Ep 239 - Community Woods with Susan Barker from Avon Needs Trees

This episode explores the fascinating world of loose parts in outdoor play, focusing on natural resources like trees, seeds, and bark. Discover criteria for selecting the best loose parts, the importance of seasonality, and creative ideas for outdoor activities.loose parts, outdoor play, natural resources, forest school, foraging, play ideas, nature-based learning key topicsCriteria for selecting loose partsSeasonality and availability of resourcesCreative uses of natural materials in play Guide to Loose Parts in Outdoor PlayHow to Choose the Best Natural Loose Parts for PlayChapters00:00 Echidna's Unique Anatomy03:36 Exploring Loose Parts Play06:35 Criteria for Loose Parts09:32 The Role of Volume and Rarity12:41 Malleability and Versatility in Loose Parts15:35 Sensory Experiences with Loose Parts18:36 Accessibility and Processing of Loose Parts21:33 The Value of Foraging for Loose Parts25:00 The Value of Foraging in Outdoor Play27:38 Functions of Loose Parts in Play30:17 Exploring the Best Loose Parts for Play33:13 The Debate on Non-Native Loose Parts37:14 The Role of Bark and Heavy Loose Parts40:37 Choosing the Right Materials for Den Building42:34 Dreaming Up the Perfect Mud Kitchen48:27 The Ecological Impact of Using Loose Parts51:41 Pod Sheep.mp4 resourcesNo Such Thing As A Fish Podcast - https://www.nosuchthingasafish.com/Scientists unravel the mystery of echidna's bizarre four-headed penis - https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00145-4Forest School Resources - https://www.forestschool.co.uk/Gum Trees and Bark Resources - https://www.britannica.com/plant/gum-treeConker Game and History - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conkers

Keywordsweather, play, philosophy, achievement, agency, creativity, metrics, education, value capture, qualitative assessmentSummaryIn this conversation, Lewis and Wem explore various themes surrounding play, philosophy, and the impact of metrics on society. They discuss the importance of play in fostering creativity and social connections, the differences between striving and achievement players, and the role of constraints in enhancing creativity. The conversation also delves into the concept of value capture, the influence of technology on perception, and the need for qualitative assessments in education. They conclude by reflecting on the importance of process over product and the future of education in relation to play.TakeawaysMud everywhere!The weather can be deceiving.Books can deeply engage us.Play has philosophical implications.Striving players focus on the process.Constraints can enhance creativity.Value capture influences our perceptions.Metrics can simplify complex ideas.Education often prioritizes quantifiable data.The process of play is more important than the outcome.TitlesExploring the Mud: Weather and PlayThe Philosophy of Play and Learning sound bites"There's mud everywhere!""This book is amazing!""The process is beautiful!"Chapters00:00 The Muddy Reality of Weather08:16 Exploring the Depths of Play and Philosophy11:08 Understanding Player Mindsets: Achievement vs. Striving14:22 Facilitating Play: Agency and Autonomy in Games17:24 The Role of Games in Social Dynamics20:15 Process Beauty in Games: The Art of Overcoming Obstacles23:06 The Purpose vs. Goal in Play: Social Connection Over Competition37:08 The Sensual Act of Information Management40:21 Nature Connection and Purpose43:35 Metrics, Value Capture, and Scoring Systems50:16 The Influence of Technology on Perception56:47 The Four Horsemen of Value Capture01:05:55 The Balance of Quantitative and Qualitative Metrics01:10:41 Exploring Pedagogies and Their Metrics

Keywordstree planting, community engagement, climate action, Avon Needs Trees, sustainable practices, tree care, volunteerism, Echo Wood, environmental awareness, biodiversitySummaryIn this engaging conversation, Wem speaks with Susan Barker from Avon Needs Trees about the importance of community tree planting and care. Susan shares her journey from academia to horticulture, highlighting the mission of Avon Needs Trees in combating climate change through woodland creation. They discuss the significance of community involvement, sustainable practices in tree care, and the emotional aspects of confronting climate change. The conversation also touches on the innovative Echo Wood project, which aims to create a living artwork through tree planting, and the importance of fostering connections with nature.TakeawaysSusan Barker transitioned from academia to horticulture due to stress and a desire to work with nature.Avon Needs Trees focuses on creating permanent woodlands to combat climate change and biodiversity loss.Community engagement is crucial for the success of tree planting initiatives.Sustainable tree care practices are essential for the long-term health of planted trees.Volunteers play a significant role in tree planting and care, fostering a sense of ownership.Echo Wood is a living artwork project that involves planting 365 trees in a circular design.Emotional well-being is supported through active participation in environmental initiatives.The organization emphasizes the importance of local actions in response to global climate issues.Conversations about climate change should balance despair with hope and actionable steps.The survival rate of trees planted by Avon Needs Trees is impressively high, averaging around 93%.Sound bites"The tree care is so meditative.""We want to have those conversations.""It's the little things that citizens do that matter."Chapters00:00 Introduction to Avon Needs Trees and Susan Barker07:39 Susan's Journey from Academia to Horticulture12:46 The Birth of Avon Needs Trees18:49 Land Acquisition and Community Engagement25:09 Tree Planting and Care Practices29:43 The Challenges of Tree Planting30:50 Creating a Community Woodland32:27 Survival Rates and Long-Term Care34:50 Engaging the Community41:44 Introducing Echo Wood49:22 Confronting Climate Change Emotionally01:00:21 Pod Cat.mp4

In this episode, Wem and Lewis explore the philosophical and societal implications of play, discussing how it shapes childhood development and adult behavior. They delve into the idea that play is not merely a preparation for adulthood but a vital part of life itself, influencing social interactions and personal growth. The conversation also touches on the impact of adult perceptions on children's play and the broader cultural narratives surrounding play.Keywordsplay, childhood development, adult behavior, social interactions, personal growth, societal perceptions, cultural narratives, essential play, children, adultsTakeawaysPlay is a vital part of life, not just preparation for adulthood.Adult perceptions can influence children's play experiences.Play shapes social interactions and personal growth.Cultural narratives impact how play is valued.Philosophical discussions on the essence of play are explored.Play is essential for both children and adults.The role of play in childhood development is multifaceted.Play can reflect societal issues and biases.Understanding play requires a holistic view of its impact.Play is a fundamental aspect of human experience.

SummaryFrom Westonbirt inspirations to field guides and plant-hunter epics, Lewis and Gemma pull 13 tree books and ask how reading changes woodland practice. Hear about ships with greenhouses, coppice cycles, charcoal burning, fungal networks, minimalist nursery design, mapping with old OS layers and LiDAR, plus a practitioner’s starter stack for ID and ethnobotany.SponsorsTENTSILESave 10% on tree tents and hammocks with code ForestChildren10 at checkout. Ideal for leaders who want flexible base-camp shelter without ground impact.Chris HollandExplore Chris’s 54-page Plant of the Week guide with songs, stories and QR videos. Use our affiliate link: https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcastKey takeawaysBooks are tools. Ideas on the page translate into better planning, richer invitations to play and clearer woodland decisions.History explains today’s woods. War, trade and enclosure shaped plantations and access.When the landscape is the resource you can need fewer add-ons.Mycorrhizal science challenges the clean slate approach to plantations. Diversity can feed young trees.A balanced shelf helps practitioners. Mix narrative inspiration, technical ID, land-use history and local mapping.Chapters00:00 Audio or video and how to follow along02:10 Westonbirt, tree hunters and why one book leads to three more06:40 Plant collectors, ships with greenhouses and species introductions11:20 Remarkable trees and the Douglas fir story15:20 Finding the Mother Tree and what fungal networks show us20:10 Managing woods for play, coppice cycles and charcoal25:40 Enclosure, disafforestation and the Western Rising rabbit hole30:40 Rackham, old OS maps and first steps with LiDAR35:30 Practitioner stack for sessions and ethnobotany40:50 Photos or illustrations for ID, trends in tree writing, the squirrel book wishBooks and resources mentionedThomas Pakenham — The Tree Hunters; Meetings with Remarkable TreesJohn Evelyn — Sylva, or a Discourse of Forest TreesSuzanne Simard — Finding the Mother TreePeter Wohlleben — The Hidden Life of TreesRichard Powers — The OverstoryOliver Rackham — Trees and Woodland in the British Landscape; The History of the CountrysideTristan Gooley — How to Read a TreeRay Mears — British Woodland: How to Explore the Secret World of Our ForestsRoger Phillips — UK wild plants and fungi photographic guidesChris Holland — Plant of the Week collectionHandy tools referencedOld OS map viewer for historical layersLiDAR overlays for spotting ridge and furrow, pits and platformsListen now🎧 Catch the full episode:Spotify: https://shorturl.at/4WdyIYouTube: https://shorturl.at/3qOUsApple: https://shorturl.at/FxfMFRSS: https://shorturl.at/A0kx9Stay in touchQuestions, feedback or collaboration: [email protected] hello on Instagram and Facebook. Tell us your favourite tree book or share a shelf photo and tag the show so we can reshare.SupportMore episodes and resources: theforestschoolpodcast.comBack the show from £2 a month: patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcastHashtags#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #NaturePlay #ReflectivePractice #TreeBooks

In this punchy, practice-rich episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis and Wem unpack The Land — a 2016 documentary about an adventure playground in Wrexham — as screened via the Boston Children’s Museum panel. They dig into filming that sits inside the play, what “looks like a dump” can signal to children, and how adventure playground philosophy intersects with Forest School when you factor in nature’s needs, community, and inclusion. From risk versus hazard to loose parts in public parks, it is a tour through culture, pedagogy, and what real autonomy feels like.🌟 Sponsors and supporter shout-outsWe are supported by TENTSILE. Forest School leaders and listeners get 10% off with code ForestChildren10 at checkout.We are also supported by Chris Holland. Grab his 54-page plant guide and more with our affiliate link: https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcastPatrons keep this going from just £2 per month. Thank you for keeping the lights on and the microphones warm.⏱ Chapter Timings00:00 Film on The Land and why it matters01:22 Naturalistic camera work and playworker voice03:20 UK playwork culture compared with the US context05:44 Feelings when play looks messy, what the environment signals08:19 Forest School versus adventure playgrounds, whose needs are held10:40 Risk and hazard, modelling assessment in the open12:59 Loose parts in public parks, barriers and “reset-able” spaces15:23 Community care, freedom with a nominated adult, less panopticon17:03 When children ignore the plan, ego checks for facilitators18:35 What we will read next, The Anxious Generation🌲 Keywordsadventure playgrounds, The Land documentary, playwork, Forest School practice, risk versus hazard, loose parts, inclusion, community play culture, environmental signalling, Boston Children’s Museum panel🔖 Hashtags#ForestSchool #Playwork #OutdoorEducation #LooseParts #ReflectivePractice🎧 Catch the full episode:Spotify: https://shorturl.at/4WdyIYouTube: https://shorturl.at/3qOUsApple: https://shorturl.at/FxfMFRSS: https://shorturl.at/A0kx9🌐 More Episodes and SupportListen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.comSupport the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcastFor questions, feedback, or collaboration: [email protected]

In this lively, idea-packed episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis and Wem chat with Dr Shelley Newstead about the roots and reality of playwork. Shelley traces adventure playgrounds from Sorensen in Denmark to Lady Allen in post-war Britain, then explains her PARS playwork model that helps adults articulate what they are doing and why. Expect thoughtful links to Forest School practice, clear language for talking to schools and parents, and practical insight on when to step in and when to stand back. They also tackle funding priorities, teens and play, and how to keep practice reflexive rather than nostalgic.SponsorsTENTSILE — Tree tents for educators and explorers. Listeners get 10% off with code ForestChildren10.Chris Holland — Nature connection resources including his 54-page plant guide. Use our affiliate link: https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast⏱ Chapter Timings00:00 – Cold open and the promise to keep it normal01:06 – Meet Dr Shelley Newstead and what playwork is really about03:18 – From practitioner to PhD and why articulation matters07:15 – A playwork perspective explained11:44 – Sorensen, Lady Allen, and the rise of adventure playgrounds18:26 – Grassroots growth and reinventing the wheel24:19 – The PARS model for articulating, developing, and evaluating practice32:37 – PARS hats for parents and practitioners44:17 – Forest School and playwork, overlap and differences51:41 – Funding fixed parks versus community play and provision for teens🌲 KeywordsPlaywork history, adventure playgrounds, Sorensen, Lady Allen, PARS model, reflexive practice, articulation of practice, Forest School and playwork, teen play, community provision🔖 Hashtags#ForestSchool #Playwork #OutdoorEducation #ReflectivePractice #ChildLedLearning🎧 Catch the full episode:Spotify: https://shorturl.at/4WdyIYouTube: https://shorturl.at/3qOUsApple: https://shorturl.at/FxfMFRSS: https://shorturl.at/A0kx9🌐 More Episodes & SupportListen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.comSupport the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcastFor questions, feedback, or collaboration: [email protected]

In this lively Ludo Botany special, we explore tree climbing as play, practice, and design. Lewis brings fresh research on branch collars, spacing, and load strength while Gemma brings lived experience on how different trees invite different kinds of movement. From laurel and rhododendron “nest” trees to coppice stools and swooping live-oak ramps, they unpack species, shapes, and access. The chat ranges across myths and heuristics, defender branches, orthotropic versus horizontal shoots, group dynamics in shared trees, how adult presence changes the climb, and why our bodies feel different in trees compared with ladders. It wraps with a community callout for your best natural loose parts for the next Ludo Botany episode. 🌳⏱ Chapter Timings00:44 – New cold open, studio fidgets, and scene-setting02:30 – Ludo Botany focus: tree climbing, research versus lived experience06:16 – Myths to mechanics: collar development, spacing, and those wrist-width rules12:34 – Trees on slopes, branch distribution, and what that means for access15:09 – Defender branches, orthotropic versus horizontal shoots, and bark wear20:19 – “Nest” trees and fallen logs: comfort, horizontality, and play worlds23:14 – Species and cultivation: coppice, mini-pollards, and live-oak style ramps33:25 – Adult gaze, crowding, etiquette, and height as status in shared trees37:30 – Bodies and brains: startle reflex, evolution, and why trees beat ladders54:31 – Next up: loose parts callout and how to send in voice notes🌲 Keywords: Ludo Botany, tree climbing, branch collar strength, defender branches, orthotropic shoots, coppice and pollard, live oaks, laurel and rhododendron nests, group dynamics, inclusive play design🎧 Catch the full episode:Spotify: https://shorturl.at/4WdyIYouTube: https://shorturl.at/3qOUsApple: https://shorturl.at/FxfMFRSS: https://shorturl.at/A0kx9🔖 Hashtags:#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #NaturePlay #TreeClimbing #LudoBotany🌐 More Episodes & Support:Listen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.comSupport the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcastFor questions, feedback, or collaboration: [email protected]

In this lively, reflective episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis, Wem, and guest Lily pick apart the famous “three look afters” and ask a bigger question: who’s allowed to fail at Forest School, and how do we help people fail well? From cartilage kneecaps and Mr Potato Head jokes to space holding, autonomy versus community, and that dreaded “shit spoon” moment, they explore boundaries, blame versus shame, and how to create conditions where struggle leads to learning rather than humiliation. Expect practical facilitation nuance, philosophical detours, and a few perfect tangents about tracksuits.⏱ Chapter Timings00:00 – Cold open: kneecaps, bandagraphs, and Mr Potato Heads03:14 – Axing the “three look afters”: demands, agency, and who can fail06:06 – Flattened hierarchies or hidden authority: responsibility in practice10:38 – Boundaries, safety, and culture shift for new groups14:49 – Space holding, low-demand setups, and modelling altruism21:27 – Failing well: conditions for struggle without humiliation25:22 – Nunchi: reading the room and tailoring support28:56 – Relational failure, shame versus guilt, and belonging49:22 – Process over product: the “shit spoon” and reframing success1:05:00 – Lily’s trainings, FSA roadshows, and resources🌲 KeywordsForest School agreements, failing well, autonomy vs community, space holding, shame vs blame, boundaries and safety, facilitator judgement, process over product, reflective practice, learner agency🔖 Hashtags#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #ReflectivePractice #CommunityLearning #NaturePlay🎧 Catch the full episode:Spotify: https://shorturl.at/4WdyIYouTube: https://shorturl.at/3qOUsApple: https://shorturl.at/FxfMFRSS: https://shorturl.at/A0kx9🌐 More Episodes & SupportListen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.comSupport the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcastFor questions, feedback, or collaboration: [email protected] in this episode:Animated “What is failure?” video discussed: https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1CVvtkueZU/?mibextid=wwXIfr

In this lively, idea packed episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis and Wem move from Halloween chatter to a full nature reset. Wales waterfalls, Pen y Fan, Regent’s Park squirrels, and the deer rut at Richmond Park set the scene for a deeper dive. Lewis picks up Ludo Botany again and invites listeners to help build a new series, starting with tree climbing. The pair then unpack a Finnish trial that “rewilded” kindergartens with real forest floor to boost children’s microbiomes, compare new Australian findings, and explore equity, ethics, hygiene practice, and culture change. A new original song appears too. It is written from the viewpoint of an oak tree watching its acorns become craft supplies. 🌳⏱ Chapter Timings00:00 – Patreon intro and scene setting01:12 – Halloween, Wales waterfalls, Pen y Fan, London parks, and the deer rut07:02 – Ludo Botany returns and a listener call out for tree climbing nominations09:21 – New song premiere about acorns and seasonal crafting13:28 – Finland’s “forest floor in preschool” study and children’s microbiomes20:12 – Australian follow up and wider wellbeing gains beyond health22:55 – Mud as equity and even an academic intervention for learners26:30 – Ethics and longevity of transplanted soil and maintenance questions33:22 – Practicalities in settings: hygiene, thresholds, roles, and risk benefit35:56 – Alternatives: link settings to real woodlands and use green hedges to cut pollution🌲 KeywordsForest School, microbiome play, rewilded kindergartens, Finnish early years, Australian study, loose parts, hygiene thresholds, equity in education, tree climbing, Ludo Botany, Richmond Park deer rut, Welsh waterfalls🔖 Hashtags#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #NaturePlay #EarlyYears #ChildDevelopment🎧 Catch the full episode:Spotify: https://shorturl.at/4WdyIYouTube: https://shorturl.at/3qOUsApple: https://shorturl.at/FxfMFRSS: https://shorturl.at/A0kx9📚 Article and studies mentionedGuardian feature: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/29/soil-sandpit-children-dirty-biodiversity-finnish-nurseries-research-microbes-bacteria-aoeFinnish intervention study (Science Advances, 2020): https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aba2578Open-access version: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7556828/Australian childcare soil microbiome study (2024): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38583619/Flinders news summary: https://news.flinders.edu.au/blog/2024/06/18/dose-of-dirt-for-healthy-play/On playground pollution barriers with hedges: https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/roadside-hedges-can-reduce-harmful-ultrafine-particle-pollution-around-schools and https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-18509-w🌐 More Episodes & SupportListen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.comSupport the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcastFor questions, feedback, or collaboration: [email protected]