Why Marketers Need a Product Mindset | Michael Kaminsky (Recast, Harry’s, Away)

"There’s no magic bullet in marketing—just daily experimentation, measurement, and iteration." In this episode of Growth Talks, Michael Kaminsky, Co-founder of Recast, joins host Krystina Rubino to explore how marketers can rethink the way they measure success. Drawing from his early days at Harry’s, Michael shares how managing a lean media budget sparked his deep dive into media mix modeling and experimentation. He offers insights on how marketers can adopt a product mindset—treating measurement as an iterative process, not a final answer. Learn how ongoing optimization, directional data, and adaptive systems can help brands stretch their budgets, make smarter decisions, and scale effectively across channels. 🗝️ Key Takeaways: Embrace uncertainty. No model is perfect—but that’s not the goal. Structured experimentation brings clarity, reveals customer insights, and drives better decisions over time. Last-click attribution is limiting. It favors bottom-of-funnel tactics and short-term wins, while overlooking the long-term impact of brand-building and upper-funnel influence. Media mix modeling is evolving. Smart marketers are moving beyond slow, outdated models—adopting faster, real-time approaches that align more with consumer behavior. Stop overcomplicating measurement. You don’t need perfect data to move forward. Simple directional signals are often enough to guide strategic, timely decisions. Think like a product team. Continuous optimization and experimentation should be built into every marketing plan to stay agile and drive consistent growth. ⏰ Timestamps 00:10 - Intro to Michael Kaminsky 03:26 - From Harry’s to Recast: Why measurement needed a reset 07:21 - The blind spots of last-click attribution 14:34 - Why traditional media mix models fail modern marketers 18:38 - How brands can balance digital and offline measurement 23:37 - The importance of causal inference in marketing analytics 35:24 - The dangers of over-relying on data without strategic intuition 45:27 - Common mistakes brands make in cross-channel measurement 50:46 - The future of marketing measurement and why agility matters 55:46 - How to build a marketing strategy that adapts and scales   🔗Mentioned in this episode: Recast: https://getrecast.com/ Harry’s: https://www.harrys.com/ Away: https://www.awaytravel.com/ Mockingbird: https://hellomockingbird.com/ Rocket Money: https://www.rocketmoney.com/ 👍Did you enjoy this video? Don’t forget to click the like button! And find more episodes of Growth Talks here: https://bit.ly/3xXGJJc 🤝Connect with Right Side Up Right Side Up is a premium growth marketing agency that has helped more than 1,000+ companies hit their growth goals. Check us out and send us a note at: https://bit.ly/4bfaBQt ‣ Subscribe to our channel: https://bit.ly/3HWiJYD ‣ Subscribe to our marketing newsletter: https://rightsideup.com/resources/growth-marketing-newsletter/ ‣ Follow us on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rightsideup/ ‣ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RightSideUpCo/ ‣ Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/rightsideupco

"Authenticity isn’t just a buzzword—it’s what makes customers believe in your brand." In this episode of Growth Talks by Right Side Up, Shruti Khatod, VP of Growth Marketing at Nutrafol, joins host Krystina Rubino to discuss the power of authentic storytelling in brand growth. Shruti shares how leveraging real customer stories and choosing the right influencer partnerships have helped Nutrafol build a brand that customers trust and love. She breaks down how to align brand KPIs with performance marketing, measure the true impact of retail strategies, and drive long-term revenue success. 🗝️ Key Takeaways: Brand fuels growth. Every channel—TV, social, influencers should reinforce your brand story, not just drive conversions. TV ads take time, but they work. Nutrafol refined their TV strategy over multiple iterations—test, tweak, and secure leadership buy-in for long-term impact. Authenticity isn’t a trend—it’s a trust builder. Real customers, not actors, make the difference. Genuine voices create loyal brand advocates. Diversify your marketing mix. Winning brands blend TV, digital, influencers, and organic marketing to stay agile, scale faster, and meet customers where they are. Go beyond last-click attribution. Successful brands take a full-funnel approach, blending brand KPIs, search trends, and retargeting to track real growth drivers. ⏰ Timestamps 00:10 - Intro to Shruti Khatod 03:26 - How brand and growth work together 07:21 - Connecting brand KPIs to growth marketing  14:34 - Lessons from growing Nutrafol’s TV presence 18:38 - How Meta and TikTok are reshaping performance marketing 23:37 - Why problem-solution messaging resonates 30:55 - Overcoming the limitations of last-click attribution 35:24 - Consumer behavior & growth strategy adjustments  45:27 - Leveraging influencers for long-term brand impact 50:46 - How Nutrafol navigated the TikTok ban scare   🔗 Mentioned in this episode: Nutrafol: https://nutrafol.com/ ThredUp: https://www.thredup.com/ Macy’s: https://www.macys.com/   👍 Did you enjoy this video? Don’t forget to click the like button! And find more episodes of Growth Talks here: https://bit.ly/3xXGJJc 🤝Connect with Right Side Up Right Side Up is a premium growth marketing agency that has helped more than 1,000+ companies hit their growth goals. Check us out and send us a note at: https://bit.ly/4bfaBQt ‣ Subscribe to our channel: https://bit.ly/3HWiJYD ‣ Subscribe to our marketing newsletter: https://rightsideup.com/resources/growth-marketing-newsletter/ ‣ Follow us on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rightsideup/ ‣ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RightSideUpCo/ ‣ Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/rightsideupco

“Sustainable growth isn’t just about hitting numbers—it’s about aligning efficiency with your business strategy and revenue model.” In this episode of Growth Talks by Right Side Up, Ian Yung, former SVP of Revenue at Tonal, joins host Krystina Rubino to share the real levers of sustainable growth. From navigating long purchase cycles to aligning teams for efficiency, Ian breaks down what actually works when scaling a business—without burning through resources. With over 15 years of experience leading growth at Tonal, Parachute, and Touch of Modern, Ian shares real strategies that drive revenue. He offers his perspective on what fuels lasting success, how to choose the right measurement model for your company, the importance of meeting your customer where they are, and how to adapt to a shifting market without losing momentum. 🗝️ Key Takeaways: 📌 Why Smart Founders Play the Long Game Sustainable growth isn’t about chasing short-term wins. Smart companies focus on strategy, efficiency, and fundamentals to build businesses that last. 📌 How to Build a Predictable Revenue Engine Scaling isn’t just about growth—it’s about creating stability. Aligning marketing, operations, and finance helps teams make smarter, more strategic decisions. 📌 Behavioral Triggers Drive High-Intent Sales Customers don’t always buy when you expect. Targeting key life events—like home purchases or relocations—ensures you reach them when they’re ready. 📌 Why ‘Growth at All Costs’ No Longer Works The market has shifted. Profitability, efficiency, and financial discipline aren’t just trends—they’re what separate long-lasting businesses from the rest. ⏰ Timestamps 00:00 Introduction to Ian Yung’s career 02:10 Balancing growth and financial discipline 07:16 Tonal’s game-changing growth strategy 12:06 Creating a predictable revenue engine 19:38 Marketing for long purchase cycles 31:38 Brand vs. performance marketing 40:17 Key factors behind business success 44:10 Why testing drives real results 🔗 Mentioned in this episode: Tonal: https://www.tonal.com/ Parachute: https://www.parachutehome.com/ Touch of Modern: https://www.touchofmodern.com/ Did you enjoy this video? Don’t forget to click the like button! And find more episodes of Growth Talks here: https://bit.ly/3xXGJJc 🤝 Connect with Right Side Up Right Side Up is a premium growth marketing agency that has helped more than 1,000+ companies hit their growth goals. Check us out and send us a note at: https://bit.ly/4bfaBQt ‣ Subscribe to our channel: https://bit.ly/3HWiJYD ‣ Subscribe to our marketing newsletter: https://rightsideup.com/resources/growth-marketing-newsletter/ ‣ Follow us on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rightsideup/ ‣ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RightSideUpCo/ ‣ Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/rightsideupco

“Marketing is the glue that connects teams, strategy, and execution—when done right, it drives the entire business forward.” In this episode of Growth Talks by Right Side Up, Branca Ballot sits down with host Krystina Rubino to break down how she went from mechanical engineer to marketing executive, building and scaling growth teams along the way. Branca shares her approach to structured experimentation, hiring for versatility, and the importance of choosing fewer—but smarter—strategies to maximize impact. She also reveals why team dynamics are critical to success, how to foster cross-functional alignment, and how AI is shaping the future of marketing. 🗝️ Key Takeaways: Focusing on fewer, high-impact initiatives is the key to long-term success rather than spreading resources too thin. A well-structured, versatile marketing team can significantly improve efficiency and execution. Leveraging community engagement and content marketing can be more powerful than relying solely on paid media. AI is a powerful enhancement tool, allowing marketers to optimize workflows and improve personalization while maintaining a human touch. Building a great website lays the foundation for marketing success and supports all other growth efforts. ⏰ Timestamps 00:00 Introduction to Branca Ballot’s career 02:10 From engineering to marketing leadership 06:35 Why focus beats fragmentation in marketing 11:20 The role of community and content in growth 16:50 Paid vs. organic: When to invest in which 21:40 AI’s impact on marketing and business operations 26:15 Building and scaling a lean but powerful team 30:30 Branca’s favorite growth non-hack: A great website   🔗 Mentioned in this episode: Glide: https://www.glideapps.com 👍Did you enjoy this video? Don’t forget to click the like button! And find more episodes of Growth Talks here: https://bit.ly/3xXGJJc 🤝Connect with Right Side Up Right Side Up is a premium growth marketing agency that has helped more than 1,000+ companies hit their growth goals. Check us out and send us a note at: https://bit.ly/4bfaBQt ‣ Subscribe to our channel: https://bit.ly/3HWiJYD ‣ Subscribe to our marketing newsletter: https://rightsideup.com/resources/growth-marketing-newsletter/ ‣ Follow us on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rightsideup/ ‣ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RightSideUpCo/ ‣ Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/rightsideupco

“Lifecycle marketing is integrated marketing focused on the natural use case. It’s about meeting customers where they are.” In this episode of Growth Talks by Right Side Up, Sean Collins joins host Krystina Rubino to share his journey from Army logistics officer to growth marketing leader. Sean discusses the evolution of lifecycle marketing, the importance of tactical patience, and how Bilt Rewards is redefining customer engagement in fintech. Sean dives into lessons on prioritizing trust in fintech, balancing long-term brand-building with immediate direct response, and the power of personalization in creating meaningful customer experiences. 🗝️ Key Takeaways: Lifecycle marketing is more than email. It’s about creating integrated experiences that accelerate use cases. Tactical patience is critical. Avoid knee-jerk decisions; evaluate data at key decision points. Personalization is no longer optional. Be in tune with customers to stay relevant by meeting your audience. Investing in relevance and context improves customer loyalty. Brand affinity matters! Move beyond transactional relationships to create lasting impressions. In fintech, trust is everything—winning over skeptical customers requires strong partnerships and established credibility. ⏰ Timestamps 00:00 Introduction to Sean Collins’ career 02:00 From military logistics to marketing 06:15 Lessons on leadership and tactical patience 10:45 Lifecycle marketing strategies for engagement 16:30 The challenges of marketing in fintech 21:00 Earning customer trust with partnerships 25:50 Balancing brand-building with direct response 30:15 Sean’s favorite growth non-hack: customer insights 🔗 Mentioned in this episode: Bilt Rewards: https://www.biltrewards.com Numbers & Narrative Podcast: https://numbersandnarrative.com 👍Did you enjoy this video? Don’t forget to click the like button! And find more episodes of Growth Talks here: https://bit.ly/3xXGJJc 🤝Connect with Right Side Up Right Side Up is a premium growth marketing agency that has helped more than 1,000+ companies hit their growth goals. Check us out and send us a note at: https://bit.ly/4bfaBQt ‣ Subscribe to our channel: https://bit.ly/3HWiJYD ‣ Subscribe to our marketing newsletter: https://rightsideup.com/resources/growth-marketing-newsletter/ ‣ Follow us on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rightsideup/ ‣ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RightSideUpCo/ ‣ Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/rightsideupco

“Research is key. There’s no hack for deeply understanding your customer’s decision set.” In this episode of Growth Talks by Right Side Up, Julia Steele joins host Krystina Rubino to share her journey from journalism to nonprofit marketing and her passion for creating impactful stories that move people to take action. Julia discusses the challenges and rewards of marketing in the education and nonprofit sectors, emphasizing the importance of cultural competency, customer research, and advocacy in driving growth. Julia also explores how Success Academy works to inspire families and drive enrollment, all while staying true to their mission of providing exceptional education for children of all backgrounds. 🗝️ Key Takeaways: Research and qualitative insights are irreplaceable for understanding customer decisions—get to know your audience deeply.  Marketing must adapt to diverse audiences and meet them where they are, so stay flexible. Advocacy and storytelling go hand in hand. Clear, mission-driven communication fuels awareness and impact. Branding isn’t just for profit. A strong, authentic message resonates in both nonprofit and for-profit sectors. Calls-to-action are critical, so be intentional in your messaging to ensure the audience understands what you’re offering. Highlight your value.  ⏰ Timestamps 00:00 Introduction to Julia Steele’s career 02:12 From journalism to marketing 06:30 Balancing branded content and storytelling 11:45 Navigating the complexities of nonprofit and education marketing 16:20 Success Academy’s dual mission: advocacy and access 21:35 Cultural competence in marketing for NYC’s diverse families 28:10 The power of customer research in driving marketing decisions 35:00 Julia’s favorite growth non-hack: research 🔗 Mentioned in this episode: Success Academy Charter Schools: https://www.successacademies.org/ Ed Institute at The Robertson Center: https://saedincubator.org/ 👍Did you enjoy this video? Don’t forget to click the like button! And find more episodes of Growth Talks here: https://bit.ly/3xXGJJc 🤝Connect with Right Side Up Right Side Up is a premium growth marketing agency that has helped more than 1,000+ companies hit their growth goals. Check us out and send us a note at: https://bit.ly/4bfaBQt ‣ Subscribe to our channel: https://bit.ly/3HWiJYD ‣ Subscribe to our marketing newsletter: https://rightsideup.com/resources/growth-marketing-newsletter/ ‣ Follow us on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rightsideup/ ‣ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RightSideUpCo/ ‣ Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/rightsideupco

“Treat packaging like your entire marketing funnel—it’s a billboard, an ad, and a welcome series.” Shane Pittson, Co-Founder of So and So Venture Studio and former VP of Growth & Marketing (and first employee) at quip, joins Krystina Rubino on Growth Talks to dive into how incremental testing, creative optimization, and customer-centric strategies drove quip’s transformation from a DTC startup to a retail powerhouse. In this episode, Shane discusses the surprising success of early channels like Pinterest and audio, why “creative is the new targeting,” and how treating packaging like an entire marketing funnel helped bridge the gap between retail customers and brand support. He also shares valuable insights for early-stage founders on prioritizing product-market fit and testing smartly to avoid costly mistakes. 🗝️ Key Takeaways: Incremental testing is key. Learn how to explore unconventional channels, like audio advertising, while managing CAC effectively. Scaling into retail? Treat packaging like your entire marketing funnel. Every detail matters. Post-purchase surveys aren’t just for attribution—they’re goldmines for product and marketing innovation. Don’t leave creativity up to AI. Optimizing creative for platform-specific ad formats can unlock new audiences and results. Building trust with platform reps ensures access to beta tools and early adoption of emerging ad formats. ⏰ Timestamps 00:00 Introduction to Shane Pittson’s career 01:32 Scaling quip from startup to retail success 05:22 Testing unconventional channels like Pinterest and audio 10:45 The role of post-purchase surveys in growth marketing 15:32 How to navigate offline marketing challenges 20:12 Why packaging design is critical for retail success 25:18 Balancing creative autonomy and external partnerships 30:08 Shane’s advice for early-stage founders 🔗 Mentioned in this episode: quip: https://www.getquip.com So&So Venture Studio: https://www.soand.so/ 👍Did you enjoy this video? Don’t forget to click the like button! And find more episodes of Growth Talks here: https://bit.ly/3xXGJJc 🤝Connect with Right Side Up Right Side Up is a premium growth marketing agency that has helped more than 1,000+ companies hit their growth goals. Check us out and send us a note at: https://bit.ly/4bfaBQt ‣ Subscribe to our channel: https://bit.ly/3HWiJYD ‣ Subscribe to our marketing newsletter: https://rightsideup.com/resources/growth-marketing-newsletter/ ‣ Follow us on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rightsideup/ ‣ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RightSideUpCo/ ‣ Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/rightsideupco

What did it take to drive growth in 2024? A mix of scrappy execution, data-driven decisions, and a whole lot of emotional intelligence. In this special wrap-up episode of Growth Talks, we’re bringing you some of the best moments from an incredible year of conversations with the sharpest minds in marketing. From uncovering untapped customer insights to mastering the delicate balance between brand and performance, this episode is packed with lessons you’ll want to carry into 2025. Hear from marketing powerhouses like Tyler Elliston (Founder, Right Side Up), Patrick Moran (Head of Growth Marketing, Robinhood), Sarah Crockett (CMO, DSW), Manbir Sodhia (Former SVP of Marketing, Whisker), and Jason Ing (CMO, Gusto) as they tackle today’s most pressing marketing challenges. 🗝️ Key Takeaways: Get the blueprint for scalable growth with Manbir Sodhia’s game-changing growth matrices, designed for fast, impactful results. Unlock the secret to blending brand storytelling with performance-driven strategies, as Patrick Moran highlights this powerful marketing duo. Find out how Sarah Crockett at DSW turns customer data into trend-setting strategies that keep the brand ahead of the curve. Discover why emotional storytelling isn’t just for B2C—Jason Ing reveals how it builds trust and drives success in the competitive B2B world. Explore how marketing roles evolve as companies grow, with Tyler Elliston’s insider tips on building versatile, high-performing teams. ⏰ Timestamps 00:00 Introduction 00:33 Manbir Sodhia: Finding Product-Market Fit 05:18 Patrick Moran: Brand vs. Performance Marketing 12:03 Sarah Crockett: Customer-Driven Strategy 18:09 Jason Ing: Emotional Storytelling in B2B Marketing 25:38 Tyler Elliston: Hiring and Evaluating Talent 31:58 Closing Thoughts 👍Did you enjoy this video? Don’t forget to click the like button! And find more episodes of Growth Talks here: https://bit.ly/3xXGJJc 🤝Connect with Right Side Up Right Side Up is a premium growth marketing agency that has helped more than 1,000+ companies hit their growth goals. Check us out and send us a note at: https://bit.ly/4bfaBQt ‣ Subscribe to our channel: https://bit.ly/3HWiJYD ‣ Subscribe to our marketing newsletter: https://rightsideup.com/resources/growth-marketing-newsletter/ ‣ Follow us on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rightsideup/ ‣ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RightSideUpCo/ ‣ Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/rightsideupco

“B2B marketing is really human-to-human marketing. Don’t just talk to companies; connect with the people running the show.” Michelle Lisowski, Senior Director of Global B2B and Partnership Marketing at Uber, joins Krystina Rubino on Growth Talks to explore the art of balancing strategy with scrappy execution, fostering emotionally intelligent teams, and scaling B2B marketing efforts globally. From cultivating a “see the forest through the trees” perspective to building team cultures where mistakes are embraced as learning opportunities, Michelle offers actionable insights for leaders navigating the demands of high-stakes marketing environments. 🗝️ Key Takeaways: Emotional intelligence isn’t just about being a great leader—it’s the secret sauce for better marketing. After all, B2B campaigns need to speak to human decision-makers, not just companies. Not all challenges are created equal. Learn how to differentiate between productive challenges that grow your career (good pain) and burnout that hinders progress (bad pain). Building trust and psychological safety in teams allows for faster iteration, better execution, and sustainable high performance. Scaling a global brand isn’t about reinventing the wheel for every market. It’s about knowing when to adapt locally and when to lean on universal truths. Want to lead like a pro? Hire people who are better than you. The strongest teams are the ones that can thrive without constant oversight. ⏰ Timestamps 00:00 Introduction to Michelle Lisowski’s career 01:22 Balancing scrappiness with strategic planning 05:43 The dangers of perfectionism and the value of collaboration 10:07 Fostering psychological safety in teams 15:18 Good pain vs. bad pain: knowing your limits 20:47 Scaling global marketing while adapting locally 25:12 Data-driven decisions vs. gut instinct in leadership 30:05 Michelle’s advice for aspiring B2B leaders 35:09 The power of hiring exceptional talent   🔗 Mentioned in this episode: Uber for Business: https://www.uber.com/us/en/business/ Google Cloud: https://cloud.google.com/ Kabbage: http://www.kabbage.com/   🤝Connect with Right Side Up Right Side Up is a premium growth marketing agency that has helped more than 1,000+ companies hit their growth goals. Check us out and send us a note at: https://bit.ly/4bfaBQt ‣ Subscribe to our channel: https://bit.ly/3HWiJYD ‣ Subscribe to our marketing newsletter: https://rightsideup.com/resources/growth-marketing-newsletter/ ‣ Follow us on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rightsideup/ ‣ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RightSideUpCo/ ‣ Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/rightsideupco

“Great brands, like great friends, are authentic and dependable—they stay true to themselves no matter what.” Sarah Crockett, Chief Marketing Officer at DSW, joins Krystina Rubino on Growth Talks to discuss how staying true to a brand’s core identity is the secret to navigating cultural shifts and customer expectations. In this episode, Sarah shares how her experiences with iconic brands like Burton, Dickies, and Backcountry shaped her perspective on balancing legacy with innovation. She discusses the power of customer insights in shaping marketing strategy, how loyalty programs can drive long-term value, and why brick-and-mortar stores are more than just retail spaces—they’re powerful brand-building tools. 🗝️ Key Takeaways: Flash sales are enticing, but long-term loyalty programs deliver sustainable results and build trust. Ditch quick wins for customer loyalty.  Cultural alignment is key. Customers can spot when a brand “chases” trends without staying true to its core. Retail is actually a marketing channel. Brick-and-mortar experiences create unmatched dwell time and brand engagement. Don’t underestimate the in-person experience! Adapt by listening to customer needs and pivot your strategy for sustained relevance. Internal culture drives external impact. When you build a passionate, empowered internal team it fuels better customer experiences. ⏰ Timestamps 00:00 Introduction to Sarah Crockett’s career 01:15 Balancing brand evolution with legacy 04:00 The role of authenticity in brand marketing 06:45 Dickies x Sydney Sweeney: When culture meets core values 09:30 Navigating trends without losing your brand’s identity 12:45 Measuring success in loyalty programs 15:30 Evolving the DSW customer experience 20:00 The power of retail as a brand marketing channel 22:15 Internal culture and employee buy-in as growth drivers 25:00 The future of retail and omnichannel strategies 30:00 Sarah’s advice for aspiring marketing leaders 35:00 Closing thoughts on authenticity and growth   🔗 Mentioned in this episode: DSW: www.dsw.com Burton: www.burton.com Dickies: www.dickies.com Backcountry: www.backcountry.com Force of Nature Campaign: www.rei.com/h/force-of-nature 👍Did you enjoy this video? Don’t forget to click the like button! And find more episodes of Growth Talks here: https://bit.ly/3xXGJJc 🤝Connect with Right Side Up Right Side Up is a premium growth marketing agency that has helped more than 1,000+ companies hit their growth goals. Check us out and send us a note at: https://bit.ly/4bfaBQt ‣ Subscribe to our Youtube channel: https://bit.ly/3HWiJYD ‣ Subscribe to our marketing newsletter: https://rightsideup.com/resources/growth-marketing-newsletter/ ‣ Follow us on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rightsideup/ ‣ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RightSideUpCo/ ‣ Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/rightsideupco