156 – Reappraising the Right’s Foreign Policy with Michael Lucchese

In February of 2004 the late Charles Krauthammer delivered the keynote address at AEI’s Annual Dinner.  It was a year into the Iraqi war and several years into the War on Terror.  Krauthammer’s address—entitled Democratic Realism—lauded much of the Bush administration’s approach to the war, but offered some stern warnings on how the war and rebuilding efforts might go awry.  His warnings proved to be profoundly prescient as the following years led to the disillusionment of what broadly (and wrongly) became known as NeoCon foreign policy.   What had the Right missed in Krauthammer’s warnings?  What foreign policy approaches has the United States historically taken, and are any of them still relevant?  How might conservatism shed light on the most appropriate foreign policy we could pursue?  Joining Saving Elephants host Josh Lewis is returning guest Michael Lucchese to think through the lessons learned in American foreign policy.   About Michael Lucchese Michael Lucchese is the founder and CEO of Pipe Creek Consulting, a communications firm based in Washington, D.C., and a visiting scholar at the Liberty Fund.  Previously, he was a communications aide to U.S. Senator Ben Sasse.   He received a BA in American Studies at Hillsdale College and was a Hudson Institute Political Studies fellow and an alumnus of the Röpke-Wojtyła Fellowship at Catholic University of America's Busch School of Business. Michael is an Associate Editor at Law & Liberty and a contributing editor to Providence.  His writings have also appeared in multiple publications, including the Washington Examiner and National Review, Engelsberg Ideas, and Public Discourse. Michael Lucchese is from Chicago, Illinois.   Michael was a previous guest on Saving Elephants in episode 143 – The Conservative Mind at 70 with Michael Lucchese  

How might music point us to the good, the true, and the beautiful?  What is the purpose of music, and we are guilty of misusing it?  Why are we so obsessed with Taylor Swift?  Musician and conservative journalist Barney Quick joins Josh to discuss how conservatism might better inform our approach to music.  Also discussed are whether or not the elephants can be saved at all, how an owning-the-libs approach misses the spirit of conservatism, and whether or not Principles First has lost its first principles.   About Barney Quick Barney Quick is a journalist whose work appears in magazine features.  He is a frequent contributor to Ordinary Times and a Senior Freelance Contributor for The Freeman News-Letter.  He has been maintaining his blog, Late in the Day, since 2012.  But you can find the bulk of his writings on his substack Precipice.   Barney is also a musician and jazz guitarist who could find lucrative gigs, but is well aware he’s chosen a musical life that isn’t going to pay a lot of bills.   Barney is an adjunct lecturer in jazz history and rock and roll history at his local community college.   You can follow Barney on Twitter @Penandguitar  

After a stint of episodes taking deep dives into obscure topics, Josh returns to some conservative first-principles by inviting long-time friend of the podcast Cal Davenport on for a wide-ranging discussion on whether or not the fusionist consensus is truly dead, why all the energy in the Right seems to be going towards the NatCons, what’s leading to the rise of populism, how to repackage conservative ideas into digestible slogans, who belongs on the Mt. Rushmore of conservative thought, and how Edmund Burke factors into all of this.  Trigger warning for the Straussian listener: this episode gets a bit Burke-y.   About Cal Davenport Cal Davenport is a veteran podcaster and writer.  He has written for The Wasington Examiner, RedState, The Resurgent and more.  He has worked in Congress, for political campaigns, for think tanks, and in political consulting.  Cal received his M.A. in Philosophy, Politics, and Economics from Witten/Herdecke University.  You can follow Cal on Twitter @jcaldavenport  

David Bahnsen returns to the podcast to discuss his latest book: Full-Time: Work and the Meaning of Life.  David holds a high view of work and, in an era where self-help gurus are teaching us how to work less to achieve a work/life balance, David wants to shift the paradigm to work/rest and celebrate the productive nature of our being.  Also discussed in this episode are what the church gets wrong about work, how each generation brings different challenges and advantages to work culture, universal basic income (UBI), whether the Marxist are right and work under a capitalist system is exploitation, and what the future of retirement might mean for working Americans.   About David Bahnsen From David’s website:   David L. Bahnsen is the founder, Managing Partner, and Chief Investment Officer of The Bahnsen Group, a bi-coastal private wealth management firm with offices in Newport Beach, CA, New York City, Minneapolis, and Nashville managing over $3.5 billion in client assets.  David is consistently named as one of the top financial advisors in America by Barron’s, Forbes, and the Financial Times.  He is a frequent guest on CNBC, Bloomberg, and Fox Business and is a regular contributor to National Review and Forbes.  He has written his own political viewpoint blog for over a decade.   David serves on the Board of Directors for the National Review Institute and was the Vice-President of the Lincoln Club of Orange County for eight years.  He is a committed donor and activist across all spectrums of national, state, and local politics, and views the cause of Buckley and Reagan as the need of the hour.   David is passionate about opposition to crony capitalism, and has lectured and written for years about the need for pro-growth economic policy.  Every part of his political worldview stems from a desire to see greater freedom as a catalyst to greater human flourishing.   He is the author of the book, Crisis of Responsibility: Our Cultural Addiction to Blame and How You Can Cure It and his most recent book, There’s No Free Lunch: 250 Economic Truths.   His ultimate passions are his lovely wife of 18+ years, Joleen, their gorgeous and brilliant children, sons Mitchell and Graham, and daughter Sadie, and the life they’ve created together in Newport Beach, California.  

Fusionism—the viewpoint advocated by the likes of William F. Buckley and Frank Meyer of order and liberty mutually reinforcing each other—has been the dominant form of conservatism in the United States for a generation.  In the era of Trump and the rise of nationalist populism on the Right, however, fusionism has steadily lost influence.  Should conservatives double down on what’s worked in the past?  Or is it time for a different approach that was advocated by some of the original critics of fusionism on the Right?   Joining Saving Elephants host Josh Lewis is Jeffery Tyler Syck to argue for a conservative alternative to the fusionists and NatCons: humanist conservatism.  The humanist conservative is interested in preserving the diverse daily practices of human existence, as advocated by noteworthy thinkers like Michael Oakeshott, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, and Peter Viereck.  It’s a quitter, more moderated form of conservatism that—Syck believes—could offer an antidote to the excess of the nationalist populous radicalism ascendant on the Right.   About Jeffery Tyler Syck From jtylersyck.com   Jeffery Tyler Syck is an Assistant Professor of Political Science at the University of Pikeville.   Tyler’s academic research focuses on the development of American democracy and the history of political ideologies. He is the editor of the forthcoming book “A Republic of Virtue: The Political Essays of John Quincy Adams” and is completing a second book manuscript entitled “The Untold Origins of American Democracy.” This second book describes how the political debates between John Quincy Adams and Andrew Jackson forever altered the republic created by the American founders – leaving behind an increasingly majoritarian democracy. His essays and articles on politics, philosophy, and history have appeared in several public facing publications including Law and Liberty, Persuasion, and the Louisville Courier-Journal. Tyler’s academic work has recently been published in the journal Pietas.   A native of Pike County Kentucky, Tyler’s political thought and writing are strongly shaped by the culture of Appalachia. With their tightly knit communities, the mountains of Appalachia have instilled in him a love of all things local. As such his writing most often advocates for a rejuvenation of local democracy and a renaissance of rural culture.   Tyler received a Doctor of Philosophy and Master of Arts in Government from the University of Virginia. He received a Bachelor of Arts in Government and History from Morehead State University where he graduated with honors.   You can follow Tyler on Twitter @tylersyck  

What is the single most important virtue for a leader to possess?  What quality can make the run-of-the-mill politician into a statesman?  Is it integrity, communication skills, resilience, courage, empathy, or wisdom?  All of these things are important, of course, and if any are sufficiently lacking we wouldn’t call that a good leader.  But what would you say is the chief virtue?   Conservative thinkers from Burke to Kirk to Kristol to Strauss and even many of the ancient and medieval thinkers from Aristotle to Plato to St. Thomas Aquainis identified a single virtue as the chief “political” virtue.  A virtue so important that Edmund Burke referred to it as the god of this lower world.   What is that virtue?  That’s exactly what Saving Elephants host Josh Lewis explores in this solo episode.   Mentioned in the episode: Saul Alinsky’s interview on William F. Buckley’s Firing Line.  

What is the purpose of higher education?  Is it primarily to prepare us for the jobs of the future?  Is it to ensure the leaders of tomorrow hold the right opinions on important issues?  Is it to provide a safe haven for the pursuit of Truth?   Thinkers on the Right have held differing—sometimes incompatible—views on the purpose of higher education.  Joining Saving Elephants host Josh Lewis is returning guest Luke Sheahan to explore these arguments and how conservatives might respond to the rise of radicalism and wokism on college campuses.   About Luke Sheahan   From Luke’s website: Luke Sheahan is Assistant Professor in the Department of Political Science at Duquesne University and a Non-Resident Scholar at the Program for Research on Religion and Urban Civil Society (PRRUCS) at the University of Pennsylvania.  He researches the intersection of First Amendment rights and political theory.  Sheahan’s scholarly articles and reviews have appeared in The Political Science Reviewer, Humanitas, Anamnesis, and The Journal of Value Inquiry and he has lectured widely on religious liberty, freedom of speech, and freedom of association.  He is author of Why Associations Matter: The Case for First Amendment Pluralism.  He is writing a second book tentatively titled “Pluralism and Toleration: Difference, Justice, and the Social Group.”   From 2018-2019, Sheahan was Associate Director and Post-Doctoral Research Fellow at the Freedom Project at Wellesley College and from 2016-2018, Sheahan was a Postdoctoral Associate and Research Fellow in the Department of Political Science at Duke University.  He received a PhD and MA in political theory from the Catholic University of America and a B.S. in political science from the Honors College at Oregon State University.  He is a five-time recipient of the Humane Studies Fellowship from the Institute for Humane Studies, a 2014 recipient of the Richard M. Weaver Fellowship from the Intercollegiate Studies Institute (ISI), and a 2018 recipient of the Leonard P. Liggio Memorial Fellowship.   In 2022 the Russell Kirk Center announced the appointment of Dr. Luke C. Sheahan as the fifth editor in the history of The University Bookman, originally established by none other than Russell Kirk, seeking to redeem the time by identifying and discussing those books that diagnose the modern age and support the renewal of culture and the common good.   You can follow Luke on Twitter @lsheahan  

Having published more than forty books on an astoundingly wide range of topics and holding noteworthy positions at the British Academy and the Royal Society of Literature, the University of Oxford, the Ethics and Public Policy Center, and the University of Buckingham, Sir Roger Scruton was the quintessential British gentleman and scholar.  He was also one of the greatest conservative intellectuals of the last century and the beginning of this century who died in 2020.  Fisher Derderian joins Saving Elephants host Josh Lewis for a woefully incomplete exploration at the legacy of Scruton, including Scruton’s contributions to American conservatism, his curious admiration of Friedrich Hegel, his spirited yet charitable critics of the thinkers of the New Left, and his inscrutable views on the Christian faith.   About Fisher Derderian Source – Scruton.org   Fisher Derderian is the Founder and Executive Director of the Roger Scruton Legacy Foundation.  He met Sir Roger as a student in the MA Philosophy Programme at the University of Buckingham and the idea for the RSLF was subsequently conceived at a tutorial with Scruton.   Fisher currently resides in Orange County with his wife, Maxine, and their three children.  He serves as a member of the Arts Commission for the City of Costa Mesa.  Fisher holds a BA in Politics, Philosophy and Economics from The King’s College NYC and a MA in Philosophy from the University of Buckingham.  You can follow Fisher on Twitter @Fisher_D   About the Roger Scruton Legacy Foundation Source – Scruton.org   The Roger Scruton Legacy Foundation is the centre of an international network of institutions and scholars dedicated to furthering the philosophical and cultural achievements of the West championed in Scruton’s work.  Through the hosting and sponsoring of events, lectures, seminars, research and projects, the RSLF supports those dedicated to the achievements of Western philosophy, architecture, art and literature who are committed to living for ‘the vanished things’ and teaching our great inheritance to the rising generations.  

The Saving Elephants podcast has welcomed a wide array of incredible guests who are on forefront of the conservative political movement.  But most of the guests discuss conservatism from the perspective of a theory or set of principles or idea.  Few have had the opportunity to enact political conservatism as a practice.  And few ex-politicians have been as successful as former Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels in advancing conservatism as a practice.  While Daniels is reticent to label his approach “conservative” or identify as part of red team vs. blue team, his practices in executive offices from the governor’s mansion to serving in presidential administrations to leading a university have all displayed a strong tinge of conservative prudence and small-government grit.   Saving Elephants host Josh Lewis welcomes former Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels to the show to discuss his experiences as governor, advisor to Ronald Reagan, Director of OMB for George W. Bush, president of Purdue University.  His accomplishments in these offices and no-nonsense approach towards governing has earned him recognition among many on the Right.  Some leading conservatives—from George Will to Jonah Goldberg to Ross Douthat—have clearly stated he would have been their preferred presidential candidate in recent elections.  While Daniels isn’t a presidential candidate then or now, his story provides a roadmap in our politically bleak wilderness for what qualities we should be looking for in a leader.   About Mitch Daniels from Purdue University   Mitchell E. Daniels, Jr. is the 12th president of Purdue University and the former governor of Indiana.  He was elected Indiana’s 49th governor in 2004 in his first bid for any elected office, and then re-elected in 2008 with more votes than any candidate in the state's history.  During his tenure, Indiana went from an $800 million deficit to its first AAA credit rating, led the nation in infrastructure building and passed sweeping education and healthcare reforms.   After a series of transformations, which included the biggest tax cut in state history, the nation’s most sweeping deregulation of the telecommunications industry and a host of other reforms aimed at strengthening the state’s economy, Indiana was rated a top five state for business climate and number one for state infrastructure and effectiveness of state government as Daniels exited office.  Indiana’s business climate is now rated among the nation’s best.   At Purdue, Daniels has prioritized student affordability and reinvestment in the university’s strengths.  Breaking with a 36-year trend, Purdue has held tuition unchanged from 2012 through at least the 2022-23 academic year.  Simultaneously, room rates have remained steady, meal plan rates have fallen about 10%, and student borrowing has dropped 32% while investments in student success and STEM research have undergone unprecedented growth. It is less expensive to attend Purdue today than it was in 2012.   In recognition of his leadership as both a governor and a university president, Daniels was named among the Top 50 World Leaders by Fortune Magazine in 2015 and was elected to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in 2019.   Prior to becoming governor, Daniels served as chief of staff to Senator Richard Lugar, senior advisor to President Ronald Reagan and Director of the Office of Management and Budget under President George W. Bush.  He also was the CEO of the Hudson Institute, a major contract research organization.  During an 11-year career at Eli Lilly and Company, he held a number of top executive posts including president of Eli Lilly’s North American pharmaceutical operations.   Daniels earned a bachelor's degree from Princeton’s Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs and a law degree from Georgetown.  He is the author of three books and a contributing columnist in the Washington Post.  He and his wife Cheri have four daughters and seven grandchildren.  

One of the strangest political developments over the past several decades has been the devolution of the Religious Right and large swaths of politically active Evangelicals as they morphed from character counts moralists of the 1990s to MAGA Trumplicans.  Regardless of the merits of where the Religious Right stands today, one could be forgiven for being perplexed at how they arrived here at all.   Joining Saving Elephants host Josh Lewis is JB Shreve, creator of The End of History podcast and blog, to demystify the Religious Right’s conversion to the Church of Trump.  Both JB and Josh were raised in the cultural milieu of Evangelical conservatism and have an insider’s perspective on what went so wrong on the Religious Right.   About JB Shreve JB Shreve spent his life in the highlands of western Arkansas, where he and his wife Casie raised their three children.  JB worked in international ministry between 1998 and 2008 in various roles with organizations such as Bill Glass Prison Ministries, Christian Motorcyclists Association, and Open Doors with Brother Andrew.   After securing his degrees in International Relations and Middle East Studies at the Fulbright College and King Fahd Center for Middle East Studies at the University of Arkansas, JB went to work in the corporate business sector.   In 2005, JB and his family moved to northwest Arkansas, where they joined a team to build a new church Transformation Center.  JB continues in an active leadership role at Transformation Center.   JB hosts two podcasts and blogs. JB Shreve & Faithful Considerations includes devotionals and bible studies, while JB Shreve & the End of History looks at our generation's current events, history, and socio-political issues.  JB has written two books: How the World Ends: Understanding the Growing Chaos published in 2019 and his latest book Politically Incorrect: Real Faith in an Era of Unreal Politics.