Episosde 295 - State of Gin, 2025 with Bobby Freeman

In this Navy Strength conversation with Bobby Freeman (@nononsensegin), creator of the hit YouTube Channel, No Nonsense Gin Drinking, some of the topics we discuss include: Bobby’s journey through gin, beginning with the gin & tonic that launched his obsession and all of the stylistic preferences and affinities he’s developed along the way A discussion of recent gin trends in the UK, including the “Pink Gin Bubble” that occurred during COVID and the current obsession with citrus-heavy gins. We also cover the popular cocktail trends that are dominant right now in the London bar world, including Pisco & whiskey sours, porn star martinis, and brambles. And of course, this wouldn’t be a true gin nerd conversation if we didn’t take the opportunity to sample some of our personal favorite gins featuring outlandish botanicals, like oyster shells, elephant dung, ants, and prickly pear cactus. Along the way, we discuss why Bobby gets a little nervous when ordering a Mojito, which South American country has suspiciously good deals on distilled spirits, the gin with a flavor profile that can only be described as “pure fart,” And much, much more.  

Eric continues his two part investigation of the rise of Artificial Intelligence in the cocktail and bar world with special guest Rob Nester, creator of the hit podcast, Drinking with Robots.  Some of the topics covered include: Why AI and human bartenders have some of the same tendencies, especially when it comes to picking base spirits for cocktails. The role that "cognitive outsourcing" plays in our lives, and how to think about "outsourcing" certain tasks to artificial intelligence. The reason why LLMs can often produce cocktails that are about 90% perfect, but often fall short of actual greatness. Some thoughts about how the "intersubjectivity" of flavor is actually a human superpower A few mind-boggling statistics about the computing power of the human brain when compared to the supercomputers that run ChatGPT And much, much more This episode was made possible with editing and sound design by Samantha Reed, AI and cocktail insights courtesy of Rob Nester, creator of the hit podcast, “Drinking with Robots." This has been a Direct Fire Studios production, copyright 2025!

Eric interviews Rob Nester, creator of the hit podcast, Drinking with Robots, about the rise of artificial intelligence in the cocktail space. This is part 1 of a two-part investigation that poses the following question: in what ways might AI transform how we create, enjoy, and perhaps even think about cocktails in the future? In this installment, we talk about Rob's origin story, how he came up with the concept for Drinking with Robots, and the insights he has gleaned about datasets, prompt generation, and the human-AI divide over the course of the first season of the show. Next time, we'll tackle slightly thornier questions, like whether or not LLMs possess the ability to surprise and delight a human palate, the ways in which AI can be effectively (or poorly) implemented in existing bar programs, and some of the big, philosophical questions that arise when you put computers in a position to dictate what we drink and how it tastes.

Courtesy of the illustrious David T. Smith, author of The Gin Dictionary, Disco Cocktails, and other fine bibulous publications, I and a group of friends were treated to a rare Chartreuse tasting after we had wrapped up all of our work at the American Distilling Institute’s annual conference and trade show this past August in Baltimore, MD. Our casual panel of tasters included: Eric Zandona, author of The Tequila Dictionary and The Bourbon Bible Sara Sergent, botanical savant and owner of Alpine Distilling in Park City, Utah Joe Barber of Stargazey Spirits and The Wrecking Coast Distillery in the UK And Reece Sims, creator of Flavour Camp Here’s a (hopefully) somewhat complete list of the stuff we tasted, which may explain our silliness toward the end: The standard Green Chartreuse and Yellow Chartreuse - but these were both taken from the soleras or “infinity bottles” of David T. Smith, so they felt a bit more special Liqueur d’Elixir - A tribute to one of the early proto-variants of Green Chartreuse - this is essentially a half-step between the elixir vegetal and Green Chartreuse 9iere Centennaire - A tribute to the 900th anniversary of the founding of the Order of St. Bruno (also known as the Carthusians) Chartreuse Verte VEP (that’s the fancy green Chartreuse) A bottling by the French Order of master Sommeliers from 2018 - which is a small batch, custom variant of Yellow Chartreuse Tarragona, which is another Chartreuse recipe, celebrating either Tarragon (the herb) or the formulation that the monks made when they were in exile in Spain for a couple decades in the early 20th century Three variants of Chartreuse Genepy (the traditional, intense, and abrupt) And finally, a lovely Florio Amaro bottled in the 1970s, provided by yours truly. Other topics we discuss include: The Carthusian monk documentary entitled Into Great Silence The mythical “beast of Gevaudan” that ravaged the French countryside once upon a time The taxonomy of the Artemisia botanical family A whole bunch of strong cocktail-related opinions about Chartreuse and genepy, And much, much more

Eric leads a panel discussion about flavored whiskey at the 2024 American Distilling Institute Conference and Trade show in Baltimore, Maryland. The esteemed panel includes: Virginia Miller, The Perfect Spot, World's 50 Best Brad Nichols, Flavor Man Sara Sergent, Alpine Distilling Keven Szady, Murlarkey Distilled Spirits We cover a range of important topics in this discussion, all related to the art and craft of bringing flavored whiskeys to market in a crowded and opinionated market. Some of the specific threads we pursue include: Who's drinking flavored whiskey and how we can grow that demographic Using chefs, bartenders, and culinary inspiration as fuel for product development Navigating the regulatory grey areas pertaining to flavored whiskey and distilled spirits specialties Optimizing your formulation when using both fresh botanicals and manufactured specialty flavors How to approach branding and product placement of flavored whiskeys within an existing portfolio with other, non-flavored whiskeys. What might set a "high-end" flavored whiskey apart from the perceived "low-brow" options that currently crowd the shelves. And much, much more

Eric presents a "soup-to-nuts" crash course on how to crush your next cocktail competition. If you'd like to view this seminar with slides, you can watch it on YouTube. Some of the topics covered include: How to structure your approach to cocktail competitions so that they can help to advance your career goals An overview of the three main types of cocktail competitions (digital, local, and "the big leagues") Spotlights on technical learning, networking, photo and video capture, & social media Cocktail design strategies and professional presentation techniques And much, much more

In this globe-trotting, Japanofilic conversation with Awamori champion Jeremy Webb of Webb's Grainworks, some of the topics we discuss include: The technical definition of Awamori, especially with respect to how its distillate base, koji treatment, and aging practices differentiate it from Shochu and Japanese Whisky. How the history and culture of the Ryukyu Kingdom - a nation separate from the rest of Japan until the late 1800s - impacted how Awamori developed in relation to other traditional Asian spirits. The special role that materials like ceramics and stainless steel play in the production and service of Awamori. Why Jeremy decided that now is the time to import, blend, and spread the good news of Awamori in the US Market and how his flagship product, Taniguchi Awamori, took home the gold at the 2024 ADI International Spirits Competition. And the best ways to enjoy Awamori, both in a spirits-and-food pairing context and as an ingredient in classic and original cocktails. Along the way, we explore why Okinawans aren’t impressed by American copper stills, Awamori’s pivotal role in the development of the martial art, Karate, the fun and surprising story behind the name “Taniguchi,” and much, much more.  

In this wide-ranging conversation with cocktail expert and bar mentor Jim Meehan (@mixography), author of The Bartender’s Pantry, some of the topics we discuss include: How ingredient sourcing and processing ties into the exercise of integrity--not just in sourcing the highest “quality” ingredients, but also exploring how your purchasing power plays into our larger agricultural and economic systems. The way that Jim and his illustrator, Bart Sasso, used procedural graphics to create a four-dimensional rendering of the ingredient prep recipes. I’ve never seen illustrations as clever as these in a cocktail or a cookbook, and I think you’ll love them. Why the process of being a good cocktail generalist actually forces you to become a micro-specialist in many different facets of cooking and mixology. The importance of taking ingredients and recipes seriously while also preserving the magic of fun and playfulness in cocktails. The fascinating, delicious gray area that opens up when you realize that the ingredients you’re transforming in the kitchen are also transforming YOU And much, much more.  

In this LIVE Seminar recording, Eric identifies two key strains of B.S. that run through contemporary tasting notes. Then, using a concept he refers to as "locating the 'heart' of a spirit," he explores how to generate tasting notes that say accurate things about flavor while also allowing people to connect with the liquid in a glass or a bottle.

In this, sweet, funky, and occasionally grassy conversation with Ian Burrell (@therumambassador), author of Rum A Tasting Course, some of the topics we discuss include: Why Ian takes a “flavor-first” approach to rum (in general, but especially in this book), and how these flavors are gateways to history, geography, culture, and conversation. The different ways that rum can be categorized, and why these categories are a gateway to all the delightful exceptions that will bamboozle and delight your palate and your brain. We also discuss the three primary types of rum drinkers and the ways these different mindsets and preferences weave through the contemporary story of rum as we experience it at our favorite bars and distilleries. Ian offers a glimpse into some of the completely unique features of RUM: A Tasting Course, including how to make a DIY aroma kit to practice your nosing skills, how he learned about some of the more “illicit” styles of cane spirits being produced around the globe, and how to read a rum label in a way that gives you clues as to what’s in the bottle. We also explore how rum is the most global spirits category of all and why it can benefit from a “complex-systems” approach that introduces people to many different levels of description on their journey to understand and enjoy the bounty of world cane spirits. Along the way, we riff on why it’s awesome to know the shoe size of your favorite rum blender, the elaborate heist that Ian has planned in order to secure a barrel or two from Foursquare Distillery, which sex act is most comparable to the experience of drinking Campari, and much, much more. Every conversation with Ian is both a joy and a complete reinforcement of WHY he is truly THE Global Rum Ambassador. I hope you’ll take the opportunity to give him a follow on social media and look into preordering his new book, Rum A Tasting Course, which will be available in the US about a month after this podcast goes live.