S8E2 - From UN Negotiations to Legal AI: Tamara Essayyad on Law, Leadership & Entrepreneurship

Welcome back to Tales of the Tribunal — Season 8! What does it take to go from negotiating on behalf of the United Nations to building a company that aims to transform how lawyers work? This week, host Chris Campbell welcomes Tamara Essayyad, an international lawyer, former United Nations negotiator, and co-founder and Chief Operating Officer of Ketrone, a legal technology company focused on helping law firms become AI-native. Tamara's career has taken her from investigating fraud and corruption on World Bank projects to participating in high-stakes international negotiations, leading legal and compliance teams, and ultimately making the leap into entrepreneurship. In this wide-ranging conversation, Chris and Tamara explore: The art of negotiation: Why being right isn't always enough, how to understand what the other side really wants, and why building trust can be more important than winning an argument. From international law to entrepreneurship: What Tamara learned from working at the World Bank and United Nations, and how those experiences prepared her to build a business. The future of legal AI: The shift from AI that answers questions to AI that takes action, and what that means for law firms, in-house counsel, and the future of legal practice. Keeping humans in the lead: Why professional judgment, strategy, and relationships remain essential as technology takes on more legal work. Lessons beyond the law: Career changes, mentorship, the importance of listening, and finding time for the people and experiences that matter most. Along the way, Tamara shares the story behind Ketrone, her thoughts on what lawyers should be doing to prepare for AI, and some practical advice for anyone considering an unconventional legal career. Time Stamps:  Opening Notes - :45 Interview Starts - 3:17 Personal Interest - 46:20 Closing Notes - 55:31   Books, Music & References 📚 Tamara's Book Recommendation: Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/677234/lessons-in-chemistry-by-bonnie-garmus/9780385547345/ 🎵 Tamara's Music Recommendation: Jazzy Dinner — Spotify playlist https://open.spotify.com/search/Jazzy%20Dinner/playlists 💻 Learn More About Ketrone: https://ketrone.io Special Thanks A special thank you to Josh and Jaden for their work on the episode editing and show music, and to MoBetta Productions for their production support. And, of course, thank you to Tamara for joining us and sharing her experiences! Stay Connected Have a guest or topic you'd like us to feature on Tales of the Tribunal? We'd love to hear from you! Connect with us on LinkedIn, share this episode with a colleague, and follow the podcast for more conversations from the world of international law, business, and dispute resolution.   There is no disputing it — you're listening to Tales of the Tribunal!   A Note on Episode Timestamps: Some podcast platforms automatically generate AI-based timestamps or chapter markers, which may not accurately reflect the episode's content. For the best listening experience, please refer to any timestamps provided in the official episode description.   Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed by guests on Tales of the Tribunal are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host, podcast, or any affiliated organizations. The content is provided for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice.  

Welcome to Season 8 of Tales of the Tribunal! We're back! And to kick off the new season, we're tackling a question that many aspiring international lawyers and arbitration practitioners eventually confront: Is pursuing an LL.M. actually worth it? For this special episode, we're handing the microphone to Lidia Biella, who leads a conversation with four international arbitration professionals whose LL.M. experiences helped shape their careers: Jake Lowther – SCC Arbitration Institute | Humboldt University of Berlin Jessica Rado – Klafter LEsser | Fordham University School of Law Sebastian Wuschka – Luther | Geneva LL.M. in International Dispute Settlement (MIDS) Alice Wang – Pinsent Masons | Tsinghua University Together, they explore some of the practical questions that prospective LL.M. students should be asking: When is the right time to pursue an LL.M., and should you qualify as a lawyer first? How do you choose between programs in the United States, Europe, and Asia? Is a specialized arbitration LL.M. more valuable than a general law degree? How should tuition, scholarships, visas, and career opportunities factor into the decision? What is the real return on investment—professionally and personally? Our guests share their experiences studying and building careers across jurisdictions, along with candid reflections on the opportunities, challenges, friendships, and unexpected turns that came with their decisions. Chris also shares his own experience studying at Tsinghua University and how international education helped shape his career and personal life. Plus, we're kicking off Season 8 with a preview of what's ahead, including conversations with leading figures in international dispute resolution, in-house practice, and legal innovation, as well as news about our upcoming 2027 Vis Moot Audio Project. Whether you're considering an LL.M., mentoring someone who is, or simply interested in building an international legal career, this episode offers plenty to think about. There is no disputing it. You're listening to Tales of the Tribunal.   None of the views shared today or any episode of Tales of the Tribunal is presented as legal advice nor advice of any kind.  No compensation was provided to any organization or party for their inclusion on the show nor do any of the statements made represent any particular organization, legal position or view point.  All interviewees or organizations included appear on an arms-length basis and their appearance should not be construed as any bias or preferred affiliation with the host or host’s employer.  All rights reserved.

🎧 33rd Willem C. Vis International Commercial Arbitration Moot — Audio Case Record This episode presents an audio rendition of the case record through Procedural Order No. 2 from the Thirty-Third Annual Willem C. Vis International Commercial Arbitration Moot, produced by Tales of the Tribunal. The recording has been lightly adapted for spoken delivery while remaining faithful to the official Vis Moot materials. Its purpose is to support students, coaches, and practitioners engaging with the Vis Moot problem by making the record more accessible in audio form. In the event of any discrepancy between this recording and the official case file, the materials issued by the Vis Moot organizers control. 🎙️ Narrated by Chris Campbell, with contributions from members of the international arbitration community. Our sincere thanks to the voice actors who brought this record to life: Mike McIlwrath (Joseph Langweiler), Anamaria Marin (Giorgia Theophrastus), Eric Ng (Edmond Albius), Snigdha Bhatta (SIAC Representative), Mandy Lee (Julia Fasttrack), Sherlin Tung (Professor Dr. Yesim Salepp), and Chris Campbell (all other roles). ⏱️ Timestamps for each section of the record are provided below for ease of reference. 📚 This recording is provided for educational purposes only. Any use outside that context requires the express written consent of Tales of the Tribunal.  Nothing in this recording constitutes legal advice, nor endorsement of any entity mentioned or referenced herein, including the Vis Moot.  All rights reserved.    Intro - 0:00   Letter By Langweiler (31 July 2025) – 1:56   Notice of Arbitration - 3:48   Claimant Exhibits C1 (Witness Statement Theophrastus) – 25:11   C2 (Albius Email 15 June 2022)  - 34:10   Claimant Exhibit C3 (Sales Agreement 25 August 2022)  - 36:22   Claimant Exhibit C4 (Agriculture and Conservation 2 February 2024) – 49:56   Claimant Exhibit C5 (Email Albius-Haarmann 1 December 2023) – 54:07    Claimant Exhibit C6 (Witness Statement Haarmann) - 55:33   Email SIAC concerning applicable version of SIAC Rules (1 August 2025)- 1:04:30   Email Langweiler concerning applicable version of SIAC Rules (4 August 2025) - 1:08.14   Claimant Exhibit C7 (Email Gobley - Theophrastus 26 November 2021) - 1:10:38   Email Fasttrack concerning applicable version SIAC Rules (6 August 2025) - 1:12.34   Commencement Letter by SIAC (8 August 2025) - 1:14.53   Letter by Fasttrack (14 August 2025) - 1:33:18   Response to the Notice of Arbitration 134:58   Respondent Exhibit R1 (Witness Statement Albius) - 1:59:06   Respondent Exhibit R2 (Email Albius - Theophrastus 22 August 2022) - 2:05.40   Respondent R3 (Email Theophrastus - Albius 1 March 2024 Termination) - 2:07:07   Respondent R4 (The Insider - 4 August 2025) - 2:08:44   Letter by Langweiler (14 August 2025) - 2:11:23   Letter by SIAC Concerning the Appointment of the Presiding Arbitrator and the Constitution of the Tribunal (10 September 2025) - 2:14:50   Letter by Salepp (19 September 2025) - 2:23:49   Letter by Salepp (9 October 2025) - 2:24:45   Procedural Order No. 1 - 2:25:45 Procedural Order No. 2  - 2:33:38   Closing - 3:02:36  

🎬 Season 7 Finale Dispute finance, strategy, and the business of arbitration. In the Season 7 finale of Tales of the Tribunal, Chris Campbell is joined by Ayşe Yazıcı Açı, Investment Manager at Bench Walk Advisors, for a deep dive into third-party funding and dispute finance. Ayşe explains how funders assess risk, how data and human judgment intersect in funding decisions, and what lawyers often misunderstand about legal finance. The episode also looks ahead — to transparency, disclosure, competition, and how funding continues to reshape arbitration strategy worldwide. A fitting close to a season focused on evolution, perspective, and where disputes are headed next. 📚 Books Mentioned Thinking, Fast and Slow – Daniel Kahneman https://www.amazon.com/dp/0374533555 The Black Swan – Nassim Nicholas Taleb https://www.amazon.com/dp/081297381X 🎶 Music Mentioned Sezen Aksu – Gülümse https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E8V7iYcZ0Q Max Richter – On the Nature of Daylight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVN1B-tUpgs   Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/40833847/admin/   Check out our website: TalesOfTheTribunal.com   For Feedback, comments or submissions contact [email protected]   None of the views shared today or any episode of Tales of the Tribunal is presented as legal advice nor advice of any kind.  No compensation was provided to any organization or party for their inclusion on the show nor do any of the statements made represent any particular organization, legal position or view point.  All interviewees or organizations included appear on an arms-length basis and their appearance should not be construed as any bias or preferred affiliation with the host or host’s employer.  All rights reserved.

Aisha Abdallah, ALN Kenya Anjarwalla & Khanna Building world-class disputes practices in Africa — on your own terms. Chris Campbell sits down with Aisha Abdallah, Head of Dispute Resolution at ALN Kenya | Anjarwalla & Khanna, for a powerful conversation on leadership, culture, and the evolution of arbitration and disputes work across Africa. Aisha shares her journey building a female-led, top-tier disputes practice, navigating cross-border commercial conflicts, and challenging misconceptions about legal practice on the African continent. The episode also explores rule of law, mentorship, capacity-building, and why global arbitration must better reflect lived regional expertise. An essential listen for anyone working across borders — or thinking seriously about the future of the profession. 📚 Books Mentioned The Trees – Percival Everett https://www.amazon.com/dp/1641290679 James – Percival Everett https://www.amazon.com/dp/0385549376 🎶 Music Mentioned Dr. Dre (classic hip-hop / R&B)                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0APwW6wQV8E&list=RD0APwW6wQV8E&start_radio=1 Afrobeat (general genre) https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=afrobeats+playlist   Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/40833847/admin/   Check out our website: TalesOfTheTribunal.com   For Feedback, comments or submissions contact [email protected]   None of the views shared today or any episode of Tales of the Tribunal is presented as legal advice nor advice of any kind.  No compensation was provided to any organization or party for their inclusion on the show nor do any of the statements made represent any particular organization, legal position or view point.  All interviewees or organizations included appear on an arms-length basis and their appearance should not be construed as any bias or preferred affiliation with the host or host’s employer.  All rights reserved.  

Roman Kramařík, JSK Law Firm Navigation, judgment, and re-imagining arbitration through maps. In this episode of Tales of the Tribunal, Chris Campbell is joined by Dr. Roman Kramarik — arbitrator, partner in Prague, aviation pioneer, and the founder of Arbitration Atlas. Roman reflects on building an independent practice outside Big Law, the value of technical literacy for lawyers, and how his experience as a pilot informs decision-making, leadership, and arbitral judgment. The conversation also dives deep into Arbitration Atlas, a new project mapping procedural and legal differences across jurisdictions in a way the arbitration community has never seen before. A thoughtful, wide-ranging discussion on ethics, perspective, and why arbitration needs better tools — not just more rules. 🔗 Arbitration Atlas: https://arbitrationatlas.com 📚 Books Mentioned Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance – Robert M. Pirsig https://www.amazon.com/dp/0060589469 Works of Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (Wind, Sand and Stars) https://www.amazon.com/dp/0156027494 The Economist (regular reading) https://www.economist.com 🎶 Music Mentioned Johann Sebastian Bach (classical works) https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bach+classical+music Antonín Dvořák – Symphony No. 9 “From the New World” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuaTY3z4Z2I   Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/40833847/admin/   Check out our website: TalesOfTheTribunal.com   For Feedback, comments or submissions contact [email protected]   None of the views shared today or any episode of Tales of the Tribunal is presented as legal advice nor advice of any kind.  No compensation was provided to any organization or party for their inclusion on the show nor do any of the statements made represent any particular organization, legal position or view point.  All interviewees or organizations included appear on an arms-length basis and their appearance should not be construed as any bias or preferred affiliation with the host or host’s employer.  All rights reserved.

🎧 Episode Description – Live with Ann Ryan Robertson (AtlAS Conference) Our first-ever LIVE episode of Tales of the Tribunal — recorded at the 2025 Atlanta International Arbitration Society (AtlAS) Annual Conference — features none other than Ann Ryan Robertson. Ann is one of the most respected voices in international arbitration: Former President of the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators (CIArb) Newly independent international arbitrator Leader, mentor, and advocate for excellence, diversity, and integrity in the field In this special live conversation, Ann and Chris discuss: Her journey from trial lawyer to globally recognized arbitrator Leading CIArb through the complexities of the pandemic Why cognitive diversity may be the most important form of diversity in dispute resolution How arbitration is adapting to innovation, energy transition, and shifting global priorities The traits she believes make truly effective advocates Reflections on mentorship, ethics, and the future of the field This episode also includes a brief audience Q&A from the live session — a first in Tales of the Tribunal history. 🕒 Timestamps Opening Notes – 00:31 Live Interview Begins – ~01:37 Audience Q&A – ~27:18 Personal Interest - 33:28 Closing Notes – ~39:10 📚 Books Mentioned A Farewell to Arms – Ernest Hemingway The Killing Kind – Jane Casey 🎶 Music Mentioned Patsy Cline – Crazy → https://www.linkedin.com/company/40833847/admin/   Check out our website: TalesOfTheTribunal.com   For Feedback, comments or submissions contact [email protected]   None of the views shared today or any episode of Tales of the Tribunal is presented as legal advice nor advice of any kind.  No compensation was provided to any organization or party for their inclusion on the show nor do any of the statements made represent any particular organization, legal position or view point.  All interviewees or organizations included appear on an arms-length basis and their appearance should not be construed as any bias or preferred affiliation with the host or host’s employer.  All rights reserved.

🎧 Podcast Feed Caption (Episode Description) Double Feature Week – Tales of the Tribunal: AtlAS Conference Special + Live with Ann Ryan Robertson We’re doing something new — and a little historic — for Tales of the Tribunal. This week features two special episodes recorded during the Atlanta International Arbitration Society (AtlAS) Annual Conference. Episode 1: The AtlAS Conference Compilation Join Chris as he takes listeners inside the 14th Annual AtlAS Conference in Atlanta, Georgia — with voices from across the arbitration world discussing technology, AI, diversity, and what makes Atlanta a growing global hub for dispute resolution. Featuring: Leah Wilson – Miles Mediation & Arbitration Abbey Hawthorne – ICC Nancy Thevenin, Isabel Fernández de la Cuesta, Wheaton Webb and  Christoph Seifarth, Glenn Hendrix, Sebastian Feiler, and others The second episode with Ann Ryan will drop over the weekend! Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/40833847/admin/   Check out our website: TalesOfTheTribunal.com   For Feedback, comments or submissions contact [email protected]   None of the views shared today or any episode of Tales of the Tribunal is presented as legal advice nor advice of any kind.  No compensation was provided to any organization or party for their inclusion on the show nor do any of the statements made represent any particular organization, legal position or view point.  All interviewees or organizations included appear on an arms-length basis and their appearance should not be construed as any bias or preferred affiliation with the host or host’s employer.  All rights reserved.

Prof. Joongi Kim, Yonsei University From Seoul to The Hague, from the classroom to the tribunal — this week’s guest has seen it all. We sit down with Dr. Joongi Kim, Professor of Law at Yonsei University and a leading figure in the development of arbitration across Asia and beyond. In this wide-ranging conversation, Dr. Kim shares: His journey from studying in the U.S. to shaping Korea’s arbitration landscape What “K-Arbitration” means and why the world should take notice His perspective on transparency, legitimacy, and reform in ISDS Reflections on mentorship, teaching, and lessons learned from his students Why diversity of thought — not just geography — is essential for the next era of arbitration 🎙️ Joined by host Chris Campbell and intern Lidia, this episode explores the intersection of culture, reform, and community in international dispute resolution. 🕒 Timestamps Opening Notes – 00:38 Interview Begins – ~02:10 Personal Shift-- 00:50:20 Closing Notes – ~00:59:23 📚 Books Mentioned The Analects of Confucius → Amazon Modern Korean History: The 19th Century → Amazon Gertrude Stein: Writings 1903–1932 → Amazon 🎶 Music Mentioned K-Pop Demon Hunters Theme → YouTube Billie Holiday – Blue Moon → YouTube Chopin – Nocturne Op.9 No.2 → YouTube   Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/40833847/admin/   Check out our website: TalesOfTheTribunal.com   For Feedback, comments or submissions contact [email protected]   None of the views shared today or any episode of Tales of the Tribunal is presented as legal advice nor advice of any kind.  No compensation was provided to any organization or party for their inclusion on the show nor do any of the statements made represent any particular organization, legal position or view point.  All interviewees or organizations included appear on an arms-length basis and their appearance should not be construed as any bias or preferred affiliation with the host or host’s employer.  All rights reserved.

From orbit to arbitration—this week we’re talking with Laura Yvonne Zielinski, co-founder of the Space Arbitration Association. Laura is part of a new generation of arbitration professionals redefining what the field can be—linking law, technology, developing a brand, and even outer space. From Germany to France to Mexico, her journey is as international as it gets. In this episode, Laura and I talk about: How she discovered her passion for space law and arbitration What inspired the founding of the Space Arbitration Association How Technology, and AI are changing the way disputes are resolved The importance of curiosity and interdisciplinary thinking in arbitration What it means to build a career across borders (and maybe across planets!) 🕒 Timestamps Opening Notes – 00:36 Interview Begins – ~02:22 Personal Interest  – ~42:25 Closing Notes – ~54:20 📚 Books Mentioned Space Law: A Treatise – Stephan Hobe The Law of Outer Space: An Experience in Contemporary Law-Making – Tanja L. Masson-Zwaan & Mahulena Hofmann 🎶 Music Mentioned Coldplay – Sky Full of Stars → YouTube Daft Punk – Contact → YouTube Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/40833847/admin/   Check out our website: TalesOfTheTribunal.com   For Feedback, comments or submissions contact [email protected]   None of the views shared today or any episode of Tales of the Tribunal is presented as legal advice nor advice of any kind.  No compensation was provided to any organization or party for their inclusion on the show nor do any of the statements made represent any particular organization, legal position or view point.  All interviewees or organizations included appear on an arms-length basis and their appearance should not be construed as any bias or preferred affiliation with the host or host’s employer.  All rights reserved.