Dr Carissa Véliz on Prophecy

What if prediction isn’t about knowing the future, but controlling it?  On this episode, I'm joined by a leading thinker on digital ethics, privacy and technology to explore the idea of prophecy.Episode SummaryMy guest is Dr Carissa Véliz and in our discussion, we talk about humanity’s long-standing obsession with predicting what comes next, and why today’s algorithms may be the most powerful (and dangerous) prophets we’ve ever created. From ancient oracles and court astrologers to modern AI systems and tech executives, we explore how prediction has always been less about knowledge and more about power. What becomes clear is that while the tools have changed, the underlying dynamics haven’t. We still crave certainty, we still look for authority, and we’re still willing to trust those who claim to see the future. The difference now is scale: predictive technologies don’t just forecast behaviour; they shape it. And the more accurate they appear, the less likely we are to question them. We then explore responsibility. If prediction influences reality, then our willingness to accept it matters. This episode is a reminder that the future isn’t something that simply happens to us, but something we’re actively participating in, whether we realise it or not.Guest BioDr Carissa Véliz is Associate Professor of Philosophy at the Institute for Ethics in AI and a Fellow at Hertford College at the University of Oxford. She is a leading thinker on digital ethics, privacy, and technology. She is the author of several books including her latest release 'Prophecy: Prediction, Power and the Fight for the Future, from Ancient Oracles to AI' and 'Privacy Is Power: Why and How You Should Take Back Control of Your Data 'Her work explores how data, AI, and predictive systems reshape society—often in ways that are invisible but deeply consequential. Drawing on philosophy, history, and real-world systems, she examines how power operates through technology and what individuals and institutions can do to resist it.AI-Generated TImestamped Summary[00:00:00] Opening: prediction as something that shapes—not reveals—the future[00:01:00] Why prophecy is a lens for understanding modern AI[00:04:00] Kings, prophets, and the risks of getting predictions wrong[00:06:00] Survival strategies of ancient astrologers[00:08:00] Why humans crave certainty—and who exploits it[00:10:00] The danger of mistaking wealth for wisdom[00:12:00] Prediction as a tool of power throughout history[00:14:00] Surveillance as the foundation of modern prediction[00:16:00] How predictions shape behaviour (self-fulfilling dynamics)[00:17:00] Publishing as a case study in manufactured success[00:21:00] The strange economics of pre-orders and attention[00:23:00] Insurance: from solidarity to individualised risk[00:26:00] The hidden systemic risks of personalised prediction[00:30:00] Why citizens need to reclaim agency[00:31:00] Laziness vs values: why we default to algorithms[00:33:00] Tech creating problems it then claims to solve[00:34:00] The role of humour as truth-telling[00:35:00] Why algorithms would have killed Seinfeld[00:40:00] Practical alternatives: preparation over prediction[00:42:00] The importance of serendipity[00:43:00] Rediscovering the analogue world[00:46:00] Algorithms shaping culture and environments[00:48:00] Optimism vs doom in thinking about technology[00:50:00] Writing as exploration, not predictionLinksCarissa's website - https://www.carissaveliz.com/Her new book, Prophecy - https://www.carissaveliz.com/prophecyHer previous book Privacy Is Power - https://www.carissaveliz.com/booksCarissa's faculty page - https://www.oxford-aiethics.ox.ac.uk/dr-carissa-velizCarissa on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/carissa-v%C3%A9liz-a5781555/

We like to think we choose what matters. But what if the goals we’re chasing… aren’t actually ours?Episode Summary My guest on this episode is Dr. C. Thi Nguyen, philosopher and author of The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else’s Game, a book about how metrics, scoring systems, and “games” shape our behaviour—often without us realising it. Thi explains how his work on games led him to a deeper question: why do scoring systems make games feel meaningful, but make real life feel distorted? The answer lies in how metrics redefine success—quietly shifting us from what we care about to what we can measure.In a wide-ranging discussion, we explore the idea of “value capture”, why institutions rely on simplified proxies, and how the very features that make metrics useful also make them dangerous. We also discuss expertise, transparency, gamification, and why removing metrics altogether doesn’t solve the problem. This is a conversation about control: who sets the rules, who keeps score, and what happens when we stop questioning the game we’re playing. Guest BioDr. C. Thi Nguyen is a philosopher whose work explores how games, metrics, and social systems shape human behaviour and values. A professor of philosophy at the University of Utah, his research sits at the intersection of ethics, decision-making, and the philosophy of agency, with a particular focus on how the structures around us influence what we care about and how we act.Alongside his academic work, Thi is also a keen gamer, rock climber, and cook; interests that inform his thinking about play, challenge, and the richness of human experience beyond what can be easily measured.AI-Generated Timestamped Summary 00:00 – Introduction: games, metrics, and meaning03:00 – How Thi came to study games and philosophy07:00 – What games are (and why they matter)10:00 – Achievement vs striving play13:00 – Cheating and misunderstanding the point of games16:00 – Games, struggle, and meaningful activity18:00 – Cooking, recipes, and rules22:00 – Metrics as simplified rule systems25:00 – Value capture and how metrics reshape goals29:00 – Why institutions rely on measurement32:00 – Quantification and loss of context36:00 – Rules, algorithms, and expertise40:00 – Standardisation and the cost of consistency43:00 – Transparency, trust, and unintended consequences47:00 – Metrics and the loss of expert judgment50:00 – Ungrading and the limits of removing metrics54:00 – Designing better scoring systems58:00 – Gamification and why it misses the point01:02:00 – Choosing your own game01:06:00 – Final reflections and closingRelevant LinksThi’s personal website – https://objectionable.net/His faculty page - https://profiles.faculty.utah.edu/u6021584The Score: How to Stop Playing Someone Else’s Game - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/457380/the-score-by-nguyen-c-thi/9780241653975Thi on Bluesky – https://bsky.app/profile/add-hawk.bsky.social

We tend to assume that if we’re working hard, we’re working well. But what if that isn’t true?Episode SummaryMy guest on this episode is Phil Dobson, author of The Brain Book and founder of Brain Workshops, about what he calls 'cognitive leadership': using neuroscience and psychology to help people sustain performance, think more clearly, and navigate uncertainty. Phil explains how a broken ankle led him from music and sales into hypnotherapy, neuroscience, and leadership development, and why he believes most of us are never properly taught how our brains actually work.In a wide-ranging discussion, we explore the difference between productivity and effectiveness, why attention may be our most valuable asset, and how modern working life often undermines flow, creativity, and good decision-making. We also discuss stress, workload, digital distraction, the limits of measurement, and what organisations get wrong when they try to manage people as if more time always equals more value.Discover how leaders can create better conditions for thinking, resilience, creativity, and change; and why understanding the human brain matters far beyond the workplace.Episode Summaruywhy most of us are taught far too little about how our brains workPhil’s unusual route from musician to hypnotherapist to neuroscience-based leadership adviserthe difference between being productive and being effectivewhy self-employment sharpened Phil’s focus on impact rather than activityhow experimentation, iteration, and reflection shape better ways of workingthe distinction between fun and fulfilmentflow states and why modern life makes them harder to accessthe growing importance of attention in a world of distractionwhy stress management has to include workload management, not just breathing techniqueshow rest, breaks, and so-called “unproductive” time often drive insight and creativitywhy measuring people too narrowly can damage performancehow understanding the brain helps leaders navigate change and uncertaintywhy improving human decision-making matters not just for performance, but for reducing costly mistakesAI-Generated Timestamped Summary00:00 — Introduction: busyness vs effectiveness02:00 — Phil’s journey into cognitive leadership07:00 — Productivity vs effectiveness (and the 80/20 shift)12:00 — Experimentation, habits, and fulfilment17:00 — Flow, focus, and attention under pressure22:00 — Attention as a critical (and under threat) asset27:00 — Why knowing isn’t the same as doing31:00 — Rethinking productivity: energy, creativity, and insight36:00 — The neuroscience of better thinking (default mode network)40:00 — Measurement, management, and leadership challenges45:00 — Human performance beyond the workplace50:00 — Human error, decision-making, and risk55:00 — Evolving work: shorter weeks and smarter working58:00 — Leading change with a brain-based approach01:03:00 — Final reflections and closingRelevant LinksPhil's website - https://phildobson.com/Brain Workshops - https://brainworkshops.co.uk/Phil on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brainworkshops/The Brain Book - https://www.amazon.com/Brain-Book-Smarter-Concise-Advice/dp/1910649732

What lessons does a religious protest that led to an uprising  in 1549 have to do with human risk?At first glance, not very much. It’s easy to see it as a distant historical event — something about religion, kings, and a very different world. But as my guest, Professor Mark Stoyle explains, the Western Rising of 1549 is far more than that. It’s a powerful example of what happens when authority imposes change without understanding how people will react. Episode Summary This episode started on a train journey to Exeter, where I was due to give a talk. Looking for a local story to make my presentation more relevant, I stumbled across a battle that had taken place just outside the venue in 1549. The more I read, the clearer it became that this wasn’t just history, it was a case study in compliance, behaviour, and unintended consequences.Guest ProfileMark is a historian and leading expert on what he calls the Western Rising of 1549. In this conversation, we explore how sweeping religious changes imposed by those in power triggered resistance, how small incidents escalated into a major rebellion, and why identity, belief, and emotion played such a critical role. Along the way, we discuss how history is written (and biased), why changing language can provoke outrage rather than acceptance, and what this story reveals about leadership, risk, and human behaviour today.AI-Generated Timestamped Summary 00:00 – Introduction: a compliance failure in 154901:00 – The train journey to Exeter02:00 – Discovering the rebellion04:00 – Why this is a human risk story05:15 – Introducing Professor Mark Stoyle07:30 – Setting the historical context10:00 – Power, authority, and instability13:30 – What triggered the rising17:00 – Why language change caused outrage22:00 – Early resistance and local incidents25:00 – The tipping point: violence begins29:00 – How the rebellion spreads33:00 – The siege of Exeter37:00 – How history is written by the victors41:00 – Crushing the rebellion45:00 – Cultural consequences and language loss48:00 – Lessons for today52:00 – Polarisation and modern parallels57:00 – Final reflections In this episode we discussKey Topics Why imposed change can trigger resistanceHow small incidents escalate into major crisesThe role of identity, belief, and emotion in decision-makingWhy language and culture matter in complianceHow authority can misjudge human behaviourThe dangers of polarisation and “us vs them” thinkingWhy compromise becomes impossible in extreme positionsHow history is shaped by those who winThe unintended consequences of leadership decisionsWhat a 16th-century rebellion teaches us about modern riskGuest ProfileMark Stoyle is Professor of History at the University of Southampton. He specialises in Tudor rebellions, the English Civil War, and the history of witchcraft. Originally from Devon, his work on the Western Rising of 1549 draws on decades of research and a deep personal connection to the region where these events took place.Links The Western Rising of 1549, Mark's book - https://yalebooks.co.uk/book/9780300276886/the-western-rising-of-1549/Mark's University of Southampton profile page - https://www.southampton.ac.uk/people/5wyxqy/professor-mark-stoyleMark's publisher profile: - https://www.worldturnedupsidedown.co.uk/team/mark-stoyle/

What exactly is a sign?  At first glance, that might sound like a strange question. Signs are everywhere: telling us where to go, what to do, what not to do, and sometimes what might happen if we ignore instructions. But as my guest, Jeffrey Ludlow Saentz explains, signs are much more than bits of information on walls or beside roads.Episode Summary Jeffrey is a signage designer who works on complex buildings and environments around the world — airports, offices, museums, and other places where helping people find their way really matters. He’s also the author of A Sign Is..., a fascinating book exploring the history, meaning, and cultural significance of the signs that shape our everyday behaviour.In this conversation, we explore why good signage is often invisible, how buildings “speak” to us through wayfinding systems, and what signs reveal about power, trust, and human behaviour. Along the way we discuss hacked traffic signs, casino design, airport navigation, and why something as simple as an arrow carries centuries of history.AI-Generated Timestamped Summary 00:00 – Introduction: why signs are more interesting than they first appear03:00 – How Jeffrey became a signage designer04:00 – The challenge of helping people navigate complex buildings07:00 – What actually is a sign?09:00 – Why “everything can be a sign”11:00 – The power dynamics behind signage and authority13:00 – How designers observe signage in the real world14:30 – Cultural differences in wayfinding and navigation19:30 – Why Jeffrey wrote A Sign Is..22:00 – The fascinating history of fire safety signage24:00 – Curiosity and the stories hidden behind everyday signs27:00 – Hacked construction signs and unexpected messages31:00 – Trust, authority, and information on signs35:00 – Advertising, nudging, and attention36:00 – Information overload and competing signals39:00 – The learned language of signs and symbols41:00 – Why good signage is “invisible” when it works43:00 – Airports, trust, and wayfinding design46:00 – How people become signage designers47:30 – How casinos, airports, and museums use signs differently50:00 – The psychology of navigation54:00 – Why signage can’t work perfectly for everyone57:00 – Why wayfinding is an art rather than a science01:02:00 – Jeffrey’s book A Sign Is and where to find it01:04:00 – What signs might look like in the future In this episode we discussKey TopicsWhy signage is a form of behavioural communicationHow buildings “talk” to people through wayfinding systemsThe psychology of navigation and spatial awarenessWhy good signage is invisibleHow casinos deliberately make navigation harderWhy museums minimise signs while airports maximise themThe cultural differences in how places are navigatedWhat hacked traffic signs reveal about trust in authorityWhy signs act as nudges that shape behaviourThe limits of signage when designing for large groupsHow digital navigation may change our relationship with physical signsAbout JeffreyJeffrey Ludlow is a signage and wayfinding designer and founder of Point of Reference Studio, a design practice specialising in signage systems, environmental graphics, and branding for public environments. Trained as an architect, Jeffrey’s work sits at the intersection of architecture, graphic design, and behavioural psychology — helping people navigate complex spaces more intuitively. He is the author of A Sign Is, a book exploring the cultural, historical, and behavioural significance of the signs that surround us. Links Jeffrey's book 'A Sign Is...' - https://oroeditions.com/product/a-sign-isPoint of Reference, the Madrid-based studio Jeffrey founded - https://pointofreference.studio/

What Can a Cocktail Teach Us About Curiosity and Creativity? At first glance, documenting Negronis around the world might sound like a frivolous hobby. But could a simple cocktail become a vehicle for curiosity, experimentation and creative thinking? On this episode, I speaks with geopolitical strategist Marc A Ross about an unusual passion project: ordering and documenting Negronis wherever he travels. What began as a casual habit has evolved into a magazine-style project called 50 Negronis, capturing cocktails from elegant bars to chaotic airport lounges. Along the way, the project has revealed something deeper about travel, culture and the value of experimentation. But as the conversation unfolds, it becomes clear this episode isn’t really about cocktails. Instead it’s about how curiosity leads to discovery, why creative side projects matter, and how experimentation can enrich both our professional and personal lives. Curiosity Starts With Small ExperimentsMarc’s Negroni project began almost accidentally. While travelling frequently for his work as a geopolitical strategist, he started ordering Negronis and photographing them. What made the idea interesting wasn’t a search for the perfect drink.Instead, Marc documented the entire experience — the great cocktails, the mediocre ones, and the truly terrible ones. That curiosity created a lens through which to experience the world differently. Bars became places for conversation, experimentation and discovery, and the project grew into a collection of stories from cities across the globe. Creativity Through PlayA key theme of the conversation is the importance of playfulness. Marc deliberately avoids treating the project too seriously. The photos are simple smartphone snapshots, the documentation is intentionally loose, and the goal isn’t perfection.That approach mirrors how many creative projects evolve; by removing the pressure to produce something “definitive,” the project becomes an experiment. And in the process, it becomes easier to create, learn and iterate. Authenticity, Communication and Personality We also explore how side projects can sharpen professional skills. Marc argues that communicators, leaders and even politicians should experiment creatively and share aspects of their personality. Authenticity matters. Whether it’s documenting cocktails, running unconventional events, or experimenting with new formats, people connect more with ideas that feel genuine. Sometimes the most powerful way to communicate is simply to follow an idea that genuinely interests you.AI-Generated Timestamped Summary00:00 – A cocktail as a conversation starterIntroduction; why Negronis might seem like an unusual topic for a podcast about human behaviour and yet… 02:00 – Recording in Sundance, UtahMarc describes the Brigadoon gathering and its focus on conversation rather than traditional conference formats. 04:00 – The origins of the NegroniMarc explains the history of the cocktail and why it remains a classic drink. 07:00 – The “50 Negronis” projectA disappointing airport Negroni sparks the idea of documenting the drinks Marc encounters while travelling. 10:00 – Capturing cocktails around the worldMarc explains how he photographs the drinks and records the ingredients when possible. 13:00 – Cocktail culture and experimentationThey discuss how bartenders experiment with ingredients and create new variations. 18:00 – Why the details don’t matterThe project becomes less about recipes and more about stories, places and experiences. 22:00 – Learning through experimentationChristian reflects on how creative side projects can help people learn and explore new ideas. 30:00 – Lessons for communicators and politiciansMarc explains why authenticity and personality matter in leadership. 37:00 – Staying curious and having funThe conversation turns to persistence, creativity and the value of pursuing ideas simply because they’re interesting. 42:00 – Where to follow Marc’s workMarc shares details about Brigadoon events and his geopolitical newsletter. Links Caracal Global, Marc’s consultancy and advisory firm - https://www.caracal.global/Brigadoon, Marc’s series of lovingly curated events - https://www.brigadoon.live/ Marc on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcaross/ Marc’s previous appearance on the show - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/marc-ross-on-communication-strategy/ Sundance Mountain Resort - https://www.sundanceresort.com/

What’s the difference between a mistake… and a bad decision? My guest knows this only too well. Tom Hardin has been on the show several times before. As Tipper X, he wore a wire for the FBI and helped build the largest insider trading investigation in US history. Since then, he has spent nearly a decade speaking to organisations around the world about slippery slopes, rationalisation, and how good people drift into serious trouble. In this episode, he returns to discuss his new book, Wired on Wall Street. The book goes beyond the insider trading case many listeners already know. It explores the ambition, insecurity and desire for status that shaped his early career, and the patterns he only recognised years later when writing it down. For the first time on a podcast, Tom is also joined by his wife, Sue. She played no role in the trades that changed his life, but her life was dramatically altered by them. She reflects on discovering the truth, keeping a secret that wasn’t hers, facing sentencing uncertainty, and what it means to rebuild together. This conversation isn’t really about insider trading; it’s about character.Key ThemesWhy calling something a “mistake” can soften accountabilityThe psychology of slippery slopes and rationalisationStatus anxiety and the need to belongResume virtues vs eulogy virtuesShame versus guilt — and why the distinction mattersThe hidden impact of ethical failure on spouses and familiesWhat writing a book can reveal that telling a story on stage cannotThe freedom that comes from having nothing left to hideTom’s story is unusual; the human dynamics behind it are not.AI-Generated Timestamped Summary00:00 – More than insider tradingWhy this conversation is about character — guilt vs shame, mistakes vs bad decisions, and the cost of ethical drift. 02:30 – The story in briefTom recaps becoming “Tipper X” and helping build the largest insider trading investigation in US history. 03:15 – Why write the book now?After a decade of speaking, Tom explains what finally pushed him to put the full story — childhood, ambition, insecurity — on paper. 08:00 – The deeper patternFrom Georgia to the Ivy League to hedge funds: the outsider mindset, status anxiety, and the slippery slope. 16:00 – Small decisions, big consequencesEarly corner-cutting, rationalisation, and the fraud triangle in action. 26:00 – Resume virtues vs eulogy virtuesHow Tom’s definition of success changed — and the difference between shame and guilt. 31:00 – A simple test for integrityOne question that could replace most Codes of Conduct:Are you willing to be held accountable for this decision? Sue’s Perspective 40:30 – The night she found outShock, disbelief, and the future collapsing in an instant. 44:00 – Keeping a secret that wasn’t hersWhite lies, reputational fear, and the strain of silence. 49:00 – Sentencing dayWhy she insisted on being there — no matter the outcome. 52:30 – Reinvention and resilienceStay-at-home dad years, ultramarathons, and rebuilding a life together.LinksWired on Wall Street: www.tipperx.com/bookTipper X Website: www.tipperx.comTom's previous appearances on the show:Tom's experience as FBI Informant Tipper X - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/tom-hardin-on-his-experience/Turning Crime Into A Calling - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/tom-hardin-on-turning-a-crime-into-a-calling/Tom's Substack: https://substack.com/@tipperxTom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tipperx/

What happens when someone runs with a business idea they've heard as a thought experiment on a podcast? Can a business have an expletive in its name? And is it possible to run a business that sells a single very specific product?Episode SummaryOn this episode, I’m joined by Charlie Hurst, Tom Noble and Will Sudlow — the founders of Flat White or F*ck Off*, a coffee brand inspired by a thought experiment by friend of the show,Rory Sutherland. The concept is simple: sell one thing — flat whites — and if you want something else… the answer’s in the name. ⚠️ *Given the name of the business, this episode contains a lot of swearing!Within four months of hearing the idea on Jamie Laing’s Great Company podcast, they’d banded together — having never met but being isnpired to give the business a go — built a brand, grown an audience of tens of thousands, and served 1,500 flat whites in a single day at a London pop-up.  Most people would've treated Rory's idea as an interesting thought experiment. But Charlie, Tom and Will decided — with Rory's blessing — to actually build it.In an extended conversation, we explore what it means to:Build a brand before you have a productGrow an audience before you open a shopShare your financials publiclyDeliberately polarise rather than pleaseDiscover why Charlie, Tom and Will spent £22,000 on a one-day loss-making pop-that served as a live experiment; part marketing, part proof of concept, part behavioural case study.We discuss why constraint can be liberating, why queues affect perceived quality, how social proof shapes demand, and why narrowing your audience can be more powerful than trying to attract everyone.This isn’t just a story about coffee. It’s about conviction, creative constraint and what happens when you deliberately ignore conventional business wisdom.Guest Bios Charlie HurstDesigner and brand builder. Charlie created the original visual identity for Flat White or F*ck Off after seeing Rory’s idea online.Tom NobleEntrepreneur and digital builder. Tom documented the entire journey in public, helping grow the brand’s audience before a single coffee was sold.Will SudlowCo-founder of experiential agency The Impossible. Will brought production expertise to turn the idea into a large-scale pop-up event.AI-Generated Timestamped Summary00:00 – From Thought Experiment to Real Business: why this is more than a coffee story. 03:00 – Hearing Rory’s Idea: how Charlie, Tom and Will discovered the concept and decided to act on it.08:00 – Building in Public: growing an audience before having a physical product; documenting everything online.15:00 – One Product Only: why selling just flat whites is a strategic constraint — and a behavioural signal. 25:00 – The Pop-Up Experiment: erving 1,500 coffees in a day; spending £27,000 as a marketing investment.35:00 – Polarisation & Backlash: criticism, online sceptics and why not being for everyone is the point.50:00 – Perception, Queues & Behaviour: what they learned about speed, quality signals and social proof.01:05:00 – Risk, Conviction & Entrepreneurship: why building something in public is both terrifying and liberating.01:20:00 – What Happens Next: scaling, experimentation and staying true to the core idea. LinksRory on Jamie Laing’s Great Company podcast - https://shows.acast.com/great-company/episodes/rory-sutherland Flat White or F*ck Off - https://flatwhiteorfckoff.com/Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/flatwhiteorfckoff/TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@flatwhiteorfckoff/ LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/flat-white-or-fck-off/ The co-foundersTom on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomasnoble1992/ Charlie on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlie-hurst-715364150/Will on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/willsudlow/Ask The Impossible - https://asktheimpossible.com/Rory's appearances on this show:https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/ https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-paul-craven-on-alchemy-magic/ https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-rory-sutherland/ https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley-paul-craven-at-abbey-road-part-one/

What if we stopped telling women how to stay safe, and started asking why violence against them keeps happening in the first place? On this episode, I’m joined for a second time, by Amy Watson, the founder of social enterprise HASSL. She’s trying to tackle violence against women and girls at its root. Not with another awareness campaign or  safety app. But by building a global movement designed to shift responsibility away from women, and onto society. OverviewWhen Amy first joined the podcast a year ago, we discussed the scale and reality of violence against women. A year on, she returns to talk about what it actually takes to tackle it. In just twelve months, her social enterprise HASSL has grown into a global prevention movement: more than half a million followers, thousands of volunteers across over 120 countries, and campaigns reaching millions of people organically.But this isn’t just a story about social media growth. It’s about culture change. In an extended and wide-ranging disucssion, we explore why laws alone don’t solve systemic problems, why “stay safe” advice can unintentionally reinforce the wrong narrative, and what happens when you apply entrepreneurial thinking to one of society’s most entrenched issues.This is a conversation about scale, backlash, risk and moral ambition, and about what it means to build something that refuses to compromise.Guest Bio - Amy WatsonAmy is the founder of HASSL, a global social enterprise tackling harassment at the root.HASSL focuses on prevention — shifting responsibility for violence away from women as individuals and onto the cultural and systemic factors that enable harm. Combining research, education and partnerships, it aims to create scalable, long-term change rather than short-term fixes. In just over a year, HASSL has grown into a global movement with hundreds of thousands of followers and volunteers across more than 120 countries. Amy’s work sits at the intersection of social justice and entrepreneurship, applying business thinking to one of society’s most entrenched problems. AI-Generated Timestamped Summary00:00 – Intro: From Problem to ActionChristian frames this follow-up as a shift from discussing violence against women to exploring what it takes to tackle it in practice. 02:00 – What HASSL Stands For Amy explains HASSL’s prevention-first approach: shifting responsibility away from women and onto culture, systems and male behaviour. 05:00 – Scaling a Social Enterprise Rapid global growth, research-driven strategy, sustainable funding streams and a structured five-stage plan. 08:30 – Education & Engaging MenLaunch of free education resources, bystander tools and conversation frameworks designed to invite men into the solution. 16:00 – Entrepreneurship, Risk & Moral AmbitionApplying startup thinking to social change; sacrificing financial ambition for impact; long-term vision over quick wins. 35:00 – Values, Independence & Leadership Why Amy avoids outside investment, refuses to compromise on inclusivity, and builds operational resilience into the organisation. 58:30 – Backlash & Online Abuse Trolling, hate messages and the deliberate disruption of a webinar — and what that reveals about cultural normalisation. 01:05:00 – Using Criticism as LeverageTurning recurring myths (“false accusations”, “what about men?”) into educational opportunities and narrative shifts. 01:21:00 – Barriers to Reporting Why speaking out rarely benefits women; the structural and social costs involved.01:37:00 – Building a Movement How listeners can engage — and why lasting change requires persistence, scale and collective responsibility.Links Amy’s previous appearance on the show - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/amy-watson-on-violence-against-women/HASSL - hassl.ukMoral Ambition by Rutger Bregman - https://www.moralambition.org/book

Who determines what 'good' Compliance actually looks like?  The obvious answer is regulators (and in some jurisdictions) prosecutors. But what if it were the regulated Firms themselves?  That's the idea behind purpose-driven compliance, which I'm exploring on this episode.Episode Summary To explore this, I'm joined by Veronica Root Martinez, Professor of Law at Duke University School of Law, to explore a deceptively simple but unsettling idea: 100% compliance is impossible. While we often behave as though perfect compliance is the goal — and in some safety-critical domains it must be — most organisational compliance involves humans. And humans make mistakes. Things get missed. Context changes. Stuff goes wrong.So if perfection isn’t realistic, the real question becomes: how do organisations decide what really matters? The traditional answer has been to look outward — to regulators, enforcement authorities, and in some jurisdictions (particularly the US), prosecutors. Their priorities, expressed through sentencing guidelines, enforcement actions, and settlements, end up defining what “good” compliance looks like. Veronica challenges that logic. She argues that this gets things the wrong way round. Instead of letting enforcement priorities dictate behaviour, she makes the case for purpose-driven compliance — where organisations set their own priorities based on their purpose, values, and actual risks, rather than chasing shifting regulatory expectations. Along the way, the conversation explores culture, human judgment, psychological safety, technology, experimentation, and why “best practice” can sometimes make things worse rather than better. This episode is for anyone who writes rules, enforces them — or simply has to live under them.Guest BiographyVeronica Root Martinez is a Professor of Law at Duke University School of Law, where she researches corporate compliance, ethics, and organisational culture. Her work on purpose-driven compliance challenges enforcement-led models and explores how organisations can set priorities based on their own purpose, values, and risks.Before entering academia, Veronica practised as an associate at a large law firm in Washington, DC, where she worked on regulatory and white-collar matters — experience that strongly informs the practical orientation of her research.LinksProfessor Veronica Root Martinez – Faculty Profilehttps://law.duke.edu/fac/martinezVeronica on LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/veronica-root-martinez/Purpose-Driven Compliance (paper discussed in the episode)https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6078766AI-Generated Timestamped Summary00:00 – 02:00 | “Because they said so”Christian reframes compliance as a universal human experience — not just a professional discipline — and introduces the problem of rules justified solely by regulatory expectation.02:00 – 05:30 | Why 100% compliance is impossibleVeronica explains why modern organisations cannot realistically achieve perfect compliance when humans are involved — and why pretending otherwise creates problems.05:30 – 10:30 | Tolerated misconduct and cultural driftHow allowing “small” rule-breaking can escalate into bigger issues, drawing on behavioural ethics and real-world corporate failures. 10:30 – 14:30 | Risk, prioritisation, and what really mattersA discussion of risk-based thinking, irrecoverable vs recoverable errors, and why organisations — not regulators — are best placed to set priorities. 14:30 – 18:30 | Enforcement swings and resilienceWhy compliance programmes built around enforcement trends are fragile, expensive, and reactive — and how purpose-driven approaches create stability. 18:30 – 23:30 | Innovation, uncertainty, and guardrailsWhy regulators are always behind innovation — and how values-based guardrails help employees make decisions in uncharted territory.23:30 – 30:30 | Technology, AI, and the human in the loopThe limits of automation, the danger of over-reliance on tech, and why human judgment remains essential.30:30 – 36:30 | Rules, loopholes, and malicious complianceHow overly detailed rulebooks create loopholes — and why purpose and principles offer a better basis for accountability.36:30 – 40:30 | The Costco exampleA powerful illustration of simplicity: four ethical principles that employees can actually understand and use.40:30 – 45:30 | Training, regulators, and unintended consequencesWhy blanket training requirements often miss the mark — and how enforcement agreements can accidentally undermine effectiveness.45:30 – 52:30 | Measuring culture and compliance effectivenessMoving beyond counting inputs to assessing outputs, including psychological safety, Speak Up systems, and cultural indicators.52:30 – 57:30 | Experimentation and learningWhy failed interventions aren’t failure — they’re information — and why compliance should be treated as an evolving experiment.57:30 – End | Reclaiming responsibilityA closing reflection on extrinsic motivation, “because I said so,” and why purpose-driven compliance offers a more human, defensible, and sustainable way forward.