Ep. 43: Making Learning Stick with Chris Taylor

What can L&D learn from the people who get organizations to actually change? In this episode, I talk with Lata Hamilton, a change management consultant who has worked on projects touching over 100,000 people. We cover how a change project runs from kick-off to long after go-live, why “this will save you time” can backfire, how to rebuild trust after a failed rollout, why frontline staff belong on the project team, and how to measure whether change sticks, starting with a baseline before the announcement. We also talk about NLP, which Lata describes as more art than science (research links are in the show notes below). Stay to the end for one habit L&D teams can borrow from change managers.References Book - Pioneer Your Career Change by Lata Hamilton: https://www.latahamilton.com/pioneer On NLPLata describes neuro-linguistic programming as more art than science. If you’d like to look at the research, here are two systematic reviews:• NLP in workplace settings: Kotera, Sheffield & Van Gordon (2019), “The applications of neuro-linguistic programming in organizational settings: A systematic review of psychological outcomes,” Human Resource Development Quarterly. https://nlp-professional.at/res21.pdf. The review found some positive results for outcomes like work-related psychological outcomes, and that further, more methodologically robust, research is warranted to investigate these effects further.• NLP and health outcomes: Sturt et al. (2012), “Neurolinguistic programming: a systematic review of the effects on health outcomes,” British Journal of General Practice. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3481516/. The review found little evidence of benefit, mainly because the studies were small and weakly designed.A Note on Terms“Chunking up” in NLP means moving to a higher level of abstraction by asking “for what purpose?” It’s different from chunking in learning design, where content is split into smaller pieces to suit working memory.Connect with LataLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/latahamilton/ Website: https://www.passionpioneers.com.au/ Connect with LearnnovatorsWebsite: https://learnnovators.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/learnnovators/Connect with VidyaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/srividyakumar/

Reflection is praised often and cut first when time runs short. Katrina Kennedy, author of Learning That Lasts, has spent over 25 years helping trainers and subject matter experts design learning that sticks. In this conversation, she shares why facilitators who talk less tend to have more impact, and what pilots and surgeons do that L&D hasn't yet caught up with. We also get into handling stakeholders who want more content and less pause, and what AI is doing to the way people think. One of her sharper points: reflection can't rescue content that had little meaning to begin with. She also describes her own reflection routine after every workshop. A conversation for anyone who wants training to last beyond the room.References UsedBook - Learning That Lasts by Katrina Kennedy: https://a.co/d/08vbQrRN Connect with KatrinaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katrinakennedytraining/ Connect with LearnnovatorsWebsite: https://learnnovators.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/learnnovators/Connect with VidyaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/srividyakumar/

What actually makes behavior change stick after a learning session ends? Chris Taylor joins Learning+ to share findings from close to a million data points on behavior change commitments. Vidya and Chris explore the "big E" environment (culture, systems) versus the "small e" environment (the people right around a learner), and why the latter is far more within L&D’s control to influence and change. They dig into what accountability partners should and shouldn't do, why proving impact might be the wrong goal, and why there's no such thing as bad data. A conversation for anyone who's wondered why training doesn't always translate into changed behavior.References UsedReport - Making Learning Stick: https://pages.actionable.co/insights-engagementBook - Liars and Outliers by Bruce Schneier: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/12046245-liars-and-outliers Book - The Coaching Habit by Michael Bungay Stanier: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/29342515-the-coaching-habit Connect with ChrisLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisjrtaylor/ Connect with LearnnovatorsWebsite: https://learnnovators.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/learnnovators/Connect with VidyaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/srividyakumar/

Everyone is talking about skills. But what does it actually take to build a skills-based learning strategy that improves performance? In this episode, Ryan Tracey introduces his five-stage model for implementing a skills-based learning strategy and explains why validation - not course completion - should sit at its heart. Ryan and Vidya discuss how to identify priority skills, support workplace application, measure real-world performance, and where AI can help. It's a practical conversation about moving beyond learning as an activity and making it a driver of business performance.References UsedA 5-stage model for implementing a skills-based learning strategy: https://ryan2point0.wordpress.com/2026/01/07/a-5-stage-model-for-implementing-a-skills-based-learning-strategy/ Connect with RyanLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryantracey/ Website: https://ryan2point0.wordpress.com/ Connect with LearnnovatorsWebsite: https://learnnovators.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/learnnovators/Connect with VidyaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/srividyakumar/

Only a small percentage of what people learn in training ever gets applied at work. In this episode of the Learning+ Podcast, Srividya Kumar speaks with Melanie Martinelli about why that gap continues to exist and what organizations can realistically do about it. The conversation explores manager support, transfer barriers, active practice, satisfaction scores, and the industry’s tendency to jump toward solutions before fully understanding the problem. Melanie also shares practical examples from her work, including simple interventions that significantly improve learning transfer without adding complexity. A thoughtful conversation on learning, behavior change, and what it really takes for training to matter beyond the classroom.Connect with MelanieLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanie-martinelli/ Website: https://www.transfereffectiveness.com/en Connect with LearnnovatorsWebsite: https://learnnovators.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/learnnovators/Connect with VidyaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/srividyakumar/

What does it really take to use learning science in the real world? In this episode, Srividya Kumar speaks with Dr. Kripa Sundar about the gap between research and practice. They explore why research often enters too late, how “learning science-based” products oversimplify evidence, and why balance matters more than blindly applying principles. The conversation also dives into seductive details, the limits of meta-analyses, and the importance of context. You’ll hear why measurement isn’t an endpoint, but an ongoing loop, and what it takes for learning scientists to influence real decisions inside organizations.References UsedOn seductive details: https://www.aft.org/ae/fall2020/sundarHow to find, read and use academic literature: https://www.cultofpedagogy.com/academic-research/Guide to read meta-analyses: https://pdf.retrievalpractice.org/MetaAnalysisGuide.pdfRole researchers and learning scientists can play: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-do-we-call-were-feeling-naming-dr-kripa-sundar-ecjzc/ AI decision field guide: https://www.edtechrecharge.com/ai-decision-field-guide Connect with KripaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kripasundar/ Website: https://www.edtechrecharge.com/Connect with LearnnovatorsWebsite: https://learnnovators.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/learnnovators/Connect with VidyaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/srividyakumar/

In this episode, Vidya speaks with Heather Burright about what it really takes to design learning in complex, mission-driven environments. They explore how L&D shifts when authority is limited and influence becomes essential, especially in federated nonprofit structures. The conversation touches on designing learning as a conversation, building from learner experience to enable inclusion, and rethinking measurement when post-training access is limited. Grounded in real practice, this episode offers a thoughtful look at how context shapes learning strategy, design, and impact.Connect with HeatherLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heather-burright/The Non-Profit L&D Collective: https://www.skillmastersmarket.com/nonprofit-learning-and-development-collectiveThe Learning for Good Podcast: https://learningforgood.buzzsprout.com/Podcast Episodes About Measurement- https://podcasts.apple.com/sg/podcast/how-to-measure-behavior-change-and-impact-in/id1621971310?i=1000684674477&l=zh-Hans-CN- https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-position-training-as-an-investment-from/id1621971310?i=1000742300016 Connect with LearnnovatorsWebsite: https://learnnovators.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/learnnovators/Connect with VidyaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/srividyakumar/

In this episode, Srividya Kumar and Ajay Jacob explore storytelling as a strategic skill in learning design. Their conversation moves beyond the usual advice about making learning “engaging” and looks more closely at what stories actually do for understanding and behavior change. They discuss when stories support learning and when they become distractions, the idea of a “Minimum Viable Story”, why emotion plays a role in meaningful learning, and where the line lies between influence and manipulation. It’s a thoughtful conversation about how stories shape the way people see their work and the choices they make.Connect with AjayLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajaytj/ Storytelling Course on Udemy: https://www.udemy.com/course/storytelling-foundations-unlocking-the-power-of-stories/?referralCode=91BDA7E8C30712E28687 Connect with LearnnovatorsWebsite: https://learnnovators.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/learnnovators/Connect with VidyaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/srividyakumar/

In Part 2 of this two-part conversation, Vidya and Michael Snelgrove explore how organizational systems shape behavior. They discuss structural stupidity, incentives, and the hidden priorities that influence decisions in workplaces. Michael shares how small signals can reveal deeper systemic patterns, why evidence alone rarely drives change, and what it takes to translate research into practice. The conversation also touches on apprenticeship, measurement, and the growing role of AI in accessing behavioral science. A thoughtful look at how capability, learning, and performance are shaped by the design of work itself.References UsedMichael’s Post About Structural Stupidity: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/mtsnelgrove_humanbehavior-hr-behavioralscience-activity-7397639043586396160-bzk5/The book that refers to the brown M&Ms: The Checklist Manifesto by Atul Gawande (the rock band is Van Halen): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312430000/ref=as_li_ss_tl Connect with MichaelLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mtsnelgrove/ Website: https://www.appliedscholar.com/ Connect with LearnnovatorsWebsite: https://learnnovators.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/learnnovators/Connect with VidyaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/srividyakumar/

In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, Vidya speaks with Michael Snelgrove about how learning and performance actually work under real conditions. Drawing on experiences from high-impact settings, including work connected to bomb defusal in Afghanistan and offshore sailing, Michael challenges some deeply held assumptions in L&D and HR. They explore why training often fails under pressure, how feedback can backfire, the limits of self-directed learning, and why focusing on skills without understanding how people learn leads to disappointing outcomes. A thoughtful look at learning as a system outcome, not an individual trait.Reference(s) UsedIatrogenics (the idea that treatment or medication can cause harm): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iatrogenesis Connect with MichaelLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mtsnelgrove/ Website: https://www.appliedscholar.com/ Connect with LearnnovatorsWebsite: https://learnnovators.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/learnnovators/Connect with VidyaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/srividyakumar/