Episode 231: The Bizarre and Circuitous Route of a Lifetime of Learning (with Ken Ramirez)

Ari and Chris are joined by one of their favorite Brits, Shaping Behaviour founder Nicky Plaskitt! Nicky chats with us about her path from zookeeper to zoo training consultant, the importance of not being risk-averse, the unexpected academic audiences that her company has connected her too, the importance of establishing and maintaining an online following, why trainers should avoid perfection and shoot for "a middle ground that becomes your new beginning," and why highland cows are the best. If you have a shout-out you’d like us to share, a question or a topic you’d like us to discuss, or a suggestion for a guest we should have on the show, let us know at [email protected]!

Ari and Chris are joined by one of their absolute favorite people in the field, Elly Neumann! Elly chats with us about the journey that brought her to her current role as Coordinator of Welfare, Training, and Enrichment at Jerusalem Zoo, the wide spectrum of where animals institutions are at globally in the development of their behavior management programs, the evolutions of how we share knowledge in the zoo world, the important work she has been a part of through the Animal Behavior Management Alliance (where Elly is the current President) and The Animal Behavior Community, and the importance of finding ways to get more involved.  If you have a shout-out you’d like us to share, a question or a topic you’d like us to discuss, or a suggestion for a guest we should have on the show, let us know at [email protected]!

Ari and Chris are joined by one of their favorite members of the NEI Expanded Universe: Sidney Campbell, Senior Trainer & Educator at Cascades Raptor Center! Sidney details the path that took her from San Diego elephants to Alaskan raptors, how her interest in non-profits was the perfect partner to working in raptor rehab, the unique way that animal trainers are skilled at taking care of each other, the joy of behavior puzzles, the importance of investing in productive friendships, the crucial role of the Silver Brigade, and why everyone should "figure out who you are, and do it on purpose". Shout outs to Jason Beale, Amy Fennell, and Dolly Parton!  If you have a shout-out you’d like us to share, a question or a topic you’d like us to discuss, or a suggestion for a guest we should have on the show, let us know at [email protected]! References from the episode:  How to Build a Slide Door Crate by Tim Van Loan

Here's one we've been excited to do for awhile: Ari and Chris are joined by Cheyenne Mountain Zoo President & CEO Bob Chastain and NEI President & CEO Steve Martin to talk about the history of the relationship between the two organizations! We chat about "Bob's side of the story" for CMZ tales Steve's been telling us for years, how the stage was set for sweeping training and culture changes at the zoo by Bob's predecessor (thanks, Susan Engfer!), how free flight bird training made Bob think differently about parenting, the magic of "discretionary energy", how what got you here won't get you where you want to go, and the importance of knowing when animals - and people - are ready for what's next. If you have a shout-out you’d like us to share, a question or a topic you’d like us to discuss, or a suggestion for a guest we should have on the show, let us know at [email protected]!   

Despite cell phone signals doing their best to keep us apart, Chris AND Ari are joined for the return of Greg Peccie, Riverbanks Zoo and Garden's Director of Animal Care and Welfare! Greg returns to the show to help us dig deeper into the many angles of professional development: developing a shared language for what those two words mean, how "quiet quitting" fits into an industry that requires constant diligence and effort from its employees, why newer keepers might be better served to aim for batting singles instead of homeruns, how being a change-maker and being miserable are both choices a person can make, and why leaders might want to see how a racehorse performs before they put money on it.  If you have a shout-out you’d like us to share, a question or a topic you’d like us to discuss, or a suggestion for a guest we should have on the show, let us know at [email protected]!  

Because we thought it might be fun to talk about animals for a change on our animal training podcast, Ari and Chris are joined by Brookfield Zoo Chicago's Tim Sullivan to talk about the history, evolution, and future of environmental enrichment! Inspired by Tim's presentation at the 2024 ABMA Conference, we discuss the shift from "throwing trash into beautiful habitats" to goal-based enrichment, how the late Hal Markowitz was way ahead of his time, the importance of overcoming "analysis paralysis" to make approximations towards improved welfare, how enrichment can give animals purpose, the role on unpredictability in animal care, and the exciting frontiers of free operants and enriched experiences. If you have a shout-out you’d like us to share, a question or a topic you’d like us to discuss, or a suggestion for a guest we should have on the show, let us know at [email protected]!

Want to know more about what control can look like for the animals you work with? This is the episode for you! Ari and Chris are joined by Khaz Brooks and Ryan Talbot to talk about the work they did with (what they learned was) assent training at Wolf Park. They share how research into ABA and control gave them new language for giving their wolves a stronger voice in their training, how higher level training isn't as "magical" as it sometimes looks (it's about effort!), the joy of giving animals new skillsets, and the value of finding your fellow nerds.  If you have a shout-out you’d like us to share, a question or a topic you’d like us to discuss, or a suggestion for a guest we should have on the show, let us know at [email protected]! References from the episode:  An Introduction to Cooperative Care for Canines - Big Bad Rescue Network Foundations of of Preemptive Compassion: A Behavioral Concept Analysis of Compulsion, Consent, and Assent (Linnehan et al., 2023) Can There Be Compassion Without Assent? A Nonlinear Constructional Approach (Abdel-Jalil et al., 2023)

Chris is joined by many people using many microphones to talk about the 2024 AZA Annual Conference in Calgary, Canada! What did we learn? Who did we meet? What did we do? Listen and find out! Big thanks go out to Jen Charette (Zoo Community Manager, Tessere), Liz Evans (Manager of Behavioral Husbandry and Animal Programs), Jon Rossi (host/producer, The Rossifari Podcast), Justin Garner (Curator of Zoological Operations, Bush Gardens Tampa Bay), and the mega-group of Samantha Sherry, Ashley Breusing, Avery Schneider, Corryn Zylstra, Nathan Ooms, Kaylie Adams, Christina Fournier, Kaci Agre, and Cassidy Payne (Zoo, Aquarium, and Animal Shelter Management Graduate Program, Colorado State University) for their time and participation! If you have a shout-out you’d like us to share, a question or a topic you’d like us to discuss, or a suggestion for a guest we should have on the show, let us know at [email protected]!

After wayyyyy too much time of talking about making it happen, Chris and Ari finally sit down to chat with the legendary Ken Ramirez! Ken shares his inspiring and unique journey through the animal training field—from his early passion for guide dogs, to his long career in marine mammal training, all the way up to his current role leading up Karen Pryor Clicker Training. He also discusses how teaching a Masters Course led to writing his renowned book, Animal Training: Successful Animal Management Through Positive Reinforcement. Ken's journey highlights how taking advantage of unexpected opportunities can create a lifetime of teaching and learning. If you have a shout-out you’d like us to share, a question or a topic you’d like us to discuss, or a suggestion for a guest we should have on the show, let us know at [email protected]!

In our continuing quest to collect the entire AZA Professional Development Committee on the show, we're excited to be joined by Jennifer Charette, Zoo Community Impact Manager at Tessere! Jen shares her unique path from birthday party host to zoo industry professional, the importance of committee service and understanding your "resource engine", how defining her "horizon job" got her to where she is today, why everyone should have an IDP, and why we should probably all let people lean into what they're good at instead of having to fit inside a box.  Also, make sure to stick around until the end to find out the answer to the question: "so....why 'hedgehog'?" If you have a shout-out you’d like us to share, a question or a topic you’d like us to discuss, or a suggestion for a guest we should have on the show, let us know at [email protected]!