The Chaplain and the Doctor with Chaplain Betty Clark & Jessica Zitter, MD

Physician Jessica Zitter and chaplain Betty Clark to explore their partnership and the making of their film The Chaplain and The Doctor. The documentary, set in Oakland’s Highland Hospital, captures the real work of palliative care and spiritual care, alongside a growing friendship between two women who cross lines of race, power, and professional hierarchy. They discuss what it means to listen with compassion, how bias and racism manifest at the bedside, and how storytelling, humility, and friendship can become acts of healing. From funny hospital moments to scenes of deep moral reckoning, this episode shows how two healers learn from each other, and how humanity itself can be the best medicine. Find show notes, transcript, and more on our substack and website.  The Nocturnists is made possible by the California Medical Association and donations from listeners like you. This episode of Conversations is sponsored by The Physicians Foundation. 

Pediatrician and author Perri Klass joins us to discuss the dramatic fall in child mortality, drawing from her book The Best Medicine. She traces how clean water, vaccines, antibiotics, and neonatal care transformed family life, revisits once-feared diseases and the breakthroughs that conquered them, and reflects on the cultural shift that made childhood death unacceptable. We also explore the return of measles amid misinformation, the evolution of pediatrics from infection-fighting to child development, and what it means to raise kids in the most medically protected era in history. Find show notes, transcript, and more on our substack and website.  The Nocturnists is made possible by the California Medical Association and donations from listeners like you. This episode of Conversations is sponsored by The Physicians Foundation. 

Writer Sarah Manguso joins us to discuss Questions Without Answers—a book born from a single tweet that drew thousands of kids’ startling, funny, and profound questions, later shaped with New Yorker cartoonist Liana Finck. Part poetry, part philosophy, part comedy, it’s an anthology of childhood wonder. She also revisits her memoir Two Kinds of Decay, which chronicles her diagnosis with CIDP, a rare autoimmune disorder in which the body’s immune system attacks the peripheral nerves, and how it shaped her understanding of illness, vulnerability, and the power of storytelling. Find show notes, transcript, and more on our substack and website.  The Nocturnists is made possible by the California Medical Association and donations from listeners like you. This episode of Conversations is sponsored by The Physicians Foundation. 

Michael Grassi, veteran TV writer, and Daniela Lamas, ICU physician and writer, join us to discuss Brilliant Minds, a medical drama inspired by the cases and philosophy of Oliver Sacks. Together, they reflect on what makes Brilliant Minds different from other medical dramas: a focus not on miracle cures or fast diagnoses, but on adaptation, empathy, and the human condition. Find show notes, transcript, and more on our substack and website.  The Nocturnists is made possible by the California Medical Association and donations from listeners like you. This episode of Conversations is sponsored by The Physicians Foundation. 

Anne Basting, a scholar, writer, and advocate for creative aging, speaks about her groundbreaking work transforming dementia care through creativity and storytelling. As the founder of TimeSlips and author of "Creative Care," Basting shares how she discovered the power of improvisation to spark imagination, dignity, and joy in people with dementia. Together, we explore the “beautiful question,” the principles of “yes, and,” and “proof-of-listening” — simple but profound tools for building connection. Anne reflects on her journey from studying senior theater to pioneering a movement that redefines care as a creative, relational process, offering practical insights for caregivers, families, and communities to engage with people living with dementia in more meaningful ways. This episode was originally produced by Remo Health as a part of their “Talking Dementia” podcast. Remo Health is an innovative telehealth company providing whole-person care to people living with dementia and their caregivers. To learn more about Remo, visit remo.health. Find show notes, transcript, and more on our substack and website.  The Nocturnists is made possible by the California Medical Association and the Physicians Foundation. 

Dr. Susan Nathan, a palliative care physician at the Boston VA, and Thor Ringler, a therapist and poet at the Madison VA, share the story of My Life, My Story — a groundbreaking program that brings veterans’ voices into their medical charts through first-person narratives. Born from a desire to foster empathy and human connection in clinical care, the program has now spread to over 80 VA hospitals nationwide. Susan and Thor reflect on the origins of the initiative, the impact these stories have on patient-clinician relationships, and the profound moments of vulnerability, dignity, and healing that emerge from the storytelling process. We discuss the art of deep listening, the logistics of writing and sharing these narratives, and their vision for expanding this model to institutions beyond the VA. Find show notes, transcript, and more on our substack and website.  The Nocturnists is made possible by the California Medical Association and donations from listeners like you. This episode of Conversations is sponsored by The Physicians Foundation. 

Corey Feist, co-founder of the Dr. Lorna Breen Heroes Foundation, shares the story of his sister-in-law, Dr. Lorna Breen, a dedicated New York City emergency physician who died by suicide in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic. Corey reflects on her passion for medicine, the shock and grief that followed her death, and the flood of messages from healthcare workers that exposed deep stigma and barriers to seeking mental health care. He describes how this outpouring sparked the creation of the foundation and the passing of the Dr. Lorna Breen Health Care Provider Protection Act, driving systemic change to better support clinicians. We also explore ongoing advocacy, progress in reforming licensing and credentialing practices, and the power of community, collaboration, and action in preserving clinician wellbeing.  Find show notes, transcript, and more on our substack and website.  The Nocturnists is made possible by the California Medical Association and donations from listeners like you. This episode of Conversations is sponsored by The Physicians Foundation. 

Dr. Wendy Dean, psychiatrist, writer, and co-founder of Moral Injury of Healthcare, reveals how a profit-driven healthcare system is wounding the very clinicians sworn to care for patients. Drawing from her book If I Betray These Words, Dean explains the concept of moral injury—how systemic betrayal, not personal weakness, often drives physician distress—and shares harrowing true stories of doctors punished, silenced, or even destroyed for putting patient safety first. From corporate consolidation gutting primary care to non-compete clauses that trap physicians, she exposes the forces undermining patient-first medicine and highlights the courageous clinicians fighting back through lawsuits, new care models, and bold advocacy. Find show notes, transcript, and more on our substack and website.  The Nocturnists is made possible by the California Medical Association and donations from listeners like you. This episode of Conversations is sponsored by The Physicians Foundation. 

Today, we're releasing a special bonus episode featuring Emily and our "uncertainty correspondent" Alexa Miller, in conversation with the ABIM Foundation. Together, they reflect on the key insights from creating the Uncertainty in Medicine series. Thank you to the ABIM Foundation for hosting and recording this webinar. To sign up for a webinar in the future, visit buildingtrust.org/webinars. Find show notes, transcripts, and more at thenocturnists.org, and subscribe to our substack. The "Uncertainty in Medicine" series is generously funded by the ABIM Foundation, by the Josiah Macy Jr. Foundation, and the Gordon & Betty Moore Foundation. The Nocturnists is supported by The California Medical Association and donations from listeners like you. Host: Pamela Browner White Uncertainty Correspondent: Alexa Miller Series Illustrations by Eleni Debo

In the series finale, we explore a different type of uncertainty—the uncertainty that arises around the healthcare system itself. This episode follows Ed Stratton, a stage IV cancer patient who beat his cancer, only to be denied a life-saving liver transplant by his insurance provider. His daughter Erin, armed with industry knowledge and unshakable determination, teams up with a healthcare whistleblower and an AI-powered startup to wage an extraordinary battle for his life. We end with a quiet reflection on uncertainty, and what it means to keep going.  Find show notes, transcripts, and more at thenocturnists.org, and subscribe to our substack. The "Uncertainty in Medicine" series is generously funded by the ABIM Foundation, by the Josiah Macy Jr. Foundation, and the Gordon & Betty Moore Foundation. The Nocturnists is supported by The California Medical Association and donations from listeners like you. Host: Emily Silverman, MD Uncertainty Correspondent: Alexa Miller Series Illustrations by Eleni Debo