Why Smart Brands Still Make Bad Decisions

Ryan Hamilton is an associate professor of marketing at Emory University and co-author of The Growth Dilemma. As co-host of The Intuitive Customer podcast, he brings behavioral science to life through real-world brand strategy. This week on On Brand, Ryan joins me to explore why customer decisions aren’t as rational as we think, how brands can grow without losing their soul, and what he’s learned working with companies like Walmart and Visa. About Ryan Hamilton Ryan Hamilton is an associate professor of marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School. He has consulted on branding with Walmart, FedEx, Home Depot, Caterpillar, ConAgra, Cigna, Visa, and Ipsos, among others, and has been a keynote speaker. He cohosts a podcast, called The Intuitive Customer, which applies the insights of behavioral science to customer experience. He has produced lecture series on both marketing and human decision making for The Great Courses. He's also the co-author of the book, The Growth Dilemma. What brand has made Ryan smile recently? Ryan shared a smile he got via a birthday gift from his wife. The gift? A planer from Bridge City Tools. “I love a  brand that can take something workaday and turn it into a thing of beauty.” Connect with Ryan on LinkedIn and his Emory University faculty page. Listen and subscribe at  Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

David Aaker is Vice Chairman of Prophet and Professor Emeritus at the Berkeley Haas School of Business. Often called the “Father of Modern Branding,” David has authored 18 books and over 120 articles, shaping how marketers understand everything from brand equity to purpose-driven strategy. This week on On Brand, David returned to the show to discuss the updated edition of Aaker on Branding, what’s changed (and what hasn’t) in the world of brand strategy, and why purpose, storytelling, and owning a subcategory are more critical than ever. David Aaker is the Vice Chairman of Prophet and Professor Emeritus at the BerkeleyHaas School of Business. He is the winner of five career awards, including the NYAMA Marketing Hall of Fame. He has published over 120 articles and 18 books that have sold well over 1 million copies and been translated into 18 languages. They include Managing Brand Equity, Building Strong Brands, Aaker on Branding, Creating Signature Stories, Owning Game-Changing Subcategories, and The Future of Purpose-Driven Branding. Called the Father of Modern Branding by Phil Kotler, he was named one of the top five most important marketing/business gurus in 2007 and won awards for the best article in the California Management Review and the Journal of Marketing (twice). His work has received 160,000 citations. What brand has made David smile recently? David shared a smile from his company Prophet's new campaign for UBS, "Banking is our craft." Connect with David on LinkedIn, where he publishes regularly, and check out the revised edition of Aaker on Branding. Listen and subscribe at  Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Regina Dowdell is a Content Solutions Consultant at LinkedIn, where she helps organizations craft creative, effective content strategies that drive business impact. With over 15 years of experience spanning nonprofits, tech, and startups, Regina brings a digital-first, entrepreneurial mindset to every brand she supports. This week on On Brand, Regina joined me to talk about personal branding, thought leadership, and what it takes to stand out on LinkedIn today. About Regina Dowdell Regina is a digital-minded, marketing creative with an entrepreneurial spirit focused on helping individuals and companies change the world. Through effective communication, thought leadership, and a strong digital presence, Regina has supported forward-thinking organizations across all industries, from non-profits to technology to start-ups, in spreading their messages and scaling for over 15 years. As a Content Solutions Consultant at LinkedIn, Regina helps organizations craft impactful content strategies that are creative, effective, and help them reach their business objectives. An avid traveler and self-proclaimed Super Mom, Regina is based in New York City. Connect with Regina on (wait for it) LinkedIn! Listen and subscribe at  Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nicole Johnston is a former global marketing leader turned transformational coach, with a career spanning Procter & Gamble, Hershey, and Newell Brands. Today, she helps women overcome career challenges as founder of innatePOWER™ and author of Taboo Topics: Things Women Should Talk About, But Don’t. This week on On Brand, Nicole joined me to talk leadership, authenticity, and the power of brave conversations. About Nicole Johnston Nicole is a passionate Executive and Leadership Coach. She previously held senior Sales & Marketing roles at Procter & Gamble, Hershey Foods, and Kimberly-Clark, leading billion-dollar businesses to success. Nicole excels in capturing whitespace opportunities. Her true joy lies in providing positive support to her teams, leading with kindness, inspiring others, and making a transformative impact. Driven to make a difference, Nicole transitioned from corporate to coaching, founding innatePOWER™ to support women in overcoming obstacles and achieving their potential. innatePOWER™ is built on compassionate leadership and a genuine desire to make the world a better place, one person at a time. Nicole is a certified Executive, Leadership, and Organizational Development coach from the ICF-accredited Symbiosis Coaching. What brand has made Nicole smile recently? As a dedicated Hawkeye and Caitlin Clark fan, Nicole smiled as the Indiana Fever launched the Fever Network. Connect with Nicole on LinkedIn and check out the Innate Power Coaching website and her book, Taboo Topics. Listen and subscribe at  Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Heather O’Shea is Chief Research Officer at Alter Agents, where she helps brands like Netflix, Walmart, and Spotify solve tough business challenges through smart research. With nearly 20 years of experience across agencies, platforms, and publishers, she’s a leader in advertising insights and analytics. This week on On Brand, Heather joined me to talk curiosity, empathy, and what today’s smartest brands are getting right. More About Heather Heather O’Shea is a passionate insights leader with over 18 years of experience, including a focus on advertising research, digital analytics, and media landscape. She has held leadership positions at media agencies, publishers, tech platforms, and research companies. She is currently the Chief Research Officer of boutique market research consultancy Alter Agents, where she oversees the research functions within the company, partnering with brands such as Netflix, Walmart, Gatorade, and Spotify to address tough business challenges. She received her M.B.A. in marketing from Baruch College at the City University of New York. She has served as a mentor for Women in Research (WIRe) and has served on the board of the Advertising Research Foundation’s Women in Analytics program. What brand has made Heather smile recently? She shared a series of text-based smiles she got from a recent trip to Costco that her husband and son took. Connect with Heather on LinkedIn and learn more on the Alter Agents website. Listen and subscribe at  Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dave Kaufman is Senior Director of Global Marketing for MR, VR, and Metaverse at Meta’s Reality Labs, where he leads efforts for Meta Quest, Horizon Worlds, and Oculus Studios. His path includes stops at Google, Halo Neuroscience, and the U.S. Digital Service under President Obama. On this week’s On Brand, Dave joined me to talk immersive tech, branding in virtual worlds, and what’s next for the metaverse. More on Dave ... Dave Kaufman is Senior Director, Global Marketing of MR, VR, and Metaverse at Meta within the Reality Labs division. He leads global marketing efforts for Meta Quest, Horizon Worlds, and Oculus Studios. Before joining Meta, Dave headed up marketing at Halo Neuroscience, led brand strategy at the United States Digital Service (founded by President Barack Obama), and worked in product marketing at Google. He’s earned recognition from Ad Age’s 40 Under 40 list and honors at Cannes Lions, Clio, and The One Show. A graduate from Cornell University, Dave is now based in San Francisco. What brand has made Dave smile recently? Dave shared the recent, surprising smile the MLB brought to his face. Connect with Dave on LinkedIn and check out the article he wrote there, How to Work in Marketing (and not be full of ). You can also learn more about his work at Meta Reality Labs. Listen and subscribe at  Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mark Kingsley is the author of Universal Principles of Branding and the forthcoming Brands in the Age of AI. A Grammy-nominated designer turned brand strategist, he’s led work for Citi, Equinox, and Blue Note Records. Mark joined me on this week’s On Brand to talk about branding’s future—and how AI is changing the game. Mark Kingsley began his career designing album packages for legends like John Coltrane, Pat Metheny, and Quincy Jones—work that earned him a Grammy nomination in 2001 for Blue Note Records—before transitioning into corporate branding, where he led major initiatives at Landor and Collins for clients such as Citi, Ogilvy, and Equinox. Through his studio, Malcontent, he serves a diverse mix of clients from indie filmmakers to Pulitzer Prize winners. Mark teaches in the SVA Masters in Branding program, previously held the Melbert B. Cary Professorship at the Rochester Institute of Technology, and is currently Head of Brand for the fashion label Oumlil. His book Universal Principles of Branding became a bestseller in 2023, and his next, Brands in the Age of AI, is due out in December. What brand has made Mark smile recently? Mark shared decades-old smiles from the record label ECM, a company whose recordings provide a classic example of creating space through design and sound. Connect with Mark on LinkedIn and the Malcontent website. Listen and subscribe at  Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Cynthia Kane is the author of the new book The Pause Principle: How to Keep Your Cool in Tough Situations. A leading voice in intentional communication, Cynthia has helped over 70,000 people become less reactive and more kind, honest, and helpful in how they speak to themselves and others. Through her bestselling books, DailyOM course, and the Kane Intentional Communication Training Program, she’s transforming the way we talk—and listen. Cynthia joined me to share how we can all communicate with more intention on this week’s On Brand podcast. Cynthia Kane helps people enhance their lives and relationships by teaching them how to become less reactive in difficult conversations and speak to themselves, others, and their environment in a kind, honest, and helpful way. She has taught over 70,000 people how to change the way they communicate through her books, including her latest, The Pause Principle: How to Keep Your Cool in Tough Situations, Bestselling DailyOM Course, and the Kane Intentional Communication Training Program. She is a certified meditation and mindfulness instructor, certified breathing coach, and the founder of the Kane Intentional Communication Institute, LLC. What brand has made Cynthia smile recently? Cynthia shared how the colors of Pratima Skincare’s products make her smile frequently. Connect with Cynthia on LinkedIn and her website. Listen and subscribe at  Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Anson Sowby is CEO and co-founder of Battery, a global creative company that mixes Hollywood storytelling with brand strategy and Silicon Valley speed. With offices around the world and clients like the Anaheim Ducks, Land O’Lakes, and Warner Bros Games, Battery has been named Ad Age Agency of the Year three times. Anson joined me to share how they built this bold, modern agency on this week’s On Brand podcast. Anson Sowby is the CEO and co-founder of Battery, a global creative company who developed a unique working model that’s part Hollywood storytelling mixed with classic brand principles done the Silicon Valley way. The company has been celebrated as a three-time Ad Age Agency of the Year with offices in Los Angeles, Chicago, Toronto and Shanghai, and works with forward-thinking clients like the Anaheim Ducks, Land O’Lakes, Royal Bank of Canada, and Warner Bros Games. What brand has made Anson smile recently? Anson shared a fun smile from the brand Trust & Will, which is in the business of ... well, exactly what you'd think! Listen to learn where Anson's unexpected smile came from. Connect with Anson on LinkedIn and learn more on the Battery website. Listen and subscribe at  Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chris Cardetti is Chief Strategy Officer at BarkleyOKRP, where he’s spent the past decade shaping strategy into a creative force behind brand revivals for Planet Fitness, Motel 6, AMC Theatres, and more. Known for his journalistic curiosity and idea-first mindset, Chris and his team lead deep consumer research, upstream consulting, and thought leadership—earning top industry honors along the way. We dug into his approach this week on the On Brand podcast. About Chris Cardetti Chris Cardetti is the Chief Strategy Officer at BarkleyOKRP, where he’s spent the past decade building the strategy, intelligence, and communications planning disciplines to be the art and science behind the agency’s model for building whole brands. His recent experience includes a series of brand and business revitalization efforts for Planet Fitness, Motel 6, AMC Theatres, Smoothie King, and Big Brothers Big Sisters of America. Over the course of his career, Chris has zeroed in on a recipe for strategy that mixes journalistic insights with a “no handoffs” idea-centric mentality. This has helped lead to Effies, Lions, Reggies, Shorty’s, and Clio’s awards. His strategy team is also responsible for upstream consulting, in-depth qualitative and quantitative research, and BarkleyOKRP's thought leadership practice, designed to understand the modern consumer deeper than anyone else. What brand has made Chris smile recently? He gave us two! The first came from Phillips' great customer service after he dropped his Sonicare toothbrush! The second came from BarkleyOKRP’s client — the Kansas City Chiefs. Connect with Chris on LinkedIn and learn more on the Barkley website. Listen and subscribe at  Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices