongside a long-term purchase agreement with a private space-station builder.Inside the episode:Why reliability, not just power density, wins satellite programsHow a space power gigafactory could reset constellation economicsWhat “cell-agnostic” really means for supply chain and performanceThe new “radome for space” capability and where it matters for defenseCislunar prospects, lunar-orbit data centers, and vertical solar towersLessons from working with Space Force and navigating dual-use fundingThe state of the U.S. industrial base and why solar arrays are a top supply-chain priority • Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:47 – How Atomic-6 got started03:06 – Building the power grid for space04:09 – Why is Atomic-6 building what it's building05:58 – Dollars per watt per kilo07:18 – Cell agnostic07:58 – How Trevor got into the space industry09:14 – Team construction at Atomic-609:49 – What type of people is Atomic-6 looking for?10:35 – Atomic-6's key product offering10:58 – Current customers and opportunities at Atomic-611:38 – Pipeline13:07 – Manufacturing scaling14:04 – How much is an operator spending on solar arrays?15:12 – Who would we go to today for building a satellite array and what would they be missing?16:33 – Space Armor19:44 – What is a radome?20:34 – Whipple Shield deployment21:11 – Significance of being transparent to radio signals21:41 – Terrestrial applications for the Whipple Shield23:24 – How Atomic-6 came to developing the Whipple Shield24:48 – Opportunity vs Light Wing and Space Armor25:38 – Defense traction with Space Armor26:52 – Atomic-6's business model29:17 – Milestones30:35 – Vertical integration32:34 – Other products that Atomic-6 is developing33:42 – Developments in advanced materials that will define architecture in space36:18 – What does success look like for Atomic-6 in 5 to 10 years?36:59 – What keeps Trevor up at night?38:05 – Government support40:17 – The legacy Trevor wants Atomic-6 to leave behind • Show notes •Atomic-6’s website — https://www.atomic-6.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Satellites are expensive and once launched, mostly untouchable.. That’s the problem Starfish Space is solving. The company is building Otter, a small, autonomous servicing vehicle capable of rendezvousing with, docking to, and moving other satellites in orbit.On this episode of Valley of Depth, I’m joined by Austin Link, co-founder of Starfish Space. Austin shares how a team of former Blue Origin engineers turned a bold idea into one of the most advanced orbital servicing programs in the world. We trace Starfish’s journey from recovering a tumbling spacecraft spinning 330 degrees per second, to preparing for the first commercial docking of an unprepared satellite in orbit. We also discuss:How Starfish closed the business case for on-orbit servicingWhat it takes to autonomously dock with a satellite moving faster than a bulletThe economics of life-extension and debris disposalLessons from the Otter Pup missionsThe dual-use future of orbital servicing for defense and resilienceThe long-term vision for a logistics layer in space…and more. • Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:59 – Starfish's mission03:02 – Why is now the time to be building on orbit satellite servicing04:44 – On orbit servicing with the rapid advancement of satellites07:29 – Why leave Blue Origin to start Starfish?09:18 – Convincing investors early on11:22 – Results from Starfish's first few missions13:40 – Why Starfish has fun with their names15:43 – How the team de-tumbled the satellite21:55 – Starfish's upcoming missions25:37 – When will Starfish start selling their systems?27:33 – Future business models and commercial vs government split30:08 – How Starfish helps customers price their ROI32:26 – Do regulations need to be placed in order for the market to thrive?35:14 – How Starfish differs from competitors36:29 – Current size of the satellite servicing market37:25 – Starfish's key strength40:19 – Insights on servicing from defense42:51 – What changes will happen if satellite servicing becomes routine?44:14 – Starfish's next phase in the business45:05 – Starfish's North Star46:19 – Overhyping the Kessler Syndrome47:41 – What does Austin do besides working on Starfish? • Show notes •Starfish’s website — https://www.starfishspace.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Spacecraft carry all kinds of sensors, but rarely the one humans rely on most: video. Despite offering the richest insight per watt, gram, and dollar, cameras have been largely absent from orbit.That’s what TRL11 is out to change. The company is building radiation-tolerant optics, edge computers that process and compress video in real time, and ground software that turns footage into operational awareness. On this episode of Valley of Depth, I’m joined by Nicolaas Verheem, founder and CEO of TRL11. Nicolaas shares how his journey from pioneering wireless video at Teradek, work that won both technical Academy and Emmy Awards, led him to ask why space was still flying blind. We trace TRL11’s path from early in-orbit demos to commercial traction with operators and defense, and dig into how edge intelligence and video awareness could transform the space economy. We also discuss:• Why video is the “missing sensor” in space• Lessons from TRL11’s first orbital missionsThe three core use cases: health monitoring, mission awareness, and mission enablement• How software, not hardware, creates a lasting moat in space video• The long-term vision of human-like awareness in space…and more. • Chapters •01:03 – Nicol and Starwars and Startrek03:10 – Nicol winning an Academy Award and an Emmy04:14 – Nicol at Teradek05:13 – How Teradek inspired Nicol's current company TRL1106:30 – How video applies to the space industry09:41 – Why do we need video and what problem does it solve?12:56 – A ring camera for space17:06 – The story behind the company name19:32 – TRL11's current product offerings21:43 – Showing the operator what matters on screen24:53 – How do you build a space camera?26:45 – What TRL11 has learned in their early orbit tests29:06 – TRL11's primary first customers32:25 – Making the case for investors36:45 – Should every spacecraft have video onboard?38:03 – The importance of video for inspiration40:03 – Misunderstandings when it comes to video from partners, investors, and customers41:10 – Lessons Nicol learned building a company in the space industry42:42 – Fundraising at TRL1144:26 – Legacy and product evolution • Show notes •TRL11’s website — https://www.trl11.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Smallsats have defined the last decade of space, but their limitations are clear: low power, limited throughput, and fragile unit economics. K2 Space is betting on the opposite. The company is building mega class and giga class satellites, platforms measured in tons rather than kilograms, that deliver unprecedented power, capacity, and resilience. By vertically integrating 80 percent of their systems in house, K2 is cutting costs by an order of magnitude and making industrial scale spacecraft a reality.On this episode of Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Neel Kunjur, cofounder and CTO of K2 Space. Neel traces the journey from early Slack messages about the promise of MEO to a 160 person team building the largest commercial satellites ever attempted. He shares how K2 has reimagined subsystems like reaction wheels, high voltage power, and 20 kW propulsion to unlock entirely new mission architectures in MEO, GEO, and beyond. We also discuss:Why MEO is such an underexplored orbital regimeThe engineering breakthroughs behind large reaction wheels and high voltage power systemsHow stackable satellites change constellation designThe long term vision for space infrastructure, from in space compute to energy harvesting…and more.  • Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:56 – What's happened in the past two years since K2 has been on the pod02:13 – The thesis behind K203:51 – What does Neel mean by aperture?04:40 – Why do satellites need to grow in size and power?06:59 – The rise in Medium Earth Orbit (MEO) chatter08:49 – Why did Neel leave SpaceX and start K2 with his brother?12:04 – Building K2 for a post Starship world14:10 – Current and future K2 offerings15:32 – 20 Kilowatts vs a small LEO satellite17:10 – Giga-scale satellite18:40 – How K2 is able to deliver $15m satellite21:13 – K2's innovations so far23:01 – Engineering problems that larger satellite builders have to worry about25:08 – K2's propulsion solution to get MEO28:11 – Engineering for Starship's current MEO blindspot29:18 – Neel's prediction on Starship's refueling rollout30:14 – Innovation through simplicity33:24 – How is K2 hiring the talent for their niche challenges35:52 – How big is K2's team today36:43 – Key takeaways from K2's first mission38:22 – Mission Gravitas39:59 – Orbit race40:39 – Mission Gravitas: Commercial or DoD?41:33 – K2's scaling plans43:03 – Customized vs standardized45:17 – Overspec'd by design45:40 – Will K2's success spur more competition?47:23 – Will satellites become robust, industrial hardware?48:48 – What's enabled by these large platforms?51:01 – The paradigm shift happening in engineering for space52:42 – Will SpaceX own LEO?55:05 – The name and branding behind K2 • Show notes •K2’s website — http://www.k2space.com/K2’s socials — https://x.com/K2SpaceCoMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

This episode is presented by L3Harris Technologies.On this special edition of Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Kristin Houston, President of Space Propulsion and Power Systems at L3Harris. Kristin leads the team responsible for propulsion and space power systems across Artemis and beyond, from the RS-25 main engines to the Gateway’s high-power electric propulsion system to Fission Surface Power (FSP) on the Moon. We dive into how Artemis II is shaping up, the role of SLS, and why nuclear power and propulsion may be the linchpin of America’s long-term space presence.We also discuss:What Artemis II is designed to prove, and why precision on Artemis I mattered so muchHow Artemis ties directly into national security and the new lunar race with ChinaFSP – what it is, why it matters, and why NASA is accelerating it nowNuclear propulsion: hype vs. physics, and how soon it could be operationalWhy maneuverability in space is becoming the next strategic advantageGolden Dome and how propulsion/power innovations fit into the architectureThe propulsion milestone Kristin wants to see in the next 10 years…and much more.Check out this Valley of Depth on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube.• Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:47 – Kristin's background03:47 – Why are we going back to the Moon?07:10 – State of the Artemis program09:28 – L3Harris's involvement in Artemis10:48 – What does success look like for Artemis 2?12:38 – Orbital maneuvers and landing14:35 – Lessons from Artemis I that's giving confidence into Artemis II15:45 – Artemis II readiness, risk, and pacing16:39 – What needs to go right in Artemis II18:55 – The need for the SLS rocket19:57 – The criticism of the SLS22:28 – Could Starship and the SLS coexist?24:33 – National security ROI for sustained Lunar operations27:02 – Are we underestimating China?27:40 – What if China gets to the Moon first?31:13 – The question about power34:59 – Minimum power requirements on the Moon35:45 – Government's renewed focus on nuclear36:57 – How far away are we from nuclear propulsion?39:27 – Maneuverability in space42:20 – Defense focused propulsion systems42:57 – Golden Dome46:11 – Propulsion milestones • Show notes •L3Harris’s website — https://www.l3harris.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Some environments are simply too harsh for traditional power sources. Solar panels fail in darkness, batteries die quickly, and diesel can’t reach. That’s where Zeno Power comes in. The company is pioneering nuclear batteries, compact systems that recycle radioactive waste into safe, reliable power for years at a time.On this episode of Valley of Depth, I’m joined by Tyler Bernstein, co-founder and CEO of Zeno Power. We trace the journey from a Vanderbilt classroom project to a venture-backed company with $70M in private capital, $60M+ in NASA and DoD contracts, and a working nuclear prototype. Tyler shares how Zeno is positioning itself to power critical frontier operations: autonomous systems on the seabed, satellites in orbit, and landers on the Moon.We also discuss:How a nuclear battery works and why Strontium-90 is Zeno’s starting fuelWhat it takes to safely turn nuclear waste into usable powerThe use cases that only nuclear batteries can unlockThe business model: selling units vs. power-as-a-service vs. revenue sharingNavigating the unique regulatory path for radioisotope systemsThe risks of scaling a nuclear startup…and much more.This episode is brought to you by World Space Business Week, taking place September 15–19 in Paris. WSBW is one of the leading annual gatherings for the global space industry, bringing together executives, investors, government officials, and innovators from across commercial, defense, and satellite sectors. Learn more at wsbw.com. • Chapters •00:00 – Intro & WSBW Ad01:26 – Tyler's background and how he came to co-found Zeno Power04:13 – Is it normal for Vanderbilt to support their students' ideas and startups?05:11 – Key mentors/validators of Tyler's business07:06 – Zeno's products and $70M fundraising09:12 – What is a nuclear battery and how does it work?12:40 – How Zeno is carefully handling Strontium-9014:39 – Future use cases for Strontium-9015:53 – Advantages of nuclear battery18:09 – Energy limits and stacking19:30 – DoD and commercial customers21:20 – Future business model22:52 – How does Tyler think about pricing?24:31 – How does regulation look for nuclear batteries?27:00 – Will there be meaningful change coming out of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC)?29:03 – Competition31:25 – Turning nuclear waste into valuable power34:12 – The future of nuclear waste disposal37:47 – Biggest technical risks Zeno is combating40:46 – Scaling the Stirling generator41:49 – Zeno's testing infrastructure43:08 – What keeps Tyler up at night47:16 – Is Tyler optimistic about the future of energy in the US?48:41 – Zeno's legacy in 20 years • Show notes •Zeno Power’s website — https://www.zenopower.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Continuous human presence in orbit has been a cornerstone of U.S. leadership in space for 25 years. But recent changes to NASA’s Commercial LEO Destinations (CLD) strategy have Pam Melroy—former NASA Deputy Administrator and shuttle commander—sounding the alarm. She warns that shifting to short-duration missions risks ceding leadership in LEO and undermining U.S. readiness for Mars, opening the door for China to take the mantle.On this episode of Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Pam to talk about the state of NASA, the future of space stations, and why requirements, the often overlooked backbone of program management, will determine whether the U.S. stays ahead. We trace her career from test pilot to shuttle commander to senior leadership at NASA, DARPA, and the FAA, and unpack what it means to build an architecture that actually holds together from LEO to Mars.We also discuss:Why continuous presence in LEO is a national security and leadership issueHow the CLD Phase 2 shift could reshape investor and partner confidenceThe role of SpaceX and Starship in the Moon–Mars roadmapWhat it takes to write requirements that don’t doom a program from the startPam’s vision of LEO, the Moon, and Mars in 2045…and much more.This episode is brought to you by World Space Business Week, taking place September 15–19 in Paris. WSBW is one of the leading annual gatherings for the global space industry, bringing together executives, investors, government officials, and innovators from across commercial, defense, and satellite sectors. Learn more at wsbw.com.• Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:55 – WSBW Ad01:21 – The key to Pam's success03:32 – The state of NASA05:01 – NASA in the next decade if we stay in our current trajectory06:58 – Why is maintaining a human presence in LEO so important?10:18 – The changing CLD Strategy15:29 – Cost and impact of continuous vs 30-day missions18:01 – NASA's requirements23:50 – Disintegration of requirements27:32 – Impact of the shift in CLD strategy29:52 – Why go back to the Moon?31:35 – Does the media understand the impact of landing on the Moon and Mars?35:19 – Why do 30-day missions make sense37:53 – Will China beat us back to the Moon?41:41 – Cultural impact if China beats us to the Moon45:17 – Does the Artemis program have the right architecture to succeed?47:46 – Is NASA too dependent on SpaceX?52:47 – How much should the U.S. be interested56:02 – What did leading the space shuttle teach Pam about leadership?57:54 – Inspiring the next generation of space exploration58:46 – Prediction 20 years later01:01:37 – Aliens? • Show notes •Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com