Can Democracy Survive the Attention Wars? with Chris Hayes

Special Government Employee Elon Musk has attempted to access our most personal data. Meanwhile, Billionaire Tech Mogul Elon Musk attempted to take over one of the biggest artificial intelligence companies in the world. Coincidence? In other news, Edgelord Elon Musk and his band of misfit fanboys are trying to uncover massive fraud and corruption, reading the data wrong, and making up stories that feels right to them. Jon and Max walk through it all, with stops along the way for TikTok’s triumph over app stores and the UK’s move to confiscate encrypted content. Then, the guys debrief on this week’s Offline Focus Challenge and Max gets some words of wisdom from Dr. Gloria Mark, author of the book Attention Span.For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [email protected] and include the name of the podcast. 

U.S. democracy is likely to break down during this second Trump presidency, but what lies ahead isn’t a traditional dictatorship. Dr. Steven Levitsky joins Offline to explain competitive authoritarianism—what it looks like, how Trump and his cronies are enacting it already, and why it’s more popular than the fascism of yore. But first! Max and Jon discuss how the MAGA regime is silencing critics, including with two frivolous media lawsuits against ABC and CBS. Then they dive into rumors that Elon Musk is trying to use DOGE to replace federal workers with robots, and share updates on the ultra competitive, ultra scientific Offline Challenge. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [email protected] and include the name of the podcast.

MSNBC’s Chris Hayes joins Offline to discuss how our society’s commodification of attention has made us miserable while empowering authoritarians like Donald Trump. Chris’s new book, The Sirens’ Call, explains how humans mistake online engagement for social connection, why the media is beholden to flashy headlines, and why no one can bear being alone with their thoughts. He and Jon discuss how Democrats need to operate in this frenetic environment and examine whether fascism offers a reprieve to people tired of engaging. But first! It’s time for a new edition of the Offline Challenge. Over the next few weeks, Jon and Max will be fortifying their attention spans through a series of focus-building exercises. The goal: stay sane, grounded and committed to what matters most throughout Donald Trump’s second term. Follow along as they put down their phones, touch grass and reclaim control of their attention. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [email protected] and include the name of the podcast.

Senator Chris Murphy joins Offline with a warning for his fellow Democrats: the longer we take to counter Trump’s horrifying shock and awe strategy, the harder it will be to get up off the mat.  The Connecticut Senator shares how the pardoning of January 6th protestors has impacted his personal security, what the Republican party is getting right about helping people find purpose, and why the handover of power to tech overlords is such a bad, bad idea. But first! Jon and Max dive into DeepSeek to unravel whether it’s the Sputnik of AI, debate if Republican influencers are using a new playbook, and unpack Elon Musk’s recent comments at a German far right rally. Then, they bid farewell to the Gulf of Mexico and offer some context on why Google is bending to Trump’s whims. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [email protected] and include the name of the podcast.

TikTok is back from the dead... at least for now. After a self-imposed shutdown and a shameless appeal to President Trump, the countdown to the TikTok ban has restarted. Meanwhile, the rest of Silicon Valley is taking turns kissing the ring. Jon and Max discuss the list of tech oligarchs vying for Trump's favor, explain what they have to gain from the President's new Stargate AI announcement, and debate if it's time to pump their life savings into $TRUMP a new "meme coin" launched by the President that's managed to annoy even the most ardent MAGA crypto bros. The guys walk through the grift, and discuss how a Supreme Court case on age verification for porn sites could be a great safeguard for kids on social media. Then, Max sits down with Derek Thompson, author of this month's cover story in The Atlantic, to talk about why people don’t equate social isolation with loneliness, and what this means for our society and politics. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [email protected] and include the name of the podcast. 

The Supreme Court is the latest branch of government to kicktok TikTok to the curb—at least under its present Chinese ownership. Max and Jon break down what may happen to the app over the next few days and explain how a newly inaugurated President Trump could change its fate. Until then, Americans are fleeing the presumed CCP-controlled platform for an explicitly CCP-controlled platform: RedNote. The guys wade through the online takes and discuss whether the TikTok ban is actually a violation of First Amendment rights, why Mark Zuckerberg’s MAGAfication might be related to TikTok’s demise and how Joe Biden incorporated Offline talking points into his farewell address. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [email protected] and include the name of the podcast.  

Offline’s favorite foe of Big Tech, FTC Chair Lina Khan, joins the show to talk to Jon about standing up to Meta and Amazon, how the internet has changed the way monopolies operate, and why her work has made her an unlikely folk hero. Plus: Max and Jon sit down to talk about the misinformation spreading about the Los Angeles fires, Meta’s decision to abandon fact checking, and the last ditch efforts to save TikTok before the US ban takes effect next week. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [email protected] and include the name of the podcast.

Surgeon General Vivek Murthy joins Offline to share his final prescription for the nation He and Jon talk about why his parting message is all about community, the online reaction to the United Healthcare assassination, and how young people are struggling to find depth and meaning in a culture that glorifies fame and wealth. Then, Max and Jon answer listener-submitted questions, Jon recommits himself to posting on social media, and Jeremiah Johnson returns to the pod to discuss the worst tweets of 2024. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [email protected] and include the name of the podcast.

The more we learn about the alleged killer of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, the more his digital footprint falls into the Offline wheelhouse. Luigi Mangione has posted about Jonathan Haidt and Catherine Price; on Twitter he follows everyone from AOC to Ezra Klein to Joe Rogan. And don’t get us started on his Goodreads profile! Jon and Max talk through the internet's embrace of a suspected murderer, and whether the edgelords really believe what they’re posting. But first! The DC Circuit Court of Appeals rejected TikTok’s attempt to overturn an impending ban, which is scheduled to take effect next month—unless Trump or SCOTUS intervene. Plus, Max rants about the American Society of Anesthesiologists and Jon talks about what drove him to write an article for The Atlantic.For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [email protected] and include the name of the podcast.

How often do you talk to someone you disagree with—not in a Twitter pile on, but face to face?  With Donald Trump’s inauguration fast approaching (plus holidays full of opinionated relatives), Jon sits down with Dave Isay, the founder of StoryCorps, to talk about the healing power of conversation. StoryCorps is a segment on NPR’s Morning Edition, a podcast and the largest single archive of personal narratives in the world. Since 2016, it’s also facilitated conversations between Republicans and Democrats as part of its One Small Step Initiative, and the results are surprisingly heartwarming. Jon and Dave talk about strategies to overcome political polarization, what we learn when we talk to strangers, and how to have productive conversations with people who disagree with you. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [email protected] and include the name of the podcast.