How I Survived the Past 3 Years in Product Leadership (with Michael Luchen, Product Transformation Architect)

AI can solve Olympic-level math problems... and still fumble basic arithmetic. So what gives? According to Dhruv Batra, the answer lies in the “jaggedness” of intelligence—how AI can excel in some areas while completely breaking down in others. Dhruv, co-founder and Chief Scientist at Yutori, joins Hannah Clark to unpack the cognitive dissonance users feel when a model dazzles one moment and disappoints the next.They explore how user expectations—shaped by decades of intuitive UI patterns and human conversations—often collide with the underlying limits of AI systems. From browser agents and automation to long-term feedback loops and trust-building, this conversation is a candid look at what today’s AI can actually do (and where it’s still bluffing). If you’re building with AI or trying to scope what’s possible, this one will recalibrate your expectations—in a good way.Resources from this episode:Subscribe to The CPO Club newsletterConnect with Dhruv on LinkedInCheck out Dhruv’s website and Yutori

There’s a lot of smoke and mirrors in product right now—especially when it comes to AI. Shiny tools and slick prototypes are masquerading as production-ready solutions, and teams are feeling the pressure to keep up. But what happens when the hype outpaces the fundamentals?Hannah sits down with Matt Graney, CPO of Celigo, to talk about bad product plays in disguise—from vibe coding and no-code illusions to AI-fueled shortcuts that chip away at real product rigor. With decades in B2B product and a track record scaling teams, Matt offers a sharp, grounded view on what’s actually changing, what’s staying the same, and how to keep your product sense intact through it all.Resources from this episode:Subscribe to The CPO Club newsletterConnect with Matt on LinkedInCheck out Celigo

Every product team faces the same monster: conversion optimization. But in 2025, the game has changed. With AI agents influencing discovery and AEO (Answer Engine Optimization) reshaping how people (and machines) interpret messaging, teams are now marketing to both human and agentic audiences.In this episode, Hannah Clark sits down with Chris Silvestri, founder of Conversion Alchemy, to unpack how product teams can use psychology and UX insights to craft messaging that drives both adoption and retention. A former software engineer turned conversion strategist, Chris explains how understanding human decision-making—and now machine reasoning—can help product leaders turn features into irresistible outcomes.Resources from this episode:Subscribe to The CPO Club newsletterConnect with Chris on LinkedInCheck out Conversion Alchemy

Every product manager obsesses over leadership styles, onboarding flows, and GTM strategies—but what if the biggest differentiator of success comes down to something much simpler? Learning. In this episode, Hannah Clark sits down with Maxine Anderson, Co-Founder and CPO of Arist, a text-based learning platform that flips traditional corporate education on its head.Maxine started her career in rural Oregon classrooms, where she saw firsthand how inaccessible and ineffective most learning environments were. That experience sparked the idea behind Arist: meeting people where they already are, through tools like SMS, Slack, and Teams. What follows is a candid conversation about why more content doesn’t equal more learning, the real barriers that keep employees from growing, and how AI is reshaping not just education—but how organizations function.Resources from this episode:Subscribe to The CPO Club newsletterConnect with Maxine on LinkedInCheck out Arist

Every product leader wrestles with the same tradeoff: move fast and risk breaking things, or move slow and risk irrelevance. But what if the real accelerator wasn’t cutting corners—it was systematizing experimentation? In this episode, Hannah Clark sits down with Jean Castanon, VP of Digital Product at American Express, to explore how his team quadrupled their testing velocity in a year, redefined what “success” in experiments really means, and built a referral program that became Amex’s second-largest global acquisition channel.Jean brings over a decade of experience at Amex across strategy, marketing, and digital, and he shares how his team balances speed, scale, and sustainability in product strategy. From building experimentation muscle to future-proofing digital storefronts, this conversation is packed with lessons for product leaders at every stage.Resources from this episode:Subscribe to The CPO Club newsletterConnect with Jean on LinkedInCheck out American Express

Startups don’t get easier with age—they just get more complex. Much like teenagers, scale-ups are constantly outgrowing their structures, still figuring out their identity, and not always great at setting realistic goals. But this awkward “in-between” stage isn’t a failure—it’s a rite of passage on the path to becoming a mature company.In this episode, Hannah sits down with Matt Wensing, Head of Product and Design at Customer.io, who has seen scaling from nearly every angle: founder, product leader, and now executive. Matt shares how to bridge the gap between lofty strategy and day-to-day execution, why your org’s real capacity is often higher than you think, and how to turn constant experimentation from chaos into sustainable growth.Resources from this episode:Subscribe to The Product Manager newsletterConnect with Matthew on LinkedInCheck out Customer.io and Matthew’s website

The Tin Man’s silk heart in The Wizard of Oz is a perfect metaphor for AI right now—it can convincingly mimic empathy, but it’s not the real thing. In this episode, Hannah Clark sits down with Megan O’Rourke, Executive Director of Product at Metalab, to explore the delicate balance between AI-powered productivity and human-driven resonance. They dive into why empathy and storytelling are irreplaceable in both product development and leadership, and the risks we run if we trade them away for efficiency.Megan shares stories from the field, frameworks for deciding when AI belongs in the workflow, and practical ways leaders can embed human connection into their teams’ processes. From reading the silence in a meeting to designing for emotional moments, this conversation is all about building products—and cultures—that people can truly connect with.Resources from this episode:Subscribe to The Product Manager newsletterConnect with Megan on LinkedInCheck out Metalab

Product management isn’t just evolving—it’s getting completely rewritten. In this episode, Hannah sits down with Dr. Maryam Ashoori, VP of Product and Engineering at IBM Watsonx, to talk about how AI is reshaping not only the tools product managers use, but the very nature of the role itself.Maryam brings two decades of experience in AI across design, research, and engineering, and shares what she's seeing from the front lines of one of the most powerful Gen AI platforms on the planet. They explore how AI is shifting expectations, blurring team roles, and opening new paths for productivity and creativity. If you’ve ever felt like the PM playbook just got tossed out the window, you’re not alone—and this conversation is a thoughtful look at how to navigate what comes next.Resources from this episode:Subscribe to The Product Manager newsletterConnect with Maryam on LinkedInCheck out IBM Watsonx

When AI was just a sci-fi footnote and “product transformation” sounded like a buzzword, Michael Luchen was already in the trenches. In this episode, Hannah sits down with the original host of The Product Manager Podcast to unpack three years of change—from his early missteps to building scalable systems and navigating the AI tidal wave with nuance and strategy.Michael, now a self-described "Product Transformation Architect," brings candor and depth as he reflects on what it really takes to shift product culture, orchestrate cross-org alignment, and keep your teams (and kids) curious. Whether you’re wrangling a roadmap or sketching ideas on construction paper, this one’s for you.Resources from this episode:Subscribe to The Product Manager newsletterConnect with Michael on LinkedInCheck out Michael’s website

If you’ve heard the buzz about Vibe Coding but aren’t quite sure what’s real and what’s hype, this episode is your shortcut to clarity. Recorded live at our hands-on Vibe Coding Workshop, this 30-minute seminar with Drew Falkman (Principal at Moves The Needle) unpacks what Vibe Coding actually is, where it fits in the product lifecycle, and how non-technical folks are already using it to ship tools and prototypes—without writing a line of code.Joined by co-host Katie Sanders, Hannah leads a myth-busting session that tackles common misconceptions (spoiler: engineers aren’t going anywhere), showcases real-world use cases from Reddit and their own team, and offers tactical advice for PMs who want to explore this fast-evolving space responsibly.Resources from this episode:Subscribe to The Product Manager newsletterConnect with Drew on LinkedInCheck out Moves The Needle