Do phishing tests do more harm than good? & Speed, Flexibility, and AI - Wolfgang Goerlich, Whitney Young - ESW #376

A month ago, my friend Wolfgang Goerlich posted a hot take on LinkedIn that is less and less of a hot take these days. He posted, "our industry needs to kill the phish test",and I knew we needed to have a chat, ideally captured here on the podcast. I've been on the fence when it comes to phishing simulation, partly because I used to phish people as a penetration tester. It always succeeded, and always would succeed, as long as it's part of someone's job to open emails and read them. Did that make phishing simulation a Sisyphean task? Was there any value in making some of the employees more 'phishing resistant'? And who is in charge of these simulations? Who looks at a fake end-of-quarter bonus email and says, "yeah, that's cool, send that out." Segment Resources: Phishing in Organizations: Findings from a Large-Scale and Long-Term Study The GoDaddy Phishing Awareness Test The Chicago Tribune - How a Phishing Awareness Test Went Very Wrong University of California Santa Cruz - This uni thought it would be a good idea to do a phishing test with a fake Ebola scare In this episode, we explore some compelling reasons for transitioning from traditional SOAR tools to next-generation SOAR platforms. Discover how workflow automation and orchestration offers unparalleled speed and flexibility, allowing organizations to stay ahead of evolving security threats. We also delve into how advancements in AI are driving this shift, making new platforms more adaptable and responsive to current market demands. Segment Resources: Learn more about using Tines for Security Peruse the Tines library of 'Stories' built by Tines partners and customers Learn how to integrate AI tooling into Tines stories and workflows This segment is sponsored by Tines. Visit https://securityweekly.com/tines to learn more about them! This week, the cybersecurity industry's most basic assumptions under scrutiny. Following up our conversation with Wolfgang Goerlich, where he questions the value of phishing simulations, we discuss essays that call into question: the maturity of the industry the supposed "talent gap" with millions of open jobs despite complaints that this industry is difficult to break into cybersecurity's 'delusion' problem Also some whoopsies: researchers accidentally take over a TLD When nearly all your customers make the same insecure configuration mistakes, maybe it's not all their fault, ServiceNow finds out Fortinet has a breach, but is it really accurate to call it that? Some Coalfire pentesters that were arrested in Iowa 5 years ago share some unheard details about the event, and how it is still impacting their lives on a daily basis five years later. The news this week isn't all negative though! We discuss an insightful essay on detection engineering for managers from Ryan McGeehan is a must read for secops managers. Finally, we discuss a fun and excellent writeup on what happens when you ignore the integrity of your data at the beginning of a 20 year research project that resulted in several bestselling books and a Netflix series! Visit https://www.securityweekly.com/esw for all the latest episodes! Show Notes: https://securityweekly.com/esw-376

Apple drops a lawsuit to avoid exposing secrets, what does it mean for the security industry if MS locks down the kernel?, exploding pagers, more things from the past: Adobe Flash exploits, robots get rid of your data, PKFail is still a thing, Android TV malware is back: now with conspiracy theories, DMA attacks, gamers are not nation-state attackers, the story of a .MOBI Whois server, a better bettercap, and when not to trust video baby monitors. Gain insights into the CISA KEV straight from one of the folks at CISA, Tod Beardsley, in this episode of Below the Surface. Learn how KEV was created, where the data comes from, and how you should use it in your environment. This segment is sponsored by Eclypsium. Visit https://securityweekly.com/eclypsium to learn more about them! Visit https://www.securityweekly.com/psw for all the latest episodes! Show Notes: https://securityweekly.com/psw-843

When a conference positioned as a day of security for developers has to be canceled due to lack of interest from developers, it's important to understand why there was so little interest and why appsec should reconsider its approach to awareness. Dustin Lehr discusses how appsec can better engage and better deliver security concepts in a way that makes developers not only feel like their time is well used, but that the content appeals to them. Segment Resources: - The Security Champion Program Success Guide -- A free guide that includes all steps necessary to build a successful security champion program, with real-world recommendations and examples: https://securitychampionsuccessguide.org/ - Let's Talk Software Security -- A free global virtual community where we host monthly open discussions on appsec topics: https://www.meetup.com/lets-talk-software-security/ In the news, a takeover of the MOBI TLD for $20, configuring an LLM for a CTF, firmware flaw in an SSD, Microsoft talks kernel resilience, six truths of cyber risk quantification, and more! Visit https://www.securityweekly.com/asw for all the latest episodes! Show Notes: https://securityweekly.com/asw-299

Back to the office serfs, Void Banshee, ServiceNow, Taiwan, Dlink, C++, Aaran Leyland, and more on this Edition of the Security Weekly News. Visit https://www.securityweekly.com/swn for all the latest episodes! Show Notes: https://securityweekly.com/swn-414

Cybersecurity is complex. We have threats, vulnerabilities, incidents, controls, risks, etc. But how do they all connect together to drive a cyber risk program? As an industry, we've struggled for 20+ years trying to boil this ocean. Maybe we've been going about it the wrong way. Padraic O'Reilly, Founder and Chief Innovation Officer at CyberSaint, joins Business Security Weekly to discuss how AI can help us solve the cybersecurity data problem. Starting with simple mappings from risks to controls, CyberSaint is flipping the cyber risk management problem on it's head. Instead of working from the bottom up, CyberSaint is tackling the problem from the top down. Padraic will discuss how CyberSaint is using AI, practical AI, to address the complexities of cybersecurity data, including: the use of Watsonx to generate their new KnightVision report how to use graphical node networks to model cybersecurity data the future of AI models to prioritize recommendations from all the data This segment is sponsored by CyberSaint . Visit https://securityweekly.com/cybersaint to learn more about them! In the leadership and communications segment, Why Companies Should Consolidate Tech Roles in the C-Suite, End of an era: Security budget growth slows down, Global cybersecurity workforce growth flatlines, stalling at 5.5M pros, and more! Visit https://www.securityweekly.com/bsw for all the latest episodes! Show Notes: https://securityweekly.com/bsw-364

Through the Fire and Li-On Flames, Lazarus, Whatsup, Scattered Spider, Hadooken, Dead People, Aaran Leyland, and More on the Security Weekly News. Visit https://www.securityweekly.com/swn for all the latest episodes! Show Notes: https://securityweekly.com/swn-413

This week, in the enterprise security news, Cribl, Zafran, and US states raise funding Cisco, Check Point, Salesforce, and Absolute Software acquire cybersecurity startups AI Security products are picking up steam You probably shouldn’t be too worried about Yubikey cloning Instead, you should be more worried about malicious npm packages! The White House wants to fix BGP SolarWinds has shady stuff in its source code, AGAIN The challenge of bringing security to small business Scams are getting quicker and more effective how not to run a phishing test and AI assistants rickroll paying customers! We are a month away from Oktane -- the biggest identity event of the year. Okta is bringing thousands of identity industry thought leaders, IT and security executives, and other tech leaders together on October 15-17 to discuss the changing landscape for security and identity, how organizations are putting identity first, new Okta products, and more. Harish Peri, Senior Vice President of Product Marketing, joins Enterprise Security Weekly to discuss what people should expect from Oktane this year, the conversations that will take place at the event and why it’s important for security professionals to attend/tune in. This segment is sponsored by Oktane. Visit https://securityweekly.com/oktane2024 and use discount code OKTNSC24 to pay only $100 for your full conference pass! Ever wondered what it's like to be responsible for the cybersecurity of a sports team? How about when that sports team is one of the world's most successful Formula One teams? I can't describe how excited we are to share this interview. This interview is basically two huge F1 nerds who happen to also be cybersecurity veterans asking everything they've always wanted to know about what it takes to secure an F1 team. For the folks out there that aren't familiar with this sport, Formula One is arguably the fastest, most watched, and most international automotive racing sport today. In the 2024 season, the racing series will feature ten teams traveling to 24 race tracks located in 21 different countries. Also, did you know that only two countries get more than one race? Italy gets to host two Grand Prix, and the United States gets to host three. A HUGE thanks to Keeper Security and Darren Guccione for making this interview possible. This isn't a sponsored interview, but it was Keeper's PR team that pitched the idea for this interview to us, and as F1 fans, we're super grateful they did! Segment Resources: Keeper Press Release on the Partnership Williams Press Release on the Partnership Some more details from Keeper on why they chose to sponsor automotive racing Visit https://www.securityweekly.com/esw for all the latest episodes! Show Notes: https://securityweekly.com/esw-375

Lee comes on the show to discuss: EU CRA - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyberResilienceAct - its impact on bringing products to market and the challenges of enforcing such laws that require products to be "Secure" Recent legislation on disputes for federal agency fines - Chevron deference rule - supreme court decision, uncertainty, more or less clarity - proven in the first court case? opens to more litigation -https://www.nrdc.org/stories/what-happens-if-supreme-court-ends-chevron-deference Breach disclosure laws - mandatory disclosure rules from the SEC - https://www.sec.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2024-31 Defcon cease and desist - “Copyright Act, the Defend Trade Secret Acts, the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act” - https://securityledger.com/2024/08/a-digital-lock-maker-tried-to-squash-a-def-con-talk-it-happened-anyway-heres-why/ Don't tell the FCC there is a new Flipper firmware release, unpatchable?, argv[0] and sneaking past defenses, protect your registries, someone solved my UART RX problem, PKFail update, legal threats against security researchers documented, EDR bypass whack-a-mole continues, emulating PIs, VScode moonlights as a spy, Want to clone a YubiKey? All you need is $11,000, some fancy gear, and awkwardly close proximity to your victim, and Telegram’s encryption: it’s kinda like putting a 'Keep Out' sign but leaving the door unlocked. Visit https://www.securityweekly.com/psw for all the latest episodes! Show Notes: https://securityweekly.com/psw-842

AI Trucks, Solid Concrete, Sonicwall, Progress, Rust, Apple, and more, on this Edition of the Security Weekly News. Visit https://www.securityweekly.com/swn for all the latest episodes! Show Notes: https://securityweekly.com/swn-412

Considerations in paying down tech debt, make Rust work on bare metal, ECDSA side-channel in Yubikeys, trade-offs in deploying SSO quickly, and more! Visit https://www.securityweekly.com/asw for all the latest episodes! Show Notes: https://securityweekly.com/asw-298