The AI End Game: Two-Year-Olds vs. AI with Alison Gopnik

Timnit Gebru founded the Distributed AI Research Institute after her high-profile exit from Google’s Ethical AI team. She’s been a vocal critic of the systemic lack of diversity in learning models and the need for more inclusion in the space. Her view is that because AI so heavily relies on human input, it largely mirrors pervasive biases inherent in society. What needs to be done to change that? She joins WITHpod to discuss what, in her view, large language models are missing. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Artificial intelligence is revolutionizing virtually every facet of our lives. While there’s a lot of doom and gloom predictions, what does a future look like if we’re more intentional about using AI to actually better lives? We’re sharing a recording of Chris and the New York Times’ Ezra Klein’s discussion at the Center for American Progress 2026 CAP IDEAS conference. They discuss what a new approach to artificial intelligence might look like–one intended to maximize AI’s benefits for the public good. And for more on AI, be sure to check out "WITHpod: The AI End Game," our new special series all about the revolutionary impact of AI, right here on the WITHpod feed.  Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Tech billionaires love to claim that artificial intelligence is getting smarter by the day. But according to cognitive scientist and UC Berkeley professor Alison Gopnik, a typical two-year-old routinely outsmarts the most advanced AI models. She joins WITHpod to discuss how children vs. AI learn and why AI, in many cases, still falls behind human capabilities.   Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Should we think of AI as a co-intelligence and digital coworker rather than just a chatbot? Ethan Mollick, a professor at Wharton and author of numerous books including the New York Times bestseller “Co-Intelligence: Living and Working with AI,” says so. He joins WITHpod to discuss the practical application, adoption, and transformative impact of AI on work. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The unified class project of billionaires is doing to white collar workers what globalization and neoliberalism did to blue collar workers. And artificial intelligence is only exacerbating this trend. Derek Thompson is a contributing writer for The Atlantic, co-author of “Abundance,” and has written extensively about the political power of the wealthy. He joins Chris Hayes to kick off our new special miniseries, The AI End Game: Power, Profit and Progress. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We’re excited to announce a new special WITHpod series, "The AI End Game: Power, Profit, and Progress." AI – and coverage of it – is everywhere. But what is artificial intelligence, really, beyond the buzzword? Each week, we’ll be joined by preeminent experts on AI and its effects to help make sense of this revolutionary time in history. The series will feature in-depth conversations with experts, including: The Atlantic journalist Derek Thompson; professor at Wharton and New York Times bestselling author Ethan Mollick, professor of psychology at UC Berkeley and member of the Berkeley AI Research Group Alison Gopnik; former co-lead of the Ethical Artificial Intelligence Team at Google and co-founder of Black in AI Timnit Gebru; philosopher and cognitive scientist David Chalmers; author, host of the “Better Offline” podcast and writer of the “Where's Your Ed At” newsletter, Ed Zitron; The New York Times journalist and author, Michael Pollan, and more.    Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The Jewish Bund was one of the most revolutionary political parties of the twentieth century. It aimed to build a socialist alternative to Zionism. Molly Crabapple is an artist and the author of the New York Times Bestseller “Here Where We Live is Our Country: The Story of the Jewish Bund,” which tells the story of the movement. She joins WITHpod to discuss how she found her way to this story, the rise and fall of the Jewish Labor Bund and more. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We’re sharing a bonus episode of Chris’ sit-down with New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani for a special edition of “All In.” In this town hall special, held at the Bronx Children's Museum, they discuss how Mamdani has been able to speak to people on both sides politically, his vision for the city and what it could mean for bigger national ideas. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We’re in an era where it seems like get rich quick schemes, quick money, and scams of all kinds are all around. It’s become a dominant feature and cultural force in American politics and American life more broadly. And cryptocurrency is the vector by which the Trump family is making vast sums of money. The rise of crypto and the harsh truth about this is the subject of a new documentary called “Everyone is Lying to You for Money.” Ben McKenzie is an actor and made his directorial debut with this film. He joins WITHpod to discuss why so much of life on the internet feels very scammy, his critique of crypto and more. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Things are pretty dire in Cuba right now as issues have ratcheted up to an almost unprecedented degree in the last few months. This is happening as President Trump says the U.S. may “stop by” Cuba after it finishes the war in Iran. Meanwhile, Cuba's president says they ‘would die' to defend against a U.S. invasion. Jon Lee Anderson is a staff writer at The New Yorker. He joins WITHpod to discuss the Trump administration’s threats to Cuba, how the current U.S. relationship with Cuba compares to the past and more. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.