Sober but Still Angry? With Zach Brittle

What happens when the drinking stops but the anger stays? Sonia welcomes Zach Brittle, LMHC, Certified Gottman Therapist, Relational Life Therapist, and host of Marriage Therapy Radio. Why can resentment linger after quitting alcohol? How can someone take responsibility without taking all the blame? What happens when partners get sober at different times? Sonia and Zach explore recovery, relationship boundaries, and rebuilding trust beyond counting drinks or sober days. Zach explains his approach to the “wise adult,” pausing before reacting, and playing the movie forward. He describes how Relational Life Therapy connects self-esteem, boundaries, and intimacy, and why having communication tools differs from being ready to use them. Sonia also asks about the difference between celebrating recovery and becoming overconfident. From asking for help during the pandemic to confronting longstanding resentment, Zach shares the experiences behind his recovery. An unforgettable Christmas tree stand, a frustrating gas-station queue, and his and Rebecca’s different paths to sobriety reveal how change has reshaped their marriage and parenting. This is Sisters in Sobriety, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol. Check out our substack for extra tips, tricks and resources. Zach’s Links Website Instagram Marriage Therapy Radio SIS Links 💌 Sisters In Sobriety Substack – where the magic (and the mocktail recipes) happen 📬 Sisters In Sobriety Email 📸 Sisters In Sobriety Instagram 🌐 Kathleen’s Website Kathleen does not endorse any products mentioned in this podcast 📸 Kathleen’s Instagram Episode Highlights 00:00 — Introducing Zach Brittle 02:00 — Recovery beyond alcohol 04:00 — Recognizing personal relapse risks 08:00 — Drinking escalates during COVID 10:00 — Asking for a sponsor’s help 13:00 — Taking inventory of resentment 15:00 — Owning his anger without alcohol 18:00 — Responsibility versus self-blame 20:00 — Anger in the gas-station queue 22:00 — The pause that creates choice 25:00 — Playing the movie forward 27:00 — Recovery becomes a new way of living 29:00 — A milestone tests his sobriety 33:00 — Why tools alone aren’t enough 35:00 — Self-esteem, boundaries, and intimacy 40:00 — Partners on different recovery paths 46:00 — Setting relationship boundaries 47:00 — Alcohol’s impact beyond drink counts 49:00 — Connection, fun, and life after drinking 56:00 — Modeling recovery for adult children

On Sisters in Sobriety, Sonia welcomes relationship coach, author, and podcast host Monica Tanner to explore conflict, emotional safety, and intimacy when alcohol is no longer the escape hatch. Together, they explore how to ask for support, navigate difficult conversations, and reconnect through change. Does “never go to bed angry” actually help? When does communication become criticism? What happens when drinking or scrolling becomes a way to disappear during conflict? Sonia and Monica explore resentment, sober relationships, and talking about sex without turning the conversation into a performance. Monica introduces relational life therapy concepts, including protective childhood patterns, the emotional “whoosh,” and choosing a response with greater awareness. She shares examples of clear requests, healthy boundaries, side-by-side intimacy conversations, and small routines that create space for connection. Monica also shares how her parents’ divorce shaped her interest in relationships, why late-night arguments brought up fears of abandonment, and how a simple request for reassurance changed those moments in her marriage. Her son’s approaching wedding became the inspiration for her book. This is Sisters in Sobriety, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol. Check out our substack for extra tips, tricks and resources. Monica’s Links 🌐 Monica Tanner’s Website 🎙️ Secrets of Happily Ever After Podcast 📖 Bad Marriage Advice SIS Links 💌 Sisters In Sobriety Substack – where the magic (and the mocktail recipes) happen 📬 Sisters In Sobriety Email 📸 Sisters In Sobriety Instagram 🌐 Kathleen’s Website Kathleen does not endorse any products mentioned in this podcast 📸 Kathleen’s Instagram Timestamped Highlights 01:00 — Meet relationship coach Monica Tanner. 02:00 — The divorce that reshaped her idea of marriage. 04:00 — Rethinking “never go to bed angry.” 06:00 — Asking for reassurance before taking a break. 08:00 — Relationship maintenance before a crisis. 11:00 — Why conflict can block familiar communication skills. 14:00 — Recognizing protective patterns and boundaries. 16:00 — Teaching a partner how to love you well. 18:00 — Small requests before resentment builds. 20:00 — Asking for listening instead of solutions. 23:00 — Making requests without criticism. 25:00 — Withdrawal, fawning, and old survival strategies. 26:00 — Sonia on alcohol, conflict, and getting sober. 28:00 — Withdrawing in plain sight. 30:00 — Pausing during the emotional “whoosh.” 34:00 — Making space for conversations about sex. 38:00 — Exploring a broader definition of intimacy. 41:00 — When deeper relationship problems need help first. 45:00 — Monica’s routines for regular connection. 46:00 — Couples work, intensives, and closing reflections.

In this episode of Sisters in Sobriety, Sonia explores the invisible work adult daughters perform to keep families connected. With communication scholar, Baylor professor and Good Daughtering author Dr. Allison M. Alford. Dr. Alford helps women recognize how family roles can shape self-worth, perfectionism, resentment and coping. Why are daughters so often expected to organize, anticipate needs and smooth over conflict? How do culture, birth order and family expectations influence daughtering? And why can a son receive enormous praise for a small gesture while a daughter feels she is always falling short? Dr. Alford defines daughtering as the mental, emotional, logistical and identity work daughters do for their families. She explains how to make that labor visible, establish boundaries without turning them into ultimatums, distinguish venting from rumination and replace impossible A+ expectations with a sustainable B+ standard. She also shares how her own family relationships changed when she stopped building connection around complaints and enlisted her husband, children and sister in creating new conversation patterns. Her message is simple: every woman is already a good-enough daughter and has agency in deciding how that role will fit into her life. This is Sisters in Sobriety, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol. Check out our substack for extra tips, tricks and resources. Dr. Alford’s Links 🌐 Daughtering 101 Website 📕 Good Daughtering 📸 Instagram SIS Links 💌 Sisters In Sobriety Substack – where the magic (and the mocktail recipes) happen 📬 Sisters In Sobriety Email 📸 Sisters In Sobriety Instagram 🌐 Kathleen’s Website Kathleen does not endorse any products mentioned in this podcast 📸 Kathleen’s Instagram Timestamped Highlights 01:00 — Dr. Allison Alford introduces her work on daughtering 05:00 — Defining the overlooked cost of being a good daughter 07:00 — Why women’s caring roles are so often called mothering 10:00 — Honoring daughterhood as a distinct part of identity 12:00 — Choosing how fully to show up in family roles 14:00 — Daughters as the behind-the-scenes family CEOs 16:00 — How daughter conditioning develops from childhood 18:00 — Why sons receive praise for exceeding lower expectations 22:00 — Culture, geography and privilege shape daughtering 24:00 — The unspoken rules daughters are expected to follow 27:00 — How impossible standards create a fog of failure 30:00 — Creating a personal B+ daughter rubric 32:00 — The relationship between resentment and self-abandonment 34:00 — Boundaries as fences around emotional and physical space 36:00 — Recognizing when family venting becomes rumination 38:00 — Communicating a boundary once—and following through 40:00 — Making invisible daughtering labor visible 43:00 — Building a Plan B for healthier family conversations 46:00 — Eldest and only daughters face distinct pressures 50:00 — Every daughter gets to decide what “good enough” means

In this episode of Sisters in Sobriety, Sonia explores the connection between sobriety, creativity, and reinvention with Kerri Maher, the USA Today bestselling author of The Paris Bookseller and The Kennedy Debutante. Kerri discusses her four years of sobriety and her deeply personal new novel, Summer of Love, set in California and centered on addiction, family, recovery, and hope. What happens when someone’s drinking does not produce a cinematic rock bottom, but no longer feels sustainable? How can people find recovery support outside traditional 12-step programs? Sonia and Kerri discuss sober identity, online community, emotional sobriety, belonging, and the many different paths people can take toward changing their relationship with alcohol. Kerri explains how The Luckiest Club helped her find her people, why sobriety and writing are both daily practices, and how greater clarity changed her creative and professional decisions. She also shares how The Artist’s Way, morning pages, artist dates, and an “adjacent art” with no pressure attached helped her develop Summer of Love. Kerri’s story reveals a quieter, joyful vision of recovery: clear mornings, renewed confidence, richer emotions, and the freedom to experience places such as Napa beyond their drinking culture. She also reflects on generational addiction, “good girl” identity, sober travel, and writing a novel that allows recovery to be hopeful rather than punishing. This is Sisters in Sobriety, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol. Check out our substack for extra tips, tricks and resources. Kerri’s Links 📚 Summer of Love 📸 Instagram: @kerrimaherwriter SIS Links 💌 Sisters In Sobriety Substack – where the magic (and the mocktail recipes) happen 📬 Sisters In Sobriety Email 📸 Sisters In Sobriety Instagram 🌐 Kathleen’s Website Kathleen does not endorse any products mentioned in this podcast 📸 Kathleen’s Instagram Timestamped Highlights 01:00 — Kerri introduces her sobriety and Summer of Love 04:00 — The small moments that made Kerri question her drinking 05:00 — An early 15-to-18-month period without alcohol 08:00 — How The Luckiest Club began and became Kerri’s community 10:00 — Finding accessible support during the sandwich-generation years 14:00 — Is recovery’s “special sauce” the program or the community? 17:00 — Emotional sobriety, anger management, and continued inner work 19:00 — Writing and sobriety as practices built through repetition 21:00 — How alcohol created subtle brain fog without stopping productivity 26:00 — The personal origins of Summer of Love 28:00 — Morning pages bring the book’s characters and plot together 31:00 — Watercolor play as relaxing, pressure-free creativity 33:00 — Writing about recovery as joyful rather than punishing 35:00 — Clear mornings and dependable presence as everyday sober joy 43:00 — Exploring generational patterns of addiction 46:00 — Looking beyond wine culture in Napa Valley 49:00 — Rediscovering California through food, landscape, and connection 53:00 — Sober travel and experiencing mornings without a hangover 54:00 — Kerri’s message to sober and sober-curious readers 55:00 — Closing the conversation

On this episode of Sisters in Sobriety, Sonia explores how alcohol-free drinks can become meaningful rituals rather than consolation prizes with bestselling author and mixologist Julia Halina Hadas, whose book Mystical Mocktails combines zero-proof recipes with intention, connection and everyday magic. What makes a mocktail feel complete? How can flavor, aroma, temperature and glassware change the experience? Julia explains why people often seek more than alcohol from a drink—and how a thoughtfully made alternative can offer beauty, pleasure and social connection without the buzz. The conversation covers practical building blocks such as citrus, sweeteners, tea, coconut water, herbs, spices and garnishes. Julia shares how mint can suggest renewal, maple and black tea can feel grounding, and rose can represent connection. She also explains how to prevent watery tea-based drinks, balance sweetness and acidity, order creatively at a bar and pair affirmations with the physical act of drinking. Julia also reflects on pregnancy, her husband’s sobriety and the importance of recognizing when alcohol-removed products feel triggering. She shares how creating her Rose of Remembrance recipe unexpectedly helped her process grief following her father’s death—showing how an intentional drink can hold memory, emotion and healing. This is Sisters in Sobriety, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol. Check out our substack for extra tips, tricks and resources. Julia’s Links Website: WitchCraft Cocktails Instagram: @witchcraftcocktail Book: Mystical Mocktails SIS Links 💌 Sisters In Sobriety Substack – where the magic (and the mocktail recipes) happen 📬 Sisters In Sobriety Email 📸 Sisters In Sobriety Instagram 🌐 Kathleen’s Website Kathleen does not endorse any products mentioned in this podcast 📸 Kathleen’s Instagram Timestamped highlights 01:00 — Meet bestselling author and mixologist Julia Halina Hadas 02:00 — Making zero-proof drinks before nonalcoholic spirits were widely available 04:00 — Seeking connection and a change in feeling through drinks 06:00 — Bringing herbs and intention into mixology 07:00 — Magic, spirituality and reclaiming personal power 09:00 — Using maple and black tea to create a grounding drink 11:00 — The Rose of Remembrance recipe and processing grief 12:00 — Why yuzu can transform an alcohol-free drink 14:00 — How garnishes and aroma elevate the experience 17:00 — Mint, cucumber, strawberry, basil and rose as intentional ingredients 20:00 — Preventing tea-based mocktails from becoming watery 22:00 — Adding cardamom, cinnamon, nutmeg and clove 25:00 — The color-changing magic of butterfly pea flower 27:00 — Tea ceremonies, presence and the Jasmine Peace Potion 30:00 — Making drink preparation part of a personal ritual 32:00 — Why glassware can make an ordinary moment feel special 35:00 — The cup as a symbol of what a person welcomes into their life 39:00 — Pairing affirmations with the physical act of drinking 47:00 — How to order a more interesting mocktail at a bar 56:00 — Protecting sobriety when alcohol-removed drinks feel triggering

Midlife can make a woman feel as though her body has suddenly changed the rules—but those changes are not a personal failure, and they are not “just aging.” In this episode of Sisters in Sobriety, Sonia and Kathleen help unpack the relationship between perimenopause, metabolic health, alcohol, blood sugar, stress and movement with Dr. Shawna Darou, ND. A naturopathic doctor with more than 20 years of experience, Dr. Darou translates complex women’s health information into clear, practical steps for building strength and vitality through midlife and beyond. Why does alcohol suddenly hit harder in midlife? What do belly weight, brain fog, disrupted sleep, afternoon fatigue and persistent food noise reveal about insulin resistance? How can women use GLP-1 medications and continuous glucose monitors more responsibly—and why can excessive fasting or carbohydrate restriction backfire? The conversation also explores sugar cravings in early sobriety, chronic stress, menopause and the habits that support long-term metabolic health. Dr. Darou explains why menopause is a metabolic transition, not only an estrogen transition; how alcohol interrupts nighttime blood sugar regulation and fat oxidation; and why muscle acts as a “metabolic sink.” She shares a realistic starting point: prioritize protein, add daily movement, walk after meals and build strength gradually. Flexible consistency, proper recovery and movement that feels genuinely enjoyable matter more than perfection. Dr. Darou also shares her unexpected evolution from engineer to naturopathic doctor—and from someone who did not identify as an athlete to a competitive runner who began racing at 50. Her story challenges narrow ideas about aging and shows how confidence, community and ambitious new goals can emerge later in life. This is Sisters in Sobriety, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol. Check out our substack for extra tips, tricks and resources. Timestamp Highlights 01:00 — Meet Dr. Shawna Darou 02:00 — From engineering to women’s health 05:00 — The pandemic’s metabolic impact 06:00 — Movement as a longevity lever 07:00 — Becoming an athlete at 49 09:00 — Why women over 40 need new possibilities 13:00 — Metabolic health beyond weight 15:00 — Early signs of metabolic dysfunction 17:00 — How insulin resistance fuels cravings 18:00 — Reversing dysfunction without diet culture 20:00 — GLP-1 benefits and risks 23:00 — Why midlife changes the rules 26:00 — Using a continuous glucose monitor responsibly 32:00 — Chronic stress and blood sugar 35:00 — What alcohol does metabolically 38:00 — Why alcohol hits harder in midlife 39:00 — Sugar cravings in early recovery 41:00 — The “yes with a boundary” approach 47:00 — Protein and post-meal movement 56:00 — Flexible consistency, intensity and recovery Dr. Darou’s Links Website — www.drshawnadarou.com Instagram — @drshawnadarou SIS Links 💌 Sisters In Sobriety Substack – where the magic (and the mocktail recipes) happen 📬 Sisters In Sobriety Email 📸 Sisters In Sobriety Instagram 🌐 Kathleen’s Website Kathleen does not endorse any products mentioned in this podcast 📸 Kathleen’s Instagram

What happens when alcohol feels like the only way to become comfortable in your own skin? In this episode, Sonia is joined by Braunwyn Spinner, advocate, mother of seven, and former Real Housewives of Orange County cast member whose sobriety unfolded in public. How can someone go years without alcohol and still have a serious drinking problem? What changes when a social life—and a television career—is built around drinking? Braunwyn and Sonia explore relapse, alcohol withdrawal, AA and the 12 steps, sober socializing, queer recovery spaces, codependency, parenting, and the difference between avoiding alcohol and developing emotional sobriety. They also ask why getting sober can initially feel worse, how to identify the “fun limit,” and what it means to choose recovery when relationships and routines begin to change. Their conversation makes clear that alcohol dependence is not defined only by how often a person drinks, but by what happens after the first drink. They discuss why heavy withdrawal should never be attempted alone, how independent transportation and an exit plan can protect early sobriety, and why repeatedly stopping for a few days can mean reliving the hardest stage again and again. Recovery can include community, boundaries, therapy, medication, and learning to recognize the restless “wanting” beneath substitute compulsions. Braunwyn also shares the deeply personal story behind her first drink at 14, the moment in Miami that ended her drinking, and the sober producer who helped get her into an AA meeting when she planned to relapse. She opens up about realizing she was gay in sobriety, leaving a decades-long marriage, co-parenting, becoming more present with her children, surviving a mental health crisis, returning to television, and loosening the hold of beauty standards and the male gaze. This is Sisters in Sobriety, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol. Check out our substack for extra tips, tricks and resources. Highlights 00:01 – Braunwyn introduces herself in a new chapter as Braunwyn Spinner 00:02 – Why her first drink made her feel comfortable in her skin 00:04 – The difference between abstinence and working a recovery program 00:05 – Why time between drinks does not rule out alcohol addiction 00:07 – How reality television accelerated her drinking 00:09 – The “God shot” that told her drinking had to end 00:12 – Sonia’s final drink and the unexpected day sobriety began 00:14 – What the first 30 days can feel like 00:16 – The sober producer who helped save Braunwyn’s life 00:19 – Finding comfort instead of judgment in AA 00:21 – Sobriety, stillness, and realizing she was gay 00:23 – Protecting early recovery with a private room, car, and exit plan 00:24 – Recognizing the sober “fun limit” 00:27 – Braunwyn’s first sober kiss with a woman 00:29 – How sobriety exposed codependency and changed her marriage 00:34 – Parenting with presence and making living amends 00:36 – Why emotional health can feel worse before it gets better 00:38 – Queer identity, religious trauma, and addiction risk 00:42 – Recognizing substitute addictions and the feeling of “wanting” 00:52 – Why giving sobriety six weeks can change everything   Braunwyn's Links 📸 Instagram SIS Links 💌 Sisters In Sobriety Substack – where the magic (and the mocktail recipes) happen 📬 Sisters In Sobriety Email 📸 Sisters In Sobriety Instagram 🌐 Kathleen’s Website Kathleen does not endorse any products mentioned in this podcast 📸 Kathleen’s Instagram

Early sobriety can feel euphoric, terrifying, lonely and unexpectedly funny—sometimes all in the same day. In this episode of Sisters in Sobriety, Sonia and Kathleen explore what the first days and months without alcohol actually look like and share practical ways to manage cravings, triggers and life after rehab. They are joined by Heather Chappell and Zoe Kachan, host and co-host of Girl, Undrunk, the raw, unfiltered sobriety podcast that finds humor in the highs, lows and messiness of recovery. What happens when someone returns from rehab to the same apartment, routines and drinking cues they left behind? How do friendships change when alcohol is no longer the thing holding them together? Heather and Zoe discuss the “rehab high,” the fear of relapse, sober community, dating without alcohol and the surprising challenge of discovering who they are when drinking is no longer shaping their personalities. The conversation examines emotional sobriety, mental health and the slow work of developing coping skills that alcohol once replaced. Heather and Zoe explain how meetings, sponsorship, therapy, firm boundaries and supportive sober friendships helped them build safer lives. They also share simple approaches to cravings: staying in the present, following the possible consequences of a drink from beginning to end, leaving overwhelming situations and naming uncomfortable feelings out loud. Heather and Zoe also open up about the experiences that led them to treatment, from isolation and deteriorating health to job loss, a DUI and repeated hospital visits. Their stories continue beyond getting sober, revealing the anger, trauma and relationship patterns that resurfaced in recovery. An honest discussion of sober intimacy explores how the body can carry fear even when the mind feels safe—and why patience, communication and self-trust matter while learning to date and connect without alcohol. This is Sisters in Sobriety, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol. Check out our substack for extra tips, tricks and resources. Episode Highlights 02:00 Heather’s loneliness, anxiety and escalating drinking in New York 05:00 The call that finally took Heather to rehab 06:00 Zoe’s early drinking, drug use and need to fit in 09:00 A DUI, hospital visits and Zoe’s last attempt to start over 11:00 Leaving rehab and facing the first 90 days 12:00 Resisting an early craving at the dog park 13:00 Building a protective routine around high-risk hours 15:00 Discovering that personality and humor survive sobriety 17:00 Relearning adulthood after years of drinking 19:00 Mental health, emotional sobriety and alcohol as a coping mechanism 21:00 Meetings, sponsorship and rebuilding confidence 22:00 Therapy, anger and confronting the past without alcohol 24:00 Everyday triggers and rewiring the brain 26:00 Leaving unsafe situations and setting firm boundaries 29:00 How sobriety changes friendships 32:00 The chance meeting that brought Heather and Zoe together 40:00 Dating, relapse and protecting early recovery 44:00 Sober intimacy, dissociation and learning to trust the body 49:00 Day-one advice and how to name a craving Girl, Undrunk Links Instagram SIS Links 💌 Sisters In Sobriety Substack – where the magic (and the mocktail recipes) happen 📬 Sisters In Sobriety Email 📸 Sisters In Sobriety Instagram 🌐 Kathleen’s Website Kathleen does not endorse any products mentioned in this podcast 📸 Kathleen’s Instagram

Can unresolved emotional pain influence alcohol cravings, addictive behaviors, and the way the body experiences stress? In this episode of Sisters in Sobriety, Sonia speaks with Dr. Bradley Nelson, holistic physician and bestselling author of The Emotion Code, The Body Code, and The Heart Code, about his approach to identifying and releasing what he calls “trapped emotions.” Why can someone understand a harmful pattern and still feel unable to change it? Could addiction be less about the substance itself and more about an attempt to soothe emotional pain? Dr. Nelson shares his perspective on the subconscious mind, biofeedback, muscle testing, alcohol cravings, and the “heart wall”—a protective emotional barrier he believes can form after heartbreak, grief, trauma, or loss. The conversation explores how emotions may go unprocessed, how present-day triggers can connect with earlier experiences, and why Dr. Nelson views symptoms as messages rather than root causes. He demonstrates the sway test, explains the Emotion Code chart, and describes his process for narrowing down an emotion, deciding whether more context is needed, and using a magnet or hand movement to release it. These practices are presented as Dr. Nelson’s energy-healing framework and are not a substitute for evidence-based medical, mental health, or addiction care. Dr. Nelson also opens up about the childhood experiences that shaped his path, including a serious case of measles, kidney disease, and an early encounter with holistic practitioners in rural Montana. He traces the journey from computer programmer to chiropractor and shares stories that led him to connect physical symptoms, heartbreak, compulsive behavior, and emotional healing—including accounts involving chronic pain, food cravings, and alcohol use. This is Sisters in Sobriety, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol. Check out our substack for extra tips, tricks and resources. 00:00 — Dr. Bradley Nelson and the concept of trapped emotions 02:00 — Childhood healing experiences and belief in a higher power 05:00 — From computer programming to the healing arts 06:00 — Searching for the roots of patients’ symptoms 07:00 — Addiction as a response to emotional pain 09:00 — The subconscious mind as the body’s internal computer 11:00 — Muscle testing and yes-or-no biofeedback 13:00 — How emotions may become “trapped” in the body 16:00 — Emotional baggage, anxiety, PTSD, and addictive behavior 18:00 — The overflowing-glass metaphor for emotional pain 20:00 — How the “heart wall” may relate to addiction 22:00 — Why the heart is viewed as more than a pump 26:00 — A patient story connecting heartbreak and chronic neck pain 29:00 — Introducing the ring-in-ring method and sway test 36:00 — Using the Emotion Code chart to identify an emotion 38:00 — Closing an emotional “open loop” 42:00 — How emotional baggage may drive cravings 45:00 — A story about alcohol urges and releasing the heart wall 48:00 — True healing versus symptom relief 51:00 — A small next step and where to learn more Dr. Bradley's Links Instagram Website SIS Links 💌 Sisters In Sobriety Substack – where the magic (and the mocktail recipes) happen 📬 Sisters In Sobriety Email 📸 Sisters In Sobriety Instagram 🌐 Kathleen’s Website Kathleen does not endorse any products mentioned in this podcast 📸 Kathleen’s Instagram

Addiction treatment has not always been designed with women in mind—and that can profoundly shape how women experience recovery. In this episode of Sisters in Sobriety, Sonia is joined by Dr. Stephanie S. Covington, internationally recognized clinician, author, and pioneer in addiction and trauma treatment, whose groundbreaking work includes A Woman’s Way Through the Twelve Steps, Helping Women Recover, Beyond Trauma, and Awaken Your Sexuality. Why do traditional addiction treatment and Twelve Step programs sometimes fail to reflect women’s actual experiences? How are trauma, relationships, sexuality, shame, and addiction connected? Dr. Covington examines why recovery can look different for women, what conventional relapse prevention may overlook, and why community and connection are so essential. She also discusses the gaps in addiction treatment within jails and prisons, the importance of continuity of care after incarceration, and why she prefers the term “criminal legal system” over “criminal justice system.” The conversation breaks down the relationship between childhood trauma, genetics, emotional development, substance use, and relapse. Dr. Covington explains when trauma and addiction may need to be treated simultaneously, the difference between trauma-informed, trauma-responsive, and trauma-specific care, and the powerful shift from asking “What’s wrong with you?” to “What happened to you?” She also offers a gender-responsive perspective on the Twelve Steps, reframing concepts like the Fourth Step in ways that can reduce shame and help women see themselves more clearly in recovery. Sonia also gets personal about working the Twelve Steps nearly nine years into sobriety, feeling disconnected from the male-centered language of traditional AA literature, dating and having sex sober for the first time, and navigating conversations around “Cali sober” and mindful substance use. Dr. Covington shares her own early experiment with moderation, why she has no desire to test whether she could drink again, and a surprisingly simple “green beans” test that can reveal just how much power alcohol or another substance has in someone’s life. This is Sisters in Sobriety, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol. Check out our substack for extra tips, tricks and resources. Highlights 00:01:00 – Meet Dr. Stephanie Covington and the personal recovery story behind her pioneering work 00:02:20 – What early addiction treatment and Twelve Step programs got wrong about women 00:03:35 – Why women-only recovery spaces can create greater safety and vulnerability 00:04:00 – Addiction, incarceration, and the lack of real treatment inside jails and prisons 00:06:00 – Medication-assisted treatment, Twelve Step access, and what is missing behind bars 00:07:00 – Why recovery community can be critical for successful reentry after incarceration 00:08:35 – Sonia shares that she is working the Twelve Steps nearly nine years into sobriety 00:09:20 – Why A Woman’s Way Through the Twelve Steps reframes recovery through women’s voices 00:10:00 – Reimagining the Fourth Step as a compassionate “spring cleaning” of the self 00:14:00 – Should AA literature change, and why Dr. Covington focuses on the Twelve Steps over the Big Book 00:16:00 – The Twelve Steps as tools for living, not simply tools for stopping drinking 00:17:00 – Why meetings, connection, and community strengthen long-term recovery 00:18:30 – How trauma and addiction become intertwined and why genetics is only part of the picture 00:21:00 – When trauma and addiction should be treated together rather than sequentially 00:23:30 – The three major relapse risks for women: trauma, relationships, and sexual issues 00:25:30 – Why childhood trauma can have a particularly profound developmental impact 00:28:00 – Big-T versus little-t trauma—and why comparing trauma can be misleading 00:30:00 – Relationships, sexuality, shame, and the overlooked realities of women’s recovery 00:33:00 – Sonia opens up about dating, intimacy, and having sex sober for the first time 00:37:00 – Trauma-informed, trauma-responsive, and trauma-specific care explained 00:39:00 – The origin and power of shifting from “What’s wrong with you?” to “What happened to you?” 00:44:00 – Cali sober, switching substances, moderation, and whether addiction can be “transcended” 00:49:30 – Dr. Covington shares her own failed experiment with having “just one” drink 00:50:30 – The 30-day experiment and the unforgettable “green beans” test for evaluating alcohol’s role Dr. Covington's Links https://www.stephaniecovington.com/ https://www.instagram.com/stephaniecovingtonofficial/ SIS Links 💌 Sisters In Sobriety Substack – where the magic (and the mocktail recipes) happen 📬 Sisters In Sobriety Email 📸 Sisters In Sobriety Instagram 🌐 Kathleen’s Website Kathleen does not endorse any products mentioned in this podcast 📸 Kathleen’s Instagram