Prefigurative Politics and Workplace Democracy w/ Saio Gradin and Nicole Wires

This is a free preview of the episode "The Politics of Anti-Fatness as Anti-Blackness w/ Da'Shuan Harrison," which will be unlocked in a few weeks. To can get early access to the full episode by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast As a Patreon subscriber you will get access to at least one bonus episode a month (usually two or three), our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes, early access to certain episodes, and other benefits like stickers and bumper stickers—depending on which tier you subscribe to. You’ll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going. Find out more at Patreon.com/upstreampodcast or at upstreampodcast.org/support. Thank you. Anti-fatness as anti-Blackness. Being Black and fat in our capitalist, white-supremacist, ableist, heteronormative society is to live in a body that is subjected to a form of unique violence marked by policing, misdiagnosis, discrimination, abuse, trauma—the list goes on.  And anti-fatness and anti-Blackness are not simply two separate things—disparate nodes on a circuit of oppression—anti-fatness and anti-Blackness form a crucial intersection, and are ultimately one and the same, according to our guest, in terms of their history, structural, weaponization, and deployment by the ideological apparatuses of the capitalist state and the violence which it upholds.  In this episode, we’ll be discussing anti-fatness as anti-Blackness with Da'Shaun Harrison—a writer, editor, speaker, community organizer, co-executive director of Scalawag Magazine, and author of Belly of the Beast: The Politics of Anti-Fatness as Anti-Blackness, published by North Atlantic Books. In this conversation, we explore the field of fat studies, the history of anti-fatness and anti-Blackness, why we should view anti-fatness as anti-Blackness, the eugenicist history of BMI—or the Body Mass Index—the need to stretch and grow abolition politics, the importance of unlearning supremacist ideology, and much more.  Further resources: Belly of the Beast: The Politics of Anti-Fatness as Anti-Blackness, published by North Atlantic Books Da'Shaun's LinkTree Roxanne Gay Fearing the Black Body: The Racial Origins of Fat Phobia, Sabrina Strings Heavy: An American Memoir, Kiese Laymon The Embodiment of Disobedience: Fat Black Women’s Unruly Political Bodies, Andrea Shaw Related episodes: Abolish the Police Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

Prefigurative politics, building the new within the old, exercising our muscles of collectivity and collaboration—muscles that have grown weak and atrophied under capitalist hegemony—these are all ideas and practices that play a crucial role in our revolutionary movements. And examples of prefiguration can and do take many interesting and inspiring forms—one of these forms is worker self-direction, or worker cooperatives.  In today’s episode we’re talking prefiguration and worker self-direction—and we’ve split the episode up into two parts so that we can dive deeply into both. Part one of our conversation takes a deep dive into the concept and practice of prefigurative politics, which is, simply put, the attempt to implement the world that you want to live in, now. And we’ve brought on the perfect guest to talk about it.  Saio Gradin teaches Politics at Kings College, London and is a community organizer and educator who has spent twenty years running workshops, campaigns and organizations for global justice. They are the author of the book, Prefigurative Politics: Building Tomorrow Today, published by Polity Books.  Part two of our conversation is going to take a deep dive into one form of prefiguration—worker self-direction—specifically, we’ll exploring the ins and outs of working at a self-directed not-for-profit, which is structurally similar to a worker cooperative, but we’ll get into more those details in the conversation. The point is, we’ll be talking about what it’s like to work in a democratically-run organization. And to have that conversation, we’ve brought on Nicole Wires. Nicole is an organizer and the Network Director for the Nonprofit Democracy Network and a worker-member of the Sustainable Economies Law Center. In this episode, we explore the concept of prefiguration and how it compares and contrasts to other revolutionary strategies. We explore examples of prefiguration in history and today and why prefigurative politics are an important component of our revolutionary movements. In part two we take a deep dive into the process and practice of prefiguration specifically in the context of worker self-direction, exploring the benefits and challenges of being part of a self-directed organization, the different types of decision-making processes utilized by certain worker-run firms, and how worker cooperatives—and the many forms they take—fit into a broader ecosystem of individuals and organizations striving to live their values in a world dominated by the logic of capital.  Further Resources Prefigurative Politics: Building Tomorrow Today, published by Polity Books Could pre-figurative politics provide a way forward for the left? by Siao Gradin in OpenDemocracy Indian Home Rule Movement Universal Negro Improvement Association and African Communities League (Marcus Garvey) The Tyranny of Structurelessness by Jo Freeman Related Episodes: Worker Cooperatives Pt. 1: Widening Spheres of Democracy (Documentary) Worker Cooperatives Pt. 2: Islands within a Sea of Capitalism (Documentary) Be More Pirate w/ Sam Conniff Craftivism with Sarah Corbett Transition Towns with Rob Hopkins Intermission music: "Garbage Factory" by Bobby Frith This episode was produced in collaboration with EcoGather, a collapse-responsive co-learning network that hosts free online Weekly EcoGatherings that foster conversation and build community around heterodox economics, collective action, and belonging in an enlivened world. In this collaboration, EcoGather will be hosting gatherings to bring some Upstream episodes to life—this is one of those episodes. Find out more, including the date and time for this EcoGathering in the show notes or by going to www.ecogather.ing. Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

“This is the most important election of our lifetimes.” “Voting for a third-party candidate? Might as well throw away your vote!” “You may not like her, but you’ve just got to hold your nose and vote for her — otherwise, Trump might win.”  We're sure you’ve heard each of these lines many times — we know that we have. But, at some point you have to ask: how can every election be the most important one? Am I really throwing away my vote by voting for a candidate whose policies I agree with? Can we ever actually affect change if we’re always voting for the "lesser evil" candidate or party? Isn’t that just a race to the bottom — or, as we're seeing currently, a race towards genocide? Well, in this conversation, we’re going to tackle all of those questions — and much more — with our guest, August Nimtz, Professor of political science and African American and African studies in the College of Liberal Arts at the University of Minnesota. Professor Nimtz is the author of The Ballot, The Streets, Or Both? published by Haymarket Books. In this conversation, Professor Nimtz explores the question of electoralism as it relates to revolutionary left politics through a deep dive into the history of the Russian Revolution — examining how Marx, Engels, and Lenin approached electoralism and then applying their analyses and viewpoints to today’s situation.  What is the role of elections for the revolutionary left? How can we engage with electoralism without falling into what Professor Nimtz refers to as “electoral fetishism”? What about the "lesser evil" or "spoiler" phenomenon? How can we build a party for the working and oppressed classes without falling prey to opportunism or bourgeois distraction? What can we learn from the European Revolutions of 1848, the Paris Commune, the Russian Revolution, and other historic attempts at revolution — both successful and unsuccessful? These are just some of the questions and themes we explore in this episode with Professor Nimtz. Thank you to Bethan Mure for this episode’s cover art and to Noname for the intermission music. Upstream theme music was composed by Robert Raymond. Further resources: The Ballot, The Streets, or Both? by August Nimtz Related episodes: [UNLOCKED] Voting for Socialism w/ Claudia De La Cruz & Karina Garcia Battling the Duopoly w/ Jill Stein Righteous Indignation, Love, and Running for President w/ Dr. Cornel West Upstream: What Is To Be Done? with Breht O'Shea and Alyson Escalante Socialism Betrayed w/ Roger Keeran and Joe Jamison Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky.    

This is a free preview of the episode "Disabled Ecologies w/ Sunaura Taylor." You can listen to the full episode by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast As a Patreon subscriber you'll get access to at least one bonus episode a month (usually two or three), our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes, early access to certain episodes, and other benefits like stickers and bumper stickers—depending on which tier you subscribe to. You’ll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going. Find out more at Patreon.com/upstreampodcast or at upstreampodcast.org/support. Thank you. Disability is a state, or an idea, or a process even that is often associated with human beings—somebody becomes “disabled” or is experiencing “disability.” We don’t typically attach this state of being or this process to things other than human beings, much less to, say, geological formations. When is the last time you heard somebody refer to a contaminated body of water as “being disabled?” But utilizing the language and framing of disability when thinking about the impacts of capitalism and imperialism on our bodies and our biosphere is not just a useful exercise—it’s a profound and crucial analysis.  The story that we tell in this episode is one of disabled ecologies and has its origins deep beneath the ground in Tucson, Arizona—but it stretches all across the globe, from Gaza to Yemen to Korea—from the cells in our bodies to the water that lives in aquifers many feet below the ground. And really, the story doesn’t actually originate in Arizona—it begins somewhere in Europe sometime between the 12th to 16th centuries, during the dawn of capitalism. But that’s a different story for a different time.  To tell the story and concept of disabled ecologies—a story of the web of interconnection between humans and the more-than-human world—we’ve brought on Sunaura Taylor. Sunaura is an Assistant Professor at UC Berkeley in the Department of Environmental Science, Policy, and Management, a critical disability scholar and activist, an artist, and the author of two books: Beasts of Burden: Animal and Disability Liberation, published by The New Press, and, most recently, Disabled Ecologies: Lessons from a Wounded Desert, published by University of California Press.   In this episode we tell the story of Tucson, Arizona’s aquifer and how it came to be contaminated by the US military. We trace the contours of death and destruction from the water beneath Tucson’s Southside neighborhood to the bodies living above it, from the chemicals that disabled ecosystems in Arizona and to the bombs drenched in those chemicals that were dropped on people across the Global South. We explore disability politics, environmental racism, classism, and the importance of organizing. And we celebrate the wins and the successes—not yet complete—of those in Tucson, Arizona who are taking on the capitalist state machinery to fight for justice and personal, community, and ecological healing. Further resources: Disabled Ecologies: Lessons from a Wounded Desert Nature is Disappearing: The Average Size of Wildlife Populations has Fallen by a Staggering 73% Related episodes: Breaking the Chains of Empire w/ Abby Martin (Live Show) Health Communism with Beatrice Adler-Bolton Terra Viva with Vandana Shiva Cover art: Sunaura Taylor Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

The Democratic Republic of the Congo, or The DRC, is—despite being in one of the most resource-rich regions on the planet—one of the poorest countries in the world. It sits atop a wealth of minerals that form the central components to much of our technology in the 21st century, and yet, none of this wealth remains in the country. Well, almost none of it—there is of course some that is skimmed off the top by local elites. But the vast majority of the wealth, along with the raw materials, are exported from the country and end up not just lining the pockets of multinational corporations and their shareholders, but, of course, the wealth ends up in the pockets of Western consumers in the form of iPhones, for example, that should be priced much more highly than they actually are.  In this episode, we’re going to take a deep dive into the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and in doing so, explore why this resource-rich country is as impoverished and as immiserated as it is. And we’ve brought on the perfect guest to talk us through it all.  Vijay Prashad is a journalist, political commentator, and executive-director of Tricontinental: Institute for Social Research. He’s the author of Washington Bullets: The History of the CIA, Coups, and Assassinations, and Red Star Over the Third World. In this episode, we explore the history of The Congo and situate it within a much broader framework of colonialism, neocolonialism, and imperialism which shaped—both literally and figuratively—the continent of Africa for hundreds of years. We explore the Congolese’s fight for independence and sovereignty as it manifested through their independence leader Patrice Lumumba, who was assassinated in 1961. We explore the current state of the country, what many refer to as the “silent genocide,” with millions of Congolese having been killed, displaced, and impoverished as a result of war, destabilization, super exploitation, and voracious extraction. And finally, we explore how the Congolese are fighting for their sovereignty and independence. This episode was produced in collaboration with EcoGather, a collapse-responsive co-learning network that hosts free online Weekly EcoGatherings that foster conversation and build community around heterodox economics, collective action, and belonging in an enlivened world. In this collaboration, EcoGather will be hosting gatherings to bring some Upstream episodes to life—this is one of those episodes. We hope you can join the gathering on Monday, November 11th at 8pm Eastern to discuss the topics covered in this episode. Find out more at www.ecogather.ing. Further Resources Tricontinental: Institute for Social Research The Congolese Fight for Their Own Wealth, Tricontintental Letter from Thysville Prison to Mrs. Lumumba  Related Episodes: [UNLOCKED] How the North Plunders the South w/ Jason Hickel Walter Rodney, Marxism, and Underdevelopment with D. Musa Springer & Charisse Burden-Stelly Better Lives for All w/ Jason Hickel Cover art: Sanyika Intermission music: “African Jazz” by Grand Kalle, part of album Joseph Kabasele and the Creation of Modern Congolese Music, Vol. 1 Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

This is a free preview of the episode "Western Marxism w/ Gabriel Rockhill." You can listen to the full episode by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast As a Patreon subscriber you will get access to at least one bonus episode a month (usually two or three), our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes, early access to certain episodes, and other benefits like stickers and bumper stickers—depending on which tier you subscribe to. You’ll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going. Find out more at Patreon.com/upstreampodcast or at upstreampodcast.org/support. Thank you. Western Marxism. What is it? Where did it arise from? And what is it in opposition to? Not simply a geographic indicator, although much of what it depicts exists in what we understand to be the West more broadly, Western Marxism is a term deployed, in particular, by the great Italian Marxist Domenico Losurdo, to describe a form of Marxism that, in a nutshell, does not concern itself with anti-imperialism and anti-colonialism, but, instead, rejects much of the actually-existing socialism that exists in the very real, material world—a world which Western Marxism, over the years, has become more and more alienated and estranged from. Western Marxism stands in opposition to what Domenico Losurdo calls Eastern Marxism, which, again, is not necessarily delineated by a specific geography, but is a form of Marxism that has cut its teeth in real struggles for power, in real anti-colonial revolution. In his penultimate book—which shares the title of this episode—Domenico Losurdo presents a scathing but honest, passionate, and deeply sincere critique of Western Marxism. Far from just a diatribe, Losurdo’s text spells out exactly why the West abandoned so much of Marxism that was central to Marx, Engels, and Lenin’s understandings of Marxist theory and, most importantly, practice.  The vast majority of Losurdo’s fifty or so books have not been translated into English, and he died in 2018, but this book, Western Marxism, was just recently translated into English for the first time, and we’ve brought on the edition’s editor, the terrific Gabriel Rockhill, to discuss it.  Gabriel Rockhill is a philosopher, cultural critic, and activist teaching Philosophy and Global Interdisciplinary Studies at Villanova University. He runs an educational nonprofit called the Critical Theory Workshop and is the editor of Western Marxism: How it was Born, How it Died, How it can be Reborn, by the Italian Marxist Domenico Losurdo, published by Monthly Review Press.  In this Patreon episode, we discuss Western Marxism and Eastern Marxism—tracing their histories and outlining their differences. We explore how the CIA and other anti-communist forces infiltrated the left and spread the influence of Western Marxism through academia, media, and other avenues in order to purge the Western left of its communist tendencies and to poison our perception of actually-existing socialism in places like the Soviet Union, China, Cuba, and Vietnam—among others. We explore how the left in the West can unlearn this propaganda and reintroduce a robust anti-imperialist, pro-communist analysis into our movements, and why it is so crucial to understand that the left must start with anti-imperialism. Further resources: Gabriel Rockhill Western Marxism: How it was Born, How it Died, How it can be Reborn, by Domenico Losurdo Crisis of Petty-Bourgeois Radicalism, Gus Hall Who Paid the Pipers of Western Marxism? Volume I of The Intellectual World War: Marxism versus the Imperial Theory Industry, by Gabriel Rockhill (forthcoming in 2025 by Monthly Review Press) Who Paid the Piper?: The CIA and the Cultural Cold War, by Frances Stonor Saunders Related episodes: What is To Be Done? w/ Breht O'Shea and Alyson Escalante The Liberal Virus Will the Revolution Be Funded? w/ Nairuti Shastry and Zac Chapman Walter Rodney, Marxism, and Underdevelopment with D. Musa Springer & Charisse Burden-Stelly Dialectical Materialism w/ Josh Sykes Socialism Betrayed w/ Roger Keeran and Joe Jamison The Missing Revolution w/ Vincent Bevins The Case Against the Professional Managerial Class with Catherine Liu Palestine Pt. 11: Israel and the U.S. Empire w/ Max Ajl Palestine Pt. 13: Al-Aqsa Flood and the Resistance Axis w/ Matteo Capasso Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

The Al-Aqsa Flood operation, which took place one year ago today, was perhaps one of the most important blows against U.S. imperialism that we’ve ever seen—both ideologically and materially. Nothing can ever be the same—and it shouldn’t, because what we considered normal, if we even thought about it at all, was a nightmare for the vast majority of people on the planet. The Global South and the Resistance Axis that has taken up the fight against the U.S. and Israel’s ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza, have shown themselves to be a leading force against U.S. imperialism, earth’s greatest enemy.  In this episode, we’re going to explore the Al-Aqsa Flood military operation from a year ago and contextualize it within the broader resistance movement against U.S. imperialism and the Zionist entity (Israel) that helps to uphold it. And we’ve brought on the perfect guest to walk us through it all. Matteo Capasso is Marie Curie Fellow at the University of Venice. His research focuses on the impact of US-led imperialism across the modern Middle East and North Africa. He is the Editor of Middle East Critique and the author of Everyday Politics in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, published by Syracuse University Press. In today’s episode we’ll take a deep dive into the history of resistance in the region and its context in broader resistance movements in the Global South. We’ll explore the history of Hamas, Hezbollah, and other parts of the resistance, talk about the overall impact that the Palestinian resistance has had, and explore how we in the imperial core can contribute to the destruction of the U.S. empire and support the resistance against it in the Global South. Further Resources Middle East Critique Everyday Politics in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, by Matteo Capasso The Thorn and the Carnation (Part I), by Yahya Al-Sinwar The urgency of anti-imperialist feminism Lessons from Palestine Walaa Alqaisiya  Palestine and the Ends of Theory, Max Ajl The Hegemony of Resistance: Hezbollah and the Forging of a National-Popular Will in Lebanon, Abed Kanaaneh The Imperialist Question: A Sociological Approach, Matteo Capasso Al-Aqsa Flood: Imperialism, Zionism and Reactionism in the 21st Century, Hassan Harb Join us in supporting Palestine at MECA, Anera, or the Palestinian Red Crescent Society Related Episodes: Palestine Pt. 11: Israel and the U.S. Empire w/ Max Ajl [UNLOCKED] How the North Plunders the South w/ Jason Hickel Upstream's ongoing series on Palestine Cover art: Beesan Arafat Intermission music: “From Ansar to Asklan” by George Kirmiz, reissued by Majazz project, an archival record label and alternative research platform reissuing and remixing vintage Arab vinyl and cassettes. Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

Oil is much more than just a source of energy—it’s a commodity that has shaped—and has been shaped—by the forces of capitalism perhaps more so than any other commodity. The story of oil is one of monopoly capitalism, one of imperialism, one of cheap labor, resource extraction, ecosystem devastation, climate change, assassinations, environmental disasters, genocides—the list goes on. Oil is the commodity which not just lubricates the actual, literal machinery driving the system—but which also lubricates the entire process of U.S. imperialism—the blood flowing through the empire’s many tentacles wrapped around the globe. As today’s guest has written, “Oil's centrality stems from what it does for the imperatives of accumulation: its ability to accelerate and expand capital's turnover, cheapen the costs of production (including labor), and knit together an international market. No other commodity plays this role.” Adam Hanieh is a Palestinian professor at the Institute for Arab and Islamic Studies at the University of Exeter. He is the author of Lineages of Revolt: Issues of Contemporary Capitalism in the Middle East, published by Haymarket Books, and most recently, Crude Capitalism: Oil, Corporate Power, and the Making of the World Market, published by Verso. Adam was on the show last year to talk about the political economy of Palestine, part of our ongoing series on Palestine.In this episode we explore the early history of oil, its emergence as a fuel source and how it eventually overtook other fuels like coal as the primary energy source of capitalism. We explore the role that oil has played in shaping geopolitics—from colonialism to coups, assassinations, and more, focusing on the way that oil has shaped the Middle East to this day. We talk about the major oil companies and how the world market for oil works, and finally, we bring into stark relief the environmental implications of this hydrocarbon and the way that oil companies continue to dominate and shape our response to climate change. Further resources: Crude Capitalism: Oil, Corporate Power, and the Making of the World Market Related episodes: Upstream's ongoing series on Palestine Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

This is a free preview of the episode "Will the Revolution Be Funded? w/ Nairuti Shastry and Zac Chapman." You can listen to the full episode by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast As a Patreon subscriber you will get access to at least one bonus episode a month (usually two or three), our entire back catalog of Patreon episodes, early access to certain episodes, and other benefits like stickers and bumper stickers—depending on which tier you subscribe to. You’ll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going. Find out more at Patreon.com/upstreampodcast or at upstreampodcast.org/support. Thank you. How do we resource the necessary work to dismantle capitalism and transition to a more democratic, just and regenerative economy—especially when capital will fight and/or co-opt any attempt to disrupt the status quo that they benefit from and when capital owns and controls most foundations and granting institutions?  This is the important and highly relevant question we will tackle today with our two guests Nairuti Shastry and Zac Chapman. Nairuti is a racial and economic justice researcher-practitioner and the Founder and Principal of Nuance, a social impact consulting firm, as well as a senior researcher at Beloved Economies.  Zac is the Resource Mobilization Director at the New Economy Coalition, a steering committee member of Massachusetts Solidarity Economy Network, and board member of LittleSis. Together they recently wrote an article titled, “Will the Revolution be Funded?” published by The Forge.  In this conversation we explain why it is so hard to find funding to do anti-capitalist movement work and how we can find aligned funding both within and outside of mainstream philanthropy. We learn about ways that activists and organizations are working to fight against and transform the nonprofit industrial complex and the existing philanthropic culture and institutions. And finally, we ask what it truly means to resource the revolution and support ourselves beyond financial capital.  Further resources: Will the Revolution be Funded? Will the Revolution be Funded? Youtube event recording New Economy Coaltion Funding Library Post Capitalist Philanthropy New Report: Gilded Giving 2022, Institute for Policy Studies Funding Freedom: Philanthropy and the Palestinian Freedom Movement, Solidaire Sylvia Rivera Law Project Poder Emma Drivers Cooperative A Strategic Framework for a Just Transition, Movement Generation How we Contest for Power, Mijente Resource Generation What Organizers Need From Lawyers, Part 2: Help Build Deep Democracy, Convergence Mag The Political Logic of the Non-Profit Industrial Complex The Financial Activist Playbook, by Jasmine Rashid  Winners Take All: The Elite Charade of Changing the World By Anand Giridharadas Related organizations: Sustainable Economies Law Center, Invest for Better, Slow Money Institute, NC3, Excessive Wealth Disorder Institute, Transform Finance, The Next Egg Values aligned Wealth advisors and managers: Mission Driven Finance, FSL Public Finance, Chordata Capital, Mission Driven Finance, Adasina Social Capital   Related episodes: Post Capitalism w/ Alnoor Ladha A World Without Profit with Jennifer Hinton Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

Capitalism’s addiction to growth doesn’t just show up in the external world. It can also be found inside us—in our manufactured desire for more and better. Not only do we have to keep wanting to keep the machine going, we have to keep wanting what is “scarce” and easily privatizable or commodifiable so that the capitalist class can continue to profit. Critical hedonism(s) is an approach to pleasure and care that is critical of capitalism. It is a politics of pleasure that invites us to remake our desires to be less antisocial, competitive, and harmful, and to instead be more prosocial, collaborative and mutually beneficial.  The idea of critical hedonism(s) has been deeply studied and explored by our guests in today’s episode. Zarinah Agnew is a trained neuroscientist formerly at University College London, and then UCSF, a self-described guerrilla scientist, and part of the Beyond Return organization. Eric Wycoff Rogers is a historian, writer, community organizer, and designer currently based in London. Eric runs a thirdspace project in London, convenes a discussion series on the politics of pleasure, and is the author of the Critical Hedonist Manifesto. This is Eric and Zarinah’s second time on the podcast, they joined us in 2022 to talk about Fully Automated Luxury Communism, which is a great compliment to this episode. This is also a great episode following our most recent conversation with Jason Hickel, Better Lives for All. Where that conversation focused on human needs, this one takes up the topic of human wants.  In this conversation, we explore what capitalism tells us to desire and why, we interrogate what is truly “cheap,” “expensive,” and “valuable,” and explore what it would be like to participate in a politics of pleasure based on critical hedonism(s)—creating conditions and opportunities for distributed pleasure that don’t cause harm to people or the planet. Finally, we are invited to learn about community gatherings and how to do the work of reclaiming and remaking pleasure. Further Resources: Critical Hedonist Manifesto Critical Hedonism(s) Beyond Return Decoding Labs The Joyless Economy, by Tibor Scitovsky The Right to Sex, by Amia Srinivasan The Zero Marginal Cost Society I Dream of Canteens The Listening Society: Possible and Necessary Post-Growth Living: For An Alternative Hedonism, by Kate Soper Pleasure Activism: The Politics of Feeling Good, by Adrienne Maree Brown Becoming Feminist: Consciousness Raising and Social Ecology, Eric Woycoff Rogers (blog) Related Episodes: Fully Automated Luxury Communism with Zarinah Agnew and Eric Wycoff Rogers Better Lives for All w/ Jason Hickel Grassroots Urban Placemaking with Mark Lakeman Sex, Desire, and the Neoliberal Subject Suburban Hell and Ugly Cities Intermission music: Night Cafe Radio Upstream is a labor of love—we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at  upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.