Towards the Symbiocene: Building an Eco-Civilisation with thought-leader, Jeremy Lent

Jeremy Lent is a long time friend of the podcast.  His new book, 'Ecocivilization: Making a World That Works for All'  is coming out at the end of April 2026 and so we got together to discuss what an Ecocivilisation is, why we so badly need to become one, and how we might get there. These questions have animated all of Jeremy Lent's writing, from The Patterning Instinct, through The Web of Meaning and now to his latest in this seminal trifecta: Ecocivilization: Making a World That Works For All.  We spoke to Jeremy back in Episode #301 to lay the foundations of the book, to explore the ways the current system is not fit for purpose and then to leave the door open for this episode, which is timed so that you can pre-order the book in plenty of time - it's out on the 26th of May in the US and the 28th in the UK. This is a genuinely Thrutopian book in that it lays out pathways - route maps - towards a future we'd be proud to leave behind. Nobody is pretending these are the only routes, but I think we are all agreed that the values and beliefs underpinning the new system will have to be coherent in the same way the values of power-over and beliefs in separation, scarcity and powerlessness are core to what Jeremy called Wendigo Inc. and we tend to call the Death Cult of Predatory Capitalism. I'm sure Jeremy needs no introduction to anyone in this field, but there's always someone for whom this is the first podcast - you're so welcome here, thank you - and so for those to whom some of the people and ideas are new, Jeremy Lent was born in London, has a BA in English Literature from Cambridge University, an MBA from the University of Chicago, and was a former internet company CEO. Now, he is an author, speaker and founder of the  Deep Transformation Network, a global community exploring pathways to an ecological civilization. He is the author of the three books we mentioned, and is helping to co-create an EcoCivilisation Visioning Forum and various other umbrella seed-banks to help bring his ideas into being. He is one of those people who has given his life to the emerging of a system that will work for all life. Jeremy's Website: https://www.jeremylent.comJeremy's Blog https://patternsofmeaning.comJeremy on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-lent-ba153017/Jeremy's YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@JeremyLentDeep Transformation Network https://deeptransformation.network/feedTOUR DATES: []Guardian article on global tipping point https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/13/coral-reefs-ice-sheets-amazon-rainforest-tipping-point-global-heating-scientists-reportBooksThe Patterning Instinct https://www.jeremylent.com/the-patterning-instinct.htmlThe Web of Meaning https://www.jeremylent.com/the-web-of-meaning.htmlEcoCivilization - pre-order here: https://www.jeremylent.com/Previous Episodes#102 - Weaving the Web of Meaning  https://accidentalgods.life/weaving-the-web-of-meaning/#38 - Fractal Flourishing https://accidentalgods.life/fractal-flourishing/#310 - Eco-civilisation - Part 1   https://accidentalgods.life/eco-civilisation-the-future-we-deserve-and-how-we-will-get-there-with-jeremy-lent/—About Accidental Gods—We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass Our next Open Gathering offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme is 'FALLING IN LOVE WITH LIFE' which will run on Sunday 17th May 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member of Accidental Gods - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer one-to-one Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.

What are the stories we tell ourselves and each other about ourselves and each other and our place in the living web of life—and how do we shape them in service to Life?  This is the central question that animates Accidental Gods: the idea that we are a storied species, that humanity lives and breathes and loves and learns by the rich tapestry of stories that shape our lives.  Everything we do from picking a career to moving house, from finding our life's co-creator(s) to choosing what to have for lunch is underpinned by stories of who we are and how the world works.  Often, we take these stories so much for granted that we don't even recognise they are stories - we genuinely believe the world works like this.But then once in a while, someone comes along with such great heart and deep, compassionate fluency in the many layers of our myths that they can weave magic wild enough to turn the bus that is humanity from the edge of the cliff - or at the very least, they can help us imagine what it is to be something entirely other, with no bus and no cliff. This week's guest, Sam Crosby, is one such myth-weaver. Sam is founder of Recalling Fire, the oral storytelling practice bringing ancient courage to modern leadership challenges. Guided by the work of Dr Martin Shaw at the School of Myth, fellow of the Bio-Leadership Project, mentor for A Band of Brothers and Alumnus of the Dartington College of Arts, he works with individuals and organisations all around the world, helping us to weave, re-weave the stories of our lives. Of this process, he says, '…after sharing reverential space and stories with hundreds of people as an oral storyteller and hundreds of thousands more as a consultant for culture, I believe stories and careful word choice have what it takes to guide us further down.'This conversation was rich and deeply layered.  We explored Arthurian Legend (fwiw, I think A Sword at Sunset by Rosemary Sutcliff remains the best Arthurian book, though Mary Stewart's Crystal Cave trilogy was my introduction to the whole genre and while I could never bring myself to read the third book, the first two were stellar), through a story of choice and agency, through the nature of grief and gratitude, love, loss and death as a Rite of Passage to the nature of story in modern politics: everything was here in a truly generative long-hour's conversation.   Enjoy! LinksSign up here for Sam's next event in May https://www.recallingfire.com/tristan-and-isolde-2026This is the Substack article we were referring to https://recallingfire.substack.com/p/essay-mythocartographyand then:Recalling Fire websiteDrop the Map Podcast1-on-1 Guidance from SamBand of BrothersSam on LinkedInSam on BlueSky Sam on MastodonClarissa Pinkola EstesDanny Deerdorff MythSinger Project—About Accidental Gods—We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass Our next Open Gathering offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme is 'FALLING IN LOVE WITH LIFE' which will run on Sunday 17th May 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member of Accidental Gods - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer one-to-one Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.

How do we create stories powerful enough, moving enough, inspiring enough - and grounded enough - to shift the trajectory of our culture onto a totally new pathway? This week's guest, Matt Golding, has spent his entire professional life exploring what makes stories go viral, gaining awards, big contracts and a deep instinct for how to help people see the best in themselves in ways that can shape new narratives. Since the early days of the internet, Matt has been breaking rules and breaking new ground. He's a strategist, writer & filmmaker using story to excite people about the possible future that's emerging all around us - that works better for the majority. He believes the stories we share shape the culture we inhabit, and with a background in viral campaigns, he's fascinated with how we can use creativity, heart and humour to shape stories people share - that unlock a more positive future.  As director of impact and social change studio, Rubber Republic, he was as the forefront of a movement that used shareable content campaigns to engage mass audiences with a better future. Historically, he worked with brands like Disney, eBay, Channel 4, BBC, Fiat and Yorkshire Tea, but since 2019 he has committed only to work with organisations 100% committed to creating a future that functions for all.He's the founder of ANTIDOTE - a positive storytelling platform sharing stories of collective action by ordinary people that are changing our world for the better. Matt says that it's 'an experiment in reshaping how we find and tell collective action stories to see if we can get them more mainstream traction and appeal, and make them more invitational so we can get more people to be inspired into action.'  Which is as Thrutopian as it gets. And, on top of all this, he's co-host of the recently launched - and absolutely brilliant - podcast  'Screw This, Let's Try Something Else...' sharing stories of ordinary communities creating extraordinary change. And then finally, on top of all of this, there's a postcode search tool, so you can get involved in transformative things wherever you are (in the UK - though at some point, someone will stretch it worldwide) In a crazy-making world, join us for a dose of inspiring sanity, creativity and hope. LinksAntidote https://www.antidotelive.studio/Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/screw-this-lets-try-something-else/id1863391095Postcode Search Tool (find collective action near you): https://www.antidotelive.studio/near-youLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgolding/Substack: https://mattgolding.substack.com/Rubber Republic https://www.rubberrepublic.com/—About Accidental Gods—We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass Our next Open Gathering offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme is 'FINDING YOUR SOUL'S PURPOSE' which will run on Sunday 22nd March 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member of Accidental Gods - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer one-to-one Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.

In a culture where age is, at best, ignored, how do we rebuild a cohort of genuine Elders fit for the rapid transitions of the 21st Century: those who can combine the wisdom of wide boundary perspectives with the humility that allows flexibility of thinking, feeling and being? This is one of the core questions of our time and this week's guest is working to find answers. Alain Gauthier is co-founder and coordinator of the Regenerative Elder Process at the Elders Action Network. With John Izzo, he is co-host of The Way Forward Regenerative Conversations podcast and over his long life, he has been an international consultant, facilitator, coach, researcher-educator, and author. His book Actualising Evolutionary Co-Leadership: To Evolve a Creative and Responsible Society was published in 2014 - and is only available on Kindle (sorry) - but it is nonetheless a fascinating and inspiring read. A graduate from HEC (Paris), with an MBA from Stanford University, Alain was once a senior consultant at McKinsey & Company, As you'll hear, a life-changing experience led him to co-found Core Leadership Development in Oakland, California and to focus his professional work on developing co-leadership, partnering and coaching capabilities. Now in his eighties and as an elder, he devotes his time to co-creating conditions for elders to explore how they can live a regenerative life and collaborate with younger generations in transforming education and community life.  Over the last seven years, he has been an active member of the Elders Action Network (EAN), where he initially led a visionary planning process and now co-leads the Regenerative Elder Process (REP) – which, this April (2026) is offering for the seventh time an in-depth exploration called Embodying Regenerative Worldviews. He co-leads the REP Community and is a member of the Advisory Council of Elders Rising, EAN’s educational arm. This was a rich, deep and heart-felt podcast.  Enjoy!LinksElders Action Network https://eldersaction.org/Regenerative Elders Process https://eldersaction.org/regenerative-elder-processIntroductory Exploration of Regenerative Elder Process https://sutra.co/space/2eqo2s/register - New Cohort April 2026 Alain's book (only on Kindle) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Actualizing-Evolutionary-Co-Leadership-Creative-Responsible-ebook/dp/B00JE4FRHY/The Way Forward Regenerative Conversations Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-way-forward-regenerative-conversations/id1651941803Peter Senge's Centre for Systems Awareness https://systemsawareness.org/person/peter-senge/Jeff Carreira’s Mystery School https://mysteryschool-memberscircle.com/Otto Scharmer’s Presencing Institute https://www.presencing.org/About Accidental Gods - What we offer. We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass If you'd like to join our next Open Gathering offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme, it's 'FINDING YOUR SOUL'S PURPOSE' on Sunday 22nd March 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer one-to-one Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.

What is Integral Altruism and how could it crowd-source the answers to our meta crisis?  It's a while since I learned about 'reverse mentoring': a young person mentoring someone of an older generation. The idea really took hold, so when a mutual friend connected Jonas Søvik and me, I knew I'd found someone from whom I could learn a huge amount about life, ideas, thoughts and how the world feels in circles I would otherwise never reach.Jonas and I have been exploring all this together for the past 18 months and every conversation leaves me buzzing with the potential of new doors opening and new senses unfolding, and how could we not share something so rich?  And so here we are, a day after his 27th birthday, with Jonas now in Blackpool, working at the Effective Altruism Hotel, which is, in itself, a significant step outside the predatory capital model. Jonas Søvik is a coach, self-exploration and wisdom enthusiast, currently serving on the board of EA Denmark, and at the EA Hotel, helping to restructure and expand the organization/community to serve the EA community and the wider world. He is also building courses to help us all gain more control of our screen time.  He swims in similar waters to this podcast - interested in the metacrisis, particularly as framed by Daniel Schmachtenberger and Nate Hagens, integral altruism, Life Itself, Learning Planet, John Vervaeke's work on modern wisdom, regenerative thinking, Game B, Liminal Web - & most things related in that field. This was one of those conversations where we were both freewheeling, thinking in real time, asking questions as they arose.  It's alive, and electric and takes us both to new places. I hope it leaves you feeling as optimistic as it did me.  Enjoy! Jonas' Website https://www.coachingforhuman.com/Integral Altrusim https://www.integralaltruism.com/John Vervaeke's TEDx Talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKvRUfZ_u1oJonathan Rowson: The Flip, The Formation, The Fun https://jonathanrowson.substack.com/p/the-flip-the-formation-and-the-funEffective Altruism https://www.effectivealtruism.org/About the EA Hotel in Blackpool https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/ah6rXHq8qqz7nNrFE/ceealar-has-a-new-executive-directorEvolving Effective Altruism blog https://thewiderangle.substack.com/p/evolving-effective-altruism-dialogueAbout Accidental Gods - What we offer. We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass If you'd like to join our next Open Gathering offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme, it's 'FINDING YOUR SOUL'S PURPOSE' on Sunday 22nd March 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer one-to-one Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.

In this podcast Manda dives deep into the nature of fear, what it is and how we might find our own resources, resilience and capacity to work with the parts that catch our attention.  Given this, it is recommended that you listen at a time and place where you can give it full attention.We believe that we are in a time of total transformation and the potential is enormous - if enough of us can do the work to free up the stuck parts inside so that we can be fully present, fully able to respond to the needs of every moment as it arises.  Nobody is suggesting this is easy work, but it is absolutely the work of this moment. If we can all free up our stuck places so that our connections between all parts of ourselves, ourselves and each other, ourselves and the Web of Life are free and fluid - then we can begin to step into what's ours to do in the moment, rather than rehashing old stories of old hurts - that may not be ours, but may be inherited from the generations that have gone before. We need not to pass them on, but more than that, we need to be able to connect in real time with all that's around us in an ever-changing world.  [For those of you who attended the Gathering Honouring Fear as your Mentor that Manda taught earlier this month, this podcast is designed both to cement the teachings of that Gathering and open them up to our wider group of listeners.]Manda's recommended reading from the Winter Solstice 2025  https://accidentalgods.life/word-magic-2025-accidental-gods-pick-of-fiction-non-fiction-poetry-and-podcasts-through-the-year/Nature and Neuroscience - 'mouse/almond blossom study' https://www.nature.com/articles/nn.3594Scientific American precis of the study https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fearful-memories-passed-down/About Accidental Gods - What we offer. We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass Honouring Fear as our Mentor was the February Gathering  offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme. If you'd like to join us in future, our next Gathering is 'FINDING YOUR SOUL'S PURPOSE' which will be held on Sunday 22nd March 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer 121 Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.

What is a Network State and how does the concept matter in relation to the Trump administration's attempts to take Greenland - and their 'peace' proposals in Gaza and Ukraine?  This is the question I asked the transnational legal expert Dr Andrea Leiter: Who is trying to set up legal structure that mandate for No Death, No Taxes and No Democracy? And why might the rest of us end up dead or enslaved (I'll leave you to work out which you think is worse) - because as with any fascist enterprise, there will be the in-group that is protected but not constrained and the out-group that is constrained but not protected and if you're listening to this podcast, the chances of your being in the in-group are vanishingly small. So we ended up discussing Balaji Srinivasan's concepts of the Network State - and no, I have not linked to the book or the website in the show notes: if you want them, you can search.  I have, however, linkedto the ideas of the Co-ordiNations put forward by Primavera de Filippi and, of course, there's the ongoing Bioregional work being conducted by Joe Brewer and others: the merging of these two feels to me a good way forward if we're to get rid of the current Hobbesian concepts of a Nation State - which is, for sure, pretty outdated. For those who want background, Andrea works at the intersection of law, digital transformation, and economic innovation. Director of Amsterdam Center for International Law, she’s deeply aware of, and involved in, Transnational Law, Digital Economies & Institutional Innovation, all things crypto – as well as being a Social Justice Entrepreneur. She currently leads a Dutch Research Council-funded VENI project on Decentralised Autonomous Organisations (DAOs) and their potential to reshape economic governance from below.So here we go: a radical ride through the forest of nationhood: what it is, why it matters and how we could craft something so much better than what we have now - without the nightmare of fascist police states. Andrea on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrea-leiter/Amsterdam Centre for International Law https://acil.uva.nl/%20VENI%20project%20https://www.nwo.nl/en/researchprogrammes/nwo-talent-programme/projects-veniPrimavera de Filipi https://pdefilippi.com/Coordinations https://blockchaingov.eu/coordi-nations-a-new-institutional-structure-for-global-cooperation/Network State ByLineTimes - Greenland Data Centres https://bylinetimes.com/2026/02/03/pro-trump-ai-giants-pushed-greenland-expansion-weeks-before-trumps-bid-to-seize-the-island/Quinn Solobdian - Crack up Capitalism https://blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/product/Crack-Up-Capitalism-by-Quinn-Slobodian/9780241460245ExoCapitalism ExoCapitalism: Economies with Absolutely No Limits by Marek Poliks & Roberto Alonso TrilloEconomic Space Agency Protocols for Post Capitalist Expression Protocols for Post-Capitalist Expression by Dick Bryan, Jorge López & Akseli Virtanen About Accidental Gods - What we offer. We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass If you'd like to join our next Open Gathering offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme, it's 'FINDING YOUR SOUL'S PURPOSE' on Sunday 22nd March 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer 121 Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.

As we crest the wave of the Great Transformation, we have choices: we can crash into chaos and extinction - or we can step into our birthright as fully conscious nodes in the Web of Life, offering the astonishing creativity of humanity in service to life. We've said this on the podcast often, but it's not often that we speak with someone whose entire life is given to helping people step into our birthright, to opening the doors of what we might call Nature Connection, but is so much deeper than this -  so that anyone, of any age or circumstance can step forward into whatever it is that our birthright becomes in the twenty-first century. Our guest this week does just this. I've known of Jon Young for decades, heard of his 8 Shields practice and have friends who have trained in his Art of Mentoring, but it was only this last September that we met in person and I was struck by the deep inner stillness he brings to everything he does, the sense that his awareness stretches out across space and through time and he's listening to layers upon layers of meaning. Jon Young is a deep nature-people-self connection researcher, mentor, naturalist, wildlife tracker, author, consultant, and storyteller. Mentored by his grandmothers, Tom Brown, Jr., and a host of elders and experts, he has spent over 40 years leading the field of nature-based community building. His work explores the impact of nature on mentoring, human intelligence, spirituality, well-being, and development, influencing tens of thousands worldwide. He is the author and co-author of seminal works such as What the Robin Knows and Coyote's Guide to Connecting to Nature, and has appeared in documentaries including The Animal Communicator. In 2016, he received the Champion of Environmental Education Award for his innovative and globally impactful contributions to the nature connection movement.So, with all of this as our baseline, it was an honour and a delight to dive deep with Jon into the history and lineages of his learning, of his views of where we are now, and of how we can best navigate this moment of collapse and renewal. https://www.livingconnection1st.net/https://www.jonyoung.orghttps://www.livingconnection1st.net/pages/resourcesJon's TEDx TalkThe Animal CommunicatorSign up for the Living Connection 1st newsletterPaul Hawken's Blessed UnrestKarl Direske's site https://wildernessfusion.com/About Accidental Gods - What we offer. We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass If you'd like to join our next Open Gathering offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme, it's 'FINDING YOUR SOUL'S PURPOSE' on Sunday 22nd March 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer 121 Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.

As we move towards Total Systemic Change, shifting from the death cult of predatory capitalism towards a future we'd actually be proud to leave behind, our absolute baseline non-negotiable foundations must be Clean Air, Clean Water, Clean Soil. We talk a lot about regenerative agriculture on this podcast, and how we can rebuild living soils from the inert growing media we've created in the hellscapes of Industrial Agriculture.  One day, we'll talk about Clean Air.  Today, we're talking about water, that utterly essential part of our biological and spiritual lives.  It should be clean. It should be safe to drink, to swim in, for us and all the species with whom we share our beautiful blue pearl of a watery planet. As we all know… it's not.  It's not because our system values profit over the vibrancy of life. It's not because people in suits have found that if they treat our rivers as open sewers and our oceans as waste dumps they can get away with it.  It's not because for too long, we've believed the stories that say there is no alternative and this is the way the world has to be. But the masks are coming off and activism is increasingly being seen as an act of radical, necessary resistance that can bring people together, bridging across the false, toxic cultural divides that the establishment creates so that we fight ourselves instead of working towards a world founded on different values.  The push for clean water is one of the most unifying drives we have.  It doesn't matter where you are on the political spectrum, you don't vote for sewage to be poured into the rivers, for the dead zones in the oceans to grow and join up, for the rain to be full of forever toxins so that some suit in a company C-suites can buy themselves a new private jet and an invitation to Jeffrey Epstein's private parties. In the UK, we're in an almost unique position because back in the 80s, Margaret Thatcher saw Pinochet privatising the water and sewage companies in Chile and decided this was a fine idea and imported it wholesale to the UK. Our water and sewage companies were privatised at a steal in 1989 and pretty much everyone is agreed this is an incredibly bad idea. Except successive governments.  So people got together and formed their own activist groups based around the rivers near them - there's always at least one - and they are conducting citizen science, holding people's assemblies and generally making enough of a nuisance of themselves that those in power have to take notice.  All this being the case, it's World Water Day on March 22nd every year and this year - we're recording in 2026 for those of you who listen years later - we're talking to Claire Kirby co-founder of Up Sewage Creek and a member of the Sewage Campaign Network.  I first met Claire when my last dog was young - so nearly 20 years ago.  She has a degree in Environmental Science from King's College London and then went on to become a Pet Behaviour Specialist who used to run rather wonderful puppy training classes.  In 2020, following an episode of this podcast, she undertook a training with Trust the People and went on to co-found Up Sewage Creek, an activist group based around the River Severn in Shrewsbury on the borders between England and Wales.  More recently, she has become an active part of the Sewage Campaign Network and is actively campaigning against the latest Government White Paper on the Water Industry which as much of a greenwash/whitewash as you'd expect.  This was a lively conversation, a lot of it focussed on the situation in England, mainly because we live here and it's pretty bad.  But wherever you are in the world, you have water somewhere near you and I guarantee it's not clean - and there will be people around you who care that it become cleaner.  Clearly if you're in a war zone, even if it's an as-yet undeclared civil war, this is not your highest priority and I really do want to honour the people of Minnesota, Maine and Oregon who are taking to the streets in freezing weather to face the Terrorist gangs unleashed by the US government. You have other things to think about than the quality of your water, though not far away in Flint, Michigan, there is one of the most egregious failures of local politics ever to express itself in the quality of the water, so this is clearly a universal problem.   We each do what we can. For those of us not facing pepper spray, uniting our communities so that nobody is ever prepared to join up to the government's shock troops might be the front line.  If testing water is your thing, please do it.  And to find out how and why to connect and converge, let's talk to Claire Kirby of Up Sewage Creek. LinksWorld Water Day https://www.unwater.org/our-work/world-water-dayCastCo https://castco.org/Trust the People https://www.trustthepeople.earth/Top of the Poops (!)  - to help you connect with your MP https://top-of-the-poops.org/constituenciesSewage Campaign Network https://www.sewagecampaignnetwork.org.uk/Up Sewage Creek https://www.upsewagecreek.com/USC on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/upsewagecreekhttps://www.windrushwasp.org/single-post/new-vision-for-water-a-mirage-or-worse?cid=1dfba32d-7702-4cde-974a-08a8580126ffLeft Foot Forward Article https://leftfootforward.org/2026/01/public-ownership-of-water-is-the-only-way-to-deliver-security-efficiency-investment-and-value-for-money/National Security Briefing on BioDiversity Loss in the UK https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nature-security-assessment-on-global-biodiversity-loss-ecosystem-collapse-and-national-securityOther Accidental Gods water-related podcasts River Dôn Project Tim Smedley 'The Last Drop'BooksDrinkable Rivers - https://drinkablerivers.org/drinkable-rivers-book/About Accidental Gods If you'd like to support us, come along and join the Accidental Gods Membership. Here, you can share in the ideas, the programme that will help you connect to the Web of Life in ways that will last—and you can come to the Gatherings half price. Or if that doesn't appeal, come along to one of the Gatherings. Or buy a subscription/Gathering for a friend... do something that feels like a good exchange of energy and minimises our connection with old economic paradigm. Remember that if any of this is difficult, contact us and we'll find something that works for you. Details below: We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river:

In the midst of collapse, as we watch our governments lay waste to our social agreements, it can be hard to imagine extending the franchise of legal rights to Nature and the More than Human world.  And yet, if we're to transcend this moment, it must be because we have become something other than we are now - and to do this, we need the roadmaps that show us how to move through, and beyond, the collapse of the old into something new. We spoke to Ally Pimor about this a couple of weeks ago and when I first met her, I also met this week's guest and they had so much to say that I wanted to talk to each of them.  So with this in mind, this week's guest is Brontie Ansell, the founder and co-director of Lawyers for Nature. Brontie founded Lawyers for Nature in 2019 with the (fairly infamous) barrister Paul Powlesland, they are a collective of lawyers who act to represent Nature. They reimagine the law for Nature and advocate for Nature to be given legal rights through education, Nature centric governance, consultancy, research and advocacy. Last year Lawyers for Nature were behind the We Are Nature campaign that sought to change the dictionary definition of Nature at the Oxford English Dictionary to include humans as part of Nature. Brontie was one of the key legal architects behind the Nature on the Board project at Faith in Nature and she was the first human to act as the Nature Guardian speaking on behalf of Nature at the company Faith in Nature, giving Nature a voice and a vote on a corporate board for the first time in history. She then went on to design the legal apparatus to appoint Nature and the voice of future generations to the board of House of Hackney, a company that credits Nature as their most important muse. Most recently she was advising the Comisiwn Seilwaith Cenedlaethol Cymru/National Infrastructure Commission for Wales on their Nature Representation pilot. She features heavily in both Simeon Rose's new book Nature's Boardroom and Frieda Gormley's book In the Company of Nature. She has been a lecturer in law for 15 years, most recently at the University of Essex where she was an associate professor at Essex Law School. Brontie has taught courses on Rights of Nature, climate justice, employment law and land law. Her work is informed by the global rights of nature movement and she is grateful to all who came before her to create the bedrock for work she does. Brontie talks to me about what a society could look like if we really reformed the meaning of ‘justice for all’, and started to understand Nature and aspects of Nature as a subject of law.Because of the times we're in, I felt I could not ignore the shocking events that occurred in America this past week week and so we started with a quote from Elliott Morris and Strength in Numbers, which I was confusing with another organisation - Strength in Numbers is, in fact, a Substack blog -  well worth reading. I've put a link in the show notes, along with a few others that I think are worth adding to your must-read list every morning.  Last week - with his permission - I read a bit from one of these, by Oliver Kornetzke as part of the intro (hi Ollie if you're still listening!). I'm not going to make a habit of this every week, but I want to read something from Jackie Summers blog, Field Notes for Cracking An Empire, where she says, “If you’ve been reading my work for the last few years, none of this should be surprising. The old narratives are gone. This is what fascism looks like in real time. First, ICE agents killed Renee Nicole Good, a white woman. Now they’ve murdered Alex Jeffrey Pretti, a 37-year-old US citizen. A nurse with no criminal record. White women’s bodies were supposed to be sacrosanct. Respectable professionals were supposed to be “off-limits.” That’s no longer the case. For Black people, this country has always been fascist. What’s new is who else is inside the blast radius. The Venn diagram of “safe” and “endangered” is now a circle. If you’re shaken, it’s not just grief. It’s narrative whiplash. The distance between “this can’t happen” and “it just did, on camera” no longer exists. You have choices. You can either cling to the lie and let someone else keep paying. Or pay the cost of updating the story about this country. About who is “safe,” about what you’re willing to do now that protections are gone. I’ve said it before, the empire can handle outrage. It has no defense against empathy at scale. Outrage spikes, trends, and fades. Empathy—“it can be me; it already is them”—changes what people are willing to risk and protect. This is recruitment by atrocity. Your blood spilled red in the streets, just like ours. It shouldn’t take this. It always has."There follows one of the most cogent, clear, useful, grounded lists of how we can all join what has been called well-organised Anarchists. And if that's what we are, I'm not sure that's bad.  At the end, Jackie writes - If you’re going out, your first job is coming home. If you’re staying home, your first job is staying human.  I'm writing this from the privilege and safety of a rural home in the UK.  Wherever you are in the world, please look after each other. And for ideas on how we can transcend this moment, to start reimagining a world which sees us as humans who reconnect with each other and with Nature, and give Nature the rights it deserves to thrive, please listen on to Brontie Ansell and her beautiful models of Quiet Romance, Care, Guardianship and justice for all life. Linkshttps://www.lawyersfornature.com/https://immersives.pioneerspost.com/lawyers-leading-nature/index.htmlhttps://greenallianceblog.org.uk/2022/09/22/giving-nature-a-seat-on-the-board-is-a-powerful-way-to-make-sure-businesses-protect-our-environment/https://nationalinfrastructurecommission.wales/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/NICW_NOTB_LFN-Final-Report.pdfhttps://www.houseofhackney.com/pages/nature-our-directorhttps://www.natureontheboard.com/https://bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/professional-business/natures-boardroomhttps://www.waterstones.com/book/in-the-company-of-nature/frieda-gormley/9781645023500https://www.ukrightsofnature.org/https://wearenature.org/