Take 5 with Dan Sultan

Dan Sultan is one of Australia's finest voices. Over the past two decades, he's dabbled in rock, country, soul, even a kids album. But it's on his most recent record, Little Miracles, that he feels like he's finally closer to reaching his full potential. It's a heartfelt expression of self, expansive and epic, full of strings, gospel, and pure sunshine.The album came together in an improbable burst of creativity with legendary songwriter and producer Guy Chambers, (the man behind some of Robbie Williams' biggest hits), and was written and recorded in just 12 days. The title came from Chambers himself, who described the sessions as "a time of little miracles." For Dan, it was the culmination of a journey through mental health struggles and addiction, and a regret held for over a decade which he was finally able to resolve, proof that sometimes the right moment finds you when you're ready.To celebrate 20 years of Take 5, Double J has been recording special live conversations in record stores around the country. After last week's episode with The Presets at Crosstalk Records in Sydney, Zan Rowe crammed into the charming Music Farmers on Dharawal country in Wollongong for a sunny Sunday session with Dan. His theme was five 'miracles' in song, and Dan chose his tracks because of the artists who sing them. All are vocalists he says can't be compared to anyone else.Dan Sultan's song choices: Mr. Bungle - 'Pink Cigarette'Gillian Welch - 'I Made a Lover's Prayer'Uncle Frank Yamma - 'She Cried'Aaron Neville - 'Ave Maria'Dolly Parton, Linda Ronstadt & Emmylou Harris (Trio) - 'High Sierra'00:00 Introduction: Dan Sultan, Five Miracles at Music Farmers01:19 Celebrating 20 Years of Take Five in Record Stores01:40 First Song: Mr. Bungle 'Pink Cigarette'02:13 Mike Patton: "You Can't Really Compare Him to Anyone Else"03:16 The Chili Peppers vs. Mr. Bungle: Label Drama and Big Voices05:09 Rejecting Expectations: "I Don't Like Qualifiers on My Art"06:21 "Things Weren't Easy When I Was Little": Music as a Rock08:13 Seeking Out Guy Chambers: A Long-Held Regret09:16 Mental Health, Addiction, and Getting Sober09:45 Guy on a Pedestal: "It Was a Regret I'd Come to Terms With"11:26 Seven Years to the Second: The Little Miracle12:44 "I Wasn't Able to Get Past a Certain Ceiling"13:51 "We Wrote the Record in 12 Days"14:05 "A Time of Little Miracles": Naming the Album16:44 Second Song: Gillian Welch 'I Made a Lover's Prayer'17:15 The Soul Journey Record: Beauty That's Bottomless19:57 Finding a Creative Partner Eight Records In21:31 'Can't Be For Nothing': A New Corner of the Universe Opens Up26:50 Third Song: Uncle Frank Yamma 'She Cried'27:04 "If Frank Lived in a Different Country, a Lot More People Would Know"29:48 Fourth Song: Aaron Neville 'Ave Maria'30:05 Aaron Neville on Sesame Street: The Power of Restraint33:45 Singing Other People's Songs: Empathy and Performance37:39 Fifth Song: Dolly Parton, Linda Ronstadt & Emmylou Harris 'High Sierra'38:01 Three Icons Together: Linda Ronstadt's Voice Cuts Right Through41:25 "I'm Proud of You, Too": Dan and Zan's Long Friendship43:20 Zan's Wrap-Up: Next Stop, Kate Miller-Heidke in Melbourne

The Presets are Australian electronic music royalty.From their beginnings as classically trained percussion students at the Sydney Conservatorium of Music to their breakthrough as synth-wielding dancefloor destroyers, Julian Hamilton and Kim Moyes have spent three decades making music that refuses to sit still. Their 2008 album Apocalypso made them the first electronic act to win the ARIA for Album of the Year, and singles like "My People" became anthems for a generation.Before The Presets, there was Prop: a minimalist percussion ensemble blending Steve Reich with spacey synths. The transformation from that to "caveman synth rock" happened one afternoon in Kim's living room in Erskineville, jamming AC/DC riffs on synthesizers. The rest is history: EPs, beloved records, international tours, and a legacy that helped define Australian electronic music.Now they are celebrating that era with Forever After, a festival brimming with noughties legends like Cut Copy, Ladyhawke, Bag Raiders, and the spirit of Daft Punk's infamous Never Everland 2007. Recorded in front of a live audience at Crosstalk Records in Sydney, Jules and Kim theme was First Contact: the songs that made their universe a much bigger place.The Presets' song choices: Kraftwerk - 'Tour de France'The Cure - 'A Forest'Trans Am - 'Futureworld'Single Gun Theory - 'Fall' (Abstract Gladiators remix)Daft Punk - 'Da Funk'00:00 Introduction: The Presets, First Contact at Crosstalk Records01:20 Record Stores: Pre-Streaming Days and Musical Education03:52 First Song: Kraftwerk 'Tour de France'04:18 Breakdance: The Movie That Changed Everything for Jules09:58 Kim's Childhood: From Bon Jovi to Hip-Hop11:06 Sex Pistols on the Train: Punk Opens the Door12:00 Second Song: The Cure 'A Forest'15:22 Living in Headphones: Music as Catharsis18:02 Meeting at the Conservatorium and Forming Prop19:19 Julian's Dad's Synth: "I Think This Is It"22:48 Jamming AC/DC Riffs on Synths: The First Presets Session20:21 Third Song: Trans Am 'Futurworld'24:13 "Caveman Synth Rock": The Birth of The Presets28:21 Fourth Song: Single Gun Theory, 'Fall'31:17 Climbing the Anzac Bridge (Under Construction)36:35 The Big Day Out Boiler Room: Electronic Meets Mainstream37:48 "Shared Witness": 30 Years of Making Music Together40:48 'My People' Live for the First Time at 50,000 People44:06 Sound Relief: Playing in the Rain at the SCG45:16 Fifth Song: Daft Punk 'Da Funk'49:57 Zan's Wrap-Up: Aus Music Month on Double J

Legendary Brisbane band Powderfinger broke the internet when they announced a long-awaited reunion tour.The band sold out 26 shows across the country, and today announced extra shows, new cities, and an epic line-up of all-Australian support acts.Joining them on the road next year will be bands like Violent Soho, Thelma Plum, Ball Park Music, You Am I, Something For Kate, The Living End, John Butler Trio, Teen Jesus and the Jean Teasers + more.Bernard Fanning and Darren Middleton joined Zan Rowe to talk about what prompted the reunion, and how they feel about being back on stage next year. 

Take 5 is turning 20!It started back in 2006 as a weekly radio segment on triple j, and since then it's grown into an award-winning podcast, and a beloved TV show in its sixth season.The list of people who have graced the Take 5 is epic: Lorde, Jack Antonoff, Kevin Bacon, Paul Kelly, Mel C from the Spice Girls, Bernard Fanning, there's even been a Beatle (Sir Paul McCartney!).To mark this special 20th anniversary, Zan Rowe has dug into some old shoe boxes and dusted off minidiscs and DAT tapes to bring to you a selection of vintage Take 5s.These special episodes haven't been heard by anyone in nearly 2 decades.From an absolute treasure trove of conversations, you'll hear from Calvin Harris, Anna Calvi, Aloe Blacc, DJ Annie Mac, and punk rock legend Denis from Refused.20 Years of Take 5 songs:AC / DC - 'Back In Black' (picked by Denis from Refused)Little Dragon - 'Ritual Union' (picked by DJ Annie Mac)Foo Fighters - 'Best of You' (picked by Aloe Blacc)David Bowie - 'Sound And Vision' (picked by Anna Calvi)Groove Armada - 'Get Down' (picked by Calvin Harris)00:00 Introduction: 20 Years of Take 501:33 Dennis Lyxzén from Refused: The Reformation04:15 "The Shape of Punk to Come": Ahead of the Curve08:24 Rehearsals and Coachella: "The Best Band We Could Possibly Ever Be"10:42 First song: AC/DC 'Back in Black'12:22 Annie Mac: BBC Radio 1 and the Friday Night Show17:07 Second song: Little Dragon 'Ritual Union'21:13 Aloe Blacc: From Hip Hop to Soul25:31 Cat Stevens, Joni Mitchell and the Rat Pack: College Discoveries26:52 Third song: Foo Fighters 'Best of You'29:48 Anna Calvi: Songs of Desire and the Laneway Festival33:42 Ennio Morricone, Bowie and a Roman Grandfather's Tangos36:03 Fourth song: David Bowie 'Sound And Vision'38:09 Calvin Harris: Amiga Trackers and Bedroom Production42:38 Working with Kylie and Kathy Dennis: "Bring the Party"44:37 Fifth song: Groove Armada 'Get Down' 46:40 20 Years Later: Take Five as a Time Capsule

Pia Miranda is joy personified.From her first TV gig on Neighbours, where her character Karen dated Toadie and made a dramatic final exit from the show holding a pavlova, to her breakthrough turn as Josie in Looking for Alibrandi, she has been one of Australia's most beloved screen actors for 25 years. But it's her second act that's surprised everyone, including herself: winning Australian Survivor in a unanimous vote, singing in a thong costume (the footwear kind) on The Masked Singer, and now co-hosting ABC TV's Recipe of the Year.Growing up Irish-Italian Australian in Melbourne, Pia trained as a ballet dancer and dreamed of being Judy Garland. She studied performance art at university, imagined a future in avant-garde dance, and instead became the unofficial ambassador for a generation's coming-of-age experience. Looking for Alibrandi wasn't just a film, it became a cultural touchstone.Her north star is simple: if something brings joy, she says yes. She is warm, funny, and completely herself, a quality she credits, in part, to an encounter with R.E.M.'s Michael Stipe on Melbourne's Chapel Street in 1995.Pia Miranda's 'joie de vivre' songs: Pulp - 'This is Hardcore'Judy Garland - 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow'R.E.M. - 'It's the End of the World as We Know It (and I Feel Fine)'Cat Stevens - 'Miles from Nowhere'Umberto Tozzi - 'Gloria'00:00 Introduction: Pia Miranda, Joy Personified01:15 Saying Yes: "Something Scares Me, But I'll Do It Anyway"04:12 First Song: Pulp, 'This is Hardcore'04:26 Jarvis Cocker: The Hall Pass and a Life-Changing Live Show09:51 1998: CDs, Share Houses and Peak '90s10:42 Neighbours: Karen, Toadie and the Pavlova Exit14:14 Looking for Alibrandi: "We're Really Good in That"19:34 Second Song: Judy Garland, 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow'19:55 The Wizard of Oz: "It's Pia's Night"24:20 Recipe of the Year: The CWA and the Joy of Food28:44 Third Song: R.E.M., 'It's the End of the World as We Know It (and I Feel Fine)'29:04 Free Tickets and Chapel Street: When R.E.M. Came to Town34:47 Australian Survivor: "I Actually Won"40:13 The Masked Singer: Playing Thong42:45 Fourth Song: Cat Stevens, 'Miles from Nowhere'42:57 Freedom and Travel: The Walkman Dream48:30 Origin Odyssey: Italian Identity and "Cousins Everywhere"53:53 Final Song: Umberto Tozzi, 'Gloria'56:53 Zan's Wrap-Up: 20 Years of Take 5Watch Recipe of the Year on ABC iview: Recipe of the Year - ABC iview

Take 5 is celebrating 20 years, and we're marking the milestone with something special.Zan Rowe is bringing the show to record stores around the country for four intimate, live conversations with some of Australia's most loved artists:The PresetsKate Miller-HeidkeDan SultanJohn ButlerEach guest takes on a theme and chooses five songs that speak to it, and what unfolds is always unexpected.All four live Take 5s will drop right here on the pod throughout November as part of Aus Music Month.PLUS: before those live shows, we've got a couple of extra special conversations coming your way. Kicking off next week, actor Pia Miranda, one of Australia's most accomplished performers, from Looking for Alibrandi to winning Australian Celebrity Survivor, The Masked Singer, Dancing With the Stars, and currently co-hosting ABC TV's Recipe of the Year. And right after that, we bring you one of the most exciting artists of the last decade: Sampa The Great, returning to Take 5 for another chapter in her extraordinary evolution.So hit follow, favourite this podcast, subscribe, do whatever you need to get ready for a season of Take 5 that'll shift your perspective, make you laugh, introduce you to new songs, and maybe even make you cry.And while you wait, there's plenty of great Take 5 episodes to explore, from Paul McCartney and Peaches to Tom Waits and TV on the Radio. Take 5 has been a radio and podcast favourite for 20 years. Let's celebrate.Watch and listen:Take 5 on ABC iview: https://iview.abc.net.au/show/take-5-with-zan-roweOther Take 5 episodes you might like:Paul McCartney Takes 5 - triple jTake 5 with Peaches - ABC listenTom Waits' songs that inspired 'Bad As Me' - ABC listenTake 5 with TV On The Radio - ABC listen

Vika and Linda Bull are national treasures.From their early days singing backing vocals with Joe Camilleri and The Black Sorrows to breaking out on their own with acclaimed records, they're part of the very fabric of Australian music, and they do it all in harmony. Their voices have soundtracked decades of Australian life, but it's the story behind those voices that makes them extraordinary.Growing up in the Melbourne suburb of Doncaster, they lived between two worlds: ordinary suburban school life during the week, and the rich, Tongan culture of their mother's homeland every Sunday at church. It was there, surrounded by four-hour services of soaring Tongan choral singing, that they learned harmony, not through formal lessons, but by feeling the floor vibrate beneath them. Their mother, a Tongan nurse who married an Australian man, taught them their parts at age five: Vika the high, Linda the low. A split that would define their sound for the next four decades.Their career path was never straightforward. They started in their own band before taking a deliberate side step to join The Black Sorrows as backing vocalists; a six-year apprenticeship under Joe Camilleri that taught them everything from studio technique to stagecraft. It was Vika's voice on "Chained to the Wheel" that transformed the song, and the band's fortunes. But eventually, the pull to tell their own stories became too strong. A difficult conversation with Joe, encouragement from Paul Kelly to try writing, and a year of Thursday afternoon songwriting sessions set them on a new path.This year, they released an incredibly personal new album reflecting on identity, culture, and mid-life (Where Do You Come From?). They were also inducted into the ARIA Hall of Fame, an honour that still bewilders two women who started as "a couple of backing singers."This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe at Bakehouse Studios in Melbourne, a rehearsal room the Bull sisters know intimately. They were warm, funny, and deeply emotional in exploring their extraordinary life across five songs.Vika and Linda Bull's song choices: The Maopa Choir and Band - 'Halleluia Chorus (from The Messiah)'The Rolling Stones - 'Gimme Shelter'Bob Marley and The Wailers - 'Could You Be Loved'The Finn Brothers - 'Edible Flowers'The Staple Singers - 'Respect Yourself'00:00 Introduction: Vika and Linda Bull, National Treasures01:55 Childhood in Doncaster: Singing at Church at Five Years Old04:15 First Song: The Maopa Choir and Band, 'Halleluia Chorus (from The Messiah)' 07:11 Two Worlds: Suburban Doncaster and Tongan Culture14:15 Visiting Tonga: "One of the Best Times of My Life"15:51 Second Song: The Rolling Stones, 'Gimme Shelter'20:58 Chained to the Wheel: Stepping Up in The Black Sorrows23:21 Leaving The Black Sorrows: "We Gotta Give It a Crack"27:44 Third Song: Bob Marley and The Wailers, 'Could You Be Loved'30:48 Paul Kelly: "You Should Try Writing Songs"35:21 The New Album: "Not Scared Anymore"37:18 The Memoir: Finding the Confidence to Tell Their Story38:46 The Punk and the Prefect: "Sisters First, Singer Second"41:15 Fourth Song: The Finn Brothers, 'Edible Flowers'45:06 Tim and Neil Finn: Sibling Harmony and Songwriting Lessons47:23 Final Song: The Staple Singers, 'Respect Yourself'51:38 ARIA Hall of Fame: "We Never Thought That Would Happen"54:29 Zan's Wrap-Up: Season 5 FinaleThis episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. You can stream the whole season on ABC iview now.Watch this episode of Take 5 on ABC iview https://iview.abc.net.au/show/take-5-with-zan-rowe

Genesis Owusu is one of Australia's most thrilling new artists.Born Kofi Owusu-Ansah, he immigrated to Canberra with his family when he was just two years old. Almost immediately he felt like an odd one out. And he used that feeling to get weird.20 odd years later, his music, visuals, and storytelling has resonated with millions. He's won the ARIA for Album of the Year twice (first for Smiling with No Teeth in 2021, and then with Struggler in 2023), and leads the nominations again this year for his third album, Redstar Wu & the Worldwide Scourge. All across the world people sing his praises. Barack Obama has a Genesis song on his summer playlist ('Gold Chains'). And he's done it all, his way.Genesis Owusu's song choices: Cibo Matto - 'Birthday Cake'N.E.R.D. - 'Rock Star'Lupe Fiasco - 'American Terrorist [Ft. Matthew Santos]'Prince - 'All the Critics Love U in New York'Tyler, The Creator - 'I Think'00:00 Introduction: From Ghana to ARIA Award-Winning Musician02:06 Early Life: Family, Music, and Immigrating to Canberra04:50 First song: Cibo Matto, 'Birthday Cake' & Jet Set Radio Future06:35 "Ugly Was Also to Be Appreciated": Why Every Album Opens Abrasive07:23 The Biggest Creative Influence: Jet Set Radio Future & Video Game Soundtracks09:29 First Ever Favorite Song: Wu Tang Clan, 'Gravel Pit' (via the Original Xbox)11:35 Second song: N.E.R.D, 'Rock Star' & Finding His Identity20:08 The Tree Dream: A One-Man Band Playing to All the School Kids21:34 First Rap: The Ansah Brothers & Parents' Reaction25:35 Third song: Lupe Fiasco, 'American Terrorist' & Political Awakening35:33 Fourth song: Prince, 'All the Critics Love U in New York' & Making Smiling With No Teeth41:47 Winning the ARIA for Album of the Year46:14 Side Quests: Learning New Skills Beyond Music49:41 Fifth song: Tyler, The Creator, 'I Think' & The Power of the Album51:32 Solange's Unsung Influence on Music Videos54:59 Fear of Stagnation & Staying True to the 10-Year-Old's Mission57:55 Wrap-Up & Next Episode Preview of Vika & Linda BullThis episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. You can stream the whole season on ABC iview now.Watch this episode of Take 5 on ABC iview https://iview.abc.net.au/show/take-5-with-zan-roweTake 5: live in record storesThis November, we're heading into record stores with some very special guests - and we want you to come along.Zan Rowe will visit four record stores in New South Wales and Victoria to record rare, intimate live episodes of the Take 5 podcast, which celebrates 20 years in 2026.She's pulled out the Rolodex for this one, convincing Aussie legends The Presets, Dan Sultan, Kate Miller-Heidke, and her old mate John Butler to come along for the ride.Find out all the details here.

Lainey Wilson is a force of nature.Raised in the tiny farming town of Baskin, Louisiana (population 170) she grew up between corn fields and country radio, where music wasn't a genre but a way of life. From writing her first song at nine years old to hauling a camper trailer to Nashville at 19, her path to becoming one of country music's biggest stars was anything but overnight. It took a decade of hustle, a Hannah Montana wig, and an unshakable belief that if she could just get one opportunity, she could do the rest.Now she's selling out arenas across the world, winning back-to-back CMA Entertainer of the Year awards, starring in Yellowstone, and counting Dolly Parton as a friend who called her "sister." Through it all, her southern charm and small-town values remain her compass; ride horses, sit on the front porch with your dogs, and never forget who you are.This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe. Lainey was warm, funny, and generous in sharing her extraordinary journey across five songs. The theme that emerged was clear: staying grounded is a choice you make every day, and being yourself is the bravest thing you can do.Lainey Wilson's song choices: Mel McDaniel - 'Louisiana Saturday Night'Lee Ann Womack - 'I Hope You Dance'CCR - 'Lookin' Out My Back Door'Brothers Osborne - 'I'm Not For Everyone'Tim McGraw - 'Humble and Kind'00:00 If Dolly Parton Believes in Me, Then I'm Fine00:24 From Yellowstone to CMA Entertainer of the Year: "Cowgirl of the Night"00:52 Daddy's Wisdom: "If You Tell All Your Business, You Ain't Got None"02:44 First song: Mel McDaniel, 'Louisiana Saturday Night'09:24 Nine Years Old in Nashville: "This Feels Like Home"12:43 The Hannah Montana Impersonator: Five Years of Birthday Parties14:39 Second song: Lee Ann Womack, 'I Hope You Dance'19:00 Nashville Is a 10-Year Town and It Was Spot On20:13 19 Years Old, 2011: A Camper Trailer Hauled to Nashville23:19 Heart Like a Truck: The Breakthrough Single25:59 Third song: CCR, 'Looking Out My Back Door'30:13 Yellowstone, Grammys, and CMA Entertainer of the Year: "Since Taylor Swift"30:49 "My Mind Is Always Racing": ADHD and the Song 'Can't Sit Still'33:00 Fourth song: Brothers Osborne, 'I'm Not For Everyone'37:52 TJ Coming Out as Gay: "Is Country Becoming More Welcoming?"42:01 Fifth song: Tim McGraw, 'Humble and Kind'45:09 Writing a Letter to Tim McGraw at 18: "All I Need Is an Opportunity"47:07 Mama Meeting Dolly: "You're Like My Sister"49:13 New Album: "Showing a Different Side and Pushing the Boundaries"50:51 Zan's Wrap-Up: "I Could Listen to Her Speak All Day Long"51:11 Watch Take 5 With Shania Twain on ABC iview51:22 Next Time: Genesis Owusu51:58 From Ghana to Canberra: "We Don't Have Time for the Honey and the Dress-Ups"52:21 Season 5 of Take 5 With Zan Rowe. Stream on ABC iviewThis episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. You can stream the whole season on ABC iview now.Watch this episode of Take 5 on ABC iview https://iview.abc.net.au/show/take-5-with-zan-rowe

Jacinda Ardern is a history-maker.As Prime Minister of New Zealand at 37, she became only the second woman in the world to give birth while in office. But it was her leadership style that defined her time at the top, leading with empathy and kindness in the face of back-to-back tragedies, and showing the strength of coming together.From growing up in small-town New Zealand singing country and western duets with her sister at the local community hall, to raging to Smashing Pumpkins in her first car with a discman plugged into the cassette deck, Ardern's musical taste has always been eclectic and deeply personal. She's the teenager who loved alternative music and heavy metal while being a dedicated student rep raised in the Mormon faith, and the world leader who chose a drum and bass track as her walk-on song.Her career path was never straightforward. She ran from the possibility of becoming a politician, buying a one-way ticket to New York to escape the suggestion she should run for office. But a sense of responsibility (what she calls her "oversized sense of duty"), kept pulling her back. In 2017, everything changed in a single year: a by-election, deputy leadership, then the top job itself, all while secretly pregnant. She led her country through the Christchurch mosque shootings, the Whakaari White Island eruption, and a global pandemic, all while insisting that being human is not a weakness.This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe at the Australian Chamber Orchestra's studios on Sydney Harbour. Jacinda caught the ferry to the location, rolling up without any entourage, proving just how down-to-earth she is. She was candid, emotional, and generous in exploring her extraordinary life across five songs. The theme that emerged was clear: optimism as a courageous act, and the enduring power of being useful.Jacinda Ardern's song choices: Smashing Pumpkins - 'Bullet With Butterfly Wings'Fat Freddy's Drop - 'Wandering Eye'Cat Stevens - 'Peace Train'The Mountain Goats - 'This Year'Shapeshifter - 'Stars'00:00 Introduction: Jacinda Ardern Made History00:54 "They Are Us": Leading with Empathy and Kindness05:11 Song One: Smashing Pumpkins, 'Bullet With Butterfly Wings'08:01 Teenage Angst: Rage Against the Machine, Metallica, Pantera, Nine Inch Nails15:04 Song Two: Fat Freddy's Drop, 'Wandering Eye'15:46 Sworn In as PM: Fat Freddy's Drop Playing on Parliament Steps21:25 Cognitive Dissonance: Progressive Politics and the Church22:02 Leaving the Church: "Something Had to Give"25:39 Secretly Pregnant During Coalition Negotiations27:49 Song Three: Cat Stevens, 'Peace Train'28:55 Yusuf Islam Coming to New Zealand After the March 15 Terror Attack33:13 The Christchurch Mosque Shootings: Finding Out in Bits34:47 "Simply a Human Response": Why Emotion Isn't Weakness37:25 "A Sadness I'll Carry for the Rest of My Life"38:21 Song Four: The Mountain Goats, 'This Year'41:19 Christchurch, Whakaari, COVID: "It Was Relentless"45:43 "Nothing Left in the Tank"46:54 "I Am Human. Politicians Are Human."49:10 Song Five: Shapeshifter, 'Stars'52:06 The Coffee Date with Clarke: Surprising Each Other56:10 "15-Year-Old Jacinda Would Be Very Surprised. But I Think She'd Be Proud."58:29 Zan's Wrap-Up: The Only World Leader with Drum and Bass as a Walk-On Song58:44 Filmed at the ACO Studios on Sydney Harbour59:10 Next Time: Lainey Wilson59:55 Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe. Stream on ABC iviewThis episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. You can stream the whole season on ABC iview now.Watch this episode of Take 5 on ABC iviewhttps://iview.abc.net.au/show/take-5-with-zan-rowe