It Is Not the Divorce That Breaks People. It Is the Years Leading Up to It with Erin Levine, Founder of Hello Divorce on Divorce & Beyond #414

When most people think about divorce, they picture the legal process. They imagine paperwork, lawyers, and courtrooms. But the reality is that divorce often begins long before any legal step is taken. In this episode, Susan Guthrie sits down with Erin Levine, founder of Hello Divorce, to talk about the stage of divorce that almost no one talks about: the years of uncertainty before a decision is ever made. For many people, the hardest part of divorce is not the legal process itself. It is the emotional limbo that happens beforehand. The sleepless nights. The constant questioning. The fear about what life might look like on the other side. Susan and Erin explore why so many people spend years wrestling with the decision to leave a marriage, what happens emotionally during that time, and how having the right information and support can dramatically change the experience. If you are currently wondering whether to stay or go, this episode will help you understand that what you are feeling is incredibly common and that there are ways to move forward with more clarity and less fear. What You Will Learn • Why many people contemplate divorce for three to five years before taking action • Why the emotional uncertainty before divorce can be the most exhausting stage • How lack of information often keeps people stuck in limbo • Why most divorces do not need to become courtroom battles • How mediation and other structured processes can help families move through divorce more constructively • Why preparation and clarity can dramatically change divorce outcomes Key Takeaways from This Conversation The Hidden Stage of Divorce Divorce often begins years before anyone files paperwork. Many people spend long periods quietly struggling with whether their marriage can be saved or whether it is time to move on. Living in Uncertainty Is Emotionally Draining The constant question of whether to stay or leave can take an enormous emotional toll. By the time someone actually moves forward with divorce, they may already feel mentally and emotionally exhausted. Information Creates Clarity Fear thrives in uncertainty. When people begin learning about their options and understanding the divorce process, they are able to make decisions from a place of knowledge rather than panic. Divorce Does Not Have to Be a War Many couples are able to resolve their divorce through mediation or negotiated agreements outside of court. Understanding these options can significantly reduce conflict and stress. Golden Nuggets from This Episode • Divorce itself is often not what breaks people. It is the years of uncertainty leading up to the decision. • Many people live in emotional limbo for years before they ever speak to a professional about divorce. • When people have access to information and structured support, they are far more likely to resolve their divorce outside of court. • Preparation and clarity allow people to approach divorce more thoughtfully and with less fear. • Divorce does not have to be a battle. With the right guidance, it can be a transition toward a healthier future. Resources Mentioned in This Episode Hello Divorce Hello Divorce is a modern platform designed to support people before, during, and beyond divorce. The platform provides legal information, tools, and access to professionals who help individuals navigate divorce more thoughtfully and constructively. Explore resources created specifically for Divorce & Beyond listeners: HelloDivorce.com/Susan Free Resource: Divorce Clarity Starter Guide If you are currently in the stage of wondering whether divorce might be the right path, Susan has created a resource to help you begin thinking through the process with greater clarity. The Divorce Clarity Starter Guide is designed for people who are in the early stages of considering divorce and want to better understand their options before making major decisions. Inside the guide you will find: • Questions to help you clarify what is really happening in your relationship • Practical steps to take before making legal decisions • Insight into different divorce paths, including mediation • Guidance to help you approach this transition thoughtfully rather than reactively Download the free Divorce Clarity Starter Guide here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/latest-episode   Special Offer from Blue Mercury Treat yourself to luxury skincare, makeup, and fragrance favorites from Blue Mercury, your destination for beauty and self-care. Divorce & Beyond listeners receive 15% off their first order when they use the special link in the show notes. Because you deserve to look and feel your best,  inside and out. You must use this link to receive the 15% off on your first Blue Mercury order: https://divorcebeyond.com/Blue-Mercury About the Guest  Erin’s innovative, disruptive approach to how Americans interact with the law make her both a loved and feared force in the legal world. With her groundbreaking divorce navigator platform, she’s revolutionizing the broken divorce process, making it affordable and available to everyone. Erin’s access to justice work has been recognized by the legal industry and beyond, with awards and recognition from the likes of Women Founders Network, Forbes, Entrepreneur, and the American Bar Association. And though she’s been a sought-after family law attorney for more than 16 years, she vows to never practice law again. Website: https://hellodivorce.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hellodivorce/ Erin's past episodes on Divorce & Beyond: Divorce Reimagined: How Hello Divorce Has Disrupted the Divorce Industry for the Better with Founder and CEO Erin Levine The FYI on DIY Divorce from the Founder and CEO of Hello Divorce, Erin Levine Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM  

When people talk about gray divorce, the conversation usually focuses on the couple: finances, retirement, and starting over later in life. But there is another group deeply affected by these late in life separations that often goes overlooked: adult children. The divorce rate for couples over 50 has more than doubled in recent decades, and as more long term marriages end later in life, families are navigating a transition many never expected. Even when children are fully grown, the divorce of their parents can reshape family dynamics, create loyalty conflicts, and disrupt long standing family roles. In this episode of the Divorce & Beyond Podcast, Susan Guthrie welcomes back Carol Hughes, co author of the groundbreaking book Home Will Never Be the Same Again. Carol first joined the podcast in 2021 with co author Bruce Fredenburg to discuss their research on adult children of gray divorce. She returns to share updated insights from both research and real world experiences about how adult children are affected when their parents divorce later in life. Together, Susan and Carol explore why gray divorce can be more emotionally disruptive for adult children than many parents realize, the common mistakes parents unintentionally make during this transition, and the powerful ways families can protect relationships even as the family structure changes. This is an essential conversation for anyone navigating divorce after 50, adult children trying to understand their parents’ separation, or professionals working with families where gray divorce is reshaping the entire family system. What You’ll Learn in This Episode • Why gray divorce affects the entire family, not just the couple • How loyalty conflicts can place adult children in painful and inappropriate roles • Why feeling unheard is one of the leading causes of estrangement between parents and adult children after divorce • How empathy, healthy boundaries, and thoughtful communication can help protect family relationships Additional Resources If you want to explore this topic further, be sure to read the companion blog article for this episode on the Divorce & Beyond website. You can also download Susan’s practical guide: How to Tell Your Adult Children You Are Getting Divorced: A Conversation Planning Guide This supportive resource helps parents prepare for one of the most difficult conversations families face during gray divorce, with insights on what adult children often experience, what to say, what to avoid, and how to approach the conversation with empathy and care. Visit the blog page for this episode at DivorceAndBeyondPod.com to read the article and download the guide. About the Guest  Carol Hughes holds her doctorate in Clinical Psychology, achieving both summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa honors. She is also a two-time Fulbright Scholar. In 2003, Carol was a co-founder of Collaborative Divorce Solutions of Orange County, an interdisciplinary practice group of divorce professionals dedicated to respectful, peaceful divorce solutions for families. In her practice in Laguna Hills, CA, as a California licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and family-focused divorce professional, for more than thirty years, she has assisted hundreds of divorcing families as a therapist, child and co-parenting specialist, divorce coach, and mediator. Connect with Carol Hughes Website: http://divorcepeacemaking.com Book: Home Will Never Be the Same Again: A Guide for Adult Children of Gray Divorce  https://amzn.to/4blt1jx Carol’s Workbook for Parents Going Through Gray Divorce: https://divorcepeacemaking.com/register-for-a-free-gift/ Episodes Mentioned: Gray Divorce: What It Takes. What It Gives Back. With Maryjane Sweet Special Episode Resource:  Gray Divorce and the Impact on Adult Children Today's episode has a companion blog article where Susan breaks down the key insights on gray divorce and the impact on adult children. Read it and share it with someone who may need it at divorceandbeyondpod.com. Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************************************************************************** Special Offer from Yumiyu YUMIYU Jewelry is Susan’s favorite source for meaningful, handcrafted jewelry designed to empower women and celebrate individuality. Each piece is made with care, using high-quality materials like real gold and vermeil, and is water-resistant, non-tarnish, and hypoallergenic. During difficult times, like divorce, wearing a symbol of hope or protection—such as a hamsa or an evil eye—can be a comforting reminder to keep the faith and stay strong. As a special gift to my listeners, YUMIYU Jewelry is offering 20% off your purchase! Use the code "BEYOND" at checkout to claim your discount. Explore their stunning collection at yumiyujewelry.com and find your perfect piece today! Link: https://divorcebeyond.com/YUMIYU  Code: “BEYOND” for 20% off! ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM

Time is supposed to heal everything. But for the millions of people navigating divorce after betrayal, that promise falls flat. They're functioning, managing the kids, showing up to work, doing all the things, and still carrying the weight of something that happened years, sometimes decades, ago. Fine, it turns out, is not the same as healed. In this powerful episode, Susan Guthrie welcomes back Dr. Debi Silber, founder of the Post Betrayal Transformation Institute and author of the new book Unstuck:The Practitioner's Guide to Moving Betrayal Clients from Survival to Transformation. Together, they unpack why so many people who have experienced betrayal, whether infidelity, financial deception, or the shattering of expectations that comes with divorce itself, get trapped in a cycle that looks like survival but feels like anything but living. Dr. Debi's research, drawn from over 100,000 people tested, reveals that healing from betrayal is not just possible. It is predictable. This conversation is for anyone who has ever asked, "Why am I still not over this?" Whether you are in the middle of a divorce, just discovering a betrayal, or years out and still feeling its grip, the lessons in this episode apply. It is also essential listening for the legal professionals, coaches, therapists, and mediators who want to understand what is truly going on beneath the surface. What You’ll Learn Betrayal in divorce is not just about infidelity. It is a collapse of trust on every level How Post Betrayal Syndrome keeps people physically, mentally, and emotionally stuck long after the relationship has ended The five proven, predictable stages of betrayal recovery and why most people unknowingly park in Stage Three Why self-trust is the real wound of betrayal and how rebuilding it through boundaries, intuition, and small kept promises is where healing actually begins How the Window of Willingness reveals whether the person who betrayed you is genuinely doing the work, and what that means for your path forward Why transformation does not begin until Stage Four and how Dr. Debi's new book Unstuck gives practitioners a roadmap for guiding betrayal clients all the way through, not just to fine About the Guest  Dr. Debi Silber, Founder and CEO of The PBT (Post Betrayal Transformation) Institute and National Forgiveness Day, is an award-winning speaker and 2-time #1 International bestselling author. Her podcast, From Betrayal to Breakthrough, ranks in the top 1.5% globally. Her groundbreaking PhD study revealed 3 discoveries that completely revolutionized our understanding of betrayal-and how to achieve full healing physically, mentally, and emotionally. Creator of the world's #1 betrayal recovery certification for life, business, health, and leadership coaches, Dr. Debi equips practitioners globally with her evidence-based framework so they can deliver exponentially better results with their existing clients. Featured on FOX, CBS, The Dr. Oz Show, and TEDx (twice), she equips practitioners with the missing framework-helping them move from uncertainty to confidence, from using general tools that keep clients stuck to specialized approaches that create genuine transformation. Connect with Dr. Debi Silber Website: http://thepbtinstitute.com Book: Unstuck: The Practitioner's Guide to Moving Betrayal Clients from Survival to Transformation Special Episode Resource: Rebuilding Self-Trust After Betrayal, A Guided Workbook If this episode resonated and you are ready to start moving from stuck to unstuck, download Susan's free guided workbook, Rebuilding Self-Trust After Betrayal. It walks you step by step through where self-trust was shaken, how to reset your boundaries, and how to begin the deliberate work of healing.  Download the guide here: https://6091f38a-6f36-42ef-8f98-d1cf174bdc28.lovableproject.com/episode/b2a06e0a-b3e1-42f6-b9b8-2f1889c9577c#resource Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************************************************************************** Special Offer from Blue Mercury Treat yourself to luxury skincare, makeup, and fragrance favorites from Blue Mercury, your destination for beauty and self-care. Divorce & Beyond listeners receive 15% off their first order when they use the special link in the show notes. Because you deserve to look and feel your best,  inside and out. You must use this link to receive the 15% off on your first Blue Mercury order: https://divorcebeyond.com/Blue-Mercury ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM

Divorce does not always change living arrangements overnight. Many couples file for divorce, expect everything to shift, and then walk back into the same home… with the same routines… and often even more tension than before. Living under the same roof after deciding a marriage is over can quickly become emotionally volatile if it is not handled intentionally. That is why Susan Guthrie welcomes back divorce and co-parenting coach Jenny Stevens. Together, they break down what it really takes to live under the same roof while divorcing, including how to create boundaries, communicate without escalating, and protect your emotional stability during a phase that can feel like navigating a daily minefield. This conversation explores the practical realities of cohabiting during divorce and why structure, communication, and intentional boundaries are essential to getting through this transitional period without creating additional conflict or long-term damage. What You’ll Learn Living together during divorce becomes more manageable when you accept it as a practical reality and approach it with intentional planning, clear communication, and emotional awareness. Structure protects stability by creating clear boundaries, defined household expectations, and consistent communication that reduces conflict. Shifting mentally from partners to roommates helps lower emotional intensity and makes daily interactions more functional and less reactive. Small triggers are less likely to escalate when boundaries are clear and communication stays respectful and intentional. Viewing this phase as temporary helps you stay focused on moving through it with stability and clarity instead of creating unnecessary long term damage. About the Guest Jenny Stevens is a divorce and life transition coach known as The Champion of Change. Based in Chicago and working with clients nationwide, she helps individuals navigate divorce, co-parenting, and major life transitions with clarity and confidence. With a Master’s in Professional Counseling, advanced training in conflict management and communication, and mediation training from Northwestern University, Jenny brings both clinical insight and real-world strategy to her work. She specializes in helping clients establish healthy boundaries, improve communication, and move through change in a way that protects their well-being and their children. WATCH THE EPISOE ON YOUTUBE Connect with Jenny Stevens Website: http://www.jennystevenscoach.com Other Episodes Mentioned:  What a Tsunami of Hard Times Taught Jenny Stevens About Surfing Life’s Changes Co-Parenting Under One Roof: 6 Tips to Make it Work - Part One - from Parenting Expert, Christina McGhee Co-Parenting Under One Roof: 6 Tips to Make it Work - Part Two - from Parenting Expert, Christina McGhee Special Episode Resource: The Under One Roof Divorce Survival Guide If you are navigating divorce while still living under the same roof, you do not have to figure this out alone. Access the companion blog and downloadable guide specifically for this phase called The Under One Roof Divorce Survival Guide. Inside, you’ll find the seven ground rules we discussed in this episode, along with practical worksheets you can use immediately to clarify boundaries, reset expectations, and reduce unnecessary conflict in your home. This guide will help you create structure, protect your peace, and move through this chapter with intention. Read the blog and download the guide here. https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/latest-episode Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************************************************************************** Special Offer from Yumiyu YUMIYU Jewelry is Susan’s favorite source for meaningful, handcrafted jewelry designed to empower women and celebrate individuality. Each piece is made with care, using high-quality materials like real gold and vermeil, and is water-resistant, non-tarnish, and hypoallergenic. During difficult times, like divorce, wearing a symbol of hope or protection—such as a hamsa or an evil eye—can be a comforting reminder to keep the faith and stay strong. As a special gift to my listeners, YUMIYU Jewelry is offering 20% off your purchase! Use the code "BEYOND" at checkout to claim your discount. Explore their stunning collection at yumiyujewelry.com and find your perfect piece today! Link: https://divorcebeyond.com/YUMIYU  Code: “BEYOND” for 20% off! ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM

Susan Guthrie welcomes special guest Michelle Farris for a powerful conversation about codependency, the hidden dynamic beneath many struggling relationships. Michelle is a licensed psychotherapist, codependency expert, and anger management specialist. Together, they explore what codependency really is, why it often begins in childhood, and how it can quietly shape both a marriage and the way a divorce unfolds. Susan and Michelle unpack the patterns of overgiving, overfunctioning, and self-sacrifice that leave so many people depleted and resentful, often without fully understanding why. They also explore why anger can erupt during divorce, how long-standing relationship patterns repeat when left unexamined, and what it takes to begin building boundaries and self-trust moving forward. This conversation is especially meaningful for anyone who feels stuck in one-sided relationships, struggles to say no, or wonders why they keep giving more than they receive. It offers an honest, practical look at how recognizing codependency can change not only your divorce, but everything that comes after it. What You’ll Learn Codependency is not about kindness. It is a pattern of overfunctioning to feel secure, often leaving you exhausted and resentful Why anger during divorce is often stored pain from years of saying yes when you meant no, and how to channel it constructively The difference between being nice and being clear, and why self-advocacy is essential for a healthy divorce process How overgiving, avoiding conflict, or agreeing too quickly can cost you emotionally and financially during divorce Why identifying your boundaries, triggers, and non-negotiables is key to approaching divorce from a grounded and empowered place About the Guest Michelle Farris is a psychotherapist, codependency expert, and anger management specialist with a passion for helping people break free from codependent patterns and manage emotions with confidence. She's been featured in several online publications and podcasts, known for her down-to-earth approach and expertise. Through her online courses and digital resources, she teaches practical tools for codependency recovery, emotional regulation, self-trust, and lasting relationship success. Connect with Michelle Farris Website: https://counselingrecovery.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MichelleFarrismft Grab Michelle’s Free Resource: 7 Steps to Healing One-sided Relationships https://counselingrecovery.lpages.co/codependent-relationship-freebie/ Special Episode Resource: The Codependent Divorce Mistakes That Cost You Thousands + Divorce Boundaries Planning Worksheet If this conversation is resonating with you, Susan has created a companion blog and downloadable resource, The Codependent Divorce Mistakes That Cost You Thousands. It includes a Divorce Boundaries Planning Worksheet to help you define your limits, recognize your emotional triggers, and approach your divorce from a more grounded and confident place. Read the blog post and download the worksheet here. https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/latest-episode Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************************************************************************** Special Offer from Blue Mercury Treat yourself to luxury skincare, makeup, and fragrance favorites from Blue Mercury, your destination for beauty and self-care. Divorce & Beyond listeners receive 15% off their first order when they use the special link in the show notes. Because you deserve to look and feel your best,  inside and out. You must use this link to receive the 15% off on your first Blue Mercury order: https://divorcebeyond.com/Blue-Mercury ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM

Divorce season is in full swing, and for many listeners, that means overwhelm, fear, and financial uncertainty. Susan Guthrie welcomes back two of her favorite returning experts, Karen Chellew and Catherine Shanahan of My Divorce Solution, to talk about what truly matters in the earliest days of divorce: financial clarity before legal action. Divorce may be a legal process, but in the beginning, it feels emotional and financial. Fear can drive rushed decisions. Anger can fuel unnecessary conflict. And too often, people hire attorneys before they understand what they actually own, owe, or need. Karen and Catherine specialize in helping individuals slow down, gather the facts, and understand what is truly in the marital “pie” before anyone starts slicing it up. Through their structured preparation platform and signature MDS Financial Portrait™, they help people turn panic into power and confusion into confidence. This conversation is about avoiding early mistakes, preventing unnecessary legal costs, and building a foundation that supports smart, informed decisions from day one. What You’ll Learn Why divorce should often begin with financial clarity, not immediate legal action How emotional agreements like “you keep the house, I’ll keep my retirement” can create long-term financial damage What really happens when couples rely on spreadsheets without full documentation The difference between financial literacy and financial empowerment during divorce How understanding the financial impact of decisions allows you to pivot confidently during negotiations Why assembling the right professional team depends on first understanding the complexity of your financial picture Episode Blog Article:  What Is the #1 Financial Mistake Before Filing for Divorce? Free Episode Resource: Before You File: Divorce Financial Readiness Checklist About the Guests  Catherine Shanahan, CDFA After 25 years in the financial industry, having raised five children and endured her own experience with divorce, Catherine became a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst (CDFA), trained Mediator and Daily Money Manager(PDMM). Catherine is collaboratively trained and was a member of the Bucks County Collaborative Law Group. She is a member of the  American Association of Daily Money Managers (AADMM) the Institute for Divorce Financial Analysts, and the Association of Divorce Financial Planners (ADFP). Catherine is fully dedicated to helping clients understand and navigate all aspects of divorce including planning a secure financial future post-divorce.  Karen Chellew, Legal Liaison  For over 30 years, Karen has worked in the legal field as a paralegal and business manager. During her career, she served as an affiliated member of the Pennsylvania Bar Association and President Elect of the ALA (Association of Legal Administrators). Karen now serves clients and the professional team in her role as legal liaison. She is also a certified QDRO Administrator, Founder and President of Sisters U Foundation, and an Auditor of East Rockhill Township. As the mom of three children and one granddaughter, Karen is extremely passionate about helping women in all that she does.    My Divorce Solution Through their professional and personal experiences, Karen Chellew and Catherine Shanahan have created a unique and comprehensive process that greets divorce in a whole new way – a way that empowers those who experience this major life transition. Our mission is simple: to help people move through the divorce process with financial clarity and confidence so they can make the rest of their lives the best of their lives. The MDS Financial Portrait™ is a compilation of data and financial records utilizing the family’s key and supporting documentation.  The MDS Financial Portrait provides a clear neutral snapshot of the family’s marital and non-marital estate for purposes of determining alimony, child support, and the division of assets and liabilities.  This comprehensive Portrait can then be used by divorce professionals as verification of marital/non-marital assets, and the blueprint when considering various scenarios, alternatives and the resulting implications of any financial decisions. Our services, specialties and certifications help individuals and couples develop a transparent and comprehensive financial plan that will optimize the outcome of their divorce.  We meet with couples in our virtual office so we can assist you no matter where you live! Connect with Karen and Catherine of My Divorce Solution Website: http://mydivorcesolution.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mydivorcesolution Podcast: https://mydivorcesolution.com/we-chat-divorce-podcast/ Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************************************************************************** A Special Offer from Yumiyu YUMIYU Jewelry is Susan’s favorite source for meaningful, handcrafted jewelry designed to empower women and celebrate individuality. Each piece is made with care, using high-quality materials like real gold and vermeil, and is water-resistant, non-tarnish, and hypoallergenic. During difficult times, like divorce, wearing a symbol of hope or protection—such as a hamsa or an evil eye—can be a comforting reminder to keep the faith and stay strong. As a special gift to my listeners, YUMIYU Jewelry is offering 20% off your purchase! Use the code "BEYOND" at checkout to claim your discount. Explore their stunning collection at yumiyujewelry.com and find your perfect piece today! Link: https://divorcebeyond.com/YUMIYU  Code: “BEYOND” for 20% off! ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM  

Dating again in midlife can stir up a mix of curiosity, hope, and very real hesitation. After divorce, it’s not just about meeting someone new, it’s about trusting your instincts and believing that love can feel different this time. Susan Guthrie welcomes back one of Divorce & Beyond’s most trusted and favorite guests, Bela Gandhi, for an honest, encouraging conversation about what it truly takes to move from fear to confidence when dating again in midlife. Known as America’s go-to dating coach and beloved by the Divorce & Beyond community, Bela brings warmth, optimism, and refreshingly practical wisdom to a chapter that often feels overwhelming. Together, Susan and Bela unpack why midlife dating can actually be better than ever, how to stop repeating old patterns that no longer serve you, and what smart, intentional dating looks like when you’re choosing differently and more consciously this time around. What You’ll Learn Why fear around dating after divorce is normal How those “rollercoaster butterflies” are usually a sign of anxiety, not chemistry, and how to recognize calm as a healthier sign of compatibility How dating today offers more options, visibility, and agency than ever before, especially for midlife daters Why confidence in dating comes from having a clear plan, not luck, timing, or instant sparks How slowing down and allowing connection to develop over time leads to better long-term outcomes About the Guest  Bela Gandhi is a dating/relationship expert, TEDx speaker, founder of Smart Dating AcademyÒ and has been featured on most national/local media outlets including Good Morning America, Steve Harvey, the Today Show, Kelly Clarkson, Access, ABC, NBC, Fox, and more.  Bela realized her gift for love when she was in college and started matchmaking and coaching her friends – watching them sail on to relationship bliss and marriage.  Using her own system, Bela found her own amazing husband of over 20 years, and in 2009, founded Smart Dating AcademyÒ.  Smart Dating Academy teaches singles all over the globe the Smart DatingÒ four phase system – 1) Preparing to Date, 2) Dating, 3) Exclusivity and 4) Happily Ever After.   They specialize in VIP 1:1 coaching, and with clients that have followed their system, they’ve had ‘zero divorces.’  They help singles to ‘fix their pickers’ because their coaches are deep in the weeds with clients, helping read profiles, message, and rate each date after it happens – she makes dating fun, easy and successful!   Before starting Smart Dating Academy, Bela earned dual degrees in Finance and German from the University of Illinois in Urbana/Champaign.  Bela worked in mergers and acquisitions for Arthur Andersen in Chicago for a year before joining her family's chemicals manufacturing company (called CCC), where she divided her time between Chicago and Europe helping to expand the business. When they sold the business to Fortune 500 company Akzo Nobel, she was asked to remain its leader and became Akzo Nobel Non-Stick Coating’s Global Vice President of Housewares.   While climbing the corporate ladder, she realized it was time to unveil her system to the world, and it was her best decision ever.  Bela lives in Lincoln Park with her husband Andy and 2 children, Jaden and Max, and is going to be an empty nester next year!    Connect with Bela Gandhi Website: http://smartdatingacademy.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/smartdatingacademy Podcast: https://www.smartdatingacademy.com/podcast The Midlife Dating Mindset Reset Guide Download Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************************************************************************** Special Offer from Blue Mercury Treat yourself to luxury skincare, makeup, and fragrance favorites from Blue Mercury, your destination for beauty and self-care. Divorce & Beyond listeners receive 15% off their first order when they use the special link in the show notes. Because you deserve to look and feel your best,  inside and out. You must use this link to receive the 15% off on your first Blue Mercury order: https://divorcebeyond.com/Blue-Mercury ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM

Gray divorce is one of the fastest-growing divorce trends, yet it remains one of the least talked-about experiences. It is not just the end of a marriage. It is the unraveling of decades of shared life, identity, routines, and expectations. In this episode, Susan Guthrie is joined by gray divorce coach Maryjane Sweet, whom she first met when they were both featured on the Oprah Podcast in a powerful conversation about gray divorce. Maryjane appeared alongside her adult daughter, and their story stood out for its honesty, depth, and the grace with which Maryjane navigated this life-altering transition. Together, Susan and Maryjane explore what it truly takes to move through gray divorce with intention, emotional awareness, and integrity. They discuss why gray divorce can feel especially destabilizing, particularly when it arrives unexpectedly, and how the losses extend far beyond the marriage itself. The conversation dives into grief, identity shifts, nervous system overwhelm, and the invisible emotional labor women carry as they work to hold themselves and their families together during profound change. This is not a conversation about quick fixes. It is about honoring loss, building emotional safety, and discovering what gray divorce can give back on the other side. What You’ll Learn Why gray divorce is not just a legal ending, but a profound emotional and identity shift after decades of shared life Why rituals around loss, such as leaving a family home or removing wedding rings, help create closure and support healing How daily anchors like sleep, nourishment, movement, and connection are essential tools during divorce Why adult children are deeply impacted by gray divorce and how parents can model integrity, resilience, and self-compassion How focusing on how you want to feel can help guide decisions when the future feels like a black hole Why coaching support can be critical during gray divorce and how it helps women move forward without getting stuck in the past About the Guest  Maryjane is a gray divorce coach and consultant. She combines the lived experience of ending a 26-year marriage with deep professional training to help women navigate the emotional and practical complexities of gray divorce. She holds a master's in Organizational Behavior and is an !CF-certified PCC coach with over 1,500 client hours worldwide. She's trained in mindfulness and meditation through Duke University, is a certified trauma-informed yoga instructor, and has taught university courses on well-being and neuroscience-based stress regulation. With more than twenty years in leadership development and human transformation, she offers women a grounded, evidence-based pathway through midlife divorce - one that honors both the unraveling and the rising. Connect with Maryjane Sweet Website: http://maryjanesweet.com Instagram: @thegreydivorcecoach Blog Article + Free Downloadable Resource 📝 Rituals for Grief in Gray Divorce: Why Closure Matters In this companion article, Susan explores why gray divorce requires more than legal resolution. It requires emotional closure. Drawing from this conversation, she explains how intentional rituals, such as marking the end of a marriage, leaving a longtime home, or acknowledging decades of shared life, can help the nervous system process loss and support healing during profound transition. You’ll also find a simple, downloadable resource designed to help you reflect on what closure might look like for you. Read here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/blog *************************************************** Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************************************************************************** Special Offer from Blue Mercury Treat yourself to luxury skincare, makeup, and fragrance favorites from Blue Mercury, your destination for beauty and self-care. Divorce & Beyond listeners receive 15% off their first order when they use the special link in the show notes. Because you deserve to look and feel your best,  inside and out. You must use this link to receive the 15% off on your first Blue Mercury order: https://divorcebeyond.com/Blue-Mercury ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM

It was never about the dishes… It’s about mental load, invisible labor, and power inside modern marriage. To dig into why so many women feel this strain inside their marriages, Susan Guthrie is joined by Kate Anthony, a globally recognized divorce coach, feminist thought leader, and the author of The D Word: Making the Ultimate Decision About Your Marriage. Kate is also the creator and host of the top-ranked Divorce Survival Guide Podcast. Together, Susan and Kate talk candidly about how deeply ingrained expectations still shape modern relationships, often in ways people don’t recognize until the damage is done. They explore why patriarchy harms women while also isolating men, what real partnership actually looks like in practice, and how patterns like deflection, denial, and  quietly erode trust over time. The conversation also addresses the very real impact these dynamics have on women’s emotional and physical safety, and why naming them clearly can be a powerful first step toward change. What You’ll Learn How mental load becomes a proxy for deeper issues of power, responsibility, and respect How patriarchy shapes modern marriage in ways that harm women while also isolating men and fueling resentment What real partnership looks like in practice and why occasional help is not the same as shared ownership What it often means when one partner says they were “blindsided” by divorce and how invisible labor plays a role Why naming these dynamics clearly can be a critical first step toward safety, clarity, and meaningful change About the Guest Kate Anthony is a feminist thought leader, divorce coach, and author of The D Word: Making the Ultimate Decision About Your Marriage. As the host of The Divorce Survival Guide Podcast (3.5M+ downloads; globally ranked in the top 0.5%), Kate brings fierce clarity and grounded compassion to conversations about coercive control, codependency, and the complex dynamics that shape women’s relationships and choices. For well over a decade, Kate has guided women through the emotional and practical challenges of deciding whether to stay or leave their marriages, helping them rebuild self-trust, navigate high-conflict partners, and dismantle patriarchal conditioning. Her work blends feminist analysis, relational insight, and practical communication tools that empower women to make safe, self-led decisions. Kate is also developing a groundbreaking project exploring true crime as women’s survival literature, illuminating the coercive control patterns and systemic failures embedded in headline cases. Connect with Kate Anthony Website: http://kateanthony.com Instagram: @kateanthony_divorcecoach Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************************************************************************** Special Offer from Blue Mercury Treat yourself to luxury skincare, makeup, and fragrance favorites from Blue Mercury, your destination for beauty and self-care. Divorce & Beyond listeners receive 15% off their first order when they use the special link in the show notes. Because you deserve to look and feel your best,  inside and out. You must use this link to receive the 15% off on your first Blue Mercury order: https://divorcebeyond.com/Blue-Mercury ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM  

For many people quietly navigating divorce season, one question lingers beneath the surface: Is this just a rough season, or is this relationship truly over? In this powerful and deeply honest episode of Divorce & Beyond, Susan Guthrie sits down with renowned psychotherapist Dr. Jenn Mann to explore how to tell the difference, and why clarity, not guilt, is often the most caring path forward. Inspired by Dr. Jenn’s widely shared insight, “Not every relationship is meant to be saved,” this conversation goes far beyond the familiar stay-or-leave debate. Together, Susan and Dr. Jenn examine how therapy can sometimes help repair a marriage and other times provide the clarity needed to trust yourself enough to let go. They discuss the emotional cost of staying too long, the deal breakers people often rationalize away, and why ending a marriage can be an act of courage and strength rather than failure. This is a compassionate, nuanced conversation for anyone questioning what comes next. What You’ll Learn in This Episode How to tell the difference between a rough season and a relationship that has truly run its course Why therapy is not always about fixing the marriage, but often about gaining clarity The deal breakers people ignore for years, including emotional unavailability and refusal to seek help Why “staying for the kids” is far more complex than it sounds and what children actually absorb How leaving a marriage can build confidence, resilience, and deeper self-trust About the Guest Dr. Jenn Mann is one of the most widely recognized psychotherapists in the country, with nearly three decades of clinical experience as a licensed Marriage, Family, and Child Therapist (LMFT). She is best known as the longtime host and therapist on VH1’s hit series Couples Therapy with Dr. Jenn and Family Therapy with Dr. Jenn, and has appeared as a trusted expert on hundreds of television programs, including The Today Show, Dr. Oz, The Wendy Williams Show, The Doctors, Steve Harvey, Entertainment Tonight, Access Hollywood, and Jimmy Kimmel Live. Dr. Jenn is the author of multiple bestselling books, including The Relationship Fix, SuperBaby, and The A to Z Guide to Raising Happy Confident Kids, which have collectively spent weeks on national bestseller lists. She is also the co-author of the children’s book Rockin’ Babies, written with her mother, Grammy-award-winning songwriter Cynthia Weil. In addition to her television and publishing work, Dr. Jenn hosted The Dr. Jenn Show on SiriusXM for five years and has contributed award-winning writing to national parenting and family publications. She lives in Beverly Hills, California, with her partner and twin daughters. 🔗 Dr. Jenn Mann’s Book: The Relationship Fix https://amzn.to/3LtS4If 📲 Connect with Dr. Jenn Mann: Instagram: @drjennmann Website: https://doctorjenn.com/   Blog Article + Free Downloadable Resource 📝 Staying for the Kids? What Children Actually Absorb From Unhappy Marriages This companion article explores why children are deeply sensitive to emotional environments and how thoughtful decisions, whether staying or leaving, shape their long-term wellbeing. Read here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/blog   🎁 Free Download: Staying for the Kids? A Clarity Worksheet for Thoughtful Parents A supportive, non-judgmental reflection tool to help parents think through these questions without pressure or fear. Download here: https://divorcebeyond.com/stayingforthekids   You’ll find the article, the worksheet, and the full episode on the latest episode page at divorceandbeyondpod.com. Make the Most of Your Listening Experience If this episode resonated with you: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode Share this episode with someone who may need clarity, reassurance, or hope Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners Follow Divorce & Beyond 🌐 Website: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com 📸 Instagram: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Your Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a bestselling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as a featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, sharing insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her work has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of podcasts worldwide with millions of downloads, Susan brings together trusted experts and powerful lived experiences to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence and hope. Learn more at https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/about   A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through divorce? Hello Divorce offers a guided online platform that combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support, helping you reduce stress, confusion, and costs. 🎧 Divorce & Beyond listeners can explore a special page here: https://hellodivorce.com/susan Special Offer from Blue Mercury Treat yourself to luxury skincare, makeup, and fragrance from Blue Mercury, your destination for beauty and self-care. 💄 Divorce & Beyond listeners receive 15% off their first order when using the special link in the show notes. Because you deserve to feel your best, inside and out. 🔗 https://divorcebeyond.com/Blue-Mercury Opportunities for Experts and Fellow Podcasters Interested in partnering with Divorce & Beyond or appearing as a guest? Learn more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities Disclaimer The commentary and opinions expressed on this podcast are for informational and educational purposes only and do not constitute legal advice. You should consult an attorney licensed in your state regarding any specific legal issue.