Bonus Episode - My Conversation / Intervention with Justin Stapley

Justin Stapley and I have been on similar journeys these past many years seeking to better understand our worldviews and the ever-changing political moment and how best to restore sanity and integrity to our politics. But while I've been diligently producing podcast episodes for these past seven years, Justin has launched a dizzying array of projects. In his own words: There's an ongoing joke between myself and @svngelephants that every time I'm on his podcast, I've rebranded. And he's not necessarily wrong, lol. Here's the various blogs and efforts I've done since 2016... Never Tyranny was my first anonymous blog in 2016. I started writing while I was briefly working in the Global Services Center for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as I was transitioning from one police agency to another. Very much a 2016-esque #NeverTrump blog, with the moniker "Never Hillary, Never Trump, Never Tyranny." I was inspired to start writing after reading the "Against Trump" issue of National Review, an issue that also introduced me to a host of writers, most of them at @NRO at that time, that I continue to read to this day, such as @JonahDispatch, @DavidAFrench, KD Williamson, @EWErickson, and @jpodhoretz. As you can tell from the borrowed image from "Washington's Spies," this first blog was very unpolished as I kind of stumbled my toward becoming a better political writer. While this blog never really took off, I did get a small bump when Rush Limbaugh used the term "Never Tyranny" on his show, though he didn't use it in a anti-Trump context. After Donald Trump's 2016 victory, I wanted to transition to an anonymous identity that was positive and forward thinking, that was about what I was for as opposed to what I was just against. In my hopes that the Trump presidency would lead to a broader re-embrace of federalism across the spectrum, I chose to name my new blog "The Millennial Federalist" and began writing under this moniker in 2017. This blog was far more widely read than Never Tyranny was, and was well known among certain segments of the 2017 #NeverTrump movement. This blog became particularly attached to the short lived Federalist Party effort and it's mildly popular #FedUp hashtag, as well as to @RealFedCo (now defunct), where I first released articles under my real name. Sometime in 2018 and 2019, I decided I wanted to create a more collaborative effort and create a blog where liberty-minded conservatives could post articles and engage in debate and dialogue. My idea at the time was that libertarians and NeverTrump conservatives could come together and throw their weight behind a a candidate who could attempt to challenge Trump in the 2020 GOP primary and pivot to either an independent candidacy or get on the Libertarian Party ticket. This idea became what I chose to call the Liberty Hawk. Within the blog, I wrote under my own name and then hosted any other writers who wanted to be published there. (This effort was when I first became acquainted with @ConservaMuse, who published several articles at The Liberty Hawk in his senior year of high school). While my vision for a "fusion" candidate in 2020 came close to realization with @justinamash, the idea was thwarted both by Libertarians who refused to work with "statist" conservatives and by NeverTrump personalities and organizations who felt a strong third option would risk undermining Joe Biden. It was at this point that I broke from #NeverTrump because I didn't want to belong to an effort that boosted Democrats. Self-Evident was a moniker I used twice. First as my next effort after I transitioned away from The Liberty Hawk and then for the last year or so as well. In my frustration with the direction the #NeverTrump effort had taken, I pivoted in mid-2020 to the idea that I would involve myself less in direct political activism and instead focusing on illuminating the "self-evident" truths and first principles of free government. This was also when I began my first podcast, also called Self-Evident, but I only released episode intermittently, adding up to only 15 episodes over the course of several years. I blogged at Self-Evident and engaged online throughout 2022-2023 even while deployed to Kuwait and Syria with the Idaho National Guard. During my deployment, I completed by Bachelor's degree and envisioned returning home and starting a 501(c)3 with an associated publication. I attempted to follow through on this idea by founding and leading The Freemen Foundation and establishing The Freemen News-Letter. For a little over a year, I we published tremendously relevant and high quality articles from many figures across the conservative intellectual community. During most of this time, I worked full-time as the founding director and president of the foundation, and as editor in chief of the news-letter, but was only mildly compensated as we ran into the difficult realities of securing funding for such an audacious project. I chose to wrap up the effort late last year because I felt the excellent writers of the effort deserved compensation and deserved to have their articles more widely read. I also had returned to college to complete a Master's degree and could no longer commit the kind of time I had been committing. And that brings us fully up to date with my newest project, The Conservative Underground. Less audacious in scope than the Freemen Foundation, but hopefully still incredibly impactful. I'll be publishing a weekly podcast and weekly newsletter moving forward under this banner. https://conservativeunderground.substack.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@ConservativeUnderground Clearly, an intervention is in order. In this bonus, cross-over episode Justin and I explore the paths that brought us to where we are today and where we might be headed.  

One cannot BE a conservative.  One can only aspire to conservatism.  So says John Wilsey in his new book Religious Freedom: A Conservative Primer.  Perhaps Roger Scruton’s How to be a Conservative was a worthy endeavor but too audacious of a title.   John Wilsey joins Saving Elephants host Josh Lewis to flesh out the aspirational nature of conservatism and how it grounds the individual.  They explore the religious roots of American conservatism and the challenges of bringing up a new generation of conservatives without the giants of the past conservatives had to look to for inspiration and encouragement.   About John Wilsey John D. Wilsey is Professor of Church History and Philosophy and Chair of the Church History Department at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and Senior Fellow at the Center for Religion, Culture, and Democracy, an initiative of the First Liberty Institute. He is also a research fellow with the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention and a research fellow with the Land Center for Cultural Engagement at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. He is the recipient of research fellowships from the James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions at Princeton University, the McConnell Center at the University of Louisville, the Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty, and the Russell Kirk Center for Cultural Renewal. He lives with his family in Louisville, Kentucky.  

In the wake of Charlie Kirk's shocking assassination, Americans are bracing for further political attacks. But is further violence inevitable? And what can be done to prevent things from escalating? Saving Elephants host Josh Lewis assembles a roundtable to discuss these sobering and important issues.  The panelists include: Avi Woolf - Host of Avi's Conversational Corner Ryan Rogers - Host of Reality Therapy Shawn Whatley - Host of Concepts with Shawn Whatley Corey Nathan - Host of Talkin' Politics and Religion without Killin' Each Other Justin Stapley - Host of Self-Evident Substack

Is Trump correct that Canada is destined to be America’s 51st state?  Or is there simply too much distinction between Canada and the United States to collapse us both into one homogenous mess?  If conservatives in the U.S. are trying to conserve the American revolution, what are Canadian conservatives hoping to conserve?  How might these two liberty-loving nations help each other better understand each other through comparison?  Joining Saving Elephants host Josh Lewis is Shawn Whatley to make sense of it all.   About Shawn Whatley Shawn Whatley hosts Concepts with Shawn Whatley, a weekly podcast focusing on political ideas, culture, and news.   Shawn, MD, is a seasoned physician leader with experience in emergency medicine and primary care and extensive experience in health care administration and medical politics.  Dr. Whatley contributes articles regularly to The Medical Post and serves on the Post’s Physician Advisory Committee. Dr. Whatley has served on the board of the Ontario Medical Association and more recently on the board of the Canadian Medical Association, as well as on numerous hospital and provincial planning committees. He is a Lecturer for the University of Toronto, Department of Family and Community Medicine, and an Assistant Clinical Professor (Adjunct) in McMaster University’s department of Family Medicine, Hamilton, Ontario.   Dr. Whatley is the author of the two books, When Politics Comes Before Patients – Why and how Canadian Medicare is failing and the highly praised book on how to fix emergency wait times in Canada, No More Lethal Waits. Combating Political Violence Roundtable   Join another Saving Elephants livestream on Thursday, September 18 at 7:00PM CST for a roundtable discussion on the assassination of Charlie Kirk and how we might combat political violence: https://www.youtube.com/@savingelephants  

Few forerunners of the modern conservative movement are as important, little known, and underappreciated as Frank Meyer.  Meyer possessed the IT factor that made women want him and men want to be associated with him.  He used that in his early years to advance Marxism in England—building an impressive Marxist organization that had the attention of UK’s government, dating the Prime Minister’s daughter while calling for the violent overthrow of the Prime Minister’s government, and becoming a national celebrity as the nation debated whether he should be exiled.  But later in life, when he turned to the Right, that same charisma was used to help William F. Buckley build a fledgling conservative movement that ultimately changed the politics of the nation.   Joining Josh to discuss this most remarkable life is Daniel J. Flynn, author of his latest book: The Man Who Invented Conservatism: The Unlikely Life of Frank S. Meyer.   About Daniel J. Flynn From spectator.org Daniel J. Flynn, a senior editor of The American Spectator, serves as a visiting fellow at the Hoover Institution for the 2024-2025 academic year. His books include Cult City: Harvey Milk, Jim Jones, and 10 Days That Shook San Francisco (ISI Books, 2018), Blue Collar Intellectuals: When the Enlightened and the Everyman Elevated America (ISI Books, 2011), A Conservative History of the American Left (Crown Forum, 2008), and Intellectual Morons: How Ideology Makes Smart People Fall for Stupid Ideas (Crown Forum, 2004). In 2025, he releases his magnum opus, The Man Who Invented Conservatism: The Unlikely Life of Frank S. Meyer. He splits time between city Massachusetts and cabin Vermont.    About The Book Frank Meyer devised the blueprint for American conservatism—fusionism—championed by Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan, and so many to this day. Yet long before and far away, Communists in London chanted “Free Frank Meyer!” to block the deportation of a comrade who was their cause célèbre. Those fervent Marxists could never have predicted that their hero would one day provide the intellectual energy necessary to propel conservatives to political power.    The Man Who Invented Conservatism unveils one of the twentieth century’s great untold stories: a Communist turned conservative, an antiwar activist turned soldier, and a free-love enthusiast turned family man whose big idea captured the American Right. This intellectual migration coincided with a clandestine affair inside 10 Downing Street, service as a lieutenant to the man who later constructed the Berlin Wall, and neighborly chats with the pop-star and poet celebrity next door. Present at the creation of National Review, Meyer helped launch Joan Didion’s writing career. From H. G. Wells to Henry Kissinger to Milton Friedman, he rubbed shoulders with everyone who mattered.   Having discovered Meyer’s previously unexamined correspondence in an old soda warehouse, Daniel J. Flynn documents this saga in The Man Who Invented Conservatism, exposing the rivalries, jealousies, friendships, and fights that shaped the movement and what it means to be a conservative today.  

Some Americans warn Trump's antics in this second term are flirting with fascism while others say that's totally whacked. So which is it? Is Trump a fascist or nothing of the kind? Join our livestream as our panelists engage over the topic. Panelists include: Josh Lewis (host), Mike Taylor, Blake Fischer, John Giokaris, Steve Phelps, and Kent Straith

Steven Hayward has been involved in so many conservative institutions and organizations it may be simpler to list where he hasn’t left a mark.  This conservative man-about-town joins Saving Elephants host Josh Lewis as they unravel what it means to be a conservative, how Straussians might make peace with Burke, and why Josh shouldn’t be so critical of the Trump administration.   About Steven Hayward Steven F. Hayward is a fellow of the Public Law and Policy Program at Berkeley Law and visiting professor in School of Public Policy at Pepperdine University.   Steven frequently writes on a wide range of current topics, including environmentalism, law, economics, and public policy for publications including National Review, Reason, The Weekly Standard, The American Spectator, The Public Interest, the Claremont Review of Books, and the Policy Review at the Hoover Institution.  His newspaper articles have appeared in the New York Times, Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, the San Francisco Chronicle, the Chicago Tribune, and dozens of other daily newspapers.   He is the author of a two-volume narrative history of Ronald Reagan and his effect on American political life, The Age of Reagan: The Fall of the Old Liberal Order, 1964-1980, and The Age of Reagan: The Conservative Counter-Revolution, 1980-1989.  His other books include Index of Leading Environmental Indicators; The Almanac of Environmental Trends; Mere Environmentalism: A Biblical Perspective on Humans and the Natural World, Churchill on Leadership; Greatness: Reagan, Churchill, and the Making of Extraordinary Leaders; Patriotism Is Not Enough; and M. Stanton Evans: Conservative Wit, Apostle of Freedom.   Steven has also served as visiting fellow professor, scholar, or lecturer at the Intercollegiate Studies Institute (ISI), Ashland University, Mont Pelerin Society, Pacific Research Institute, The Heritage Foundation, American Enterprise Institute, Georgetown University, The Fund for American Studies, and University of Colorado Boulder.   His blog, powerlineblog.com, is one of the nation’s most-read political websites.  

The MAGA coalition is comprised of a wide spectrum whose sole unifying idea is Trump himself. But what happens when that precarious foundation begins to fray? Have recent events shown cracks in the MAGA world that could quickly fracture, or is this all a tempest in a teapot? Join Saving Elephant panelists during our livestream to make sense of it all. Panelists include: Josh Lewis (host), Ryan Rogers, Destry Edwards, Scott Howard, and Christopher Chesny

Younger Americans—regardless of their political affiliations—are increasingly supportive focusing on environmental and conservation issues.  But while there may be renewed unity on recognizing the importance of such issues, the policies advocated by the Left and Right continue to differ.  The American Conservation Coalition (ACC) is a group of young Americans on the political Right standing up for action over activism in their approach to environmental reform.  Joining Saving Elephants host Josh Lewis is ACC’s COO, Stephen Perkins, to discuss how economic prosperity and a clean environment don’t necessarily have to be mutually exclusive, how younger Americans differ from past generations on environmental questions, what’s up with climate change, the prospects of a nuclear-powered future, and much more.   About Stephen Perkins From acc.eco   Stephen Perkins is a conservative strategist and Chief Operating Officer of the American Conservation Coalition (ACC). He oversees ACC’s national operations and coordinates strategy among its grassroots, grasstops, communications, and administrative departments.   Stephen’s career has centered on community, leadership, and mobilization. One of ACC’s original volunteers, he joined the organization full-time in 2021 as the Vice President of Grassroots Strategy, leading field operations and growing membership to more than 40,000 young Americans. Before joining ACC, he was a partner at a digital marketing firm, assisting more than 50 political and advocacy clients in building successful digital programs over three election cycles. Earlier in his career, he provided marketing, advocacy, and leadership strategy to several political and educational organizations.   Stephen’s work and writing have been featured in publications such as Fox News, The Hill, Real Clear Energy, Townhall, the Washington Examiner, and The Dallas Morning News.   He holds a degree in Political Science from the University of Texas at Arlington, with a concentration in political leadership and civic engagement. A proud Texan, Stephen resides in the Hill Country with his dog, Hudson, and enjoys hiking, camping, hunting, Texas country music, and volunteering at the San Antonio Stock Show & Rodeo.  

On July 6 Saving Elephants assembled an august team of commentators to commemorate the advent of the United States turning the big 2-4-9!  With only one year to go until the nation is 250 years old, the group reflects on the foundational ideas of America, whether she's succeed or failed at those aspirations, and what the future holds for this most exceptional of nations.   Meet the panelists:   Lura Forcum   Lura Forcum leads the Independent Center, the nation’s go-to organization for information, research, and engagement with independent voters, representing those who are fed up with partisan politics and feel politically homeless.   Lura holds a PhD in marketing and consumer psychology from Indiana University (Kelley School of Business). She’s studied social cognition and brands, focusing on the factors that lead consumers to respond to brands as if they were people and the outcomes of doing so.  Prior to becoming president of the Independent Center, Lura was the Director of Marketing and Communications at the State Policy Network.   Jeffery Tyler Syck From jtylersyck.com   Jeffery Tyler Syck is an Assistant Professor of Political Science at the University of Pikeville.   Tyler’s academic research focuses on the development of American democracy and the history of political ideologies. He is the editor of the forthcoming book “A Republic of Virtue: The Political Essays of John Quincy Adams” and is completing a second book manuscript entitled “The Untold Origins of American Democracy.” This second book describes how the political debates between John Quincy Adams and Andrew Jackson forever altered the republic created by the American founders – leaving behind an increasingly majoritarian democracy. His essays and articles on politics, philosophy, and history have appeared in several public facing publications including Law and Liberty, Persuasion, and the Louisville Courier-Journal. Tyler’s academic work has recently been published in the journal Pietas.   A native of Pike County Kentucky, Tyler’s political thought and writing are strongly shaped by the culture of Appalachia. With their tightly knit communities, the mountains of Appalachia have instilled in him a love of all things local. As such his writing most often advocates for a rejuvenation of local democracy and a renaissance of rural culture.   Tyler received a Doctor of Philosophy and Master of Arts in Government from the University of Virginia. He received a Bachelor of Arts in Government and History from Morehead State University where he graduated with honors.   About Eric Kohn From americasfuture.org   Eric Kohn is Chief Executive Officer at America’s Future, the premier nationwide network of liberty-minded young leaders. For more than 10 years, he led the organization’s Chicago chapter. Prior to joining AF, Eric was Chief Marketing Officer at Empower Illinois. He has also previously served as Director of Marketing & Communications at the Acton Institute, and Director of Community Management at the Illinois Policy Institute. He was also the Founder and CEO of Curious Task Strategies, a public affairs consulting firm. Eric is a producer of the award-winning film The Hong Konger: Jimmy Lai's Extraordinary Struggle for Freedom, the 2022 documentary feature from the Acton Institute. From 2019 to 2021, he co-hosted Sources with Knowledge along with Joe Kaiser on AM 560 The Answer in Chicago. From 2022 to 2023, he was the interim host of the nationally syndicated radio program Beyond the Beltway with Bruce DuMont, on which he was also a regular program guest and guest host. He previously hosted The Eric Kohn Program on AM 1530 WJJG, and has guest-hosted the nationally syndicated The Guy Benson Show, Illinois Watchdog Radio, and Chicago’s Morning Answer. Eric grew up in Belleville, Ill., and is a graduate of Millikin University in Decatur, Ill. He lives in Grand Rapids, Mich., with his wife and two children. In his spare time, he enjoys (or attempts to enjoy) watching New York Rangers hockey, which he also writes and podcasts about for Blueshirt Banter.