Marty Cagan: Moving to the product model

Martina Hodges-Schell is a transformation coach and consultant that helps organizations adopt a Silicon Valley approach to innovation. She spent 25 years leading design and innovation in tech companies, and now she loves providing a fresh, outside perspective to help teams develop and mature their product practice.In this conversation, we…* define transformation and what it means for your company operating model* explore how a company operating model might be shifted by adapting AI technology* Discuss how embodied leadership practices like equine coaching can give leaders the most honest feedbackEnjoy!—Topics discussed(05:31) A horse's feedback reflects your behavior and communication(06:51) Feedback on your actions and decision making(10:48) Leaders MUST be involved in change process(13:57) Control is equated with power, active involvement important(18:58) Change is difficult, people resist it(19:45) Balancing ideas within organizations, encouraging participation(25:37) Four lenses for an operating model(29:18) How AI transforms operating model: structure and collaboration challenges(31:36) Organizational structure should promote collaboration and communication(37:17) Optimistic about innovation, promoting change and collaboration(39:55) Focus on broad possibilities, capabilities, and brand(43:16) Closing the loop from teams to leadership(50:20) Guiding questions in life(52:49) Book recommendations—Links & resources mentionedFind the full transcript at: https://podcast.makethingsthatmatter.com/martina-hodges-schell-operating-model/#transcript* Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email* Martina Hodges-Schell: website, LinkedIn* Book: Communicating the UX Vision: 13 Anti-patterns That Block Good Design—Related episodes:* #72 Pam Fox Rollin: Growing Groups Into Teams* #75 Chris Smith: Simple guidelines for AI investment sizing* #74 Chris Smith: How to think about adding AI to your product* #77 Marty Cagan: Moving to the product model* #39 Melissa Perri: Product strategy and the missing middle in organizations—People & orgs:* Noelle Saldana—Books:* The Build Trap* Growing Groups Into Teams* TRANSFORMED* Managing Transitions* Transitions: Making Sense of Life's Changes* Leading Change—Other resources:* Martina’s OMG (operating model goals) canvas* North Shore - AI transformation blog series This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Marty Cagan joins me for real talk about what it takes to transform into a strong product company. You can read the episode transcript here.—Topics discussed:(00:00) The process and challenges in writing a book(12:27) Real world products need tech for results(17:28) Deciding on investments, solving problems, and changing processes(28:11) Understanding disconnects(36:00) Top leadership support crucial(40:28) How product coaches help(44:57) "Being agile" doesn't always mean "doing agile"(49:52) Handling objections well(54:45) How it comes together in an organizational operating model—Links & resources mentioned:Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via emailMarty Cagan• LinkedIn, website• New book: TRANSFORMED• Previous books: INSPIRED, EMPOWERED• SVPG—Related episodes:• #31 Marty Cagan - Empowering product teams—Books:• The Crux• Good Strategy, Bad Strategy• The Art of Action—Other resources:• Product Management Theater• Product Leadership Theater• Transformation Theater• So You Want To Write a Book? This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Randy Silver is a product leadership advisor, podcast host, and global product community weaver. We explore the conversations needed to drive impact and perception of value.You can also read this episode here.—Topics discussed:(04:00) Moving from a journalistic editor to product editor(07:34) Parallels between product management film production(09:53) Missed opportunities & the need for collaboration(15:21) Alignment with stakeholders(18:24) Sales misalignment and restructures(21:10) Diagnosing teamwork challenges with partners(25:02) Diagnosing your new org via informational interviews(28:05) Creating a manager README(30:11) Roles and responsibilities convo for better understanding(35:19) Guiding conversations and change(44:22) Did reorganization at Airbnb address strategy misalignment?(46:18) Defensive reaction within product community to Airbnb(52:14) Coordinating while scaling—Links & resources mentionedFind the full transcript at: https://podcast.makethingsthatmatter.com/randy-silver-conversations-create-impact#transcriptSend episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via emailRandy Silver: website, LinkedIn, Twitter• MTP talk: “Getting aligned with your exec team by Randy Silver”• Podcast: The Product Experience• Book: “What Do We Do Now? A Product Manager’s Guide to Strategy in the Time of Crisis”• The product environment canvas• Stakeholder Informational interview template—Related episodes:• Andrew on Randy’s podcast, The Product Experience• #72 Pam Fox Rollin: Growing groups into teams• #44 Teresa Torres: Habits for clear thinking and better product bets• #18 Josh Seiden: Create clarity with outcomes thinking• #5 Rich Mironov: Building a thriving product organization• #3 Christina Wodtke: Unleashing potential with extraordinary teams—People & orgs:• Georgie Smallwood• Matt LeMay• Alan Albert - value based pricing• Itamar Gilad—Books:• Growing Groups Into Teams• Evidence Guided• The Team That Managed Itself• Continuous Discovery Habits• Outcomes Over Output• Making Things Happen: Mastering Project Management—Other resources:• Product, it’s time to grow up• The 11 Laws of Showrunning• Rich Mironov: The slippery slope of sales-led development• The Journey to Empowered Teams - Twitter, Airbnb & Tumblr• Product Strategy Acid Test• OODA loop• Manager README: The Indispensable Document for the Modern Manager• Roman Pichler - the decision making chart• Relentless equanimity This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Chris Smith is a longtime engineering leader who has been in the trenches of building with AI & machine learning for years. This is a short, bonus episode to go along with our main conversation: https://pod.fo/e/20a5ef—Topics discussed:(00:00) AI tooling allows for cost-effective testing.(06:02) Scoring and statistical measures to track progress.(09:22) Costs if model needs rebuilding or hyperparameter tuning(11:31) Order of magnitude investment estimates(15:10) Decide upfront when to cut bait.(17:12) Investment essentials for meaningful results and outcomes. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Chris Smith is a longtime engineering leader who has been in the trenches of building with AI & machine learning for years. He’s led the development of data systems & strategies at tech giants like early Google, Yahoo, and Sun; S&P 500's like Live Nation; and a wide variety of startups.—Topics discussed:(00:00) AI industry at inflection point, causing chaos(09:05) Machine learning, neural nets, and generative AI(14:03) Generative AI: LLMs + broad understanding(21:56) Open source models improve specialized problem solving(25:06) Access to data leads to competitive advantage(32:53) AI training improves productivity and learning speed(42:51) Reduced investment in GPT models speeds results(48:47) Expectation mismatch leads to brand perception risks(53:54) Non-technical work is crucial for AI product success(57:30) Building a computer vision product from scratch(01:03:14) A strategic approach to refining and testing prototypes(01:08:04) Closing learning loops—Links & resources mentionedFind the full transcript at: https://podcast.makethingsthatmatter.com/chris-smith-how-to-add-ai-to-product/#transcriptSend episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via emailChris Smith:• LinkedIn• X / Twitter: @xcbsmith• Bluesky @xcbsmith—Related episodes:• #75 Chris Smith: Simple guidelines for AI investment sizing—People & orgs:• Dr. Marily Nika - AI Lead, Meta Reality Lab• Travis Corrigan - Head of Product, Smith.AI—Books:• Evidence Guided - Itamar Gilad—Other resources:• GPT = “generative pre-trained transformer”• Wizard of Oz experiment• Tom Chi - learning loop• Joel Spolsky: The iceberg secret, revealed• ML Ops• Computer vision• Precision-Recall curves• Leaked Google memo: “There is no moat”• Universal basic income (UBI)• Stop-loss order This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Nacho Bassino is a veteran product leader and the author of Product Direction, one of my go-to books on how to actually generate a product strategy. There are many excellent books out there on strategy as a whole, but surprisingly few that specifically cover product strategy.—Topics discussed:(00:02:12) Nacho's journey into product leadership(00:09:23) How leaders can adapt to others' communication and cross-cultural preferences(00:10:50) Strategy: defining problems and prioritizing solutions(00:19:44) Painful, but typical; a fake strategy(00:24:20) Time and team needed for first big strategy creation(00:30:17) Three key aspects of quarterly reviews: OKRs, roadmaps, and Opportunity Solution Trees(00:35:33) Connection between impact, outcomes, and initiatives with revenue generation(00:40:11) Empowerment: teams' accountability and autonomy(00:51:36) Nacho's hard product leadership call(00:58:15) Strategy for startups vs larger companies(00:59:02) How the opportunity space expands with company growth—Links & resources mentionedFind the full transcript at: https://podcast.makethingsthatmatter.com/nacho-bassino-build-your-first-product-strategy/#transcript• Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email• Nacho Bassino: Website, LinkedIn• Book: Product Direction• Podcast: 100 Product Strategies—Related episodes:• #68 Adam Thomas: Operationalizing product strategy—Books:• Product Direction• The Culture Map• Playing to Win• Product Roadmaps Relaunched—Other resources and articles:• A product strategy acid test• What is "strategy"?• Burnout as a strategy problem• Should leaders be prescriptive about strategy?• Product strategy: focus vs prioritization• Does strategy matter before product-market fit (PMF)?• Execs care about revenue. How do we get them to care about outcomes? This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Pam Fox Rollin is an executive coach and strategist. This is a conversation about the conversations that leaders are not having. These are THE difference between building a truly committed team that delivers the future you care about… and having a group which is a team in name only.Topics discussed:(00:03:55) Writing a book about teams as a team.(00:11:41) Teamwork failure due to individual mindset silos.(00:14:51) Telling the difference between hard work and commitment(00:18:40) OKRs align and drive team objectives.(00:20:54) Incentive structures and team behaviors(00:24:02) Shared promise vital for effective team; align goals and coordinate efforts.(00:28:25) Leaders build futures that matter through conversations.(00:33:08) Finance team doubts engineering's budget needs.(00:36:23) Trust: vulnerability in actions and five dimensions.(00:38:21) Dimensions of trust(00:42:23) Design conversations as a leader to level up.(00:46:01) Challenges of remote work and trust.(00:49:05) Missing conversations hinder team building efforts.(00:53:44) Collaboration needed in achieving desired outcomes.—Links & resources mentionedFind the full transcript at: https://podcast.makethingsthatmatter.com/pam-fox-rollin-growing-groups-into-teams/#transcript* Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email* Pam Fox Rollin: LinkedIn, Altus Growth Partners* New book: Growing Groups Into Teams* Altus’ Growth podcast: Missing Conversations—Related episodes:* #22 Pam Fox Rollin: Be a leader who helps people come alive—People & orgs:* Bob Dunham - Institute for Generative Leadership—Books:* Growing Groups Into Teams* The Thin Book of Trust - Charles Feltman—Other resources:* IBM study: “Augmented work for an automated, AI-driven world”* Paper: On the Folly of Rewarding A, While Hoping for B This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

Zooming in on three common change management issues: forecasting, role transitions, and departmental power dynamics.—Topics discussed(00:03:01) Companies transforming into product organizations(00:05:01) Revenue shift: smaller now, longer-term impact(00:08:30) Practical topics: forecasting, transition, change management(00:10:04) Identifying leading measures and assumptions in forecasts(00:14:25) Seeking tech-enabled scale, revenue visibility, innovation(00:20:29) Power shifts in organizations impact staffing and funding(00:22:12) Evolving organizational model for product-centric strategy(00:27:23) Key considerations for acquiring a company: purpose, integration, impact(00:31:18) Leaders modeling simple mental health practices shift organizations. Organizational change requires supporting structures and models(00:35:38) Quieting the mind to connect and trust(00:37:33) Organizations need specific change management for success(00:40:40) "Name fears, tame them; face personal insecurities."—Links & resources mentionedFull transcript at: https://podcast.makethingsthatmatter.com/eisha-armstrong-pragmatic-change-management-strategies/#transcript* Send episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email* Guest: Eisha Tierney Armstrong - LinkedIn* Book: Fearless: How to Transform a Services Culture and Successfully Productize—Related episodes:* #2 Barry O’Reilly: Unlearning and creating culture change* #9 Amy Edmondson: Building teams where people feel safe* #59 Kenny Borg: Identity transformation and embodying fulfillment—Books:* Fearless: How to Transform a Services Culture and Successfully Productize (Eisha’s book)* "Leading Change" by John Kotter* “Managing Transitions: Making the Most of the Change” by William Bridges This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

MJ Jastrebski is the CPO of Stylitics, a rapidly scaling retail technology company that helps retail websites automate styling and bundling for their consumers.Click here to fill out the MTTM listener survey form by August 16, 2023: https://makethingsthatmatter.com/survey—In this episode, we cover:(00:07:20) Understanding product roles/levels, influence, and career growth.(00:13:10) Product and process management at different levels.(00:19:22) Leadership training emphasizes accountability among executive teams, prioritizing cross-functional exec peer relationships & alignment.(00:28:27) The importance of buoyancy.(00:36:17) How mindfulness and empathy are important for effective leadership.(00:43:41) What Stylitics is doing and how it's scaling up(00:47:12) Expanding internationally and into new verticals. Emphasis on shipping and team muscle building.(00:55:38) Creating product families to address pain points, setting expectations, iterating with alpha, beta, and GA stages, building retailer relationships, understanding different market needs.(01:02:08) Changing roles, building skills, and evolving identity.(01:11:30) Creating psychological safety is crucial for innovation. It allows people to take risks without fear of judgment or failure. This enables organizations to gather more information and make better decisions.—Links & resources mentioned• You can end episode feedback on Twitter @askotzko , or via email• Guest: MJ Jastrebski & Stylitics—Related episodes:• Mike Saloio: Leadership, meditation, ego, and ubuntu• Amy Edmondson: Building teams where people feel safe• Kenny Borg: Identity transformation—People & orgs:• Stylitics• Carlota Perez—Books:• Technological Revolutions and Financial Capital: The Dynamics of Bubbles and Golden Ages• The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership• Multipliers—Other resources:• Give away your legos• How to craft your product team at every stage, from pre-PMF to hypergrowth• The 3 lenses of innovation This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit blog.makethingsthatmatter.com

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