EP 232: Attachment and Mothering through Life’s Seasons with Bethany Saltman

In this episode, Kimberly and Bethany discuss their reflections and experiences of attachment and mothering their adult children. Bethany describes changes in how she viewed herself and parenting while her daughter became an adult herself while Kimberly shares her experiences mothering her daughter who is about to move out of their home for the first time. They share challenges, frustrations, and confusing moments around their attachment and parenting, particularly as they age themselves. As most parenting content focuses on the early years, this conversation reveals the nuances of what attachment parenting actually is and how they are navigating its challenges while parenting their grown daughters.   Bio Bethany Saltman is a literary agent, mother, wife, zen practitioner, and author of “Strange Situation: A Mother’s Journey Into the Science of Attachment.” She has an extensive background in writing, teaching, publishing, and devotes her time as a literary agent helping people put their stories into the world. She is a long-time friend of Kimberly’s and a repeat podcast guest.   What She Shares: –Different kinds of attachment and the adult  attachment test –Mothering through seasons –Generational differences of parenting –Navigating challenges of mothering adult children   What You’ll Hear: –Different types of attachment –Securely attached is independent –Develop through creativity and exploration with secure base –Flexibility and response with parenting –Behavior versus attachment –Parameters for boundaries when discussing children publicly –Posting children on social media –Attachment research with adults –Generational leaps around attachment and development –Mothering through perimenopause –Hormonal changes through mothering and phases –Similarities between toddler and teenage years –Experiencing the second half of life while mothering –Values shifting through mothering phases –Cultural differences around parenting young adults –Leaving versus staying the nest  –Generational differences of survival wiring –Frustrations of parenting adults –Self-actualization leaving parents’ house –Adult attachment interview protocol –Mixed feelings shows secure attachment in adulthood –Importance of rupture and repair instead of only positive –Spirituality, religion, and parenting   Resources Website: https://www.bethanysaltman.com/ IG: @bethany_saltman   Class Sign up for Jagamama Summer School here: https://kimberlyannjohnson.com/jagamama/  

Summary In this episode, Kimberly interviews her favorite podcast guest–her daughter Cece! Cece’s last podcast episode was four years ago, so she shares her reflections around graduating highschool, her college application process, and her experiences as being Kimberly’s daughter. She also turns the mic back to Kimberly to ask Kimberly her own reflections on life’s various stages, single parenting, and what she wants her work to look like after Cece flies the nest.    Bio Cece, Kimberly's daughter, is a 17 year old high school graduate and vocalist.   What She Shares: –Cece’s college application process –Reflections on being Kimberly’s daughter –Decisions around college and major –Cece interviews Kimberly   What You’ll Hear: –Graduating highschool –How Cece feels being apart of Kimberly’s “brand” –Why Cece wants to go to college –Highly academic highschool –Where Cece will attend college –Applying to various colleges –Ranking safety schools, match schools, and reach schools –Writing college application essays –Cultural neuroses of applying to colleges –Kimberly’s experience of college applications –Reflections on being an only child –Wanting a sibling –Being the focus as an only child –Thoughts on being Kimberly’s daughter –How Cece feels leaving home –Excited about moving to Scotland –Navigating the current political climate –Kimberly’s reflections about being a maiden –What Kimberly finds hard about single parenting –What Kimberly would do differently as a parent –Kimberly’s favorite part of being Cece’s mom –How being Cece’s mom informs Kimberly’s work –Parenting phases that Kimberly misses –Kimberly’s work as fringe and niche –How Kimberly views her future work –What it’s like to be a teenager right now –How Cece handles having a phone –Cece’s advice for other parents –Cece’s music update –Cece’s offers support for college application process   Resources Email: [email protected] IG: @ceciliajvieira  

In this episode, Kimberly switches roles to be in the interviewee seat herself while Elisa asks and reflects about Kimberly’s Mothering the Bones retreats. They just finished one retreat in Wales and reflect on how moving and transformative it was for the gathering to be holding one another. They also discuss the origins of Mothering the Bones–how Kimberly came to this work and why she feels it is the apex of all of her expertise, knowledge, and purpose.   Bio Elisa Mary Haggarty is an Executive and Conscious Leadership Coach, host of The Soul Podcast, and fellow jaguar. She coaches leaders to become more aware of how they are operating and the impact of how they relate to those around them through Conscious Leadership. She also has a diverse background in somatics and holistics and nutritional wellness. She is based in NYC but serves globally.   What She Shares: –Mothering the Bones origins –Nuances of session work in community –Non-traditional approaches to gathering –Making space for spontaneous emergence   What You’ll Hear: –One week out from Mothering the Bones retreat –Level of intimacy and vulnerability in Kimberly’s work –Why Kimberly does Mothering the Bones –Kimberly’s background in body work and nervous systems –Session work in group –Elise’s experience at Ghost Ranch  –Lay practitioner defined –Taking care of people, people of place, and the land –Range of grief and joy –Meta-level analysis not needed when sessions occur –Tactile practice has emerged –Next step beyond ROLFing and body-work –Holding the pelvis and witnessing –Decentralizing role of practitioner –Importance of witness space as recipient –Conscientiousness about care and support –Not all trauma work is intense –Allow the body to be in blue –Distributing weight of session with multiple people –Pairing experts with novices –Witnessing a freeze –Repairing with other women’s presence –Resourced to receive, give, and listen –Burnout and unsustainability in community work –Impossibility of birth work and community care in these times –Value of midwives and second-generation births –Upcoming book for Mothering the Bones work –Touch, touching the pelvis non-sexually, sitting, consent –Bringing whole self to bodywork –Radical touch –Listening, presence, story –Value of artistry in trauma-work –Non-traditional ways of learning –Giving space for emerging creativity to come out –Sexuality and birth require emergence and spontaneity –Being responsive to group’s needs –Loosening control in community gatherings –Art of embodiment –Opportunities to be spontaneous and surprised –Tending to place and land of retreats –Depth and saturation of place  –Different approaches to in-person versus online –Bodies that need held the most –Bone holding practice for presence and healing   Resources Website: https://www.elisamaryhaggarty.com/ IG: @elisamaryhaggarty  

In this episode, Kimberly and Alex discuss his extensive background in working with children on the Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD). He spent much of those years taking a non-traditional approach from just behavioral to prioritizing fun and community. This work led him to keenly understanding the importance of local agriculture, nutrition, and the gut-brain connection, and eventually he began working as an animal butcher and supporting his wife’s work, The Wild Nutritionist. Aspects of their discussion are connected through the thread of the importance of holistic care for ASD individuals as well as local farming, nutrition, and the gut-brain connection.   Bio Alex Johnson is a father, butcher, former autism specialist, husband of Kate Pope, The Wild Nutritionist, and long-term friend of Kimberly’s. His background in theater studies, and then psychology, led him to working with children on the Autism Spectrum Disorder for over a decade. Understanding the needs of this population then helped him transition to regenerative agriculture and animal butchery.    What He Shares: –Working with children on the Autism Spectrum Disorder –How and why ASD has changed in recent years –Harms and limitations of diagnoses and labels –Transitioning to regenerative agriculture and butchery –Prioritizing community through local farming   What You’ll Hear: –How Alex began working with kids –Studied theater and psychology –Role play and autism in 2010 –How insurance changed autism  –In home and in community teaching to kids with ASD –Bringing families together with potlucks –DSM-5 refining definition of ASD –Disproportionately diagnosed in boys versus girls –Severity ratings (1, 2, 3) of ASD –Issues with self-diagnoses –Performative vulnerability –Challenges in diagnosing ASD –Social, Communication, and Behavior  –Familial approaches to ASD and community –Neurodivergence and ASD labels –Limitations of checklists of diagnoses –Gut issues and ASD –Behavioral versus holistic and community care –Regenerative agriculture, nutrition, and ASD –Transitioning to animal butchery –Small-scale, mobile harvest operation  –Mobile Harvest Truck –Art of animal butchery and carrying traditions –Politics and farming –Community care in farming and rural areas –Nutritional needs for families –Getting kids involved in family nutrition –Importance of local farmers markets –Talking to local farmers –Buying seasonal produce –Harms of individual priorities versus community –Returning to community care   Resources Website: https://regenerativecookingschool.com/ IG: @wildnutrionist  

In this episode, Kimberly and Kathryn discuss Kathryn’s work in Jungian psychology, psychotherapy, embodiment, and body image. Kathryn walks us through her workbook which is designed to help women understand how much body image issues are distractions from feelings of anxiety and ambivalence about their lives. Instead, she describes how to create the capacity to unearth more deeply rooted thoughts, feelings, and sensations in our psyches and our bodies.   Bio Kathryn Holt, PhD, LCSW, is a depth psychologist and writer. She completed her PhD in Jungian/Archetypal Studies at Pacifica Graduate Institute and has an extensive background in long-term psychotherapy, feminist psychoanalytic group therapy, community ritual, dance and movement practices, intentional psychedelic work, and more. Her latest workbook “Overcoming Body Hatred: A Woman’s Guide to Healing Negative Body Image & Nurturing Self-Worth Using CBT & Depth Psychology” helps women identify their purpose, manage stress, change cultural messaging, and cultivate embodied presence.   What She Shares: –Body preoccupation as a defense –Cultural obsession with young and beauty –Building capacity for ambivalence  –Fostering emotional intelligence for ourselves and others –Approaches to our childrens’ body image issues   What You’ll Hear: –Writing dissertation a baby during pandemic –Publishing workbook from dissertation –Why Kimberly avoided body image discussions –Body preoccupation functioning as a defense –Issue of projection onto women’s bodies and suffering –Locating conditioning as inherited  –Self-sensing our own bodies  –Self-objectification and projection –What is under the fantasy of our ideal body image? –Body image work puts us into reality –Culture’s obsession with youth –Preparing for bodies changing and age –Fantasy that bodies are fixed means problems are fixed –Living with body dissatisfaction and preoccupation –Parenting girls and young women around body image –Listening, inhabiting, and growing with body changes –Defensiveness of body image decreasing intimacy with self –Distinguishing between thought versus physical sensation –Foundational psychological work with body image –Dialectical behavioral therapy and psycho-spiritual therapy –Jungian and spiritual psychology –Internal versus cultural  –Ending our delusions to be our full selves –Increasing tolerance for anxiety to get underneath it –Body ambivalence as inevitable –Accepting ambivalence in all areas of life –Inundated with images –Defenses keep us from the solutions –Fostering emotional intelligence for us and our children   Resources Website: https://www.kathryncholt.com/ IG: @dr.kathryncholt  

In this episode, Kimberly and Tyson discuss the magnitude of pornography including addiction, nervous system regulation, and recovery. Tyson describes his own personal journey being addicted to and then healing from porn addiction and how that informs his work with men and couples today. He discusses the prevalence of porn, how it functions with technology and AI, and how many men use it to either up-regulate or down-regulate their nervous systems. Rather than moralizing porn and porn addiction, Tyson describes how to find healing and freedom through channeling real life force as well as advice for women who may have partners or sons addicted to, or exposed to, pornography.   Bio Tyson Adams is a trauma-informed IFS men's coach, somatic bodyworker and psychedelic facilitator. After spending 20 years addicted to pornography, he outgrew it ten years ago and has found his passion and purpose in helping other men master their lifeforce energy. He also co-facilitates men's work leadership intensives and works with couples experiencing intimacy challenges. When he's not working you'll catch him on a rock wall or riding a slackline in sunny San Diego.   What He Shares: –His own addiction and healing from porn –The normalization and prevalence of porn –Porn and the nervous system –Advice for women and mothers –How to heal from porn addiction   What You’ll Hear: –Tyson’s first introduction to porn at early age –Boyhood innocence being fractured –Secrecy, shame, and hiding with internet porn –Joined fraternity in college –Porn chairman in fraternity –Normalization of porn and drinking –90 percent of porn has some form of violence –A third of internet searches is porn –Expecting partners to mimic porn content –Normalization of extreme sexual behaviors from porn –Highjacking nervous system –No age verification  –Comparing ourselves to AI models –War on nervous system and spiritual warfare –Installing browser blockers on children’s devices –Ages 8-9 typically first exposure to porn –BARK.us Blocker and search tracker –Importance of early conversations with children –Importance of community in these conversations for men and boys –Blind spot in mens’ groups around sex and sexuality –Inflation of power causing harm in mens’ groups –How and why Tyson ended porn addiction –Psychedelic use with studying pornography –Preys on trauma and normalizes behaviors  –Men using porn to activate energy and nervous system regulation –Women and porn addictions –Seminal fluid as a life force –Healthy number of ejaculation frequency  –Not moralizing porn addiction –Women blaming themselves for partner’s porn addiction –Seek therapy and trusted community help in partner’s addiction –Hope and healing is possible –Open communication and repair –Developing archetypes with sex worker –One on one work and IFS sessions –From thinking to feeling way to orgasm –Nervous system resetting with clients –Convergence of technology, porn, and psychedelics   Resources Tyson Adams' Website  IG: @tysonadams__  

Return guest Ash Robinson dives deep with Kimberly Ann Johnson into the challenges and opportunities for women in business amidst the current economic and technological climate. They discuss the role of AI on personal and professional life, the importance of financial stability, and the need for a clear vision and strategy, particularly for women. Ash emphasizes the significance of taking stock of one's current situation, identifying needs, and focusing on sustainable growth. They also touch on the role of professional resourcing, the balance between enduring and sacrificing, and the importance of community and support in achieving long-term goals. This Fall, they will be offering round 2 of the Mastermind for Women Entrepreneur, so look out for a sign-up announcement coming this August!   Bio Ash Robinsoon is the strategist standing behind many leaders who are doing their big work. From Ash: “I’m a wife, mother of three, and deeply value my family life. As a CEO for most of my career, I spent most of my time creating and building, not consulting. I come from a family of entrepreneurs, and have personally worked in both product and service businesses across many industries, including early education, fitness, consumer products, online education, brick and mortar, franchise systems, and technology (software). My experience is a unique blend of professional management and entrepreneurship in both private and public companies. In 2014, I co-founded bon-fire for business, an experiential education and consulting firm that leverages strategic planning and human design to bridge the gap between untapped potential and business performance.  bon-fire is built on the idea that human beings are driven to create value, and that creating a path for harnessing talent and creating sustainable, thriving culture is the surest way to win in our networked age.  For the last 15 years, I have been a student of people and the teams and organizations they work on-- from my work in early education leading a team of hundreds to my own pursuit of optimal health and making a real difference in my work.  My passion and research in neuroscience, cognition, behavior change, and culture inform both the tools and approach we use in bon·fire.  I believe that your organization is actually a living system- highly adaptable, renewable, and self-organizing- which creates the possibility for a new level of both value creation and engagement with your vision and effective progress toward it. Business can be a bridge— igniting the spark of the human spirit and providing the structure in which a committed group of people make a positive impact.  My passion is for bringing people around the bon·fire to achieve extraordinary personal and business performance. I believe we have to build the world we want to belong to.”   What You’ll Hear After seeing so many women’s businesses thrive from  their masterminding course they wanted to craft another offering. Our finances are a huge part of our eros and how we express ourselves in the world What role does AI play in online and coaching businesses?  To build the world we want to belong to that’s  our work to do What does AI use tell us about our nervous systems Do one thing well Uncertainty creates instability When we are clear we can take more embodied action to what we are after. Existential dilemmas live in the parasympathetic nervous system Action comes from a healthy sympathetic drive How do you young people deal with a helpless parasympathetic response to the world? Mistaking business/system problems for personal problems  The how do wee accomplish the vision can be messy Finding clarity not all about a perfect strategy it’s also about being resourced and nourished Trying to take stock of the “As Is View” What do I need to get where I want to go? Reaching financial goals always has a weigh    Links Website: https://bon-fire.co/ IG: @ashrobinsoncalhoun  

In this episode, Kimberly Ann Johnson and filmmaker/producer Jackson Kroopf reflect on their respective experiences watching Best Picture Winner Anora. They discuss their contrasting experiences of seeing the films in theaters, what role sex and violence played in the film, and unpack some of what they were drawn to and troubled by in the film. And while they both found the hedonism in the film uncomfortable, the film's ending landed, particularly in its portrayal of power dynamics, intimate rapport, and the broken fantasies that emerge in pursuit of the American dream. Along the way, they consider to what extent the film’s success hinged on a desensitized audience and what that might say about where we find ourselves culturally when it comes to the female body, our nervous systems, and sexuality. If you’d like to dive deeper into these topics, consider signing up for Kimberly’s upcoming course Activate Your Inner Jaguar: Movement, Meditation & The Female Nervous System.   What You’ll Hear Why Kimberly walked out the first time she saw it. A consideration of how sex and violence functioned in the film. What commentary is the film making about the nature of sex work? The erotic vs. the pornographic What is the moral center of the film? What role does comedy play in the film? Sadness around desensitization in our culture The desire for representations of sexuality that are connected, off-script, non-generic Representations of sexuality on a woman’s own terms The fantasy of the American Dream falling apart Old world vs. new world when it comes to 1st and 2nd generation immigrants Is there any worth in bearing witness to extreme hedonism Can cinema re-sensitize us? Does violence in films reflect what’s in the collective or determine what’s in the collective? What happens when couples more openly discuss their sexual preferences? Can repair happen if a negative sexual experience takes place with a partner? Longing for seeing representations of moral men outside of "hero" roles Links Sign up for the course Activate Your Inner Jaguar: Movement, Meditation & The Female Nervous System here.

In this episode, Kimberly Ann Johnson is joined by journalist, and fellow Jaguar, Kristin Butler to discuss the case of Amanda Palmer and Neil Gaiman: a celebrity couple who are currently both facing charges around Gaiman’s ongoing sexual misconduct. Kimberly and Kristin share their own personal reactions to the case, as well as the way the reporting on the story reveals common challenges for women dealing with fallout from sexual boundary rupture, particularly fawning. They explore the complexities of boundary violations, the impact of the #BelieveSurvivors movement on men, and the psychological responses for women searching for agency and empowerment post boundary rupture. The conversation touches on the broader implications of sexual abuse, the role of social media, and the importance of Activate Your Inner Jaguar work in empowering individuals to recognize and assert their boundaries. They discuss the power of embodied consent and the challenges of navigating gray areas in sexual interactions, as well as circumstances where structural power and interpersonal power fluctuate in relationships between men and women.   What They Discuss? Trigger warnings and disclaimers in journalism Fawning between young women and older men who abuse their power What is the journalistic responsibilities of storytelling and reporting around sexual boundaries An in depth consideration of Tortoise Media’s podcast series Master: the allegations against Neil Gaiman Fawning when the threat is not front of you What happens when your flight response doesn’t activate? How does our nervous system respond to a boundary rupture? Tendencies to blame oneself after a sexual boundary rupture Self-Gaslighting What’s a trauma loop? What is compelling me to enter certain sexual situations? How does activate your inner jaguar empower women? What is the responsibility women have to their own nervous systems and for their behavior? The complexity of #BelieveSurvivors What is too overprotective for a parent? Is it safe to be a sex positive parent? How do highly publicized extremes impact sexual norms? How does virtual socialization impact our in person interactions? How does emotional support from AI impact our relationships It’s become normalized to for men and women to degrade/insult men  The quieter forms of anti-male bias How does structural power and relative power play out between men and women? How does power play out in everyday relationships? The power of embodied boundaries   Links Sign up for Activate Your Inner Jaguar: Movement, Meditation, and The Female Nervous System here - Early Bird price ends May 2nd

In this deep dive into menopause and elderhood, Kimberly and Kate Codrington discuss how they see their inter-generational work with women around self-care and cultural work. Kate’s book The Second Spring: The Self-Care Guide to Menopause and her more recent The Perimenopause Journal have made an indelible impact as Kimberly transitioned to the other side of the menopause hill. Two women, in their second spring, consider their responsibilities to women in various cycles of womanhood. They explore the impact of teachers, trauma, and the digital age on women, highlighting the need for resilience, play, and the ability to hold paradoxes. The discussion also touches on the importance of role models, the ever-changing dynamics of female elders, and the significance of embodied compassion in doing work in the women’s wellness and healthcare fields.   Bio Kate’s mission is to change the way we regard menopause and show how we can relax into our own, inner authority through our cyclical nature, deep body intelligence and menopause process. Life around and within is always communicating with us and her passion is for the ‘soft animal body’, the magic of the liminal, and the potential of emergent processes. Kate refuses to take herself too seriously and tries to never take on anything that is not pleasurable and delicious. She is a menstrual and menopause mentor, speaker, workshop facilitator, writer, podcaster and have been a therapist for more than 30 years.  She is also an artist currently weaving textiles, words, story and stitch. She’s in her second spring, which means post-menopause, and has deep gratitude for the education that the menopause process has gifted her. The Perimenopause Journal is now available at your favourite booksellers and my first book Second Spring: the self-care guide to menopause was published by HarperCollins 2022. What You’ll Hear The responsibility of female elders Accountability, compassion and intention Setting around the journey to menopause How does post-perimenopause impact mother/daughter relationships What is the purpose of elders? The power of some worldly detachment Michael Mead’s “Growing Downwards” Embracing different styles and adornments as we age, reflecting on the changes in the body and preferences. The importance of being playful and expressive in one's choices, regardless of age or societal expectations. The intersection of joy and pleasure with healing Competition between women in the wellness and healthcare field   Links Website: https://www.katecodrington.co.uk/ IG: @kate_codrington The Perimenopause Journal Activate Your Inner Jaguar: Sex Edition - Get on the Waitlist here