#219: Salesforce legend Phil Cleary on Why Sales Forecasts Are Breaking in 2026, and why Revenue Enablement Fails Without Commercial Architecture

If you're competing against companies with massive marketing budgets, paid ads alone won’t win.In this episode of The B2B Playbook, we sit down with Alex Bedwani, founder of PetsOnMe, to unpack how he built growth using a B2B2C marketing strategy instead of competing head-to-head in B2C channels.In industries like insurance, the biggest brands dominate paid channels. They can outspend you on ads, outbid you on keywords, and convert better because people already trust them.So Alex took a different path.Instead of competing directly, he built partnerships with associations and corporations to distribute pet insurance to their employees and members.We break down exactly how the B2B2C strategy works, how to land partnerships, and how to activate them so they actually generate revenue.Tune in and learn:+ Why competing head-on in B2C markets is often a losing game+ How to use partnerships as a distribution channel+ The activation tactics that turn partnerships into real revenueIf you're a founder or marketer trying to grow in a competitive category, this episode will change how you think about distribution.-----------------------------------------------------🔗 Links + CTAs-----------------------------------------------------🎓 Join our Demand Generation Program: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-course🧠 Learn how to drive revenue across your organisation with CRO School: https://theb2bplaybook.com/cro-school💼 Need help running your own LinkedIn Thought Leadership Ads? https://theb2bplaybook.com/linkedin-ads-agency-----------------------------------------------------SUBSCRIBE to our channel: / @theb2bplaybookSUBSCRIBE to our newsletter: https://theb2bplaybook.com/newsletterGET the latest CONTENT: https://theb2bplaybook.com/-----------------------------------------------------00:00 Why Small Brands Lose in Paid Acquisition00:35 Competing Against Big Insurance Brands02:00 Why Alex Started PetsOnMe03:30 The Hidden Monopoly in Pet Insurance05:30 Why B2C Marketing Was Impossible to Win07:00 The Real Cost Advantage Big Brands Have09:00 The Pivot: Discovering the B2B2C Marketing Strategy10:00 What B2B2C Looks Like in Practice12:50 Turning Pet Insurance Into an Employee Benefit15:00 Finding the Right Corporate Partners17:00 Why Signing the Partnership Is Only 10% of the Work19:00 The Key to Getting HR Managers Interested20:50 The Fitness First Example of B2B2C Growth22:00 How to Stay Top of Mind With Corporate Partners24:00 The 3-Way Win That Makes B2B2C Work26:00 The Due Diligence Corporates Will Do On You28:00 Activating Members After the Partnership Is Signed29:00 Creative Activation: The Cutest Dog Competition31:00 Why Data Is Harder in B2B2C Partnerships33:00 Using Events and Talks to Drive Signups35:00 Why Face-to-Face Still Converts Best36:30 Personalised Marketing That Converts39:00 Managing 70+ Partnerships Without Chaos40:00 When to Kill a Partnership Quickly42:00 The Most Important Rule in B2B2C Partnerships-----------------------------------------------------👥 Are you a B2B marketer in a small team??💰 Need to bring in more revenue for your company (so sales and your boss love you??)Get the:🔹 strategy🔹 templates🔹 toolsSo you have everything you need to drive more revenue for your brand.See why other B2B marketers like you love The B2B IncubatorCheck out: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-courseS08 E222 - The B2B Playbook#b2b #b2bmarketing #digitalmarketing #demandgeneration #b2b2c #partnerships

If you’ve ever struggled to defend brand budget in a performance-obsessed company — this episode is for you.We sat down with Matt Maynard, VP of Brand Advertising & Comms at Asana, to break down how brand actually drives growth — and how to measure it properly inside a B2B business.This isn’t theory. It’s a practical framework for small teams trying to prove brand works.We unpack:- Why brand keeps losing to performance- Why “consideration” is usually measured wrong- How to use Category Entry Points (CEPs)- The 95:5 rule explained simply- And how to measure mental availability without a massive budgetTune in and learn:- Why growth is driven by memory, not persuasion- The 3 brand metrics every B2B team should track- How to turn brand into a performance engineIf you’re in a B2B team trying to punch above your weight, this is mandatory viewing.-----------------------------------------------------🔗 Links + CTAs-----------------------------------------------------🎓 Join our Demand Generation Program: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-course🧠 Learn how to drive revenue across your organisation with CRO School: https://theb2bplaybook.com/cro-school💼 Need help running your own LinkedIn Thought Leadership Ads? https://theb2bplaybook.com/linkedin-ads-agency-----------------------------------------------------SUBSCRIBE to our channel: / @theb2bplaybook SUBSCRIBE to our newsletter: https://theb2bplaybook.com/newsletterGET the latest CONTENT: https://theb2bplaybook.com/-----------------------------------------------------00:00 Why Brand Keeps Losing Budget in B2B02:10 Brand vs Performance: Vibes vs System04:00 Why Finance Doesn’t Fund “Brand”07:10 The Science Behind How Brands Actually Grow10:00 Brand = Memory (Not Campaigns)12:30 Why Loyalty & Word of Mouth Don’t Drive Growth14:00 What Are Category Entry Points (CEPs)?17:00 Why Small Brands Grow Slower20:30 How to Measure Brand Properly in B2B25:00 Breaking Consideration Into 3 Metrics30:00 Measuring Brand Without a Big Budget31:40 The 95:5 Rule Explained34:00 Brand Lift vs Vanity Metrics36:00 Brand & Performance Aren’t Enemies37:40 What Brand Teams Should Report41:10 Protecting Consistency43:00 The 3 Jobs of Brand Marketing44:50 How Small Teams Can Start Today-----------------------------------------------------👥 Are you a B2B marketer in a small team??💰 Need to bring in more revenue for your company (so sales and your boss love you??)Get the:🔹 strategy🔹 templates🔹 toolsSo you have everything you need to drive more revenue for your brand.See why other B2B marketers like you love The B2B IncubatorCheck out: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-courseS08 E221 - The B2B Playbook#b2b #b2bmarketing #digitalmarketing #brandmarketing #demandgeneration

In this video, we dive into why B2B partnerships are one of the most powerful (and underused) growth strategies in 2026, and how to get your first one off the ground.We cover:Why partnerships act as a trust shortcut with your target audience, how rising paid media costs (up ~14% per year) are making partnerships more essential than ever, and the exact 4-step framework to land your first B2B partnership.If you are a B2B marketer or founder struggling with rising customer acquisition costs and want a more affordable, high-trust way to reach your ideal customers.Tune in and learn:- Why partnerships transfer trust from aligned brands to your audience- How overlapping ICPs make partnerships more effective than cold outreach- Why AI-generated content is making owned audiences even more valuable- The importance of executive buy-in and clear KPIs to make partnerships stick- Brian's #1 tip: don't go for the big fish first. Start with complementary, similarly-sized partners- The 4-step action framework: identify, shortlist (top 3–5), reach out, and go deep-----------------------------------------------------🔗 Links + CTAs-----------------------------------------------------🎓 Join our Demand Generation Program: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-course🧠 Learn how to drive revenue across your organization with CRO School: https://theb2bplaybook.com/cro-school💼 Need help running your own LinkedIn Thought Leadership Ads? https://theb2bplaybook.com/linkedin-ads-agency-----------------------------------------------------SUBSCRIBE to our channel: / @theb2bplaybook SUBSCRIBE to our newsletter: https://theb2bplaybook.com/newsletterGET the latest CONTENT: https://theb2bplaybook.com/-----------------------------------------------------Timestamps:00:00 – Why partnerships are a trust shortcut00:56 – Welcome to Season 8 (first in-person recording!)02:14 – The Five Bs Framework recap10:52 – Why noise is getting worse (and what to do about it)12:18 – The real-life analogy: partnerships as personal introductions14:24 – Rising paid media costs & the 14% CAC benchmark16:14 – How partnerships help share distribution costs18:08 – Why AI makes trust-based channels even more important20:04 – Key ingredients: overlapping ICP & give-and-get relationships24:22 – Getting executive buy-in & setting clear KPIs26:13 – The fastest way to kill a partnership29:14 – The 4-step action framework to get started this week-----------------------------------------------------👥 Are you a B2B marketer in a small team??💰 Need to bring in more revenue for your company (so sales and your boss love you??)Get the:🔹 strategy🔹 templates🔹 toolsSo you have everything you need to drive more revenue for your brand.See why other B2B marketers like you love The B2B IncubatorCheck out: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-courseS08 E220 - The B2B Playbook#b2b #partnerships #b2bmarketing

Revenue leaders don’t trust their pipeline anymore.In this episode, we sit down with Phil Cleary – 20+ year Salesforce veteran and co-lead of the Revenue Enablement Society – to unpack what’s really happening inside revenue teams right now.We break down why forecasts are slipping, why pipeline feels fabricated, and why traditional sales training isn’t fixing behaviour.This is a deep dive into revenue enablement strategy at the leadership level.We cover:+ Why buyers are frozen (FOBO from FOMO)+ The 2x2 coaching model every sales leader should use+ Why “software with a service” is the future of SaaS+ How behaviour, identity, and mindset drive real adoption+ Why you are your calendarIf you lead sales, marketing, or revenue teams – this conversation will challenge how you think about enablement.Tune in and learn:+ How to fix forecast uncertainty+ How to build behaviour-led performance+ How to align revenue teams around real commercial oversightIf you care about predictable revenue, commercial common sense, and long-term alignment – this one’s essential.-----------------------------------------------------🔗 Links + CTAs-----------------------------------------------------🎓 Join our Demand Generation Program: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-course🧠 Learn how to drive revenue across your organisation with CRO School: https://theb2bplaybook.com/cro-school💼 Need help running your own LinkedIn Thought Leadership Ads? https://theb2bplaybook.com/linkedin-ads-agency-----------------------------------------------------SUBSCRIBE to our channel: / @theb2bplaybook SUBSCRIBE to our newsletter: https://theb2bplaybook.com/newsletterGET the latest CONTENT: https://theb2bplaybook.com/-----------------------------------------------------00:00 Why Revenue Leaders Are Losing Confidence in Their Forecast04:40 FOMO vs FOBO: Why Buyers Are Frozen08:10 Is Your Pipeline Fake?11:20 Revenue Retention Is Changing Sales Behaviour14:00 Why Commercial Handover Is Broken16:20 The Smash-and-Grab Sales Problem19:50 The 2x2 Coaching Framework22:30 Toxic High Performers25:00 What Good Behaviour Looks Like29:30 Why Training Fails31:00 The Kirkpatrick Model33:10 Specialisation in Sales Teams36:10 Thinking Like a Franchise Owner39:40 You Are Your Calendar42:10 Growth Mindset in Revenue Teams48:20 SaaS vs Software With a Service54:30 Crossing the Chasm01:00:10 Revenue Enablement Society01:04:00 The Art and Science of Leadership-----------------------------------------------------👥 Are you a B2B marketer in a small team??💰 Need to bring in more revenue for your company (so sales and your boss love you??)Get the:🔹 strategy🔹 templates🔹 toolsSo you have everything you need to drive more revenue for your brand.See why other B2B marketers like you love The B2B IncubatorCheck out: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-courseS08 E219 - The B2B Playbook#b2b #b2bmarketing #digitalmarketing #demandgeneration #salesleadership #salesadvice #revenueenablement

Most B2B content looks polished. But almost none of it gets remembered.In this episode, we break down why humour isn’t a creative risk in B2B.It’s a strategic advantage.We’re joined by Luke Winter, founder of Deadpan and one of the few people proving that B2B marketing with humour drives memory, brand lift, and real revenue.Luke shares how a single funny B2B video generated over $300K in sales, why AI-generated content is creating sameness, and how brands can use comedy frameworks to stand out without needing a massive budget.We also unpack:+ Why most B2B brands confuse looking professional with being effective+ The science behind entertaining ads and higher conversion rates+ How to turn real customer pain points into memorable content+ Five practical frameworks to generate funny B2B ideas+ How to build a sitcom-style content series for your brand+ How to get CEO buy-in without calling it “comedy”Tune in and learn:+ Why humour works better than features in B2B+ How to create distinctive brand memory in a world of AI slop+ How to apply comedy without damaging credibilityIf you’re a B2B marketer trying to stand out, build trust, and stop blending in, this episode is essential.-----------------------------------------------------🔗 Links + CTAs-----------------------------------------------------🎓 Join our Demand Generation Program: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-course🧠 Learn how to drive revenue across your organisation with CRO School: https://theb2bplaybook.com/cro-school💼 Need help running your own LinkedIn Thought Leadership Ads? https://theb2bplaybook.com/linkedin-ads-agency-----------------------------------------------------SUBSCRIBE to our channel: / @theb2bplaybook SUBSCRIBE to our newsletter: https://theb2bplaybook.com/newsletterGET the latest CONTENT: https://theb2bplaybook.com/-----------------------------------------------------00:00 Why Humour Is a Smart B2B Brand Strategy01:10 Why B2B Comedy Is Untapped02:00 AI vs Memorability03:20 Why Corporate Videos Fail04:10 The Video That Changed Everything06:00 From 234 Views to $300K07:00 The Showmanship Era08:10 Why B2B Content Gets Ignored09:10 Showmanship vs Salesmanship10:00 Turning Pain into Comedy11:30 The Data Behind Funny Ads13:00 Why Humour Isn’t Risky15:00 The Customer Is the Hero16:40 Comedy Frameworks20:20 Comedic Displacement23:20 Opposites in Comedy26:00 Metaphors That Work28:00 Parody and Associations31:40 Testing with Memes34:30 Sitcom-Style B2B Content36:50 Getting CEO Buy-In-----------------------------------------------------👥 Are you a B2B marketer in a small team??💰 Need to bring in more revenue for your company (so sales and your boss love you??)Get the:🔹 strategy🔹 templates🔹 toolsSo you have everything you need to drive more revenue for your brand.See why other B2B marketers like you love The B2B IncubatorCheck out: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-courseS08 E218 - The B2B Playbook#b2b #b2bmarketing #brandstrategy #humourinmarketing #demandgeneration

Most small B2B teams know product marketing matters.Very few know how to make it work without specialists or big budgets.In this episode, we’re joined by Kayla Medica, creator of the Medica Method, to break down how product marketing actually works inside lean B2B teams.We unpack what breaks when no one owns product marketing, how to align product, sales, and leadership around one story, and why pricing is just as much a product marketing problem as it is a commercial one.Kayla also explains why most B2B personas fail, how to build real feedback loops with sales, and how small teams can punch above their weight without burning out.Tune in and learn:+ How product marketing really works in small B2B teams+ What product marketers should say no to (and when)+ Why pricing and positioning are inseparableIf you’re in a small B2B team trying to create consistency between marketing, sales, and product, this episode is a must-watch.-----------------------------------------------------🔗 Links + CTAs-----------------------------------------------------🎓 Join our Demand Generation Program: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-course🧠 Learn how to drive revenue across your organisation with CRO School: https://theb2bplaybook.com/cro-school💼 Need help running your own LinkedIn Thought Leadership Ads? https://theb2bplaybook.com/linkedin-ads-agency-----------------------------------------------------SUBSCRIBE to our channel: / @theb2bplaybookSUBSCRIBE to our newsletter: https://theb2bplaybook.com/newsletterGET the latest CONTENT: https://theb2bplaybook.com/-----------------------------------------------------00:00 Why Product Marketing Breaks in Small Teams02:10 What Happens When No One Owns Product Marketing04:16 Product Marketing Explained05:23 The Medica Method07:46 Why Small Teams Can’t Pause Work09:11 Who Product Marketing Aligns With10:52 Executive Buy-In12:00 Net-New vs Expansion Growth14:15 Product Marketing Boundaries17:50 Fixing Sales Feedback Loops23:50 Why B2B Personas Fail29:50 Pricing as Product Marketing35:40 Showing Pricing on Your Website38:40 Taylor Swift Pricing Lessons42:30 Status Signalling in B2B46:00 Product Marketing as a Career-----------------------------------------------------👥 Are you a B2B marketer in a small team??💰 Need to bring in more revenue for your company (so sales and your boss love you??)Get the:🔹 strategy🔹 templates🔹 toolsSo you have everything you need to drive more revenue for your brand.See why other B2B marketers like you love The B2B IncubatorCheck out: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-courseS08 E217 - The B2B Playbook#b2b #productmarketing #b2bmarketing #pricingstrategy #gotomarket

Most B2B teams rely on founder energy – until it stops working.In this episode, we sit down with Adam Holmgren, CEO and co-founder of Fibber, to break down how founder-led marketing actually works – and why it hits a ceiling faster than most teams expect.Adam walks us through how he turned his personal LinkedIn presence into early traction, why founder-only growth stalled after the first 50 customers, and how he built a system that blends founder trust with brand memory.This is a practical breakdown of a modern founder-led marketing strategy – without fluff, vanity metrics, or burnout.Tune in and learn:+ Why people buy from founders before they buy products+ How to scale founder content beyond personal reach+ Why Thought Leadership Ads work – and where they fall short+ How brand memory unlocks the next stage of growthIf you’re a B2B marketer or founder trying to turn visibility into pipeline, this episode shows how to bridge founder energy into a real brand engine.-----------------------------------------------------🔗 Links + CTAs-----------------------------------------------------🎓 Join our Demand Generation Program: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-course🧠 Learn how to drive revenue across your organisation with CRO School: https://theb2bplaybook.com/cro-school💼 Need help running your own LinkedIn Thought Leadership Ads? https://theb2bplaybook.com/linkedin-ads-agency-----------------------------------------------------SUBSCRIBE to our channel: / @theb2bplaybookSUBSCRIBE to our newsletter: https://theb2bplaybook.com/newsletterGET the latest CONTENT: https://theb2bplaybook.com/-----------------------------------------------------00:00 Why good content dies without distribution01:00 Why founders are the strongest distribution engine02:20 Meet Adam Holmgren and the Fibber story03:40 How B2B buyers actually make decisions05:00 Why SaaS competition forces founder-led marketing06:30 Posting before you even have a product07:50 How Adam launched with built-in trust09:00 The ceiling of founder-led growth10:30 Why founder reach eventually stalls11:45 The brand trust problem no one talks about13:00 Founder-led marketing is not enough14:10 Adam’s founder brand framework explained17:00 Using Thought Leader Ads to break out of your network18:40 Why Thought Leader Ads fail to build brand20:00 The Pink Lion and brand memory27:40 The four engines of growth-----------------------------------------------------👥 Are you a B2B marketer in a small team??💰 Need to bring in more revenue for your company (so sales and your boss love you??)Get the:🔹 strategy🔹 templates🔹 toolsSo you have everything you need to drive more revenue for your brand.See why other B2B marketers like you love The B2B IncubatorCheck out: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-courseS08 E216 - The B2B Playbook#b2b #b2bmarketing #demandgeneration #founderled #thoughtleadership #linkedinads #linkedin

B2B Brand Strategy for Enterprise Sales: How Brand Opens Doors Marketing Can’tMost B2B marketing never reaches enterprise decision-makers.This episode shows why brand is the bridge sales actually needs.In this session from our Full Circle conference, we’re joined by Ari Yablok, Head of Brand at Island.Ari breaks down how brand becomes the permission slip that lets sales into rooms traditional marketing can’t access.We unpack why enterprise executives ignore most marketing, why big promises backfire, and how positioning, personality, and story create trust before the first sales call.This isn’t about logos or colours.It’s about building a B2B brand strategy that makes enterprise buyers lean in instead of tune out. Tune in and learn:+ Why enterprise buyers are sceptical by default+ How brand positioning creates real differentiation+ How story and personality shorten sales cycles If you’re selling to senior decision-makers and struggling to get attention, this episode shows why brand isn’t optional.It’s the door-opener. -----------------------------------------------------🔗 Links + CTAs-----------------------------------------------------🎓 Join our Demand Generation Program: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-course🧠 Learn how to drive revenue across your organisation with CRO School: https://theb2bplaybook.com/cro-school💼 Need help running your own LinkedIn Thought Leadership Ads? https://theb2bplaybook.com/linkedin-ads-agency-----------------------------------------------------SUBSCRIBE to our channel: / @theb2bplaybook SUBSCRIBE to our newsletter: https://theb2bplaybook.com/newsletterGET the latest CONTENT: https://theb2bplaybook.com/-----------------------------------------------------00:00 Why Brand Opens Doors Sales Can’t01:20 Why Enterprise Executives Ignore Marketing03:50 The Real Cost of Selling Software Internally06:10 Why Generic Messaging Fails08:20 The Hidden Risk Buyers See10:40 Why Features Don’t Convince13:10 Brand as Infrastructure15:30 Positioning Sweet Spot17:40 Why SaaS Positioning Sounds the Same19:50 Great vs Generic AI Examples21:50 Brand Personality as a Moat24:10 Archetypes That Differentiate26:10 Storytelling That Creates Order29:10 How Buyers Really Decide31:50 Island Brand Case Study36:40 Relevance That Resonates39:10 Thought Leadership That Pre-Sells40:40 Trust Signals That Shorten Sales Cycles43:00 Brand for Small Teams -----------------------------------------------------👥 Are you a B2B marketer in a small team??💰 Need to bring in more revenue for your company (so sales and your boss love you??)Get the:🔹 strategy🔹 templates🔹 toolsSo you have everything you need to drive more revenue for your brand.See why other B2B marketers like you love The B2B IncubatorCheck out: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-courseS08 E215 - The B2B Playbook#b2b #b2bmarketing #brandstrategy #enterprisesales #demandgeneration

Most B2B content fails because it isn’t built on a strategy.In this episode of The B2B Playbook, we break down a practical B2B content strategy framework and explain why most content gets created, published, and forgotten.We unpack why “adding value” isn’t enough, why engagement metrics are misleading, and how to anchor your content to a clear point of view so it actually supports revenue.We also share the 3-question Point of View framework we teach inside The B2B Incubator, and explain how your content should naturally lead to your product or service without burning trust.Tune in and learn:+ Why most B2B content strategies fail+ How to anchor content to a clear point of view+ How to make your product the logical conclusion of your cIf you’re a small B2B marketing team under pressure to deliver pipeline, this framework will help you stop wasting effort and start compounding impact.-----------------------------------------------------🔗 Links + CTAs-----------------------------------------------------🎓 Join our Demand Generation Program: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-course🧠 Learn how to drive revenue across your organisation with CRO School: https://theb2bplaybook.com/cro-school💼 Need help running your own LinkedIn Thought Leadership Ads? https://theb2bplaybook.com/linkedin-ads-agency-----------------------------------------------------SUBSCRIBE to our channel: / @theb2bplaybook SUBSCRIBE to our newsletter: https://theb2bplaybook.com/newsletterGET the latest CONTENT: https://theb2bplaybook.com/-----------------------------------------------------00:00 Why Most B2B Content Fails00:31 What This B2B Content Strategy Framework Solves01:10 The 5 Bs Framework Explained02:00 Content for Content’s Sake Is the Real Issue03:10 The Pressure That Breaks B2B Content04:30 Why “Add Value” Isn’t a Strategy05:40 Engagement Without Memory Is Wasted06:10 Lead Gen vs Demand Gen Content07:10 Should You Chase High-Volume Topics?08:05 The 95% of Buyers Most Content Ignores09:20 What a Real Content Strategy Should Do10:00 Making Your Product the Logical Conclusion11:00 Why Random AI Content Breaks Strategy12:20 When Content Doesn’t Have to Sell13:30 The 3-Question POV Framework15:00 Challenging Broken B2B Assumptions16:30 Why Timing Matters to Your ICP17:30 Mapping POV to the 5 Stages of Awareness18:40 The One Rule Every B2B Content Strategy Needs19:10 Turning Content Into a Growth Engine-----------------------------------------------------👥 Are you a B2B marketer in a small team??💰 Need to bring in more revenue for your company (so sales and your boss love you??)Get the:🔹 strategy🔹 templates🔹 toolsSo you have everything you need to drive more revenue for your brand.See why other B2B marketers like you love The B2B IncubatorCheck out: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-courseS07 E214 - The B2B Playbook#b2b #b2bmarketing #contentstrategy #demandgeneration #thoughtleadership

Closed Circuit Selling: Why the Funnel Is Breaking Your GTMMost go-to-market teams aren’t failing on effort. They’re failing on architecture.In this episode, we sit down with Charles Needham (co-author of Cold Call Algo) alongside Adem Manderovic (CRO School) to break down why the linear funnel is the biggest sacred cow in sales, and why Closed Circuit Selling is the better model for modern outbound.We unpack incentives, silos, CAC payback insanity, and why “meetings booked” became a broken religion. Then we get practical. How to run outbound as market learning. How to capture timing signals. And how to build feedback loops that actually make marketing, sales, and customer success stronger together.Tune in and learn:+ Why buyer journeys are non-linear, and funnels create blind spots+ How to shift from meetings quotas to conversation-driven market validation+ Why intent data can’t replace first-party conversationsIf you’re a B2B marketer or revenue leader, this is the blueprint for building a GTM system that compounds instead of churns.-----------------------------------------------------🔗 Links + CTAs-----------------------------------------------------🧠 Learn how to drive revenue across your organisation with CRO School: https://theb2bplaybook.com/cro-school🎓 Join our Demand Generation Program: https://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-course💼 Need help running your own LinkedIn Thought Leadership Ads? https://theb2bplaybook.com/linkedin-ads-agency-----------------------------------------------------🧑‍🎓ACCESS our B2B COURSES: https://theb2bplaybook.com/courses📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theb2bplaybook📩 Newsletter: https://theb2bplaybook.com/newsletter/📚 Latest content: https://theb2bplaybook.com/-----------------------------------------------------00:00 The “Sacred Cow”: Why the Linear Funnel Breaks Reality01:00 Who’s Charles Needham (And Why He Thinks Like a Quant)04:30 From Mortgage Bonds to CRMs: Seeing Sales as a Database07:00 The Moment He Realised “Meetings Booked” Is a Trap09:10 Closed Loop Continuity vs Funnel Checklists11:40 What Silos Destroy: Feedback Loops That Never Make It Back14:10 CAC Payback Madness: When “Growth” Becomes Insanity17:10 The Conversations Model: Comp People for Learning, Not Meetings20:05 Predictable Revenue Misread: “Market Development” Got Lost21:00 VC Algebra vs Real Buyers: “The Customer Doesn’t Exist”28:10 The 2008 Analogy: Incentives Create Fragile Systems32:20 Intent Data Hot Take: “Or You Could Call Them”36:00 The Guitar Demo: What “Cataloguing” Really Means39:00 “Talk to Everybody”: The Outbound Belief Most CROs Don’t Hold41:45 Fixing the Root: Change Comp, or Nothing Changes48:10 Market Validation vs Cataloguing: The Language Problem56:35 AI Didn’t Fix Outbound. It Scaled the Spam Cannon59:30 What Works Next: Follow the Underpriced Channel (Then Move)1:06:00 Cold Call Algo: The “Unplanned Communication” Thesis-----------------------------------------------------👥 Are you a B2B marketer in a small team??💰 Need to bring in more revenue for your company (so sales and your boss love you??)Get the:🔹 strategy🔹 templates🔹 toolsSo you have everything you need to drive more revenue for your brand.See why other B2B marketers like you love The B2B Incubatorhttps://theb2bplaybook.com/demand-generation-courseS07 E213 - The B2B Playbook#b2b #b2bmarketing #digitalmarketing #demandgeneration #outboundsales