How to Build a More Profitable Retainer Model for Your Agency

Points of Interest00:00–01:02 – Introduction: Marcel welcomes Stephen, a veteran agency operator, author, and CEO of Predictive ROI focused on helping agencies sell more by adding value.01:02–03:09 – Who Predictive ROI Serves: Stephen explains their exclusive focus on agencies and their expertise in business development through authority positioning and structured nurture.03:09–05:18 – Systems Mindset Origin Story: From Air Force missile silos to agency life, Stephen shares how life-or-death procedures taught him the power of process in selling.06:21–07:30 – Why Go-to-Market Matters Now: With AI as a new disruption, positioning and trust creation become mission-critical as channels get noisier.07:30–11:30 – Trust Starts Below Zero: Referencing market skepticism, Stephen argues prospects begin in “distrust,” so sellers must over-prove capability through repeated value.11:30–15:43 – Expertise vs. Empty Positioning: Marcel critiques “lipstick positioning” and argues public demonstrations of expertise are required to restore credibility.17:06–20:30 – Power of Long-Form Content: Both highlight unscripted, long-form conversations as a stress test that builds trust better than polished sound bites.20:49–23:55 – Step 1: Choose a Narrow Who: The framework begins by declaring a niche, rejecting generic messaging, and embracing focus as the path to demand.23:55–28:27 – Step 2: Name the Methodology: Codify problems, pillars, and levers; document common mistakes and strategic moves so teaching and delivery match.30:18–33:51 – Trust Architecture: Help Me Understand: First sales meeting is a five-question diagnostic about the prospect’s priorities, obstacles, and market—no pitching.34:08–39:53 – Align & Prescribe → Meet & Greet: Use a self-scoring “Focus Finder,” then have strategists teach the system, add proof and ROI, and gain conceptual agreement.40:24–48:00 – Content Blueprint & Consistency: Turn the methodology into pillars (Grow, Nurture, Sell), create cornerstone content, repurpose across channels, and show up weekly.Show NotesEdelman Trust Barometer reportPredictiveroi.com/resourcesStephen’s LinkedInLove this Episode?Leave us a review here. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Points of Interest00:00 – 01:30 – Introduction: Marcel welcomes Parakeeto’s Kristen Kelly back to discuss a recurring misconception in agency operations—the belief that a better project management or PSA tool can solve profit management challenges.01:30 – 03:25 – The PM Tool “Silver Bullet” Myth: Kristen explains how leaders and PMs often adopt new tools to tame chaos, believing marketing promises that they’ll also solve utilization, capacity, and profitability issues.03:25 – 06:00 – Why Agencies Fall for It: Marcel and Kristen note that while PM tools are valuable, they’re often oversold as full profit-management systems. Agencies end up frustrated by missing fields, tool quirks, and data limitations.06:00 – 08:45 – Hitting the Wall: Many teams find themselves with tools that improve delivery workflows but still leave them unable to make key financial or operational decisions because the data remains fragmented across systems.08:45 – 11:43 – Introducing the Framework → Data → Process Model: Marcel outlines Parakeeto’s three-part sequence for solving profit management: define the framework (metrics and formulas), structure the data, and establish ongoing processes for hygiene and cadence.11:43 – 12:46 – Why Sequencing Matters: Without first defining what needs to be measured, agencies make poor configuration choices in PM tools—creating rework, confusion, and endless tool migrations.12:46 – 15:19 – Defining the Framework: Agencies must precisely define how metrics like utilization, delivery margin, and project profitability are calculated, and understand the relationships between those measures before configuring tools.15:19 – 19:54 – The Role of Process and Data Hygiene: Marcel explains that real-time reporting fails if data quality is poor. Clean, reliable reporting requires an ETL (Extract, Transform, Load) process, not direct reporting from source data.19:54 – 22:55 – The Precision Trap: Kristen and Marcel explore the conflict between PMs needing granular precision and executives needing simple, high-level rollups. Forcing perfect data consistency across teams destroys usability and compliance.22:55 – 26:28 – Practical Limits of In-Tool Reporting: Marcel describes how building detailed profitability reporting directly in PM tools creates unsustainable complexity, unrealistic data maintenance, and unreliable results.26:28 – 34:38 – Building a Sustainable Data Architecture: They outline how Parakeeto’s ETL pipeline works—extracting time data (person, project, hours), joining it with payroll and project grids, normalizing fields, and applying ongoing QA to ensure accuracy.34:38 – 42:37 – The Big Takeaway: Kristen and Marcel conclude that PM tools are essential for delivery but not the whole profit solution. Agencies should use them for managing work while relying on a clear framework and data pipeline for accurate reporting.Show NotesConnect with Kristen via LinkedInFree Agency ToolkitParakeeto Foundations CourseFree access to our Model PlatformLove this Episode?Leave us a review here. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Points of Interest00:00 – 01:15 – Introduction: Marcel introduces Casey Brown, author of Fearless Pricing and founder of Boost Pricing, highlighting her experience generating over $1B in client profit.01:15 – 02:15 – Defining a Pricing Geek: Casey explains her passion for pricing as the intersection of psychology, process, and data, with a mission to help firms earn the prices they deserve.02:15 – 03:09 – From Engineering to Pricing: Casey shares how she moved from chemical engineering into pricing at GE, discovering its blend of strategy, negotiation, and value creation.03:09 – 04:29 – Pricing as Poker, Not Economics: Casey contrasts real-world pricing with textbook theory, describing it as a poker game where buyers and sellers strategically hide information.04:29 – 07:01 – The Price–Quality Effect: Casey highlights how higher prices in professional services often increase demand, as clients equate higher cost with higher quality.07:01 – 09:13 – From Strategy to Mindset: Casey explains how shifting focus from pricing models to training sales teams on confidence and value communication created better results.09:13 – 14:22 – Why Agencies Struggle with Pricing: Casey outlines two main barriers—lack of focus on pricing strategy and fear of rejection—that lead to underpricing and discounting.14:22 – 18:35 – Running a Pricing Meeting: Casey recommends quarterly reviews of market shifts, win rates, and client profitability to make pricing a consistent strategic priority.18:35 – 22:18 – Operational Levers for Pricing Power: Marcel and Casey discuss how utilization, staffing models, and capacity planning affect the ability to hold firm on price.22:18 – 26:30 – New vs. Existing Client Pricing: Casey stresses segmenting price increases by client type and keeping communications brief, personal, and unapologetic.26:30 – 35:51 – Preparing Teams for Sales Conversations: Casey emphasizes role-play, objection handling, and value-first framing to help frontline teams confidently present pricing.35:51 – 47:56 – Raising Prices with Longstanding Clients: Casey shares phased approaches and cautions against gimmicks, while Marcel introduces tactics like repackaging and the “3 Rs”—Recapture, Rescope, Replace.Show NotesPricing Meeting Structure GuidePricing & Scoping for Agencies PodcastBoostpricing.com/resourcesCasey’s LinkedInFearless Pricing BookLove the PodcastLeave us a review here. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Points of Interest0:50 – 2:07 – Introduction: Marcel and Carson set up the challenge of revenue recognition in agencies, where payments and work schedules rarely align, creating distorted profitability metrics.2:19 – 3:22 – Cash Accounting Pitfalls: Carson shares a client example where tracking only bank deposits caused wild swings in monthly profit and billable rate reporting, rendering metrics unreliable.3:37 – 4:15 – Why Cash Accounting is Common: Marcel explains that firms default to cash-based accounting because it is cheaper and simpler, but acknowledges the operational limits for service businesses.6:13 – 7:17 – Cash vs. Accrual Explained: The hosts break down the difference between cash accounting, which records money moving in and out, and accrual accounting, which aligns revenue and expenses with when they are actually earned or incurred.8:35 – 9:26 – Project Example of Misalignment: Marcel illustrates how upfront deposits and final payments distort monthly reporting, showing why cash accounting fails for project-based agencies.11:07 – 12:13 – Complex Expense Timing: They highlight how vendor terms and delayed payments further complicate accrual accounting, making profitability appear very different depending on the lens used.13:42 – 14:58 – Payroll Timing Issues: Carson notes that biweekly payroll cycles can skew monthly reporting, making accrual adjustments essential for accurate performance measurement.15:12 – 16:20 – Why Invoice Dates Don’t Work: Marcel warns that many accountants mistakenly use invoice schedules for accrual recognition, which misrepresents how much work is truly complete.16:38 – 19:48 – Four Earned Value Methods: Marcel outlines four ways to measure progress for revenue recognition: time versus timeline, time versus budget, burndown via story points, and subjective project manager input.21:38 – 23:16 – Forecasting and Performance Indexing: They stress the importance of pairing earned value with forward-looking forecasts and using cost or schedule performance indexes to spot projects at risk.24:23 – 26:04 – Phasing Projects for Accuracy: The conversation explores breaking projects into major phases to better reflect real effort, while avoiding overly complex setups that burden teams.27:25 – 29:19 – Accountant Impact and Liabilities: They emphasize that proper accrual requires manual journal entries and careful tracking of deferred revenue and liabilities, ensuring agencies avoid misleading profitability and balance sheet risks.Show NotesPodcast Episode: Revenue Recognition in Agencies (with Rich Brett)Blog: Understanding Cost-Performance IndexingFree Tool: Cost Variance CalculatorLove the PodcastLeave us a review here. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Points of Interest00:08 – 01:42 – Introduction: Marcel introduces Mark Drager, founder of Sales Loop, and sets the stage for discussing his Core Selling Identity Framework.01:42 – 04:06 – Early Career in Film and Television: Mark shares his beginnings in film school, early TV roles, and the realization that career progress in the industry was too slow for him.04:06 – 06:33 – Crash Course in Internet Marketing: Mark describes his time at an internet marketing franchise in 2005–2006, where he learned fundamentals like segmentation, AdWords, and split testing before launching his own agency.06:33 – 07:36 – Launching an Agency: Mark explains how he built his agency through video production, applying strategic questionnaires and deep client understanding to ensure valuable outcomes.07:36 – 09:59 – Selling on Tactics vs. Strategy: Mark contrasts transactional, tactic-driven sales with strategy-driven sales that command higher fees but carry more responsibility.09:59 – 12:30 – Challenges of Strategic Responsibility: He outlines the risks of owning outcomes in strategic engagements, emphasizing that greater accountability enables higher pricing but also higher client expectations.12:30 – 13:31 – Why Clients Reject Proven Strategies: Mark notes that clients often resist effective strategies due to psychological discomfort, sparking his pursuit of a framework to explain these reactions.13:31 – 16:04 – Development of the Core Selling Identity: Mark describes years of research and workshops that led to defining three archetypes of selling identities, tested across industries and client types.16:04 – 19:52 – Tribe Leader Profile: The first identity, Tribe Leaders, rely on relationships, networking, and referrals, benefiting from low acquisition costs but struggling to scale consistently.19:52 – 22:13 – Farmer Profile: Farmers use marketing-driven systems, data, and attribution models to generate leads, achieving predictability but requiring high capital investment and systemization.22:13 – 26:32 – Hunter Profile: Hunters rely on outbound sales, structured pipelines, and sales management to drive predictable growth, but often dismiss branding and content strategies as distractions.26:32 – 34:26 – Applying the Framework for Business Growth: Mark and Marcel discuss how identifying your selling identity enables focus, reduces wasted spend on mismatched tactics, and sets a path for scaling through consistency and aligned strategies.Show NotesConnect with Mark via:LinkedInYouTubeEmail: [email protected] the PodcastLeave us a review here. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Points of Interest1:08 – 1:44 – Defining Retainers: Marcel and Carson introduce the topic of retainers, noting how different agencies define them in varied ways.2:05 – 2:37 – Core Benefit of Retainers: Carson explains that retainers create recurring revenue and provide clients with consistent access to agency resources.2:50 – 3:33 – Historical Context: Marcel traces retainers back to traditional professional services, where upfront payments secured future capacity.3:44 – 5:19 – Modern Variations: The conversation highlights how retainers have evolved into many models, including time-and-materials, flat fees, and performance-based pricing.5:32 – 7:04 – Pitfalls of Prepaid Hours: Carson critiques “bucket of hours” retainers, emphasizing their lack of control and operational strain.7:10 – 9:29 – Accrual Accounting Risks: Marcel outlines how prepaid hours create deferred revenue liabilities that are often untracked, leading to serious cash flow problems.11:05 – 11:41 – Operational Consequences: Carson notes that unexpected claims on rollover hours can overwhelm teams, forcing agencies into overwork or costly freelancer hires.12:04 – 14:33 – Pricing Model Quadrant: Marcel introduces the value–risk quadrant, showing how agencies should align retainer structures with engagement value and project risk.15:07 – 16:31 – Abstracted T&M Models: For high-value, high-risk work, Marcel explains why abstracting hours into larger time blocks or cross-functional teams improves leverage and profitability.17:00 – 18:21 – Low-Risk Models: The hosts outline flat retainers tied to deliverables and performance-based pricing tied to client outcomes, noting challenges with attribution.19:00 – 20:27 – Pricing Dynamics: Carson and Marcel discuss how flexibility and overages influence rates, with retainers often discounted for predictability but charged higher when clients exceed agreed capacity.37:06 – 38:14 – Account Management Posture: Marcel contrasts T&M models, where account managers say “yes and” to client requests, with fixed-scope retainers, where the posture shifts to “yes but” requiring tradeoffs or renegotiation.Show NotesConnect with Carson via LinkedIn4 Agency Pricing Models: Which One is Right for You?Maximizing Project Profit Margin: A Guide to Increasing ReturnsFree Agency ToolkitParakeeto Foundations CourseFree access to our Model PlatformLove the PodcastLeave us a review here. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Points of Interest00:00 – 01:09 – Introduction: Marcel introduces guest Matt, founder of The Creative Life and bestselling author, highlighting his mission to help creatives design businesses that align with their lifestyles.01:14 – 02:24 – Coaching High-Level Creatives: Matt explains his role as a coach for award-winning creatives seeking fulfillment beyond the hustle, sharing examples of clients from Disney, Spotify, and the music industry.02:39 – 05:00 – Early Career and First Business: Matt recounts his start in advertising agencies, the launch of his own creative business, and his pursuit of a digital nomad lifestyle inspired by The 4-Hour Workweek.05:00 – 07:28 – Incongruence of Success and Fulfillment: While achieving his dream of running a remote business, Matt realized his work lacked meaning and fulfillment, sparking a personal crisis after the sudden loss of a family friend.07:57 – 10:46 – Discovering Core Values: Through coaching, Matt identified that fulfillment comes from emotional states like freedom, impact, and significance, which guided his transition into life coaching for creatives.12:02 – 15:47 – Three Core Challenges for Creatives: Matt outlines the main struggles creatives face: lack of differentiation, poor communication of value, and inability to scale delivery beyond the founder.18:03 – 20:56 – Differentiation Through Unique Experience: Matt introduces the idea of standing on a “mountain of value,” emphasizing that personal stories and experiences create unique positioning for creative businesses.21:38 – 24:00 – The Four P’s of Positioning: Matt shares his framework for differentiation—Person, Problem, Promise, and Process—illustrated with a case study of a former Spotify designer who grew by niching into music tech branding.26:26 – 28:22 – Communicating Value Through Symptoms: Matt explains why creatives must focus on client symptoms rather than their own services to attract higher-quality clients earlier in the buying journey.30:28 – 34:52 – Shifting the Sales Approach: Marcel and Matt discuss how education and thought leadership build trust, while Matt emphasizes the importance of mastering sales conversations to accelerate client acquisition.35:32 – 37:20 – Building Scalable Delivery Systems: Matt describes how to design repeatable processes that move clients from current challenges to desired outcomes, enabling agency founders to step back from daily delivery.39:38 – 42:26 – Final Advice and Resources: Matt promotes his upcoming book The Creative Studio Roadmap and diagnostic tool and encourages creatives to intentionally design businesses that bring freedom, fulfillment, and financial security.Show NotesConnect with Matt via:LinkedInWebsiteMatt’s One Page Sales FrameworkCreative Courage Podcast: 3 Strategies To Skyrocket Your Agency’s Profit with Marcel PetitpasNew Book Tool: Quiz ToolLove the PodcastLeave us a review here. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Points of Interest00:01 – 00:51 – Introduction: Marcel welcomes Carson Pierce back to the show and introduces the episode’s focus on utilization, specifically the hidden costs of low utilization in agencies.01:18 – 01:50 – Why Utilization Matters Now: Marcel notes that many agencies are struggling with overstaffing and underutilization in a difficult market, which compounds hidden costs over time.01:50 – 02:45 – Carson’s Perspective on Utilization: Carson explains that agency owners often see only the surface-level financial impact of low utilization, but miss the deeper, unexpected effects it creates.02:45 – 03:26 – Everyday Utilization Analogies: Carson shares real-world examples, like an unused Jeep and moving trucks, to illustrate how underutilized assets quietly drain resources.03:39 – 05:59 – Defining Utilization Clearly: Marcel defines utilization as the percentage of purchased team capacity actually used for revenue-generating client work, clarifying common misconceptions and variations.07:25 – 09:25 – Over-Servicing as a Hidden Cost: Carson highlights how idle team members often fill time by overservicing clients, which distorts expectations, undermines project profitability, and becomes habitual.09:25 – 11:00 – Internal Projects and Incentives: Marcel explains that low utilization often shifts time into internal projects, which can be productive but frequently become unfocused or misaligned with priorities.11:00 – 13:47 – Lost Efficiency Without Pressure: Carson argues that high utilization forces efficiency improvements, whereas low utilization removes urgency, leading to stagnant processes and missed bottleneck discovery.15:55 – 17:46 – Disengagement and Cultural Risks: Carson warns that underutilized employees may feel unproductive, disengage, or eventually leave, while survivors of downsizing can resist returning to higher workload levels.20:08 – 21:34 – Opportunity Cost of Low Utilization: Marcel expands on the long-term financial risks, including reduced profitability, lower enterprise value, depleted cash reserves, and a shift to defensive decision-making.25:23 – 27:35 – Managing Unutilized Time Wisely: Carson advises agencies to be deliberate with excess capacity, setting clear expectations for client over-servicing or internal projects and preparing for busy periods.29:21 – 34:21 – Modeling and Leadership Lessons: Marcel and Carson stress the importance of building a business model to set realistic utilization targets, and Marcel shares candid lessons from Parakeeto’s restructuring journey.Show NotesDeep dive on UtilizationUtilization CalculatorBook: The GoalLove the PodcastLeave us a review here. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Points of Interest1:10 – 2:03 – Introduction: Marcel welcomes Mike Grinberg, founder of Proofpoint Marketing, who specializes in helping boutique firms strengthen positioning to compete against large incumbents.2:15 – 3:54 – Competing with “IBM”: Mike explains his role as helping boutique firms reduce client risk perception so they can win against well-known, safer-seeming competitors.4:48 – 5:40 – The Safe Choice Problem: Agencies that differentiate too much without context risk being seen as confusing or risky, which often drives clients back to incumbents.5:46 – 8:44 – Positioning Overlooked Through Risk: Traditional positioning frameworks focus on being better or different but rarely consider how buyers perceive risk in making a nontraditional choice.10:08 – 12:52 – Why Positioning Matters More Now: In uncertain markets, poor positioning is exposed. Firms that only grew with the tide find themselves struggling when growth slows.13:10 – 14:16 – Positioning as an Operational Issue: Positioning cannot be treated as surface-level messaging; it must be reflected in delivery, hiring, onboarding, and overall business design.15:13 – 17:29 – Three Levels of Differentiation: Mike outlines functional, intellectual property (frameworks, tools, methodologies), and promotional differentiation as the three vectors agencies must align.19:00 – 20:13 – The Category Dilemma: Agencies often struggle between fitting into known categories, which brings competition, or creating new ones, which increases client risk and education costs.22:23 – 24:03 – Functional vs. IP Positioning: Mike advocates anchoring to existing categories functionally while differentiating through intellectual property and go-to-market messaging.26:30 – 27:49 – Starting with Ideal Client Profile (ICP): Effective positioning begins with deeply defining the ICP beyond titles and industries, including attributes like stage, structure, and challenges.30:26 – 36:23 – The Risk Perception Matrix: Mike introduces his framework with two axes—personal vs. organizational risk and internal skepticism vs. external questioning—to explain how agencies can derisk buying decisions at every stage.Show NotesConnect with Mike via LinkedInNewsletter: Proofpoint.marketingRisk Perception MatrixLove the PodcastLeave us a review here. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Points of Interest0:00 – 0:17 – Opening: Marcel reflects on building production-level software using low-code tools without prior coding experience, setting the stage for a discussion on rapid change in the agency landscape.1:01 – 3:40 – Conference Context & Audience: Marcel shares his experience at Web Summer Camp in Opatija, Croatia, hosted by Netgen, describing its highly technical European attendee base and collaborative environment.5:03 – 7:18 – European Agency Realities: The conversation explores regulated salaries, generous benefits, and extended vacation policies in markets like North Macedonia, and how these shape agency cost structures compared to North America.7:18 – 11:16 – Local vs. Export Markets: Many Eastern European agencies balance serving lower-rate local clients with the opportunity and challenges of selling into higher-priced North American and UK markets.11:16 – 14:22 – Trust and Positioning Across Borders: Marcel emphasizes that weak positioning, not geography, is often the real barrier to winning high-value international work and urges agencies to invest in thought leadership.16:19 – 18:20 – AI as a Global Equalizer: They discuss how AI is redefining “geo-arbitrage” by giving agencies worldwide access to powerful, low-cost capabilities, eroding traditional labor-cost advantages.19:09 – 21:05 – Universal Agency Benchmarks: Marcel notes that delivery margin targets above 50% and overhead at 20–30% apply globally, though currency differences can magnify software cost burdens in some regions.22:24 – 25:26 – Retaining Talent in a Global Market: Agencies face competition from multinational firms and startups for top talent, leading many to adopt flexible, growth-oriented cultures to keep their teams engaged.26:29 – 28:19 – Collaboration as Competitive Advantage: The cooperative nature of the agency community, in both Europe and North America, is positioned as key to navigating future M&A activity and industry shifts.29:17 – 31:35 – The Power of Networking: Marcel highlights the role of trusted peer relationships in unlocking referrals, partnerships, and acquisition opportunities during both strong and challenging economic cycles.32:05 – 36:18 – Positioning for the North American Market: Competing solely on technical capability is becoming harder; agencies must lean into operational excellence or deep specialization to sustain premium pricing.37:00 – 40:19 – Final Take on Adaptability: Marcel closes by underscoring the importance of solving specific, high-value problems better than anyone else, with specialization and clarity as enduring competitive levers.Show NotesConnect with Carson via LinkedInFree Agency ToolkitParakeeto Foundations CourseFree access to our Model PlatformLove the PodcastLeave us a review here. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.