279 | Rian Johnson on Writing High-Concept Stories with Deep Emotional Stakes

Noah Baumbach (MARRIAGE STORY, FRANCES HA) and Emily Mortimer (THE PURSUIT OF LOVE, DOLL & EM) join Lorien to talk about co-writing their new Netflix film JAY KELLY, from long conversations and false starts to discovering the emotional core of the story together. They talk about writing without outlines, why not knowing is part of the job, how acting informs writing, and the surprising gift of having permission to be “whimsical, wrong, and brave” before locking a script into shape. --- Looking for more support on your writing journey? Join Meg and Lorien inside ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TSL Workshops⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠- use code HOLIDAY25 for 50% off your first month. Episode Links: "Jay Kelly" on Netflix "The Pursuit of Love" on Prime Video Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TSL merch shop⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TSL on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Screenwriting Life is produced by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jonathan Hurwitz⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and edited by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Kate Mishkin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Email us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. --- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rian Johnson (KNIVES OUT, LOOPER, STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI) joins Meg for a deep craft conversation about balancing bold, high-concept ideas with intimate emotional storytelling. Rian breaks down how character - not plot mechanics - is the engine behind mystery, world-building, and genre, from crafting unforgettable character introductions to using theme as a dramatic misdirection tool. They also explore how emotion drives high-concept rules, how to write suspects with clarity, and why outlining is essential when juggling complex narratives. A masterclass in marrying big ideas with human stakes from one of today’s most distinctive storytellers. --- Looking for more support on your writing journey? Join Meg and Lorien inside ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TSL Workshops⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠- use code HOLIDAY25 for 50% off your first month. Episode Links: "Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery" on ⁠Netflix⁠ "Star Wars: The Last Jedi" on Disney+ Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TSL merch shop⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TSL on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Screenwriting Life is produced by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jonathan Hurwitz⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and edited by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Kate Mishkin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Email us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. --- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As we close out 2025, we’re sharing a special supercut of our 2025 guests answering the Big Questions we ask every writer: What brings you the most joy when it comes to writing? What frustrates you about your writing? What advice would you give your younger self? And, new this year - What’s your proudest career moment to date? An honest and inspiring supercut featuring voices from across film and TV, reflecting on why we write, what makes it hard, and what makes it all worth it. Featured Guests: 00:00:24 - Clint Bentley (Episode 230)00:05:34 - Glen Mazzara (Episode 233)00:10:30 - Kelly Younger (Episode 234)00:15:28 - Liz Feldman (Episode 236)00:18:23 - Malcolm Washington & Virgil Williams (Episode 237)00:23:58 - Will Fetters & Chris Sparling (Episode 238)00:29:10 - Dana Fox (Episode 239)00:31:05 - George Saunders (Episode 240)00:34:38 - Lizzie & Wendy Molyneux (Episode 241)00:42:04 - John Henion (Episode 242)00:44:53 - Carla Banks-Waddles (Episode 245)00:49:28 - Jac Schaeffer (Episode 250)00:52:44 - Joe Forte (Episode 251)00:55:56 - Kim Rosenstock (Episode 252)00:58:32 - Sylvia Batey Alcalá & Mac Smullen (Episode 255)01:04:16 - Courtney Hoffman (Episode 259)01:07:21 - Kaz Firpo (Episode 261)01:09:40 - Eva Victor (Episode 262)01:12:26 - Akiva Goldsman (Episode 264)01:13:52 - Jeff Hiller (Episode 266)01:15:01 - Jenny Han (Episode 270)01:15:22 - Melissa Rosenberg (Episode 271)01:16:47 - Derek Kolstad (Episode 274)01:18:03 - Maggie Lane & Eric Jarboe (Episode 275)01:22:32 - Doug Mand & Dan Gregor (Episode 276)01:28:54 - John August & Craig Mazin (Episode 277) --- Looking for more support on your writing journey? Join Meg and Lorien inside ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TSL Workshops⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠- use code HOLIDAY25 for 50% off your first month. Episode Links: Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TSL merch shop⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TSL on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Screenwriting Life is produced by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jonathan Hurwitz⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and edited by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Kate Mishkin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Email us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. --- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

John August and Craig Mazin - hosts of the legendary Scriptnotes podcast - join us for a wide-ranging conversation inspired by their new book, Scriptnotes: A Book About Screenwriting and Things That Are Interesting to Screenwriters.  We talk about why rigid structure can miss the point, how theme emerges from character, what fear and denial really look like on the page, and how writers can survive rejection without letting it define them.  A candid, funny, and deeply reassuring conversation for writers at every stage. A special thanks to Scriptnotes producer Drew Marquardt and editor Matthew Chilelli for their support with this episode. --- Looking for more support on your writing journey? Join Meg and Lorien inside ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TSL Workshops⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠- use code HOLIDAY25 for 50% off your first month. Episode Links: Check out the new Scriptnotes book here Scriptnotes Premium John August's website "The Last of Us" on HBO Max Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TSL merch shop⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TSL on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Screenwriting Life is produced by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jonathan Hurwitz⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and edited by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Kate Mishkin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Email us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. --- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, THE NAKED GUN writers Doug Mand and Dan Gregor take us inside the making of one of the boldest studio comedies in years. They break down how they approached structure in a spoof film, why emotional arcs matter just as much as jokes, and how committing fully to the stupidest ideas can sometimes be the smartest choice. Doug and Dan talk candidly about fearlessness, rejection, impostor syndrome, and why every movie is a miracle. It’s ultimately a funny, honest, and deeply encouraging conversation about sustaining a creative life in comedy. --- Looking for more support on your writing journey? Join Meg and Lorien inside ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TSL Workshops⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠- use code HOLIDAY25 for 50% off your first month. Episode Links: The Naked Gun (on Paramount+) Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠TSL merch shop⁠⁠⁠⁠ TSL on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Screenwriting Life is produced by ⁠⁠⁠⁠Jonathan Hurwitz⁠⁠⁠⁠ and edited by ⁠⁠⁠⁠Kate Mishkin⁠⁠⁠⁠. Email us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠. --- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week we’re celebrating one of our favorite genres: holiday movies!  Screenwriter Maggie Lane (HOTEL FOR THE HOLIDAYS) and producer Eric Jarboe (FALLING FOR CHRISTMAS, THE PRINCESS SWITCH) join us to pull back the curtain on how Christmas films are conceived, pitched, developed, budgeted, and shot - sometimes in as little as 13 days. We dig into what networks actually want, how to craft a great rom-com holiday premise, what makes a title irresistible, how to build producible scripts, and why collaboration (and quick rewrites!) are everything. It’s a warm, funny, highly practical episode full of insider intel and festive filmmaking stories. --- Looking for more support on your writing journey? Join Meg and Lorien inside ⁠⁠⁠⁠TSL Workshops⁠⁠⁠ ⁠- use code HOLIDAY25 for 50% off your first month. Episode Links: Writing the Romantic Comedy by Billy Mernit JHRTS (Junior Hollywood Radio & Television Society) Film Independent AFI Directing Workshop for Women Hotel for the Holidays (on Prime Video) WGA Minimums Schedule Check out the ⁠⁠⁠TSL merch shop⁠⁠⁠ TSL on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠ The Screenwriting Life is produced by ⁠⁠⁠Jonathan Hurwitz⁠⁠⁠ and edited by ⁠⁠⁠Kate Mishkin⁠⁠⁠. Email us at ⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠. --- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, JOHN WICK creator Derek Kolstad joins us to break down how he crafts character-driven action on the page. Derek shares how he thinks about tone, rhythm, and world-building, why action is an extension of the hero’s journey, and the psychological tricks he uses to survive rewrites. We also dig into his collaborations with actors like Keanu Reeves and Bob Odenkirk, his approach to adapting IP, and the creative habits that keep him excited to write "fade in." --- Looking for more support on your writing journey? Join Meg and Lorien inside ⁠⁠⁠TSL Workshops⁠⁠ ⁠- use code HOLIDAY25 for 50% off your first month. Episode Links: Check out the ⁠⁠TSL merch shop⁠⁠ TSL on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠, ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠ The Screenwriting Life is produced by ⁠⁠Jonathan Hurwitz⁠⁠ and edited by ⁠⁠Kate Mishkin⁠⁠. Email us at ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠. --- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In Part 2 of our conversation with counselor and healer Madaline Blau, we move from understanding imposter syndrome to learning how to work with it in the body. Madaline guides us through grounding practices and shares a powerful 10-minute guided visualization designed to help you return to your truth, your courage, and the deeper steadiness beneath your storytelling. If you haven’t heard Part 1, start there for the full arc of this conversation. Then come back for this beautiful, restorative close to the episode. --- Looking for more support on your writing journey? Join Meg and Lorien inside ⁠⁠TSL Workshops⁠ ⁠- use code HOLIDAY25 for 50% off your first month. Episode Links: Letter to Agnes De Mille from Martha Graham Check out the ⁠TSL merch shop⁠ TSL on ⁠Instagram⁠, ⁠TikTok⁠, and ⁠Bluesky⁠ The Screenwriting Life is produced by ⁠Jonathan Hurwitz⁠ and edited by ⁠Kate Mishkin⁠. Email us at ⁠[email protected]⁠. --- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In Part 1 of our deep dive into imposter syndrome, counselor and healer Madaline Blau helps us understand where creative insecurity really comes from - and why so many writers feel stuck between confidence and collapse. We unpack instinct, how insight shapes character and story, and the early experiences that form our creative identity. This episode ends at a powerful emotional pause, with Part 2 picking up next week as we move into grounding, embodiment, and a guided visualization with Madaline. --- Looking for more support on your writing journey? Join Meg and Lorien inside ⁠TSL Workshops ⁠- your first 5 days are free. Episode Links: Check out the TSL merch shop TSL on Instagram, TikTok, and Bluesky The Screenwriting Life is produced by Jonathan Hurwitz and edited by Kate Mishkin. Email us at [email protected]. --- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Melissa Rosenberg - creator of JESSICA JONES, head writer of DEXTER, and screenwriter of the TWILIGHT films - joins Lorien to talk about what it takes to stay grounded as a storyteller. From building creative communities to rediscovering her artistic voice after decades in Hollywood, Melissa reflects on the evolving balance between ambition, authenticity, and healing through story. --- Looking for more support on your writing journey? Join Meg and Lorien inside ⁠TSL Workshops ⁠- your first 5 days are free. Episode Links: Bennington College's new MFA in Screenwriting Check out the TSL merch shop TSL on Instagram, TikTok, and Bluesky The Screenwriting Life is produced by Jonathan Hurwitz and edited by Kate Mishkin. Email us at [email protected]. --- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices