Leading Through Uncertainty: What Crisis Really Reveals | Tom Kolditz & Mariana Khomitska | 737

What separates a leader from someone who just holds a title? This episode goes looking for the answer with two people who've watched that question get answered under real pressure: retired Brigadier General Tom Kolditz, who spent 40 years building leaders at West Point, Yale, and Rice, and Mariana Khomitska, a Ukrainian leadership development expert who has spent the last several years watching leadership get tested in wartime. Their new book, Against the Storm: How True Leaders Prevail When the World Shakes, comes out September 15 — and this conversation gets at the "why" behind it. Mariana makes a distinction that reframes the whole discussion: leadership isn't about the title or the paycheck. It's what happens when someone can't stand aside. She shares a striking example from Ukraine's energy sector, where teams under shelling did "the job for three" — not because they were told to, but because leaders had built enough trust, presence, and transparent communication that people wanted to step up. Tom brings the counterpart to that: you can't build trust in the moment a crisis hits. You have to be putting "money in the bank" every single day, long before you need it. That idea — what he calls the time value of leader development — runs through the whole conversation, along with a candid look at how the book's structure came together: real crisis stories paired with the core leadership techniques Tom has taught for decades. This isn't a book only for executives navigating a market downturn. As Mariana puts it, everyone can find something useful here — for their team, their family, their community. It's a conversation about what authentic leadership actually costs, and why it's worth paying that cost before you're forced to. Three Key Takeaways: • Trust is "money in the bank" — you can't build it in a crisis. Tom Kolditz frames leadership preparation like a financial investment: leaders who build trust and communication habits daily are the ones who have something to draw on when uncertainty hits. • Authentic leadership shows up because it can't stand aside, not because of a title. Mariana Khomitska argues that crisis strips away the trappings of leadership (status, salary, formal authority) and reveals who leads simply because someone has to. • Leadership development compounds like an interaction effect. Tom explains that developing leaders in multiple areas — like communication and decision-making — doesn't just improve each skill in isolation; the skills interact and multiply each other's impact over time. This episode isn't just a conversation about crisis leadership — it's a live example of thought leadership in action, watching two experts take decades of lived experience and turn it into a book that can scale far beyond their own careers.  If you want the playbook behind that process, pick up The Thought Leadership Handbook: How the Experts Elevate Their Big Ideas—and How You Can Too, written by your hosts Bill Sherman and Peter Winick along with publishing expert Naren Aryal. Drawing on more than 700 conversations just like this one, it breaks down the frameworks experts use to move an idea from personal insight to lasting influence.  You can find it on Amazon, Bookshop.org, Amplify or wherever books are sold.

Here's an uncomfortable question: if you replaced "Gen X" with a racial or ethnic label in a hiring conversation, would anyone tolerate it?    Dan Pontefract — leadership and corporate culture strategist, six-time author, and former Chief Learning Officer at SAP and TELUS — thinks the answer says a lot about how casually organizations discriminate by age. In this conversation, Dan traces the arc that led to his sixth book, The Future of Work Is Grey — from a "reverse ageism" encounter as a 26-year-old college administrator to a career-defining moment when, at 51, a longtime speaker bureau dropped him because they were "refreshing the roster." That sting, he admits, forced a reckoning: for two decades as a chief learning officer, he'd poured development dollars into younger employees without ever questioning who got left out. The centerpiece of the episode is Dan's "Rivers, Rocks, and Rubies" framework — a model for career stages that replaces rigid generational labels (Gen Z, Millennial, Boomer) with a fluid, non-linear way of understanding where people are in their working lives, regardless of age. He also cites new polling data on how dramatically less likely companies are to hire older candidates for AI-related roles, despite AI itself being only a few years old. Beyond the book, Dan and Peter dig into the business realities of running a solo thought leadership practice: why Dan resists being boxed into one topic, how he splits revenue across keynotes, workshops, and consulting, and why speaker bureaus often struggle to sell someone who doesn't fit a single, easily marketed lane. This one's for anyone who manages people across generations, anyone building an independent expert career, or anyone who's ever wondered whether the workplace quietly wrote them off too soon.   Three Key Takeaways: • Age bias hides in plain sight in training budgets. Organizations routinely front-load learning and development spend on younger employees while quietly deprioritizing workers past 45 — a pattern Dan admits he ran for years as a CLO without questioning it. • The Rivers, Rocks, and Rubies framework replaces generational labels with career stage. Instead of sorting people by birth year, Dan argues everyone moves through fluid (river), stable (rock), and wisdom (ruby) phases at their own pace — and no phase is superior to another. • A multi-topic thought leadership brand is harder to sell but more sustainable. Dan's refusal to niche down to one keynote topic makes him a tougher pitch for speaker bureaus, but it's let him build a business across consulting, workshops, and keynotes rather than one repeatable speech.   Dan's episode is a case study in exactly what Peter, Bill Sherman, and Naren Aryal explore in The Thought Leadership Handbook: a powerful idea — in this case, that age is an asset organizations are squandering, not a liability to manage around — only creates impact once it's shaped, packaged, and built into a sustainable business. Dan's Rivers, Rocks, and Rubies framework, his refusal to niche down to one keynote topic, and his deliberate choice to run a solo practice rather than scale a firm are all decisions the Handbook helps thought leaders navigate in their own work. If this conversation had you thinking about how to package your own expertise for a crowded market, The Thought Leadership Handbook is the field guide.   Order it today at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Bookshop, or Amplify, or learn more at thoughtleadershiphandbook.com.

What does it actually take to build a coaching methodology that thousands of people rely on? According to Mary Olson-Menzel, Founder and CEO of MVP Executive Development and author of the national bestseller What Lights You Up? Illuminate Your Path and Take the Next Big Step in Your Career, it wasn't a strategic plan. It was fourteen years of watching. This episode traces Mary's career from local TV news reporter through executive recruiting to founding her own coaching practice, one built on pattern recognition rather than a whiteboard plan. Mary describes herself as a kind of "business anthropologist" — someone who spent years sitting inside the career transitions of hundreds of people at MVP, noticing what worked and what didn't, long before she ever called it a methodology. When her husband pointed out she was doing all this work for free, that observation became a business, and eventually, her book. But the conversation with host Peter Winick doesn't stop at origin story. Peter pushes into the weirder mechanics of the thought leadership business: why a book is a strange kind of product, one that can be a commercial failure by publishing standards and still be the single best lead-generation tool a coach ever built. They talk through the tension every author faces between reaching the broadest audience and reaching the audience that pays the most, and why "low ticket to high ticket" isn't really a ladder so much as a portfolio. The most memorable moment might be the one neither of them planned for: a call from a prison reentry program, using What Lights You Up? to help incarcerated women build a path back to meaningful work. It's a reminder that thought leadership, once it leaves your hands, often does things you never designed it to do. If you're building your own methodology, writing a book, or trying to figure out how the pieces of your business are supposed to fit together, this one's worth the listen. Three Key Takeaways: • Methodologies get discovered, not designed. Our guest didn't set out to build a coaching framework — it emerged from years of "business anthropology," watching hundreds of career transitions unfold and noticing the patterns clients couldn't see in themselves. • A book's commercial success and its business value aren't the same metric. A book can sell modestly by publishing standards while still generating a waiting list of high-paying clients — the real ROI shows up in the funnel it builds, not the royalty check. • Thought leadership travels further than you plan for it to. Content built for one audience (in this case, corporate professionals) can end up serving entirely unexpected populations — in this episode's case, a prison reentry program — which is a sign the ideas have real, durable value. If this conversation had you thinking about the difference  between a book that sells and a book that actually builds a business, Peter's own book is the natural next stop. The Thought Leadership Handbook: How the Experts Elevate Their Big Ideas—and How You Can Too, co-written with Bill Sherman and Naren Aryal, draws on more than 700 conversations just like this one to map out exactly what Mary Olson-Menzel described living through: how experts turn hard-won pattern recognition into a repeatable methodology, and how that methodology gets shaped into a book, a platform, and a business. It's the playbook behind the questions Peter was asking in this episode. Pick up The Thought Leadership Handbook at Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, or Amplify Publishing, or learn more at thoughtleadershiphandbook.com.

She was skeptical about writing a book for years. Not because she lacked ideas — because she'd watched too many people write books for their ego rather than for their reader. In this episode, Bill Sherman sits down with Lisa Bodell, CEO of futurethink and bestselling author of Kill the Company and Why Simple Wins, to talk about what actually happens between "I should write a book" and "I finally did." It's not the tidy origin story most authors tell. Lisa walks through the real arc: the excitement of a new idea, the trough of doubt that follows ("Oh my God, this sucks. What am I doing?"), and the slow climb back out. It took a CEO telling her directly — get this into a book — before she finally said yes. Even then, she describes the process as "easy, hard, transformative," all at once. The conversation turns into something bigger than book-writing advice. Bill and Lisa dig into what separates real thought leadership from the noise flooding LinkedIn and social feeds right now. Their shared conviction: an opinion isn't thought leadership. Only lived, tested experience earns you the right to speak — and if you have something of real value, staying silent isn't neutral. Someone else will fill that space, often with ideas that sound smart but have no practical foundation underneath them. They also get honest about imposter syndrome — something Lisa says never fully goes away, even after decades on the world's biggest stages and inside the highest levels of government and Fortune 500 leadership. The fix isn't confidence. It's proof: doing the work long enough that you can defend it when someone pushes back. If you're sitting on an idea you're not sure is "ready," or you're wondering whether the publishing world still rewards vulnerability over polish, this episode will change how you think about the whole process. It's a grounded, generous conversation about what it actually costs — and what it's worth — to put your ideas into the world. Three Key Takeaways: • An opinion is not thought leadership. Lisa draws a hard line: you earn the right to speak on something only after you've actually done the work and understand what people go through — not from reading about it or having a hot take. • Imposter syndrome doesn't disappear with success — you work through it, not around it. Lisa describes years of testing and bulletproofing her ideas before publishing, until she realized the real question wasn't "am I ready?" but "how much more proof do I need before I take the leap?" • Vulnerability has replaced pure authority as the credibility standard. Both Bill and Lisa note that today's most resonant business books admit what didn't work, not just what did — inviting readers in rather than lecturing from on high. Bill knows firsthand what Lisa is describing in this episode — because he lived it. His own book, The Thought Leadership Handbook: How the Experts Elevate Their Big Ideas—and How You Can Too, co-written with Peter Winick and Naren Aryal, grew out of the exact same doubt, discipline, and vulnerability Lisa unpacks here. Drawing on more than 700 conversations from this very podcast, the book turns those lived, tested stories into practical frameworks — including five "thought leadership avatars" — for anyone trying to move from having an idea to actually building influence with it. If Lisa's honesty about imposter syndrome and the messy middle of writing resonated with you, this handbook picks up right where that conversation leaves off, with the tools to get you through it.  Pick up The Thought Leadership Handbook published by Amplify Publishing Group, wherever books are sold — including Amazon and Bookshop.org.

"Personal brand" might be the most cringe-inducing phrase in business vocabulary. Say it out loud to a room of accomplished professionals and watch the shoulders tense — it sounds like self-promotion, follower counts, and algorithm-chasing. Vanessa Errecarte,  Founder of Marketing Simplified, the UC Davis Graduate School of Management lecturer who built one of the nation's only for-credit MBA courses on the subject, thinks the term isn't wrong — it's just been hijacked. Her argument is simple but reframes everything: a personal brand was never about you. It's about intriguing people with what you know. Errecarte walks through how she teaches this to students who assume they need one more degree, one more title, or ten more years of experience before they've "earned" a point of view — and why that assumption is backwards. Disney didn't wait to explain who Walt Disney was before telling the story of a mouse and an idea. Neither should you. The conversation gets tactical fast. Errecarte shares the story of a Master's student — a Division I pitcher with "no experience" — who discovered his own expertise by describing how he coaches Little League kids through overcoming self-consciousness on the mound. The insight wasn't buried in a resume; it just needed the right questions to surface it. That's the throughline of Errecarte's approach: frameworks, not talent alone, are what make thought leadership teachable and repeatable. She and Peter also dig into why hesitancy is a signal worth paying attention to rather than a reason to stay quiet, why a small audience is actually the ideal place to test new ideas, and why AI is compressing the timeline for professionals to move from "great at the skill" to "great at the thought." If you've ever bristled at the phrase "personal brand" but suspected your best ideas were going unheard, this episode offers a genuinely different way to think about it — and a workable starting point for the back half of a career. Three Key Takeaways: • Personal branding is about service, not self-promotion. The most memorable professionals aren't the ones broadcasting their credentials — they're the ones sharing what they know in a way that helps others think more clearly. Reframing "personal brand" as "what value can I offer" removes most of the discomfort people feel about it. • You don't need more experience to have a point of view. Errecarte's framework helps people — from first-year MBA students to seasoned executives — surface expertise they already have but don't recognize as valuable. The right questions, not more credentials, are usually what's missing. • Treat your career like a lab, especially early on. A small audience is a feature, not a limitation — it's where you can test ideas, get honest feedback, and build confidence before the stakes get higher. Waiting for a "finished" idea before sharing anything publicly is a bigger risk than sharing something imperfect. If this conversation got you thinking about how to actually build and scale your own expertise, Peter's new book is the natural next step. The Thought Leadership Handbook, written with co-authors Bill Sherman and Naren Aryal, breaks down exactly what it takes to shape, package, and scale your ideas in a crowded market — the same "framework over talent" thinking Vanessa talked about today, applied to your whole body of work. It's available now at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Bookshop, and Amplify, and you can learn more at thoughtleadershiphandbook.com.

Every founder-led advisory firm knows the feeling: business comes in waves. Referrals and word-of-mouth are lovely — until the pipeline goes quiet for three months and nobody can explain why. In this episode, Mark McIntosh, founder of RevGrow, joins the show to break down why that unpredictability isn't a mystery to solve, it's a system to build. A CPA by training, Mark spent years watching talented advisors get referred business only when it happened to occur to someone else — because their expertise "lived in someone else's memory." His answer was to build a repeatable playbook: get ruthlessly clear on who you help and who refers you, then use LinkedIn and thought leadership to stay visible with that specific group, consistently, over months and years rather than days. The conversation digs into what separates this from the "bullhorn" marketing most people associate with LinkedIn — the cold pitches and connect-and-sell tactics that erode trust instead of building it. Instead, Mark and the host unpack a longer-arc mindset: treating visibility like a compounding asset rather than a 30-day campaign, so that when a prospect's need finally surfaces, you're already the obvious call. There's a sharp, practical discussion of the 80/20 rule as it applies to referral partners — why a handful of relationships typically drive the majority of business, and what it actually takes to earn and keep that position. Mark shares how his own firm operates on this model, including the deceptively simple habits (an immediate thank-you, a follow-up on how an introduction went) that keep referral partners confident enough to keep referring. If you've ever wondered why your best relationships don't reliably turn into business, or you're trying to move your firm off the referral rollercoaster, this episode offers a clear-eyed, commercially grounded way to think about it — plus a live example of someone who, in the host's words, genuinely eats his own dog food.   Three Key Takeaways:   • Referrals are a memory problem, not a trust problem. Good work alone doesn't generate consistent referrals — your referral partners have to be able to instantly connect your name to a specific problem. Without deliberate positioning, even strong relationships stay dormant until something jogs someone's memory. • Visibility is a long-term asset, not a short-term campaign. Marketing campaigns get measured in weeks; staying top of mind with referral partners has to be measured in months or years. Founders who quit after "posting for two weeks and not getting 10 deals" are applying a campaign mindset to a compounding process. • Trust compounds when you're the one who follows up. The advisors who get referred repeatedly aren't the loudest — they're the ones who close the loop: an immediate thank-you, a proactive update on how an introduction went, and genuine care about the referral partner's whole business, not just the transaction in front of them.   This episode's lesson — that thought leadership pays off through consistency, not campaigns — is exactly what Peter, Bill Sherman, and Naren Aryal codify in The Thought Leadership Handbook. If Mark's approach to building lasting visibility resonated, this book gives you the frameworks to do the same with your own expertise. Out now.   Get your copy: • Amazon • Barnes & Noble • Bookshop.org • Amplify Publishing • Apple Books  

"We hated your books." That's what a European competitor once admitted to Ivan Misner — years after trying to build a rival networking organization and watching his own members ask, "How come we don't have books like BNI's?" It's a story that gets at the heart of this conversation: sometimes the most competitive thing you can do is give your best thinking away. Bill Sherman sits down with Dr. Ivan Misner, founder and Chief Visionary Officer of BNI (Business Network International), to explore how a mindset of generosity — not scarcity — fueled BNI's growth into 11,000+ chapters, 355,000+ members, and 41 consecutive years of growth. Misner walks through the origin of his 32 books, why he calls his approach "law of abundance," and why he'd rather teach the world how to network than protect BNI's playbook. The conversation goes deeper than tactics. Misner unpacks his VCP process (visibility, credibility, profitability) as a model for how trust — and thought leadership — actually gets built over time. He talks candidly about being a lifelong introvert who built an empire on relationships, the mindset shift from "hunting" to "farming" in networking, and why he now describes himself as having gone from King Arthur to Colonel Sanders as he handed off day-to-day leadership. There's also real vulnerability here: a childhood report card that said he talked too much in class, an honest reckoning with imposter syndrome, and a tribute to the late Mark Goulston, whose "if you always try, you could eventually win" philosophy still guides how Misner thinks about leadership. Whether you're building a personal brand, leading a team, or wondering whether your story has already been told by someone else, this episode offers a grounded, generous perspective on what it actually takes to build something that outlasts you — and how to stay in your flame while doing it. Three Key Takeaways: • Generosity builds competitive advantage, not just goodwill. Misner's "law of abundance" mindset — publishing 32 books that teach networking skills for free — created more credibility and media access than protecting BNI's methods ever could have. Competitors who withheld their own playbooks couldn't keep pace. • The VCP process explains why most networking fails. Visibility, credibility, and profitability build in sequence — but most people skip straight to asking for business before they've earned trust. Misner calls jumping all three stages "invisibility," and it's the single biggest mistake he sees at networking events. • You can reinvent your role without abandoning your purpose. After 12 years as CEO, Misner shifted to Chief Visionary Officer — going, in his words, "from King Arthur to Colonel Sanders." Staying in your flame over decades sometimes means changing the job, not the mission. This episode is a live case study of the book. The story that opened today's conversation — a rival founder admitting "we hated your books" because Ivan's own members had already read them — comes straight from The Thought Leadership Handbook, which draws on 700+ conversations from this podcast to map how thinkers build lasting influence. If today's episode resonated, The Thought Leadership Handbook by Bill Sherman, Peter Winick, and Naren Aryal gives you the frameworks behind what you just heard — including the five thought leadership avatars that help you figure out which one describes you. Free chapter & quiz: thoughtleadershiphandbook.com Get your copy: • Amazon • Barnes & Noble • Bookshop.org • Amplify Publishing • Apple Books

Here's an uncomfortable truth: most people will tell a total stranger about their weird rash before they'll tell their best friend how much debt they're carrying. That contradiction sits at the center of this episode. The guest is Carrie Joy Grimes, founder and CEO of WorkMoney — a nonprofit she describes as "the AARP for everyday people's money." She built it in 2020 after years as a union organizer, watching thousands of people wrestle with the same financial confusion she'd faced growing up in a household where money was never discussed. The conversation opens with a poker metaphor that ends up doing a lot of work: you play the hand you're dealt, but you can also change the rules of the game. That's WorkMoney's whole thesis — help individuals make the best move with what they have, while using collective bargaining power to get everyone better cards. From there, the discussion turns commercial. A nonprofit still has to think like a business, and Grimes walks through WorkMoney's five distinct revenue models — sales of her book "The Joy of Money", ethical sponsorships, a bill-negotiation product called Money Finder, and a for-profit enterprise arm designed to fund financial products that don't quietly profit off member debt. The host presses on the hardest part: how do you measure success when your mission is "financial security" and revenue isn't the real scoreboard? Grimes lays out three separate metrics her team tracks, including one that's surprisingly emotional. There's also a sharp aside on index investing — including a detail about Warren Buffett's will that reframes the whole "beat the market" industry — and a candid discussion of why WorkMoney deliberately avoids a pure B2C growth strategy. If you've ever wondered how a mission-driven business justifies its business model without losing its mission, this one's worth the full listen. Three Key Takeaways • A nonprofit still needs a real business model. Grimes runs five distinct revenue lines at WorkMoney — including book sales, ethical sponsorships, and a fee-based bill-negotiation service — because donations alone can't fund a movement at scale. • B2B2C beats B2C for mission-driven growth. Rather than acquiring millions of individual customers one at a time, WorkMoney partners with organizations that have already aggregated the audience it wants to serve — dramatically lowering acquisition cost and risk. • Success metrics get complicated when revenue isn't the goal. WorkMoney measures impact through self-reported financial confidence, actual debt/wealth changes, and retirement trajectory — because, as Grimes puts it, if members don't feel more secure, the work isn't landing. If today's conversation had you thinking about what it actually takes to turn a big idea into a sustainable business, you'll want to check out The Thought Leadership Handbook, co-authored by Peter Winick, Bill Sherman, and Naren Aryal. It's the playbook for shaping, packaging, and scaling expertise in a crowded market — exactly the kind of business-model thinking Carrie Joy Grimes brought to this episode. Learn more at thoughtleadershiphandbook.com, and order your copy today on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Bookshop.org, or Amplify.

Book the podcast. Do the interview. Move on to the next one. That's the default playbook for most podcast guests — and according to this week's guest, it's leaving most of the value on the table. Dustin Riechmann, founder and CEO of 7 Figure Leap, and host the the 7 Figure Leap Podcast, has spent the last four years helping coaches, consultants, and agency owners turn podcast guesting into a genuine growth engine — not just a lead-gen tactic. His argument: in a "trust recession" flooded with AI content and social media noise, the real currency isn't reach, it's trust. And trust, done right, scales. Peter and Dustin dig into what that actually looks like in practice. It starts with borrowing trust — the audience a host has spent years building extends some of that credibility to any guest who shows up and delivers. But the bigger opportunity, Dustin argues, is what happens after the mic turns off: the relationship with the host, the access to a guest list full of potential referral partners, and the content that can be repurposed for months. That's where the conversation turns pointed. Peter shares a stat that should make every podcast guest wince: only about 60% of guests actually share their episode after it airs, despite the host doing the legwork to book, produce, and promote it. Dustin calls it a strategic blunder as much as a hygiene issue — because the guests who do the simple things (leave a review, share the episode once, say thank you) become the ones hosts refer business to. The two also unpack the difference between hiring a podcast booking agency to check a box and building a deliberate, relationship-first guesting strategy — and why one podcast a week, done with intention, can outperform a hundred done without it. If you've ever wondered why some guests turn a single appearance into years of referrals while others get nothing out of dozens of interviews, this episode lays out exactly what separates the two. Three Key Takeaways: • Trust is the new currency, and it scales through borrowing. In a noisy, AI-saturated market, audiences no longer take credibility at face value — appearing on a trusted host's platform lets guests borrow that trust instantly, then build their own with the audience over time. • Sharing your episode isn't optional, it's strategic. Roughly 40% of guests never promote the interviews they're given, and that gap is exactly what separates a forgettable guest from the one a host refers to future opportunities. • The real ROI is relational, not transactional. A single interview compounds into referral partnerships, guest-list networks, and repurposable content — but only for guests who treat the host relationship as a two-way investment rather than a 20-minute box to check. Every guest on this show has wrestled with the same question: how do you turn deep expertise into lasting influence, not just a moment of visibility? That question is exactly what The Thought Leadership Handbook answers. Bill Sherman, Peter Winick, and Naren Aryal distilled patterns from more than 700 conversations on this very podcast into practical frameworks for building a body of work that scales — covering everything from your core ideas to the platform that carries them. If you're ready to move from insight to real impact, this is the field guide. Learn more and order your copy at thoughtleadershiphandbook.com.

Why do we size up a rude stranger in seconds and decide they don't belong in our "tribe"? Dr. Benjamin Granger has a term for it: the evolutionary hangover — his phrase for the cognitive biases our brains evolved for savanna survival and never quite retired. As Chief Workplace Psychologist at Qualtrics, Granger spends his days distilling billions of data points on how employees and customers really feel, and in this episode he brings that same lens to his new USA Today bestseller, A Leader Worth Following. The conversation moves from the biological to the deeply practical. Granger traces human speech back only 100,000–200,000 years — a blink in evolutionary time — to explain why we still assume our texts and emails land exactly as intended, and why they so often don't. He and host Peter Winick dig into a favorite (and least favorite) example: the customer satisfaction survey. Whether it's a car dealership coaching you to "circle the five" or a flight attendant joking about the inevitable post-flight survey, Granger shows how well-established science like goal-setting theory gets bent out of shape the moment it collides with real incentive structures. There's also a candid look at what it takes to write a book while holding down a demanding day job — from years of scattered iPhone notes to a publisher's cold outreach that landed within days of deciding to write one. Granger and Winick talk through the tension every corporate thought leader faces: how do you promote your ideas without it feeling like self-promotion? Granger's answer — "I'm selling the message, not myself" — anchors a broader discussion of why academic rigor and real-world readability don't have to be at odds. The episode closes on a personal note: Granger's hope that more leaders will get comfortable with hard conversations with themselves, and a few concrete ways to start — from a two-minute daily reflection borrowed from Marshall Goldsmith to a monthly sit-down with your future self. If you've ever wondered why your best-intentioned message got read the wrong way, or why your company's survey scores don't tell the real story, this one's for you. Three Key Takeaways: • Our brains are running outdated software. Granger's "evolutionary hangover" concept explains why we instantly judge people as "abrasive" or "rude" — a tribal survival instinct that made sense on the savanna but creates friction in modern offices and customer interactions. • Good science can get gamed by bad incentives. Goal-setting is one of the most well-established practices in organizational psychology, but Granger shows how tying compensation to survey scores (like a car dealership's NPS rating) corrupts the very measurement it's supposed to improve. • Selling ideas isn't the same as selling yourself. Granger reframes self-promotion as message-promotion — a mental shift that let him push through years of book marketing discomfort because he believes the underlying research deserves to reach people. Ben isn't the only one turning years of hard-won research into a book built to scale. Bill Sherman, Peter Winick, and Naren Aryal have just released The Thought Leadership Handbook: How the Experts Elevate Their Big Ideas—and How You Can Too — a field guide drawn from more than 700 conversations on this very podcast, mapping out the frameworks and five "thought leadership avatars" that separate an idea stuck in your head from one that actually reaches an audience. If Ben's path from scattered iPhone notes to a USA Today bestseller has you thinking about your own expertise, this is the next book on your list. Get it at thoughtleadershiphandbook.com, or find it on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Bookshop, Apple Books, or Amplify.