The JFK Assassination – a Debate with Jefferson Morley and Mark Zaid (Part 1)

Summary Tim Tate (Website) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the Spycatcher Affair. Tim is a best-selling author and award-winning filmmaker.  What You’ll Learn Intelligence Peter Wright: His background and motives  The contents of Spycatcher including the exposure of alleged soviet moles The UK’s efforts to keep their secrets secret The lasting effects of the Spycatcher Affair Reflections Personal secrecy vs. public security Censorship and free speech And much, much more … Quotes of the Week "[Wright] found truly acres of paperwork from old files which had been disregarded and hadn't been properly followed up on and leads that hadn't been properly followed. And when he pulled at them, those threads of evidence, and when he chased it down, what he found, as often as not, was genuine reason to suspect that the penetration, the widespread penetration, was real and serious.” – Tim Tate . Resources  SURFACE SKIM *Spotlight Resource* To Catch a Spy: How the Spycatcher Affair brought MI5 in from the Cold, Tim Tate (Icon Books, 2024) *SpyCasts* The Counterintelligence Chief with FBI Assistant Director Alan Kohler (2023) St. Ermin’s Hotel, London – The History of a Legendary Spy Site with Stephen Duffy (2023) The Information Battlespace – Foreign Denial and Deception with Bill Parquette (2022) Dealing with Russia – A Conversation with Counterintelligence Legend Jim Olson (2022) DEEPER DIVE Books To Catch a Spy: The Art of Counterintelligence, J. Olson (Georgetown University Press, 2021) Traitors Among Us: Inside the Spy Catcher's World, S. A. Herrington (Harvest Books, 2000) The Spycatcher Affair, C. Pincher (St. Martin’s Press, 1988) Spycatcher, P. Wright (Heinemann, 1987) Primary Sources  Peter Wright Case (Part 1) (1987) Peter Wright Case (Part 2) (1987)  Retired Spy Claims Cover Up in British Service (1984) The Hollis Affair (1981) The “Zinoviev” Letter Investigation (1924) The Zimmermann Telegram (1917) *Wildcard Resource* Areopagitica (1644) by John Milton Illegally published in the UK in protest to the Licensing Order of 1643, this polemic has since become one of the most influential documents defending the right to free speech and free publication.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary Rachel Noble joins Andrew to discuss her role as Director-General of the Australian Signals Directorate. Rachel is the first woman to hold this position.   What You’ll Learn Intelligence The Australian Signals Directorate: Its purpose and mission The true story of the Pine Gap spy facility Leadership in Intelligence The SIGINT origins of the Five Eyes alliance Reflections The value of team The importance of work-life balance And much, much more … Quotes of the Week “Women lead differently. We talk differently, we engage in different ways. And I've had to learn to own that about myself and not be tempted to try to be like the guys, compete with them on their own terms, or to adopt male behaviors in order to be heard … [Doing that] doesn't really help other women who might come after me.” – Rachel Noble. Resources  SURFACE SKIM *SpyCasts* Codebreaking and Codemaking Down Under with John Blaxland and Clare Birgin (2024) Australian National Day Special: Intelligence Down Under with John Blaxland (2024) SPY CHIEFS: Director-General of Security Mike Burgess - ASIO, Australia & America (2022) Keeping Secrets/Disclosing Secrets with Spy Chief turned DG of Australia’s National Archives David Fricker (2022)  *Beginner Resources* What is SIGINT? YouTube (2020) [2 min. video] Who we are, Australian Signals Directorate (2020) [Short article] Our Agencies, National Intelligence Community of Australia (n.d.) [Overview of each agency in the Australian IC] DEEPER DIVE Primary Sources  REDSPICE Blueprint (2022) Report of the Royal Commission on Intelligence and Security (1977)  Australian Treaty Series: Five Power Defence Agreements (1971) Australian Treaty Series: Agreement between the Government of the Commonwealth of Australia and the Government of the United States of America relating to the Establishment of a Joint Defence Space Research Facility (1966) Policy file containing Cabinet approval of establishment of Joint Intelligence Organisation and participation of New Zealand Government (1946)  ASD Role and effectiveness of Signals Intelligence in World War II (1945) *Wildcard Resource* Rachel mentioned in this podcast episode that one of her favorite treats when coming to the States are Snickerdoodles – A delectable sugar cookie showered in cinnamon-sugar topping.  In the cookie world, snickerdoodles are a more recent invention with their first written mention being in an 1889 cookbook. Learn more about the history of cookies here!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary Neil Bradbury (Website, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the deadly history of poison and espionage. Neil is an author and biochemist.   What You’ll Learn Intelligence How different poisons affect the human body  The usage of poisons as a covert assassination method The deaths of defectors Alexander Litvinenko and Georgi Markov The Soviet Union’s Lab X and the production and research of poisons on the state level Reflections The double edge of creativity  The necessity for research and experimentation And much, much more … Quotes of the Week “In order to counteract lots of the poisons, you have to know how they work, and you have to be able to develop your own. So, yes, undoubtedly, Western governments are just as actively involved in creating these chemicals and also the antidotes to them.” – Dr. Neil Bradbury. Resources  SURFACE SKIM *Spotlight Resource* A Taste for Poison: Eleven Deadly Molecules and the Killers Who Used Them, Neil Bradbury (St. Martin’s Press, 2022)  *SpyCasts* The Murder of an IRA Spy with Henry Hemming (2024) I Helped Solve the Final Zodiac Killer Cipher with David Oranchak (2024)  The North Korean Defector with Former DPRK Agent Kim, Hyun Woo (2023) Spies: The Epic Intelligence War Between East vs. West with Calder Walton (2023) DEEPER DIVE Books Poison: The History of Potions, Powders and Murderous Practitioners, B. Hubbard (Welbeck Publishing, 2020) Poison: A History: An Account of the Deadly Art and its Most Infamous Practitioners, J. Davis (Chartwell Books, 2018) The KGB's Poison Factory: From Lenin to Litvinenko, B. Volodarsky (Zenith Press, 2010)  Primary Sources  Press Release on the Poisoning of Alexei Navalny (2020) Update on the Use of Nerve Agent in Salisbury, UK (2018) The Litvinenko Inquiry (2016) Situation Report on Piesteritz (1953) Analysis of Madame Lefarge’s Arsenic Trial (1840) *Wildcard Resource* This week’s companion song can only be Waterloo Sunset (1967) by The Kinks.  Heralded as one of the most beautiful songs of the swingin’ sixties, “Waterloo Sunset” is appropriately incorporated into the title of Neil’s chapter on the assassination of Georgi Markov, which took place on London’s Waterloo Bridge.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary Jefferson Morley and Mark Zaid join Andrew in a debate over the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Mark and Jeff are longtime friends and colleagues with very different viewpoints of what truly happened on November 22nd, 1963.  What You’ll Learn Intelligence The lasting questions surrounding the Kennedy assassination Lee Harvey Oswald’s intelligence connections The Warren Commission and the JFK Assassination Records The strangest theories Mark and Jeff have heard, and the most plausible explanations of who killed President Kennedy Reflections Public distrust and the search for truth Reactions and responses to tragedy And much, much more … Quotes of the Week  ”That's why I think they probably have something to hide. Because it doesn't make sense otherwise … If they had access to that kind of straightforward story, we would get that.” – Jefferson Morley. Resources  SURFACE SKIM *SpyCasts* The Skinny on American Intelligence & the Law with D.C. “Super Lawyer” Mark Zaid (2024) Rise of Devils: The Origins of Modern Terrorism with James Crossland (2024) Havana Syndrome – A Panel featuring Nicky Woolf, Marc Polymeropoulos, and Mark Zaid (2023) The Past 75 Years with Historian of the CIA Rhodri Jeffreys-Jones (2022) *Beginner Resources* Lee Harvey Oswald, Britannica (2024) [Short biography] JFK Files: What we're learning from newly released Kennedy assassination records, CBS News, YouTube (2022) [6 min. video] Kennedy Assassination Timeline, The Sixth Floor Museum (n.d.) [Timeline of events] DEEPER DIVE Books The Devil's Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America's Secret Government, D. Talbot (Harper Perennial, 2016) JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters, J. W. Douglass (Touchstone, 2010) Our Man in Mexico: Winston Scott and the Hidden History of the CIA, J. Morley (University Press of Kansas, 2008) Primary Sources  President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act (1992) Select Committee on Assassinations Report (1978) Warren Commission Report (1964)  LBJ Address to Congress (1963) Interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald (1963) JFK Autopsy Report (1963) The President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection  *Wildcard Resource* Test how you would do in Kennedy’s shoes by playing 13 Days: The Cuban Missile Crisis, 1962 – A two-player board game that tests your quick-thinking strategy and conflict resolution skills.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary Jefferson Morley and Mark Zaid join Andrew in a debate over the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Mark and Jeff are longtime friends and colleagues with very different viewpoints of what truly happened on November 22nd, 1963.  What You’ll Learn Intelligence The lasting questions surrounding the Kennedy assassination Lee Harvey Oswald’s intelligence connections The Warren Commission and the JFK Assassination Records The strangest theories Mark and Jeff have heard, and the most plausible explanations of who killed President Kennedy Reflections Public distrust and the search for truth Reactions and responses to tragedy And much, much more … Quotes of the Week  ”That's why I think they probably have something to hide. Because it doesn't make sense otherwise … If they had access to that kind of straightforward story, we would get that.” – Jefferson Morley. Resources  SURFACE SKIM *SpyCasts* The Skinny on American Intelligence & the Law with D.C. “Super Lawyer” Mark Zaid (2024) Rise of Devils: The Origins of Modern Terrorism with James Crossland (2024) Havana Syndrome – A Panel featuring Nicky Woolf, Marc Polymeropoulos, and Mark Zaid (2023) The Past 75 Years with Historian of the CIA Rhodri Jeffreys-Jones (2022) *Beginner Resources* Lee Harvey Oswald, Britannica (2024) [Short biography] JFK Files: What we're learning from newly released Kennedy assassination records, CBS News, YouTube (2022) [6 min. video] Kennedy Assassination Timeline, The Sixth Floor Museum (n.d.) [Timeline of events] DEEPER DIVE Books The Devil's Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America's Secret Government, D. Talbot (Harper Perennial, 2016) JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters, J. W. Douglass (Touchstone, 2010) Our Man in Mexico: Winston Scott and the Hidden History of the CIA, J. Morley (University Press of Kansas, 2008) Primary Sources  President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act (1992) Select Committee on Assassinations Report (1978) Warren Commission Report (1964)  LBJ Address to Congress (1963) Interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald (1963) JFK Autopsy Report (1963) The President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection  *Wildcard Resource* Test how you would do in Kennedy’s shoes by playing 13 Days: The Cuban Missile Crisis, 1962 – A two-player board game that tests your quick-thinking strategy and conflict resolution skills.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary Henry Hemming (X, Website) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the case of Frank Hegarty, a British spy operating within the IRA. Henry is a bestselling espionage author.  What You’ll Learn Intelligence Espionage and the role of MI5 within the Troubles The story of Frank Hegarty, a British spy working in Derry Freddie Scappaticci, or Stakeknife, and Operation Kenova The moral implications of spying Reflections Sacrifice, risk, and trust The nuances of conflict  And much, much more … Quotes of the Week “This is where it becomes, morally, much more complex. What’s difficult … is that most of the handlers who were faced with these decisions didn't have adequate training. They didn't know what the law said. They didn't know exactly what the limits were to what they could and could not do … And suddenly, as we're beginning to find out, mistakes were made.” – Henry Hemming.   Resources  SURFACE SKIM *SpyCasts* Irish Garda Intelligence Chief with Assistant Commissioner Michael McElgunn (2023)  Espionage and the Two Queens with Kent Tiernan (2023) The IRA, The Troubles & Intelligence with Eleanor Williams and Thomas Leahy (2022) *Beginner Resources* Why is Ireland Divided? History Matters, YouTube (2022) [3 min. video] What You Need to Know About The Troubles, Imperial War Museum (n.d.) [Short article]  A Brief History of Ireland, T. Lambert, Local Histories (n.d.) [Short article]  DEEPER DIVE Books Stakeknife's Dirty War: The Inside Story of Scappaticci, the IRA’s Nutting Squad, and the British Spooks who Ran the War, R. O’Rawe (Merrion Press, 2023) The Intelligence War against the IRA, T. Leahy (Cambridge University Press, 2020) Say Nothing: A True Story of Murder and Memory in Northern Ireland, P. Radden Keefe (Anchor, 2020) Primary Sources  Operation Kenova Interim Report (2024) Report of the Bloody Sunday Inquiry (2010) The Good Friday Agreement (1998) The Anglo-Irish Agreement (1985) IRA Green Book (1977)  Guerrilla Warfare Handbook for IRA Volunteers (1956) *Wildcard Resource* Much of the events mentioned in this week’s episode take place in Derry, or Londonderry, Northern Ireland.  Check out one of Erin’s favorite TV shows, Derry Girls – It tells the story of a young group of friends growing up in Derry during the Troubles. The town loved the show so much, they erected a mural to immortalize the five fictional friends that represented so many of their own upbringings in Derry. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary Brett Forrest and Warren Strobel join Andrew to discuss reporting intelligence. Brett and Warren are national security reporters for The Wall Street Journal.  What You’ll Learn Intelligence The intelligence learning curve  Stories from the front lines of modern conflicts and critical moments  The unique challenges that come with reporting on intelligence, and ... The risks, including being a target of espionage Reflections Privacy and protection  The power, and danger, of sharing information And much, much more … Episode Notes This week on SpyCast, Andrew was joined in the studio by Brett Forrest and Warren Strobel, intelligence correspondents at the Wall Street Journal. As SpyCast listeners will know, issues of intelligence and espionage are constantly going on all around us – But how does the public stay in the know and up to date on the latest cases and news from around the world? Well, that's where these two come in.  Quotes of the Week “It's about knocking on every possible door that you can imagine, that you can come up with, that you can dig up. And, all you're hoping for is one of those doors to open. You know, you knock on a hundred doors, you get 99 doors to open. You just want that one door to open because that's where the information is. That's where the source is. So, I don't know if I would call that luck, I would call that persistence.” - Brett Forrest Resources  SURFACE SKIM *SpyCasts* Zelensky, Ukraine, and Intelligence with Simon Shuster (2024) China’s Corporate Spy War with CNBC’s Eamon Javers (2023) My Life Looking at Spies & the Media with Paul Lashmar (2021) The Women of NatSec Journalism – 6 Leading Journalists (2017) *Beginner Resources* A Brief History of Journalism in America, M. A. McIntosh, Brewminate (2022) [Short article] A History of The Wall Street Journal, G. Hughes, Historic Newspapers (2021) [Short article] What Is Journalism and Why Does it Matter? CTRL-F, YouTube (2018) [3 min. Video] DEEPER DIVE Books Spies, Spin and the Fourth Estate, P. Lashmar (EUP, 2021) Spies and the Media in Britain, R. Norton-Taylor (IBT, 2018) Spinning Intelligence, R. Dover and M. Goodman (CUP, 2009) Articles How Cuba Recruits Spies to Penetrate Inner Circles of the U.S. Government, B. Forrest & W. Strobel, The Wall Street Journal (2024) Reporters who covered U.S. invasion of Iraq reflect on impact of war, N. Schifrin & Z. Warsi, PBS News (2023) Russian Spy or Ukrainian Hero? The Strange Death of Denys Kiryeyev, B. Forrest, The Wall Street Journal (2023) In Ukraine, New Reports of War Crimes Emerge as Russians Retreat From Kyiv Area, B. Forrest, The Wall Street Journal (2022) Questioning the Case for War, C. A. Preble, CATO Institute (2018)  CIA Intercepts Underpin Assessment Saudi Crown Prince Targeted Khashoggi, W. Strobel, The Wall Street Journal (2018) Video Lost Son with Brett Forrest, International Spy Museum, YouTube (2023)  Ukrainians in Bucha reflect on horrors and brutality suffered at hands of Russian forces, PBS News (2023) Primary Sources  It is time to do everything to make the war crimes of the Russian military the last manifestation of this evil on earth - address by the President of Ukraine (2022)  UN Report on the Killing of Civilians in Ukraine (2022) McClatchy (Knight Ridder) Iraq Intelligence Archive (2001-2007) Reporting the War (2005) *Wildcard Resource* Shock and Awe (2017) Starring James Marsden as Warren Strobel!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary General Frank McKenzie (Biography, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss his new book, The Melting Point. General McKenzie was the 14th commander of the United States Central Command.  What You’ll Learn Intelligence Combatant commands and their purpose Leading CENTCOM, Central Command The role of intelligence in military leadership  The US withdrawal from Afghanistan Reflections Learning from the lessons of history  The importance and impact of leadership  And much, much more … Quotes of the Week “What that leads you to is really, intelligence. It paints that picture and it describes the operational environment within which you can operate. So here's the risk. If you're an aggressive commander … There's a temptation to lean on intelligence to tell you what you want to hear, shape the information … In the back of your mind, you need to recognize, you can't go into it with what I would call confirmation bias.” – General Frank McKenzie. Resources  SURFACE SKIM *Spotlight Resource*  The Melting Point: High Command and War in the 21st Century, Kenneth F. McKenzie (Naval Institute Press, 2024) *SpyCasts* CIA Director, Defense Secretary, Gentleman with Leon Panetta (2024) David Petraeus on Ukraine & Intelligence with the former CIA Director & 4* General (2023) Intelligence, Special Operations, and Strategy with Michael Vickers (2023) Irregular Warfare & Intelligence with IWC Director Dennis Walters (2023) *Beginner Resources* CENTCOM, Encyclopaedia Britannica (2024) [Encyclopedia entry] Why the Middle East is so important to the US, BBC World Service, YouTube (2024) [10 min. video] Combatant Commands, U.S. Department of Defense (n.d.) [Brief overviews of the 11 Unified Combatant Commands] DEEPER DIVE Primary Sources  Retirement Ceremony Honors CENTCOM Commander (2022) U.S. Central Command Statement on the Realignment of the State of Israel (2021) Memorandum Re: January 2020 Airstrike in Iraq Against Qassem Soleimani (2020) Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan (2020) Remarks by President Trump on the Death of ISIS Leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi (2019)  Goldwater-Nichols Act (1986) *Wildcard Resource* Letter from Abraham Lincoln to Ulysses S. Grant (1863) In this famous letter, Lincoln congratulates Major General Grant on his leadership during the Siege of Vicksburg, a critical success for the Union army. Perhaps not often done by a president, Lincoln here admits his strategy was wrong, and praises the intellect and military prowess of Grant.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary An expert panel of world leaders gathered at the International Spy Museum to discuss the importance of NATO today and in the future. Panelists included former Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, Latvian President Edgars Rinkēvičs, among others.  What You’ll Learn Intelligence Threats facing Baltic countries, including Russia The importance of NATO support for Ukraine Maintaining stability during political turmoil NATO’s growth and where it still needs to evolve in the 21st century Reflections The power of global partnerships  The impact of honest leadership  And much, much more … Quotes of the Week “In the old days, NATO was kind of a place where everybody did their talking points and then left. But for the first time in a very long time, NATO is more than just a forum. It is a security alliance that is very important to protecting world peace.” – Leon Panetta. Resources  SURFACE SKIM *SpyCasts* Zelensky, Ukraine & Intelligence with Simon Shuster (2024) CIA Director, Defense Secretary, Gentleman with Leon Panetta (2024) Ukraine & the Alliance with NATO’s Assistant Secretary General for Intelligence David Cattler (2023) NATO’s Assistant Secretary General for Intelligence & Security with David Cattler (2022) *Beginner Resources* Why are the Baltic states strategically important for NATO? A. Sytas, Reuters (2023) [Short article] Ukraine conflict: Simple visual guide to the Russian invasion, BBC (2022) [Short article] The Formation of NATO and the Warsaw Pact | History, YouTube (2017) [3 min. video] DEEPER DIVE Primary Sources  Statement by the North Atlantic Council on recent Russian hybrid activities (2024) Joint letter to DoD for Urgent Ukraine Aid (2024) Address by the President to Ukrainians at the end of the first day of Russia's attacks (2022)  Statement by the North Atlantic Council on the situation at the Poland-Belarus border (2021) Protocol to the North Atlantic Treaty on the Accession of the Republic of Estonia (2003) Protocol to the North Atlantic Treaty on the accession of the Republic of Latvia (2003) Protocol to the North Atlantic Treaty on the accession of the Republic of Lithuania (2003) The North Atlantic Treaty (1949) *Wildcard Resource* Our international panelists in this week’s episode hail from the beautiful countries of Latvia, Estonia, and Croatia. To learn more about the history and culture of these countries, take virtual tours of their national museums or libraries here:  Hrvatski povijesni muzej, Croatian History Museum Latvijas Nacionālā bibliotēka, National Library of Latvia Eesti Rahva Muuseum, Estonian National Museum  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary Camille Stewart Gloster (X, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss her career in cyber. Camille was the first Deputy National Cyber Director for Technology & Ecosystem for the White House.  What You’ll Learn Intelligence The intersections between technology and law The origins of the cyber threat The importance of cyber education Building a diverse cyber workforce Reflections Challenging narratives and norms Strategic education And much, much more … Quotes of the Week “Another part of the problem is having a conversation where people understand that they do a lot of this work every day. Honing those skills and being intentional about them and then applying them to a career means a transition from a hobby to something more concrete. And that narrative piece of making cybersecurity not seem so overwhelming is a big part of the work as well.” – Camille Stewart Gloster.  Resources  SURFACE SKIM *SpyCasts* Indian Intelligence & Cyber – A Conversation with Sameer Patil, ORF Mumbai (2023) Espionage and the Metaverse with Cathy Hackl (2023) The FBI & Cyber with Cyber Division Chief Bryan Vorndran (Part 1 of 2) (2022) The FBI & Cyber with Cyber Division Chief Bryan Vorndran (Part 2 of 2) (2022) Trafficking Data: The Digital Struggle with China with Aynne Kokas (2022) *Beginner Resources* What is Cybersecurity? CISA (2021) [Short article] What is Cyber? Marketing Business Network, YouTube (2019) [2 min. video] Why Is Cybersecurity Important? CompTIA (n.d.) [Short article] DEEPER DIVE Primary Sources  2024 Report on the Cybersecurity Posture of the United States (2024) National Cyber Workforce and Education Strategy: Initial Stages of Implementation (2024) Executive Order on Preventing Access to Americans’ Bulk Sensitive Personal Data and United States Government-Related Data by Countries of Concern (2024) National Cybersecurity Strategy (2023) National Cybersecurity Strategy Implementation Plan (2023) National Cyber Workforce and Education Strategy (2023) CHIPS Act (2022) Executive Order on Improving the Nation’s Cybersecurity (2021) *Wildcard Resource* Test your cybersecurity awareness with this #BeCyberSmart crossword from the Center for Development of Security Excellence.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices