"God Didn't Make Us to Hate Us" with Rev. Lizzie

Join Joy and Raenelle as they interview Dr. Noga Zerubavel (Find her incredible Bio Here) on the differences between empathy and compassion and how they can make a difference for parents and caregivers doing their best to support their children. TakeawaysEmpathy involves sharing in another's pain, activating the same neural networks as personal pain.Compassion is a concern that motivates action to alleviate suffering, distinct from empathy.Excessive empathy can lead to empathic strain, which causes withdrawal and disconnection.Practicing compassion can replenish emotional resources and prevent burnout.Modeling compassion teaches children resilience and kindness without emotional overload.Mess Makes Meaning is a podcast about making meaning in the messy and beautiful journey of parenting. Hosted by Joy Studer and Raenelle Tauro, we explore children’s spirituality, wonder, story, rhythm, and play—and the ways we can nurture our children’s spiritual lives in the midst of ordinary, everyday moments.Follow Mess Makes Meaning wherever you listen to podcasts, and join us as we make meaning together.

In a world that constantly measures our worth by what we accomplish, how do we learn to slow down and listen to what is happening within us?This week on Mess Makes Meaning, Joy and Raenelle welcome spiritual director Ruth Lin Nakai for a thoughtful conversation about rest, creativity, faith, and the courage to live beyond productivity. Together, they explore why so many parents and caregivers find themselves exhausted even when they are getting enough sleep, the difference between achievement and attunement, and how silence, play, and wonder can reconnect us to ourselves, our children, and God.Ruth invites us to consider that our spiritual lives are not problems to solve but sacred processes to tend. Through stories, gentle wisdom, and practical encouragement, she offers a compassionate invitation to notice what makes us come alive, embrace rest as a sacred practice, and create space for delight in the midst of busy lives.Whether you are feeling overwhelmed, stretched thin, or simply longing for a more spacious way of being, this conversation offers a breath of fresh air and a reminder that you do not have to earn your worth through productivity.Join us as we explore what it means to choose attunement over achievement and discover the freedom to simply be.Mess Makes Meaning is a podcast about making meaning in the messy and beautiful journey of parenting. Hosted by Joy Studer and Raenelle Tauro, we explore children’s spirituality, wonder, story, rhythm, and play—and the ways we can nurture our children’s spiritual lives in the midst of ordinary, everyday moments.Follow Mess Makes Meaning wherever you listen to podcasts, and join us as we make meaning together.

A sometimes difficult subject, discussing the harsh realities of violence in our world, Joy and Raenelle talk with Hannah Rose Martin, one of the founders of RAWtools and the co-author of Sparking Peace. Learn more about this incredible organization and the beautiful movement of transformation, lifting the importance of language, honesty, and hope.Mess Makes Meaning is a podcast about making meaning in the messy and beautiful journey of parenting. Hosted by Joy Studer and Raenelle Tauro, we explore children’s spirituality, wonder, story, rhythm, and play—and the ways we can nurture our children’s spiritual lives in the midst of ordinary, everyday moments.Follow Mess Makes Meaning wherever you listen to podcasts, and join us as we make meaning together.

As your fellow parents in this messy yet meaningful journey, we understand and notice how stressful the last month has been for so many. As we all enter into summer, may we take a moment to slow down and simply "be". Enjoy this Summer Blessing.Mess Makes Meaning is a podcast about making meaning in the messy and beautiful journey of parenting. Hosted by Joy Studer and Raenelle Tauro, we explore children’s spirituality, wonder, story, rhythm, and play—and the ways we can nurture our children’s spiritual lives in the midst of ordinary, everyday moments.Follow Mess Makes Meaning wherever you listen to podcasts, and join us as we make meaning together.

In this episode of Mess Makes Meaning, hosts Joy Studer and Raenelle Tauro explore the meaning we can find in the messiness of play, and how children use play as a powerful language for processing life’s deepest joys, questions, and challenges.Joy opens the conversation by reflecting on the heart of the podcast—making meaning out of messy and beautiful life while nurturing children’s spirituality through wonder, story, rhythm, and play. Raenelle introduces today’s focus on play and the ways it helps children communicate and make sense of their inner worlds.Their guest, Brittany Luther, a Certified Child Life Specialist with nearly 20 years of experience working with infants, children, adolescents, and families in hospital settings—including emergency care and oncology—joins the conversation to share her expertise on the role of play in healing and connection.Together, they explore what a child life specialist does and how play becomes a vital tool for helping children express what they cannot always put into words. Brittany reflects on what first drew her to this work and how she came to understand play as a language for healing, especially in medical environments where children are navigating fear, grief, and uncertainty.The conversation also turns toward caregivers themselves—how adults can stay grounded while witnessing a child’s pain, how to care for their own emotional wellbeing, and what it means to be a “conduit” rather than a container for others’ experiences. Brittany offers gentle, practical ways for parents and caregivers to check in with themselves and remain present without becoming overwhelmed.Finally, the group discusses how parents can foster meaningful play at home—not as therapy, but as connection—and how families can use play to move through grief, suffering, and existential questions together. The episode closes with a blessing from Brittany, offering words of care and encouragement for all who are walking alongside children through both joy and struggle.Mess Makes Meaning is a podcast about making meaning in the messy and beautiful journey of parenting. Hosted by Joy Studer and Raenelle Tauro, we explore children’s spirituality, wonder, story, rhythm, and play—and the ways we can nurture our children’s spiritual lives in the midst of ordinary, everyday moments.Follow Mess Makes Meaning wherever you listen to podcasts, and join us as we make meaning together.

In this episode of Mess Makes Meaning, hosts Joy and Raenelle welcome back Meredith Miller, a pastor and author, to discuss her new book 'Wonder: 52 Conversations to Help Kids Fall in Love with Scripture '. The conversation explores the importance of nurturing children's spirituality through presence, storytelling, and curiosity. Meredith emphasizes the shift from being an expert to a guide in faith formation, encouraging parents to engage with their children's questions and doubts in the form of curiosity, not perfection. The discussion also highlights the significance of God-centered storytelling and how it can help children navigate difficult biblical narratives. Ultimately, the episode offers practical insights for parents to foster a deeper connection with their children's spiritual journeys.Check out Meredith's newest book TODAY! Wonder: 52 Conversations to Help Kids Fall in Love with Scripture Mess Makes Meaning is a podcast about making meaning in the messy and beautiful journey of parenting. Hosted by Joy Studer and Raenelle Tauro, we explore children’s spirituality, wonder, story, rhythm, and play—and the ways we can nurture our children’s spiritual lives in the midst of ordinary, everyday moments.Follow Mess Makes Meaning wherever you listen to podcasts, and join us as we make meaning together.

Joy and Raenelle have a wonderful conversation with Rev. Dr. Aizaiah Yong and Rev. Nereyda (Neddy) Yong about their book, "Sacred Parenthood: Spiritual Practices for the HIGHS and LOWS of Parenting". Find the book HERE"Authors and life partners Aizaiah G. Yong and Nereyda Yong contend that social healing and world peace start at home. As the parents of four young children in an interracial and intercultural family, they offer stories and spiritual practices for the inner and communal lives of parents in a beautifully diverse world. Sacred Parenthood invites readers into creative spiritual expression in everyday family life. We can find new ways to hold the vulnerable lives around us with a bit more tenderness. As we do so, we can experience anew the gift and sacredness of parenting."Mess Makes Meaning is a podcast about making meaning in the messy and beautiful journey of parenting. Hosted by Joy Studer and Raenelle Tauro, we explore children’s spirituality, wonder, story, rhythm, and play—and the ways we can nurture our children’s spiritual lives in the midst of ordinary, everyday moments.Follow Mess Makes Meaning wherever you listen to podcasts, and join us as we make meaning together.

Welcome, Reverend Lizzie, to Mess Makes Meaning as she discusses parents and caregivers' journey of deconstructing/reconstructing while caring for our children's spirituality.  Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail, author of "God Didn't Make Us to Hate Us," is the vicar of Jubilee Episcopal Church in Austin, Texas. She has been using her social media platforms to unravel toxic theology and reveal the abiding love of a joyful God. Rev. Lizzie lives with her husband, Rev. Jonathan, and their two beloved daughters, who are often found on Rev. Lizzie’s hip or underfoot while she preaches. Mess Makes Meaning is a podcast about making meaning in the messy and beautiful journey of parenting. Hosted by Joy Studer and Raenelle Tauro, we explore children’s spirituality, wonder, story, rhythm, and play—and the ways we can nurture our children’s spiritual lives in the midst of ordinary, everyday moments.Follow Mess Makes Meaning wherever you listen to podcasts, and join us as we make meaning together.

Just in time for the chaos of the season! What is self-regulation, and how do we model that for our children? Join Joy and Raenelle as they interview Kathleen Crevasse on this concept and learn how to offer yourself some compassion in the process. Mess Makes Meaning is a podcast about making meaning in the messy and beautiful journey of parenting. Hosted by Joy Studer and Raenelle Tauro, we explore children’s spirituality, wonder, story, rhythm, and play—and the ways we can nurture our children’s spiritual lives in the midst of ordinary, everyday moments.Follow Mess Makes Meaning wherever you listen to podcasts, and join us as we make meaning together.

In this episode of Mess Makes Meaning, Joy Studer is joined by Rachel Ramsden, an advocate for risky play and part of the Play Outside Lab in Vancouver, BC. Together, they explore what it means to support children as they engage in healthy, developmentally important risk-taking through play.Rachel invites parents, caregivers, and educators to rethink how we respond when children explore challenge, uncertainty, and physical limits in their play. Rather than defaulting to “be careful,” she offers alternative language and perspectives that help children build confidence, resilience, and good judgment while staying safe and supported.We also discuss the role of risky play in child development and how environments can be shaped to allow for exploration without removing all challenge or discomfort. This conversation encourages adults to trust children’s capabilities while still providing thoughtful guidance and presence.Whether you’re parenting, teaching, or walking alongside children in any capacity, this episode offers practical tools and a fresh perspective on how to support growth through play, courage, and connection.Child in Nature AllianceMess Makes Meaning is a podcast about making meaning in the messy and beautiful journey of parenting. Hosted by Joy Studer and Raenelle Tauro, we explore children’s spirituality, wonder, story, rhythm, and play—and the ways we can nurture our children’s spiritual lives in the midst of ordinary, everyday moments.Follow Mess Makes Meaning wherever you listen to podcasts, and join us as we make meaning together.