Teaching math so students learn with Craig Barton (Ep 63)

In this episode, Anna is joined by Craig Barton, former secondary maths teacher, host of the Mr. Barton Maths Podcast, author of How I Wish I’d Taught Maths, and a new Tips for Teachers book series. Craig reflects on how his teaching evolved after engaging deeply with learning science and educational research. Together, they explore what effective explicit instruction looks like in math from atomisation and worked examples to checking for understanding, purposeful practice, and problem solving across the I do, we do, you do phases. This practical, research-informed episode is essential for educators looking to improve math outcomes by aligning instruction with how learning works. This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke SHORT COURSE  La Trobe Short Course:  Evidence-informed Mathematics Teaching – An Introduction https://shortcourses.latrobe.edu.au/evidence-informed-mathematics-teaching CRAIG BARTON'S BOOKS & WEBSITE Order How I Wish I’d Taught Maths here: https://shorturl.at/rGTin Craig Barton’s Tips for Teachers books & websites: https://mrbartonmaths.com/ TIMESTAMPS [00:00:22] Introduction [00:05:09] What changed Craig’s mind about how to teach math [00:09:07] When struggle isn’t productive [00:12:29] Essential components of a well-structured, explicit instruction lesson [00:14:54] An introduction to atomisation [00:16:16] Purposeful practice [00:21:08] More on atomisation [00:23:58] Examples of atomisation [00:27:03] Summary of atomisation [00:27:49] How to deal with wide skill ranges in the math classroom [00:31:36] Engelman & Carnine’s Theory of Instruction [00:32:30] Tips for the ‘I do’ stage [00:38:24] Importance of checking for listening [00:44:17] Tips for the ‘We do’ stage [00:45:51]  A ‘we do’ fraction example [00:49:23] Atomisation helps with struggle [00:52:24] Tips for the ‘You do’ stage [00:54:13] How to use purposeful practice [00:55:24] How to set students up to solve non-routine problems [01:03:56] How to effectively teach problem solving [01:09:05] The importance of structure [01:09:53] Can explicit instruction in math be interactive? [01:12:01] Where to find Craig [01:13:08] Final thoughts RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES  Cognitive load theory with Greg Ashman https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-thbad-13cea56 Raising student achievement with Dylan Wiliam https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-kduiw-15bba36 Project Follow Through:  Direct Instruction’s overlooked success with Marcy Stein https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-a9fqx-17a2ffb Using the Instructional Hierarchy to teach math with Brendan Lee https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-3zux7-193d0fc EPISODE TRANSCRIPT https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-63-transcript MUSIC Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band -  ColorFilmMusic Website: www.annastokke.com FB: Chalk & Talk IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast X: @rastokke LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social

In this episode, Anna is joined by Dr. Jared Cooney Horvath, a cognitive neuroscientist, educator, and bestselling author of The Digital Delusion. They examine what decades of research and international data reveal about classroom technology, screens, multitasking, attention, and memory, and why more technology often leads to less learning. Jared explains how offloading knowledge to devices can undermine higher-order thinking, why human teachers’ expertise, and practice, remain central to learning, and when technology may help or hinder students. The conversation also tackles how schools and families can navigate an increasingly tech-saturated education system. This is a thoughtful, evidence-informed episode for educators, parents, and anyone questioning whether digital tools in the classroom are helping students learn or holding them back. This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke Order The Digital Delusion here: https://www.lmeglobal.net/digital-delusion TIMESTAMPS [00:00:22] Introduction [00:04:50] Cognitive decline among Gen Z [00:09:14] The decline international test scores and the correlation with technology [00:11:28] Screen usage in schools [00:13:03] Relationship between EdTech and countries that invest less in it [00:16:16] Effect size in education in the context of EdTech [00:20:49] What forms of EdTech work? [00:25:17] When EdTech is a better than nothing [00:32:57] Practise and producers are essential to learning [00:33:30] What is creativity? [00:34:20] Why offloading learning to technology harms creativity [00:38:50] AI: The Tool Nobody Asked For [00:44:17] Difference between K-12 and university students using EdTech [00:47:14]   EdTech creates multi-tasking [00:54:27] Advice: Responding to “digital devices are ubiquitous” [00:55:50] Advice: Responding to “these students learn differently” [01:00:32] General advice for parents and school leaders [01:03:46] Laptops vs iPads vs notetaking by hand [01:06:48] Being a Luddite in the 21st century   RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES  Educational leadership:  Improving math and literacy with Scott Hill https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-vpzf8-16d0c17 Mindsets and educational misconceptions with Carl Hendrick https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-78zv9-15493b1 Applying cognitive science to education with Daniel Willingham https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-szugf-149dff1 The tweet that roared with Tom Bennett https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-bpgqn-14326ef EPISODE TRANSCRIPT https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-62-transcript  MUSIC Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band -  ColorFilmMusic Website: www.annastokke.com FB: Chalk & Talk IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast X: @rastokke LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social

In this episode, Anna is joined by two familiar guests, mathematician and founder of JUMP Math, Dr. John Mighton, and learning expert and bestselling author Dr. Barbara Oakley. They discuss their new Coursera course, Making Math Click: Understanding Math Without Fear, what learning science reveals about how students learn math, and why practice and worked examples play such a critical role in building math confidence. They discuss schemas, give some cautionary advice about using manipulatives and concrete-pictorial-abstract approaches, and explain why moving quickly from concrete to abstract matters. They describe what’s at stake when math education fails, what’s lost when students don’t develop foundational skills, and what it will take to help more learners succeed in math. This is a practical, engaging, and insightful episode for teachers, parents, university students, and anyone who has ever felt they weren’t a math person. This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke Making Math Click: Understand Math Without Fear: Free course with certificate: https://www.coursera.org/learn/math-click?action=showPartnerSupportedAccess TIMESTAMPS [00:00:22] Introduction [00:05:40] How Barbara’s background shaped her approach to math [00:07:00] John’s experience with math from a young age [00:09:21] John and Barbara’s Coursera course [00:11:07] Who is their course for? [00:15:45] Is the course beneficial for teachers? [00:21:54] What math and Sylvia Plath’s writing have in common [00:23:51] Building schemas in math [00:26:46] Getting good at math leads to liking math [00:31:08] Kaminsky’s research on manipulatives vs. abstract representations [00:33:39] Fading from concrete to abstract [00:40:30] Barbara’s article in the Seattle Times [00:42:30] Real world consequences of innumeracy [00:49:13] Learning math takes practice and patience [00:51:38] Societal loss from kids not learning math [00:57:13] Failed constructivist approaches [01:00:50] Barbara’s and John’s recommendations for system improvements [01:05:42] Final thoughts RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES  How to excel in math and other tough subject with Barabara Oakley https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/ep-7-best-ways-to-learn-math-with-barbara-oakley/ Math and the Myth of Ability with John Mighton https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/ep-1-math-and-the-myth-of-ability-with-john-mighton/ Balanced literacy didn’t work–will balanced math? with Ben Solomon https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-usvqw-1962107 Math fact crisis: strategies for improving numeracy with Brian Poncy https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-u9y84-165d773 EPISODE RESOURCES https://www.annastokke.com/resources/ep-61-resources  EPISODE TRANSCRIPT https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-61-transcript MUSIC Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band -  ColorFilmMusic Website: www.annastokke.com FB: Chalk & Talk IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast X: @rastokke LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social

In this episode, Anna talks with Dr. Jonas Linderoth, a professor of education at the University of Gothenburg, about how influential educational ideas have shaped the teaching profession and why evidence from cognitive science and educational psychology still faces resistance in teacher education. They discuss how education reforms of the 1990s affected teacher status and student outcomes, and Jonas’ reflections on his own role during that period. They also discuss why evidence-based pedagogy is so crucial and what it means when teachers encounter research-informed strategies and respond with a single word – “finally”.   They also explore Sweden’s recent proposal to embed cognitive science in teacher preparation, why it’s controversial, and how implementation is unfolding. This is an insightful episode for anyone interested in how research, policy, and classroom practice come together. This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke TIMESTAMPS [00:00:22] Introduction [00:04:50] The Swedish school reforms   [00:08:57] The prevalence of constructivist teaching [00:12:26] Realizing the evidence didn’t match the rhetoric [00:13:36] How Jonas’s call for reflection became the most read article in Sweden [00:17:13] Perceptions of the teaching profession in Sweden [00:20:01] A systematic approach to teaching art [00:22:40] PISA & TIMS scores in Sweden [00:24:34] Why education academics research the Science of Learning [00:26:35] The value of quantitative research [00:29:23] Sweden’s move to embed cognitive science in teacher preparation [00:32:37] Reaction to the government proposal to transform teacher preparation [00:34:34] How evidence-based practice caught the government’s attention [00:36:52] Jonas’s work with pre-service teachers [00:37:28] When teachers say “finally” about evidence-based techniques [00:42:37] Core content for preparing future teachers [00:44:41] Grass-roots science of learning movements [00:46:02] The future of education in Sweden [00:49:24] Final thoughts: Jonas’s advice for international audiences   RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES  The power of explicit instruction with Anita Archer https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/the-power-of-explicit-instruction-with-anita-archer-ep-57/ Maximizing learning through explicit instruction with Zach Groshell https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/ep-10-maximizing-learning-through-explicit-instruction-with-zach-groshell/ Evidence-based teaching strategies with Paul Kirschner https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-zgw6i-13b33df Cognitive Load Theory with Greg Ashman https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/ep-4-cognitive-load-theory-with-greg-ashman/ EPISODE RESOURCES https://www.annastokke.com/resources/ep-60-resources EPISODE TRANSCRIPT https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-60-transcript MUSIC Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band -  ColorFilmMusic Website: www.annastokke.com FB: Chalk & Talk IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast X: @rastokke LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social

In this episode, Anna talks with Dr. George Georgiou, an educational psychologist and professor in the Faculty of Education at the University of Alberta, whose work focuses on preventing and remediating reading difficulties. The episode explores recent Human Rights Commission investigations in Canadian provinces that examined why students haven’t been taught to read using effective, evidence-based, methods–what the inquiries uncovered, and how the situation deteriorated to this point.   They also discuss George’s research on reading difficulties and his eye-opening study that revealed the gaps in pre-service teachers’ knowledge of language and literacy. They talk about recent reforms in Alberta, including the rollout of universal literacy screening–what the results have shown so far, and how parents and schools are responding. This conversation really highlights what’s possible when research, policy, and practice come together.  As always, Anna advocates that math deserves the same attention as reading.  It’s a must-listen for educators and policymakers worldwide.  This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke Supporting the Right to Read in Manitoba (Manitoba Human Rights Commission, 2025) https://www.manitobahumanrights.ca/education/pdf/public-consultations/supportingrighttoread.pdf TIMESTAMPS [00:00:22] Introduction [00:01:09] Findings from the Manitoba Human Rights Commission [00:06:02] George Georgiou’s research background [00:08:02] The Right to Read Human Rights Reports in Canada [00:12:11] Thoughts on the Right to Read reports [00:16:26] Similarities with math [00:17:07] Good curriculum that focuses on foundational skills [00:19:31] The study: Pre-service Teachers' Knowledge of Language and Literacy Concepts [00:27:39] Results of the Human Rights Report in post-secondary education [00:29:46] Reaction to the study: Pre-service Teachers' Knowledge of Language and Literacy Concepts [00:30:39] The Alberta English Language Arts curriculum [00:32:56] Is the new curriculum working? [00:37:31] What is universal screening? [00:44:50] What are the free assessments? [00:48:46] Findings of the assessments [00:53:38] Communicating the results to parents [00:54:34] Criticism on the screening process and results [01:00:40] Reading intervention programs [01:05:33] Final Thoughts: The future of early screening and intervention in Canada [01:09:02] Final Thoughts: What role should universities play in preparing teachers? RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES  How advocacy is changing reading instruction with Jamie Metsala https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/how-advocacy-is-changing-reading-instruction-with-jamie-metsala/ Using evidence in education with Pamela Snow https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/using-evidence-in-education-with-pamela-snow-ep-27/ Reading and math: parallels and pitfalls with Matthew Burns https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/ep-20-reading-and-math-parallels-and-pitfalls-with-matthew-burns/ Universal screening in math with Amanda VanDerHeyden https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/universal-screening-in-math-with-amanda-vanderheyden-ep-50/ EPISODE RESOURCES https://www.annastokke.com/resources/ep-59-resources EPISODE TRANSCRIPT https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-59-transcript MUSIC Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band -  ColorFilmMusic Website: www.annastokke.com X: @rastokke LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social

In this episode, Anna Stokke welcomes Dr. Nuno Crato, research professor of mathematics and statistics at the University of Lisbon. He was Portugal’s former Minister of Education and led major education reforms from 2011 to 2015.  His education reforms contributed to Portugal’s strongest-ever results on international assessments like PISA and TIMSS. Nuno shares his belief that everything starts with the curriculum and stresses the importance of clear standards, accountability, and student support. He also explains how Portugal raised academic rigor while helping struggling learners. They also discuss what Nuno’s research on PISA and TIMSS reveal about the characteristics of effective education systems and the lessons policymakers can draw from Portugal’s success. This episode is a must-listen for educators, policymakers, and anyone with an interest in improving education. This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke Nuno Crato’s website: https://www.nunocrato.org   TIMESTAMPS [00:00:22] Introduction [00:05:12] Becoming Portugal’s Minister of Education [00:08:51] Adjusting to the position of Minister of Education [00:13:07] The landscape of the Portuguese Education System, early 2000s [00:19:08] The importance of a good curriculum [00:23:07] Using TIMSS data to structure a knowledge-based curriculum [00:26:22] Using testing to ensure curriculum goals are met [00:29:11] Concerns about project-based learning [00:34:18] Standard assessments and evaluations [00:39:31] Accountability markers and incentives for standard assessments [00:43:08] Addressing testing and accountability criticisms [00:44:59] Becoming informed about evidence-based pedagogy [00:48:23] What PISA data reveals about effective types of instruction [00:51:04] Does more money spent on education translate to better outcomes? [00:52:15] What changes are more likely to lead to better outcomes? [00:54:58] Results of PISA and TIMSS in 2015 Portugal [00:59:53] Pushback to education reforms and where it came from [01:04:54] Advice to policymakers RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES  From decline to top rankings: How England transformed education with Nick Gibb https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-zps9p-18c1e97 The importance of practice and the power of Math Corps with Alex Kontorovich https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-d8bef-1916f6d EPISODE RESOURCES https://www.annastokke.com/resources/ep-58-resources   EPISODE TRANSCRIPT https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-58-transcript   MUSIC Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch it Website: www.annastokke.com X: @rastokke LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social

This episode features top takeaways from Anna Stokke’s interview: The Power of Explicit Instruction with Dr. Anita Archer. If you haven’t heard the full conversation yet, you can find the entire episode on the Chalk & Talk YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/EE5wvi-xQTM?si=Wx8W4eb5YOqdWEvM Anita is one of the world’s leading experts on explicit instruction and co-author of the bestselling book Explicit Instruction: Effective and Efficient Teaching.  Resource page: https://www.annastokke.com/resources/ep-57-resources

Episode 57:  The power of explicit instruction with Anita Archer In this episode, Anna Stokke welcomes Dr. Anita Archer, one of the world’s leading experts on explicit instruction and co-author of the bestselling book Explicit Instruction: Effective and Efficient Teaching. They discuss what explicit instruction is, why it’s both effective and efficient, and what the research says about its impact. Together, they discuss who benefits from explicit instruction, common mistakes teachers make, and practical strategies such as the “I do, we do, you do” model. Dr. Archer also shares insights from her 50-year career in education and offers advice for teachers looking to strengthen their instructional practices and help all students succeed.   This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke   TIMESTAMPS [00:00:22] Introduction [00:05:26] Anita’s background in explicit instruction [00:07:30] The three big C’s (clear, concise, and consistent) [00:10:25] What is explicit Instruction? [00:13:30] Problems with multiple strategies [00:15:50] Explicit instruction is effective and efficient [00:20:58] Research on explicit instruction [00:27:11] Who does explicit instruction benefit? [00:30:56] When to begin using explicit instruction [00:38:24] Lack of awareness about effectiveness of explicit instruction [00:42:32] Teaching well from the start reduces tier 2 intervention [00:45:55] identifying the different stages/phases: I do, we do, you do [00:44:48] Phase 1: I do [00:47:43] Phase 2: We do [00:49:47] Phase 3: You do [00:53:29] Importance of giving students opportunities to respond [00:58:57] What are unison choral responses? [01:03:17] The importance of structured turn and talks [01:08:31] Resource recommendations and Archerisms RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES  The Science of Math with Amanda VanDerHeyden https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/ep-3-the-science-of-math-with-amanda-vanderheyden/   Maximizing learning through explicit instruction with Zach Groshell https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/ep-10-maximizing-learning-through-explicit-instruction-with-zach-groshell/   Balanced literacy didn’t work—will balanced math? with Ben Solomon https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/balanced-literacy-didn-t-work%e2%80%94will-balanced-math-with-ben-solomon-ep-54/   EPISODE RESOURCES https://www.annastokke.com/resources/ep-57-resources EPISODE TRANSCRIPT https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-57-transcript MUSIC Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch it Website: www.annastokke.com X: @rastokke LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social

In this episode, Anna Stokke welcomes three leading experts in education, Dr. Paul Kirschner, Dr. Carl Hendrick, and Dr. Jim Heal for a fascinating discussion about their new book, Instructional Illusions. Drawing on decades of experience and research, they explore key ideas from the book, including how to bridge the gap between educational research and classroom practice. Together, they discuss the science of learning, evidence-informed teaching, and how educators can apply research insights to improve instruction. This engaging conversation is a must-listen for anyone passionate about effective teaching and student learning.   Register for the Masterclass:  Evidence-informed Mathematics Teaching, La Trobe School of Education   Read the book, Instructional Illusions, here: https://tinyurl.com/instructional-illusions    TIMESTAMPS [00:00:22] Introductions [00:05:15] What are Instructional Illusions? [00:07:30] The difference between illusions and myths [00:11:13] The discovery illusion [00:12:50] Why do people believe in discovery learning? [00:19:50] The curse of knowledge [00:24:29] The innovation illusion [00:30:01] Unmasking the innovation illusion [00:32:59] The expertise Illusion [00:38:04] The Dunning-Kruger effect [00:43:48] Unmasking the expertise illusion [00:47:50] The uniqueness illusion [00:50:52] The engagement illusion [00:57:10] Shifting the focus to cognitive engagement [01:01:28] The student-centred illusion [01:05:00] Unmasking the student-centred illusion [01:06:23] Is the science of learning a fad? RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES  Evidence Based Teaching Strategies with Paul Kirschner https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/ep2-evidence-based-teaching-strategies-with-paul-kirschner/   Mindsets and Misconceptions with Carl Hendrick https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/ep-22-mindsets-and-misconceptions-with-carl-hendrick/   EPISODE RESOURCES Why Minimal Guidance During Instruction Does Not Work: An Analysis of the Failure of Constructivist, Discovery, Problem-Based, Experiential, and Inquiry-Based Teaching: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/s15326985ep4102_1 EPISODE TRANSCRIPT https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-56-transcript   MUSIC Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch it Website: www.annastokke.com X: @rastokke LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social

In this episode, Anna Stokke hosts an informative mailbag edition with guest Jonathan Regino, supervisor of math (pre-K-12) at Interboro School District in Pennsylvania and an experienced classroom teacher. Drawing on their combined experience and expertise, they tackle listener questions, ranging from how to address large knowledge gaps among students to program recommendations. They also offer guidance on becoming informed about evidence-based practices, effective ways to assess students, and more. This engaging conversation is a must-listen for anyone seeking to strengthen math instruction and improve student learning.   This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke   Register for the Masterclass:  Evidence-informed Mathematics Teaching, La Trobe School of Education   TIMESTAMPS [00:00:22] Introduction [00:04:52] Question 1: How can new teachers learn about evidence-based practices? [00:09:52] Book recommendations [00:16:08] researchED [00:18:12] Question 2: Grading math assessments with points versus using standards-based grading [00:23:00] The 1,2,3,4 scale breakdown [00:26:16] Consistency with the grading system [00:27:30] Question 3: Free class-wide interventions to address math knowledge gaps [00:28:40] Delta Math RtI [00:33:09] Supporting high school math students with large knowledge gaps [00:38:46] Recommended resources [00:43:22] Question 4: England’s times table check [00:47:40] Question 5: Are spiraling programs ineffective? [00:50:02] Understanding spiraling vs. interleaving vs. spaced practice [00:56:14] Program recommendations [00:59:44] Final thoughts   RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES  From decline to top rankings: How England transformed education with Nick Gibb https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-zps9p-18c1e97 Cognitive load theory in math class with David Morkunas https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-znh5k-15f7937 Rocking the times tables with Bruno Reddy https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/rocking-the-times-tables-with-bruno-reddy/ Math fact crisis: Strategies for improving numeracy with Brian Poncy https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/math-fact-crisis-strategies-for-improving-numeracy-with-brian-poncy/   EPISODE RESOURCES https://www.annastokke.com/resources/ep-55-resources   EPISODE TRANSCRIPT https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-55-transcript   MUSIC Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch it Website: www.annastokke.com X: @rastokke LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social