Why Independent Agencies Are Having a Renaissance – with CMO Kristina Canada

Episode description In this episode of Next in Media, Mike Shields sits down with Kristina Canada, CMO at Net Conversion, a 19-year-old independent marketing and analytics agency based in Orlando that's in the middle of a serious growth push — with a new Chicago office, a recent acquisition of CTV specialists Elevate the Outcome, and a philosophy rooted in measurable business outcomes over vanity metrics. Kristina and Mike dig into why independent agencies are experiencing a renaissance right now as clients seek out agility and transparency. They unpack Net Conversion's approach to making CTV a true performance channel without losing the brand-building benefits, and get into the agency's pragmatic but skeptical stance on AI — from arguing with Google reps about Performance Max to building their own internal chatbot and copilot tools for analysts. Key Highlights 🏢 The Independent Agency Renaissance: Clients are gravitating toward independents for agility, transparency, and freedom from holdco conflicts of interest. 📺 CTV as a Performance Channel: Net Conversion splits CTV into demand capture and demand creation, applying measurement rigor without forcing direct-response KPIs on brand-building. 🤖 AI as Co-Pilot, Not Pilot: The agency's internal mantra is "everyone gets an intern" — they've built their own chatbot but remain vocal skeptics of handing everything to PMAX. 🔍 AI Search Is Merging Paid and Organic: Kristina advises shifting from keyword matching to intent matching, and shares early learnings from piloting ads inside ChatGPT. 🤝 Against Principal-Based Buying: When agencies pre-buy media, incentives shift away from the client — Net Conversion keeps its model firmly aligned with client outcomes. 📈 Undervalued Platforms: Reddit and YouTube are two channels Kristina says deserve more attention from performance-minded advertisers. Resources & Next Steps 🔗 Kristina Canada on LinkedIn 🌐 Net Conversion 🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts and Spotify Chapter Timestamps 00:00  Cold open 01:51  Introducing Kristina Canada and Net Conversion 04:23  The Elevate the Outcome acquisition and CTV/OTT push 06:03  Why independent agencies are having a "renaissance"  08:00  Making CTV a performance channel without losing brand value 10:23  Sponsor break: Reaching the right audiences on streaming TV 11:21  Being a healthy skeptic of PMAX and Advantage+ 13:19  AI adoption in staff workflows and training 16:00  OpenAI's advertising push and AI-powered search 18:18  The problem with principal-based media buying 19:37  Why YouTube and Reddit are still undervalued 21:02  Wrap up

In this episode of Next in Media, Mike Shields sits down with Andrew Yaffe, CEO of Dude Perfect, to talk about how the iconic trick-shot brand has evolved into one of the most diversified properties in digital media. Eighteen months into the role after a long run at the NBA, Andrew walks through Dude Perfect's three-part strategy of content, products, and experiences — including a 22-city summer tour, middle-grade novel series, new outdoors channel, and experiential concepts. Mike and Andrew dig into why Dude Perfect now looks more like a sports league than a creator business, what made their Xfinity co-created ad the best-performing spot on YouTube, and why reaching the family unit has become one of the most valuable propositions in fragmented media. They also cover YouTube's role in the upfront, the long-form content shift, the wishlist for better cross-platform measurement, and Andrew's reluctant NBA Finals pick. Key Highlights 🏗️ Tripling Headcount in 18 Months: Andrew has scaled Dude Perfect from a small content team into a much larger operation spanning production, commercial, and product. 🎯 Three Buckets — Content, Products, Experiences: Dude Perfect's strategy spans far beyond YouTube, including a live tour, board games, sporting goods, and a novel series. 📺 A Media Business, Not a Creator Business: Andrew argues Dude Perfect's partnership model with brands like BODYARMOR looks more like a sports sponsorship than a one-off creator deal. 🤝 The Xfinity Co-Creation Playbook: Andrew breaks down how Dude Perfect, YouTube, and Xfinity built one of the platform's standout ads of the past year, earning C-level accolades. 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 The Family Audience Is the Moat: Reaching kids and parents simultaneously is a near-extinct value proposition in fragmented media — and Dude Perfect owns it. 📱 As Big as the NBA on TikTok: Dude Perfect's TikTok following rivals the NBA's, and their multi-platform strategy reaches different audiences with different content than YouTube. ⏱️ Longer Content Is Working: Watch time and retention now drive the strategy, leading to 40-minute videos and a new variety show being built like a network TV asset. 🎬 Format and Talent IP Is the Real Unlock: New talent and ownable formats like Squad Games and All Sports Golf are how Dude Perfect extends the franchise beyond the original five. 🎢 Trick Shot Town, Not a Theme Park (Yet): Andrew clarifies Dude Perfect’s experiential roadmap — what's actually being built in Austin, and the bigger vision for their own family entertainment concept.  Resources & Next Steps 🌐 Dude Perfect on YouTube  🔗 Follow Andrew Yaffe on LinkedIn  🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts Chapter Timestamps 00:00  Cold open 00:49  Introducing Andrew Yaffe and Dude Perfect 02:05  Summer tour, Squad Games, and new channels 03:55  The three buckets: content, products, experiences 07:00  Why Dude Perfect looks like a media (not creator) business 08:30  Reaching the family audience in our fragmented era 09:30  BODYARMOR partnership and shifting share from Gatorade 10:42  Sponsor break: Elevate YouTube advertising with Cadent VuePlanner  11:22  Making YouTube’s top performing ad, with Xfinity and Google 13:01 Multi-platform strategy — TikTok, Instagram, CTV 15:38  Building out the talent roster and owning formats 17:21 Trick Shot Town and the family entertainment concept 18:38  The marketing wishlist: better cross-platform measurement 20:14  NBA Finals pick & wrap up

In this episode of Next in Media, I sit down with Emily Ketchen, SVP & CMO of Intelligent Devices Group & International Markets at Lenovo, to talk about what it actually looks like to operationalize AI inside a global marketing organization. Emily shares how Lenovo is standing up the AI PC and AI phone category, why contextual and generative AI drove efficiency gains in the brand's Formula One partnership, and what it means to be "the first generation of leaders tasked with managing an agentic workforce." Emily walks through Lenovo's AI governance council, the grassroots prompt library her team built, and tangible and intangible measurement frameworks behind big sponsorships. We also dig into Lenovo's Creator Odyssey campaign — a Sundance-recognized global collaboration — and close on the tension every marketer is navigating right now: how to use AI-driven media optimization without giving up control, transparency, or human judgment. KEY HIGHLIGHTS: 🧭 Three Fronts for AI in Marketing: Emily frames Lenovo's AI work across category creation, internal upskilling, and marketing applications — with governance at the center. 🏎️ AI in the Most Precious Media: Rather than starting with low-stakes creative variants, Lenovo deployed contextual and generative AI in its Formula One sponsorship to sharpen targeting and creative impact. 🤖 The First Generation Managing an Agentic Workforce: Emily reflects on leading teams that now include agents alongside humans — a workforce that doesn't sleep, doesn't eat, and isn't looking for a raise. 📚 Grassroots Prompt Library: After Lenovo's governance council rolled out AI training, two employees built an internal prompt library that's now a go-to resource for the whole marketing org. 🎨 The Creator Odyssey: For the Yoga line, Lenovo built a global creator chain where digital artists around the world built on each other's work — a process-first campaign that picked up a Sundance brand storytelling award. ⚖️ Personal, Useful, Human: Emily's framework for talking about AI with wary consumers and creators: lead with what it feels like in everyday life, not what it is. 🛡️ Not All Agents, No People, No Agencies: On AI-driven media optimization, Emily argues the black-box version isn't the answer — experimentation has to come with guardrails and human judgment. RESOURCES & NEXT STEPS: 🌐 Learn more about Lenovo: Lenovo.com 🔗 Follow Emily Ketchen on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/emilyketchen 🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube CHAPTER TIME STAMPS: 00:00   Cold open — Where Lenovo sits on the AI adoption curve 01:34   Introducing Emily Ketchen and Lenovo's AI mandate 03:56   Betting on Formula One with contextual + GenAI creative 05:52   Human judgement and Lenovo's AI governance council 07:33   Ecosystem marketing & AI category creation 10:11   The first generation managing an agentic workforce 13:50:  Sponsor break: Reaching the right audiences on CTV 14:47   Measuring big sponsorships in a performance era 18:02  Creator strategy, Yoga product line, Sundance accolades 21:05   Talking to creators and consumers who are wary of AI 22:39   AI-driven media optimization without the black box 00:00   Wrap up and thanks

In this episode of Next in Media, I sit down with Michael Wolf, CEO and Founder of Activate Consulting, to break down the findings from the firm’s 11th annual Technology and Media Outlook. Michael walks us through Activate's "Attention Clock" and how multitasking stretches the average American's day well past 24 hours, leaving brands to fight for partial attention while still paying like they're getting all of it. We also get into the state of television. Michael explains why TV is more fragmented than Madison Avenue admits, why YouTube still doesn't get full credit despite dominating CTV, and what the Paramount-Warner deal actually changes. From there, we turn to predictions: Michael makes the case for virtual product placement as the next frontier in creator and in-game ads, and explains how sports gambling is changing live sports. He closes with his biggest sleeper story of 2026: spatial computing and the data layer that will power it. Key Highlights: ⏰ The Attention Clock Hits 32 Hours a Day: Activate's research shows multitasking is pushing daily media consumption past the limits of a 24-hour day, leaving advertisers fighting for partial attention. 📺 TV Is More Fragmented Than Anyone Admits: Even the biggest TV players hold surprisingly small slices of total viewership, and a merged Paramount-Warner barely moves the needle. 🎬 Why YouTube Still Isn't "TV" to Madison Avenue: YouTube dominates CTV but lacks the big simultaneous tentpole events that brand advertisers use to reach huge audiences at once. 🛒 The Shopping Journey No Longer Starts at Google: For younger consumers, product discovery now begins directly at Amazon, Target, and Walmart — reshaping how brands think about the funnel. 🎮 Virtual Product Placement Is the Next Ad Frontier: Michael argues the future of in-game and in-content ads is authentic integration powered by AI, not interruption. 🎰 Sports Gambling Is Quietly Saving Long-Form Sports: In-game betting and prop bets are driving Gen Z viewers to watch entire games front to back. 👓 Spatial Computing Is the Most Underrated Story of 2026: Nearly every major tech company is betting on AI glasses and spatial devices, but the real battleground will be the visual data layer in the cloud.   Resources & Next Steps: 💡 Download the full Tech & Media Outlook at activate.com 🔗 Follow Michael J. Wolf on LinkedIn 🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts   Chapter Time Stamps: 00:00 Cold open – Why YouTube is winning on every screen 1:29 Introducing Michael Wolf, CEO & Founder of Activate Consulting 2:31 Activate's Attention Clock: 11 years of measuring multitasking  4:35 How fragmented is TV viewership, really?  6:33 How YouTube quietly took over social and CTV 7:46 Why video is eating the internet 8:54 Why Madison Avenue still hesitates to treat YouTube like TV 12:05 Sponsor break: Why the household graph is a differentiator 13:24 What the Paramount-Warner deal actually changes 14:45 Why CTV still isn't built for small brands  15:54 AI, personalization, and the future of video creative  16:22 The bottleneck holding back creator marketing  18:01 How can video games finally get advertising right? 19:19 Live sports, Gen Z, and the gambling effect 20:54 Michael's biggest sleeper call for 2026  24:17 Wrap up and thanks

Explore how the "cookie apocalypse" evolved into a hyper-fragmented identity landscape where iPhone users, cookieless browsers, and diverse CTV signals have created massive monetization gaps for the unprepared.  I sit down with Intent IQ’s Fabrice Beer-Gabel to reveal why the future of programmatic advertising isn't a choice between deterministic or probabilistic data, but a high-stakes race to balance scale with the 99% accuracy required to prevent AI from amplifying inaccuracies at scale. Episode Takeaways: 🌐 The "Cookie Apocalypse" didn't disappear; it simply evolved into a hyper-fragmented landscape of "idealist" environments across 150 million iPhone users and 70 million cookieless desktop browsers. ⚖️ True identity accuracy isn't a binary choice between deterministic and probabilistic methods but a strategic effort to strike the perfect balance between massive scale and reliable user recognition. 🌍 Global compliance requires a nuanced, jurisdiction-specific approach because adopting a single "strictest" standard unnecessarily limits reach and creates a massive competitive disadvantage. 🌉 Bridging the gap between proprietary "data spines" and "biddable identifiers" is the only way to actually translate deep audience insights into real-world programmatic transactions. 🤖 AI acts as a powerful force multiplier for identity resolution, but it poses a systemic risk by amplifying bad data into "inaccuracy at scale" if the initial training sets are flawed. 🕷️ Publishers face a sustainability crisis as non-monetizable crawler traffic now outweighs human visitors by a staggering 200-to-1 ratio. 📈 Mastering identity resolution delivers a massive ROI punch, with the potential to double advertiser reach and lift publisher ad revenue by as much as 60%.Time Stamps: 00:00 Introduction to Identity Resolution Challenges and Intent IQ Overview  1:53 The Fragmented Identity Landscape and Signal Constraints  4:06 Deterministic vs Probabilistic Identity Debate  5:33 Mobile Identity Evolution and Cross-Platform Similarities  7:25 Regulatory Complexity and Compliance Strategies  9:36 Intent IQ's Business Model and Client Examples  12:45 Walled Gardens vs Open Ecosystem Competition  15:00 AI's Impact on Identity Resolution and Industry Transformation  17:54 Agentic AI and Content Protection Concerns  19:38 Identity Accuracy Crisis and AI Amplification Risks  21:45 ROI Impact and Business Outcomes  22:50 Strategic Advice for Brands in a Changing Landscape

In this episode of Next in Media, I sit down with Mike Law, CEO of Carat North America, to talk about one of the biggest tensions in modern media: the push for more targeted TV advertising versus the risk of going too narrow and losing brand growth. Mike and I discuss how brands have at times gotten too addressable, siloing themselves into repeat customers while forgetting to grow the top of the funnel. We dig into the fragmentation challenge across streaming, CTV, and social video, and why defining your audience has never been harder with a million data sets and walled gardens competing for attention. We also get into how YouTube is becoming more like TV every day, the evolving role of creators in upfront conversations, and whether creator media belongs in the same budget bucket as a big show on CBS. Mike shares how Carat is using AI agents to run multiple media plan scenarios in minutes instead of hours, and we explore what the next generation of media planners (AI native, digital native) will bring to the industry. We wrap up talking about measurement, why the industry needs to come together to solve identity and addressability, and what Go Addressable is doing to advance deterministic audience-based advertising at scale. __________________________________________________ Key Highlights   📺 CTV Targeting vs. Brand Growth: Mike argues that brands have sometimes gotten too addressable, squeezing existing customers dry before realizing they need to find new audiences to grow the business. 🔀 Fragmentation Is the Core Challenge: With a million data sets, walled gardens, and consumers bouncing between streaming, search, and LLMs in seconds, the media planning landscape is what Mike calls a "bowl of spaghetti." 📱 YouTube as TV Replacement: Mike sees YouTube becoming more like television every day, but its dual identity as both a TV replacement and a social video performance platform makes it tricky to plan against. 🎥 Creators in the Upfront: Long-form, episodic creators are increasingly part of upfront conversations, but the question remains whether they belong in the TV budget or require their own planning approach. 🤖 AI Agents for Media Planning: Carat is using AI agents to generate eight to ten versions of a media plan at once, letting planners compare trade-offs and craft strategy faster than ever. 📊 The Measurement Gap: Cross-platform measurement remains fragmented, and Mike believes the industry needs to come together to solve identity and comparability across CTV, linear, and digital. 🌐 Go Addressable and Industry Collaboration: The episode is part of a special series with Go Addressable, the trade organization working to advance deterministic audience-based advertising across the full TV ecosystem. __________________________________________________ Resources & Next Steps   🌐 Learn more about Go Addressable at GoAddressable.com 🔗 Follow Mike Law on LinkedIn 🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts __________________________________________________ Timestamps   00:00 Cold open: the state of TV targeting and brand growth 01:07 Introducing Mike Law, CEO of Carat North America 01:43 Where we are with CTV targeting today 03:25 When brands get too addressable and forget reach 05:00 The cycle of squeezing audiences and finding new ones 06:50 Fragmentation, walled gardens, and identity challenges 08:50 How identity resolution tools are evolving 10:15 YouTube as a TV replacement and where it fits 12:53 YouTube in the upfront: TV bucket or something else? 14:47 Creators in upfront conversations and long-form episodic content 17:30 The premium creator economy and brand integrations 19:30 AI in media planning: what is changing day to day 22:00 AI agents running multiple plan scenarios at Carat 23:13 The next generation of media planners (AI and digital native) 25:30 Measurement challenges across platforms 27:30 Industry collaboration and lessons learned 28:42 Wrap up and Go Addressable sponsor message

In this episode of Next in Media, I sit down with Ryan Detert, CEO of Influential, the creator marketing company that was acquired by Publicis in 2024. Since the acquisition, Influential has seen massive growth, also acquiring Captiv8 to build out a global offering combining technology, services, and measurement all in one place. Ryan and I dig into how brands are structuring their creator teams, why a center of excellence led by media is where the most success is happening, and how technology (especially brand safety tools) has become the non negotiable foundation for scaling influencer campaigns. We also cover the measurement question that every marketer is asking: can you prove creator ROI? Ryan walks us through how MMMs are finally capturing creator value, why always on strategies beat tentpole campaigns, and how platforms like YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram are each fighting for attention in different ways. We get into the AI question too, from "slop" concerns to the future of creator likeness licensing and NIL rights. Ryan makes the case that AI will transform the back end of the business (speed, sourcing, brand safety) long before it replaces human creators in the feed. Plus, Ryan shares why the greatest ROI often comes from 100 micro creators rather than one mega deal. __________________________________________________ Key Highlights   🚀 Influential's Post Acquisition Growth: Since being acquired by Publicis in 2024, Influential has seen "massive multiples" of growth and also acquired Captiv8 to consolidate technology, measurement, and services into one global platform. 🛡️ Brand Safety as the Foundation: Ryan calls it the "Hippocratic Oath" of influencer marketing. With 15 million plus creators in their database, technology is essential for vetting creators across profanity, nudity, hate speech, and reputational risk before any campaign launches. 📊 Proving Creator ROI Through MMMs: Influencer marketing is a $35 billion TAM because it works. Ryan explains how media mix models are finally capturing creator value, and why brands need to break down creator spend by platform, paid vs. organic, and on vs. off social to get accurate measurement. 📺 The Platform Attention Wars: YouTube dominates long form because it pays creators the most. TikTok owns the meteoric rise. Instagram is aspirational. Meta is a messaging platform. Every platform has both a live strategy and a TV strategy, and all are competing for the same attention. 🤖 AI and Creator Content Transparency: AI is "not a dirty word" as long as it augments a real human. Ryan believes brands will embrace AI generated creator content only when NIL licensing ensures creators are compensated and consumers don't feel duped. 🎯 Micro Creators vs. Mega Deals: For brands with a $2 million budget, 100 targeted micro creators often outperform a single mega creator deal. Ryan compares it to buying one Super Bowl ad vs. going deep across cable networks. 🔄 Always On Beats Tentpole Campaigns: Brands that only activate around the Super Bowl, summer, and holidays are letting competitors eat their lunch in between. Long term creator partnerships drive both efficiency and authenticity. __________________________________________________ Resources & Next Steps 🌐 Learn more about Influential 🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts __________________________________________________ Timestamps   00:00 Cold open on creator marketing growth and AI 01:13 Meet Ryan Detert, CEO of Influential 02:07 Life after the Publicis acquisition 04:04 Where creator teams fit inside brand organizations 06:04 Technology's role in scaling influencer marketing 07:00 Brand safety as the non negotiable first step 08:52 Managing creator campaigns at scale 09:44 Proving creator ROI through measurement and MMMs 12:43 YouTube on TV and the platform attention wars 16:11 Micro vs. macro creators and where the real ROI lives 18:22 AI transparency and the slop problem 20:46 Creator likeness, NIL, and AI generated content 23:05 Episodic content and always on brand partnerships 25:04 The future of creator marketing in three to five years

In this episode of Next in Media, I sit down with Adam Roodman, General Manager of Yahoo DSP, to talk about how Yahoo has quietly built one of the most compelling demand side platforms in the market. Adam walks through Yahoo's positioning in the ongoing DSP wars, why their identity graph and ConnectID solution give advertisers an edge in a world of increasing signal loss, and how the platform's deep roots in connected TV and live sports are creating new opportunities for performance marketers. We also get into Yahoo's massive supply path optimization efforts and why having fewer, higher quality paths to inventory is becoming a real differentiator. Adam and I also dig into the rapidly evolving world of agentic AI in advertising and what it actually means today versus the hype. He shares Yahoo's perspective on the protocol debate between A2A and MCP, why data quality and content accuracy are table stakes for AI agents, and how Yahoo is building an "AI librarian" function to ensure agents can operate with the right context. We also explore how CTV inventory has exploded on the platform, why live sports are changing the addressable advertising landscape, and Adam's take on whether AI will truly reduce headcount or just shift how teams operate. __________________________________________________ Key Highlights   🏆 Yahoo DSP in the DSP Wars: Adam explains why Yahoo is committed to the DSP business for the long haul, leveraging their unique combination of owned and operated properties, a massive identity graph, and deep integrations with premium supply. 🔐 Identity as a Competitive Moat: Yahoo's ConnectID and proprietary identity graph give advertisers access to durable, individual-based data across browsers, devices, and CTV, driving better performance in a signal-loss world. 📺 CTV and Live Sports Explosion: The amount of live sports on Yahoo's platform has doubled in nine months, and addressable, biddable premium CTV and audio inventory continues to surge, opening new opportunities for performance marketers. 🤖 Agentic AI and the Protocol Debate: Adam shares Yahoo's view on the A2A vs MCP protocol discussion, emphasizing that agentic AI is not a strategy in itself. It's about how you operate it and ensuring agents have access to accurate, contextual data. 📚 The AI Librarian Function: Yahoo is evolving from a "tech writer" approach to an "AI librarian" model, ensuring that content, documentation, and data fed into AI systems are high quality, accurate, and written with good context. 🔗 Supply Path Optimization at Scale: Yahoo has reduced tens of thousands of supply paths down to focused, high quality routes, improving auction dynamics and giving advertisers cleaner access to premium inventory. ⚡ AI Won't Replace Teams, It Will Reshape Them: Adam argues that AI adoption in advertising is less about replacing people and more about conviction and operational change, predicting that early movers will see compounding advantages. __________________________________________________ Resources & Next Steps   🌐 Learn more about Yahoo DSP and ConnectID 🔗 Follow Adam Roodman on LinkedIn 🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts __________________________________________________ YouTube Chapter Timestamps   00:00 Cold open: identity, CTV, and agentic AI in advertising 01:46 IntentIQ ad: privacy-first identity resolution 02:10 Meet Adam Roodman, GM of Yahoo DSP 03:30 Yahoo's commitment to the DSP business 05:20 ConnectID and Yahoo's identity advantage 07:30 How identity drives better CTV performance 09:45 Live sports doubling on the platform 11:30 Supply path optimization and auction quality 13:40 The DSP wars and competitive positioning 16:00 Agentic AI: what it means today vs the hype 18:30 The A2A vs MCP protocol debate 20:45 Building the AI librarian function at Yahoo 23:00 Data quality as table stakes for AI agents 25:30 Will AI reduce headcount in advertising? 28:00 CTV inventory explosion and addressable audio 30:30 Advice for brands getting started with AI 33:00 Wrap up: Yahoo's Adam Roodman, Sabio, and IntentIQ

In this episode of Next in Media, I sit down with Sam Garfield, Head of Digital Strategy for CMT Data and AI Platforms at Adobe, to explore how Adobe is quietly becoming the backbone of modern marketing. Sam breaks down how Adobe operates across three core layers: the creative layer (Creative Cloud and Firefly AI), the content supply chain layer (Workfront and asset management), and the data and experience layer (customer data platforms and analytics). Together, these tools form what Sam describes as an operating system for marketers -- a full-stack solution that takes a brand from ideation all the way through activation and measurement. We also dig into the rise of creative intelligence and what it means for brands, agencies, and the future of advertising. Sam unpacks Adobe's Winterberry Group research showing a 23% increase in investment in creative intelligence, and explains why creative can no longer be treated as a fixed cost. We cover how generative AI is accelerating asset production at scale, why agencies are leaning into Adobe's platform rather than building from scratch, and how agentic AI is beginning to appear inside existing workflows. Sam also reveals that traffic to brand sites and publishers is down 40% as LLMs reshape discovery, and shares how Adobe's new LLM Optimizer tool is helping brands regain visibility in a generative search world.   Key Highlights 🖥️ Adobe's Marketing Operating System: Sam breaks down how Adobe's three-layer platform -- creative, content supply chain, and data -- functions as an end-to-end OS for brands and agencies. 🤖 Generative AI and the Asset Scale Problem: Sam walks through the math problem facing global brands -- producing assets across formats, languages, and channels -- and why generative AI is the only scalable solution. 📊 Creative Intelligence Is the Next Frontier: Adobe's research with Winterberry Group found a 23% increase in creative intelligence investment -- and Sam explains why understanding why content performs is becoming as systematic as audience targeting. 🏢 Agencies Are Building on Top, Not From Scratch: Major holding companies are integrating Adobe into their proprietary platforms rather than building from scratch -- including a recently expanded WPP partnership. 🔍 LLMs Are Reshaping Brand Discovery: Adobe's research shows traffic to brand sites is down 40% as AI changes how consumers find information. Sam shares how Adobe's new LLM Optimizer helps brands monitor and improve their visibility inside AI-generated results. ⚡ Agentic AI Is Here but Still Early: There is no end-to-end agentic advertising solution yet. Adobe's approach is to embed agentic tools inside existing workflows so teams can get started without overhauling their entire operation. Resources & Next Steps 🌐 Explore Adobe's Marketing and AI Solutions 🔗 Follow Sam Garfield on LinkedIn 🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts   YouTube Chapter Timestamps 00:00 Cold open -- AI's impact on advertising and brand discovery 01:00 Mike introduces Sam Garfield and Adobe's role in ad tech 01:30 Sam's background and Adobe's history in advertising 02:00 Adobe's three-layer marketing platform explained 03:00 The 'operating system for marketers' concept 03:50 Who is Adobe's customer -- brands, agencies, or publishers? 04:20 The expanded WPP and agency partnership announcement 05:10 Where creative AI optimization stands today 05:40 The asset scale math problem facing global brands 06:20 Laying the generative AI foundation for creative 07:10 From production efficiency to intelligent automation 08:00 Precor creative intelligence and variation at scale 08:40 How conservative vs. progressive brands approach AI 09:10 Adobe Firefly and legally obtained training data 09:40 Workflow integration as the real barrier to adoption 10:10 Humans as creatives, AI as the production layer 10:50 How Adobe fits alongside platform-native AI tools 11:30 Why CMOs won't hand over full creative control to platforms 13:30 Adobe's Winterberry Group creative intelligence research 14:00 Creative as a performance driver, not a fixed cost 14:30 The 23% increase in creative intelligence investment 15:00 Where creative intelligence works -- display, social, CTV 15:30 Early findings and the testing and learning phase 16:10 Are creative agencies threatened or empowered by AI? 16:30 How major holding companies are building on Adobe's OS 17:10 Automating rote work to free up strategic creative thinking 18:20 Creative AI and media buying converging 19:00 Data and creative intelligence coming together at Adobe 19:40 The future of always-on marketing vs. campaign flights 20:20 The network operations center vision for marketing 21:00 Agentic AI in advertising -- where things actually stand 21:30 Adobe's approach to building agentic tools inside workflows 22:00 What agentic audience pulling looks like in practice 22:30 The future of media agencies in an algorithmic world 23:10 People doing higher-value strategic work, not less work 23:40 How brands are showing up inside LLMs 24:00 Adobe's research -- traffic to brand sites down 40% 24:30 Introducing the LLM Optimizer tool 25:00 Structuring content for generative engine optimization 25:40 Will search ad budgets shift to LLM visibility strategies? 26:20 The unknown future of advertising inside AI-generated results 27:10 Wrap-up -- the fulfillment of advertising's long-promised future

In this episode of Next in Media, I sit down with Philip Inghelbrecht, Co-Founder and CEO of Tatari, to unpack why one of the most innovative companies in TV advertising has built its entire thesis on a contrarian idea: that programmatic CTV is the wrong tool for most of the television market. Philip walks through how Tatari operates as a full infrastructure holding company, combining a demand-side platform, a supply-side solution called Upstream, and a privacy and identity layer called Vault. From day one, Tatari has argued that unlike display advertising, connected TV is dominated by a small number of premium publishers, and that automating around them rather than through open exchanges is the smarter path forward. Philip breaks down the $30 billion US CTV market, explaining how roughly half flows through programmatic channels and how up to half of that programmatic slice is fraud or low-quality inventory. The premium inventory that actually drives results, including sports, tentpole events, and top-tier streaming placements, lives almost entirely outside programmatic pipes and has historically required massive budgets and manual negotiation to access. That is exactly the gap Upstream was designed to close. By building custom, direct integrations with the five biggest TV publishers, including Disney, Warner Bros., NBCUniversal, and Paramount, Tatari has automated that direct buying process end to end, giving a much broader range of brands access to premium TV inventory without sacrificing pricing control, brand safety, or transparency.   Key Highlights 📡 Programmatic CTV Is Built on the Wrong Foundation: Philip explains why the SSP/DSP model designed for display advertising is a poor fit for connected TV, where 90% of streaming impressions come from the same top 10 publishers and the most valuable inventory never appears in an open exchange. 💰 The $30 Billion Reality Check: Of the roughly $30 billion US CTV market, about $15 billion flows through programmatic. Philip reveals that up to half of that programmatic pool is fraud or low-quality supply, meaning only $7 to $8 billion represents genuinely premium inventory. 🚀 Upstream Brings Automation to Direct TV Deals: Tatari spent nearly two years building one-to-one tech integrations with Disney, Warner Bros., NBCUniversal, and Paramount, enabling fully automated direct buys that preserve the brand safety and pricing control of traditional direct sales while eliminating manual overhead. 📺 Premium TV Is Now Within Reach for More Brands: Upstream shifts TV advertising from a big-budget brand privilege to something accessible to a much broader set of advertisers. Brands that never could have accessed premium placements now have a real path in, and early publisher partners have already seen doubled transaction volume during the test period. 🤖 AI in TV Advertising Has Promise But Real Limits: Philip is measured about AI's near-term impact on TV. He sees immediate wins in automating creative pre-approval and longer-term potential in data-driven yield optimization for publishers, but pushes back on the idea that AI will quickly transform the TV creative production process.   Resources & Next Steps 🔗 Follow Philip Inghelbrecht on LinkedIn 🌐 Explore Tatari 🎧 Subscribe to Next in Media on Apple Podcasts   Chapter Timestamps 00:00 Cold open - the programmatic CTV reality check 01:18 Introducing Philip Inghelbrecht and Tatari 01:58 Tatari's three-product infrastructure stack explained 03:30 Why programmatic does not fit connected TV 05:00 The problem with SSP aggregation in a concentrated market 06:17 How Upstream was born from supply-side tech 07:22 Breaking down the $30 billion CTV market 08:06 Half of programmatic CTV is fraud or low quality 09:44 Building direct integrations with Disney, Warner, NBCU, Paramount 10:17 How automation benefits publishers and speeds up transactions 11:45 Doubling volume with early publisher partners 12:28 Is TV right for SMBs? Philip's honest take 13:47 Where Upstream takes the market next 15:00 Using first-party data to drive higher publisher yield 16:21 Programmatic still has a role, just not the biggest one 17:17 What Dentsu and WPP's open path retreat signals 18:26 Will the walled gardens ever join Upstream? 18:52 What changes for existing Tatari advertisers 20:00 AI and the future of TV advertising 22:11 AI creative tools: impressive but still five days of editing 22:56 AI for creative pre-approval: what works today 24:16 First-party data capture is harder than it looks 25:36 Measurement, look-alike audiences, and machine learning loops 26:13 Closing thought - the biggest TV inventory is not in programmatic