Episode 316 - S.C.U.B.A (Submerging Casks Under Bodies Aquatic)

This is a live recording of a seminar I presented at the Rum Summit about a month ago at the American Distilling Institute conference and trade show in Miami. The title of the presentation is S.C.U.B.A (Submerging Casks Under Bodies Aquatic) and it's my somewhat maximalist attempt to survey the wet, weird subject of underwater cask maturation in the spirits and (surprisingly) cocktail space. Our last interview with the gents from Reef Rum Supply obviously plays heavily into this topic, so if you haven't tuned into that, I'd recommend it, but there's also quite a bit of new info in this talk, as well. You can watch this whole presentation, including the slides and my smiling face up on stage, over on The Modern Bar Cart YouTube channel. The video is already up, and I highly recommend subscribing to the channel if you're a YouTube kinda person.  Also on the YouTube Channel, you can check out a 20-minute process video where I take a cask out to the ocean, submerge it in salt water, then conduct a salt cured rum experiment, which was a lot of fun. So, plenty of great reasons to join me on the video side of this podcast.

In this aquatic maturation deep-dive with Danny and Billy Dalla Polla, Eddie Odabachian, and Nick Carmer of Reef Rum Supply Co., creators of the Seagroni, some of the topics we discuss include: The genesis story of the project, starting with the question: "what if there was sunken treasure in this reef?," and culminating in a fateful Negroni week experiment that changed everything. What happens to spirits and cocktails when they're barrel aged under water, as compared to the conditions and results you might expect from standard, terrestrial warehouse conditions. How consumers have been reacting to the Seagroni at tropical bars across the country and at a recent Bar Convent Brooklyn event, where bartenders tasted their first sample of an experimental spirit called "Sea Wray." We also discuss some of the "associative terroir" that comes from sinking barrels 30 feet into the ocean and what it feels like to be a body (or a barrel, for that matter) hugged by the ocean as currents wash through the aquatic barrel cellar. Along the way, we cover the specific flavors and textures that the Reef Rum Supply team are chasing as they experiment with each new barrel drop, advice for perfecting your cocktail game when paddling in a sea kayak, the scariest things the team have seen while diving on a full moon, and much, much more.

This time around, we explore the fascinating flavors of different Drambuie releases. If you haven't heard of it, it's a honey and whiskey liqueur made in Scotland, and if you have heard of it…well, you know that you can't make a Rusty Nail cocktail without it. In this episode, the bottles we taste through include: Today's Drambuie base expression A bottle from maybe 4 or 5 years ago…just to see if it's the same juice A vintage bottle from the '70s or '80s A 1980s-era Drambuie decanter special release Drambuie 15-year old (made, of course, with 15-year-old whiskey) And we wrap things up with the ready-to-serve Drambuie Hot Apple Toddy Watch this entire tasting on YouTube: https://youtu.be/LkJlnIWTEFs Thanks to David T. Smith for providing the wonderful rare and vintage Drambuie expressions we taste through in this episode. Thanks also to Eric Zandona, Joe Barber, and Erik Owens for joining in the fun and providing their expert palates and feedback.

In this Down Under conversation with James Young of Old Young's Distillery, some of the topics we discuss include: The influence and defining characteristics of the Australian cocktail scene, which differs starkly from what you might find when you travel to Europe and is responsible for such mixological gifts as Mr. Black Coffee liqueur and the butterfly pea coloring craze. How to plan your travel itinerary around tasting delicious spirits in every state in Australia, including whisky in Tasmania, Gin & Brandy in Western Australia, and rum up in Queensland and Kununurra. The growing interest in distilling brandy using Australian grapes and aging it in local casks. This leads us down a number of interesting rabbit holes concerning grape varietals, process and maturation requirements, and even the importance of Australian dessert and fortified wines. Through this entire conversation, you'll be able to trace an underlying thread of quality, which seems to be a cultural hallmark that unifies the diverse flavors and landscapes that you encounter in the agriculture, spirits, and cocktails of Australia. Along the way, we muse on antipodean oddities like: why all white rum in Australia is technically cristallino, what the brandy distillers of the world could learn from Pisco, why you should be drinking gingin gin with Jim, and much, much more Chapters (00:00) Introduction (04:45) Australian Cocktail Trends (07:23) Distillery Destinations in Australia (13:47) The Rise of Australian Brandy (18:00) The Story of Gingin Gin (19:51) Standards of Identity through Production Rules (25:15) Australia as a Culture of Quality (27:59) Australian Brandy Grape Varietals (32:07) Conclusion  

In part one of my two-part waltz through the flavors and landscapes of Australia with James Young of Old Young's Distillery, some of the topics we discuss include: The history and evolution of the Australian distilling industry, specifically with respect to the development of the Australian whisky scene and the rise of distinct gin and rum traditions. The impact of Australian agriculture and wine on the types of grains, casks, and other production choices that have come to define Australian whisky on the world stage. The flavor and culture phenomenon that is Australian gin, including the story behind Four Pillars' Bloody Shiraz and the proliferation of wine-flavored gins and a survey of unique endemic botanicals to look out for. Along the way, we also take time to consider the six seasons you'll experience in Perth, Australian brands and bottles to keep your eye out for on American liquor store shelves, the fine line between lemon myrtle use and abuse, and much, much more.

In part two of my exploration of flavor and memory with Dr. Kevin Peterson, some of the topics we discuss include: What the Big 5 personality index (also known as OCEAN) might be able to teach us about how guests think about factors like novelty and comfort in the cocktails they enjoy. The difference between the highest-rated drink (on average) on most Castalia menus, versus the highest-rated drinks for specific individuals. How people respond when asked to describe their ideal cocktail - including the aesthetics and memories they tended to focus on, and which qualities they most often left out of the description. We also explore a somewhat half-baked theory I propose about flavor as an "attractor," which is an explanatory concept taken from complex systems science that deals with nonlinear dynamics. Along the way, we muse on the complexities of serving baijiu cocktails in the midwest, what kinds of cocktail experiments Dr. Peterson would run if we were all guinea pigs in his flavor lab, the sublime transcendence of cauliflower and pomegranate marinated lamb, and much, much more. Please head over to sfumatofragrances.com to check out Cocktail Theory and pre-order his upcoming book, Data-Driven Drinks, and I hope you enjoy the thrilling conclusion of my latest interview with Dr. Kevin Peterson.

In this data-driven conversation with Dr. Kevin Peterson, some of the topics we discuss include: How winding down Castalia and Sfumato after a decade of service provided the impetus for this new project, and why Kevin has set out to address a very different set of questions than in his last book, Cocktail Theory. Why matching a person with their ideal drink is very different (and much more difficult, it turns out) from trying to make the optimal Old Fashioned or Negroni or Daiquiri. This leads to a conversation about all the variables that go into cocktail preference: sweetness, acidity, bitterness, booziness, effervescence, egg white, spiciness, and so much more - how does one begin to build such a high-dimensional beverage algorithm in pursuit of aesthetic pleasure? We also discuss some of the algorithmic tests that good bar programs and bartenders can implement in order to zero in on guest preferences more quickly. These include good menu writing, the classic bartender's choice speed interview, and the possibility for creating a guest profile with likes and dislikes. Along the way, we explore why spicy drinks are a trap, the sea change I experienced the first time I tasted Green Chartreuse, the idea of perceptual thresholds in cocktails and in life, and much, much more.  

In this fascinating conversation with Max Well and Alex Lamb, directors of The Donn of Tiki, some of the topics we discuss include: How a COVID-era YouTube short on the history of Tiki in LA snowballed into a full-length feature film on one of the most iconic bar entrepreneurs of the 20th century: Ernest Gantt, AKA Donn Beach, AKA "Don the Beachcomber." The way that stop-motion puppetry and clever era-appropriate animations were used to give Donn an embodied presence in his own story, with audio unearthed from a single set of tapes uncovered at the University of Hawaii. The interesting ironies that run through Donn's life, including his propensity to build big and lose everything and the very different love interests who came and went, changing his trajectory and altering the arc of tropical drinks history in the process. We also explore the two seemingly opposed natures operating at the same time in Donn Beach: his unwavering pursuit of authenticity and quality, on the one hand, which was often masked by his flair for showmanship and his trickster-like talent for tall tales and misdirection. Along the way, we revel in Donn's ability to create freak evening thunderstorms with a hose atop his LA speakeasy, speculate about how he might feel about super juice, and even take the time to appreciate his unexpected role in the revival of authentic Hawaiian culture in the 20th century. When this episode airs, Alex and Max will still be touring and doing screenings around the country, so head over to TheDonnOfTiki.com to check out their schedule, and be sure to keep your eyes peeled for when this film hits your favorite streaming services in the near future.

Eric kicks off 2026 with an audio essay rant targeted at the ham-fisted "percentage" math that people use to answer the question: "How much of a whiskey's flavor comes from the barrel?" In the censored words of George Carlin: "It's all BS, and it's bad for ya." To demonstrate this, we sift through GC-MS whiskey sample results, human neurobiology, and behavioral economics. In the end, it's a poorly posed question invented to solve a problem that doesn't exist, and it colors our expectations about flavor in harmful ways.

This time around, we'll be taking a look at drinking rituals from around the world. A few months back, my friend Reece Sims asked me to write an article about drinking rituals for her new publication, The Flavour Report. She has graciously agreed to let me read the article on-air and give you all a bit of a "Director's Cut" version of the article, entitled: Sacred Serves: The Rituals That Make Drinking Human. For those of you who have the opportunity to enjoy a few drinks with family and friends this holiday season, I hope some of these thoughts about the importance of ritual, hospitality, gratitude, and the sometimes radical act of coming together can help you to appreciate some of those moments even more. Please remember, as always, to drink responsibly and experiment boldly. Additional Resource: Video of Queimada Ritual (WARNING: DO NOT ATTEMPT AT HOME)