Seeing Through The Tropes: How Art History Shaped Women's Identity | Elissa Yukiko Weichbrodt

How do the images we see shape the way we understand ourselves and one another?In this episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach sits down with art historian and author Elissa Yukiko Weichbrodt to explore her new book, Look Like a Lady: Five Visual Tropes of Womanhood and How to See Ourselves Differently.Drawing from centuries of art history, Elissa identifies five recurring ways women have been depicted and understood: Venus, Vessel, Maiden, Mother, and Monster. These aren't simply artistic categories. They are stories that can quietly shape our expectations about beauty, femininity, motherhood, sexuality, agency, and even holiness.Together, Stephen and Elissa explore how these visual tropes have influenced both popular culture and Christian imagination and consider the alternative stories that can help us see women as whole, particular, embodied people rather than objects, symbols, or stereotypes.The conversation moves from ancient Greek sculpture and Renaissance paintings to Victorian photography, contemporary beauty culture, purity culture, and the ways women are represented within the church.Along the way, Elissa introduces five counter-stories:Witnessing instead of objectifyingBeing instead of becoming an empty vessel for someone else's meaningMoving instead of remaining passive or containedCultivating instead of being reduced to motherhoodPartnering instead of viewing men and women as threats or oppositesAt the heart of the conversation is a deeper question: What might it look like to recover a vision of womanhood rooted not in cultural expectations, but in the particularity, dignity, agency, and belovedness of each person created in the image of God?For artists, this conversation offers an invitation to consider how the images we create participate in forming the imagination of the people who encounter them.And for all of us, it raises an important possibility: perhaps freedom doesn't come from simply rejecting old stories, but from learning to recognize them—and telling truer ones.Elissa Weichbrodt is an art historian, educator, and author. Her new book, Look Like a Lady: Five Visual Tropes of Womanhood and How to See Ourselves Differently, examines the ways visual culture has shaped our understanding of womanhood and offers a more expansive, hopeful vision.Connect with Elissa on Instagram: http://instagram.com/elissabrodtGet the book: https://bakerbookhouse.com/products/9781587436925_look-like-a-ladyListen to our previous conversation with Elissa: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/s11-e07-redeeming-vision-with-dr-elissa-yukiko-weichbrodt/id1090123738?i=1000605110237Send us Fan MailSupport the showCONNECT WITH USWebsite: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Support the show: patreon.com/makersandmystics                                                  Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1GET A MAKERS X MYSTICS COFFEE MUG

What does it mean to glorify God through art?For many artists, the desire to glorify God can become an expectation that their work should communicate an explicitly religious message. But what happens when that expectation begins to constrict the artist? What if our attempts to make art that clearly communicates faith actually prevent the art from becoming genuinely transformative?In this solo meditation, Stephen Roach explores the relationship between Christian faith, artistic freedom, and the glory of God. Drawing on the work of Hans Rookmaaker and Flannery O'Connor, as well as the strange prophetic performances of Ezekiel, Isaiah, and Jeremiah, Stephen asks whether art needs to be explicitly religious in order to be spiritually meaningful.Stephen revisits the story of Paolo Veronese and his controversial painting of The Last Supper, which brought him before the Catholic Inquisition in 1573. The story raises an important question for artists and faith communities alike: what happens when our desire to protect familiar expressions of faith leaves no room for artistic imagination?Perhaps glorifying God through art doesn't always mean making art that is easily recognizable as Christian. Perhaps sometimes it means following our creative curiosity into places that are unfamiliar, challenging, ambiguous, or even strange.In a world where familiar religious imagery can become wallpaper, what might happen if we made room for art that surprises us again?In this episode:Rethinking what it means to "glorify God" through artWhy treating art as a "tool" for evangelism can strip it of its powerThe shocking performance art of Ezekiel, Isaiah, and JeremiahPaolo Veronese's controversial Last SupperHow religious conformity can restrict artistic creativityWhy faith communities need to cultivate curiosity rather than judgmentThe danger of familiar truths becoming spiritually dullABOUT THE HOSTStephen Roach is the host of Makers and Mystics, a podcast exploring the intersection of creativity, faith, and the human experience. He is an artist, curator, poet, and musician. He is currently writing How to See Invisible Things, a book exploring the future of art and faith. Stephen has spent over a decade advocating for creativity as a spiritual discipline and calling.RESOURCES AND LINKSArt Needs No Justification by Hans Rookmaaker — the book referenced for its argument that art has intrinsic value apart from evangelistic use Five Creativity Killers and How to Avoid Them by Stephen Roach — Stephen's booklet where he first wrote about Paolo Veronese's trialDisclaimer: This episode is a case for unconventional art, but I want to be clear that it is not a disparagement of sacred art: work created specifically for devotional or liturgical environments and practices. My critique of “easy art” is not meant to diminish the beauty or value of sacred art.—Stephen RoachSend us Fan MailSupport the showCONNECT WITH USWebsite: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Support the show: patreon.com/makersandmystics                                                  Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1GET A MAKERS X MYSTICS COFFEE MUG

Every great artist from Caravaggio to Frida Kahlo has fought the same invisible war, and Stephen Roach makes the case that it is not a coincidence.In this solo reflection, Stephen traces a decade-long question that has haunted him: why does creative expression seem to attract so much internal and external opposition? Drawing on scripture, church history, and the lives of artists who battled addiction, trauma, and mental illness, he builds a case for why creativity and faith are so deeply intertwined, and why that connection makes artists a centerpiece in a spiritual battle. He highlights an uncanny parallel between the King of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 and the artisans in Exodus, then lands in the present moment, asking what it means to keep making human art in an age of artificial intelligence. Listeners will walk away with a framework for understanding creative resistance and a renewed sense of why their work matters.KEY TOPICS COVERED• Why creativity is rooted in the image of God• The historical pattern of struggle among great artists, from addiction to mental illness• The church's complicated relationship with the arts• What the rise of AI means for the future of human creativity• Why art may be the last human frontier in an automated worldABOUT THE HOSTStephen Roach is the host of Makers and Mystics, a podcast exploring the intersection of creativity, faith, and the human experience. He is an artist, curator, poet, and musician. He is currently writing How to See Invisible Things, a book exploring the inner life of art and faith. Stephen has spent over a decade advocating for creativity as a spiritual discipline.RESOURCES AND LINKS The War of Art by Steven Pressfield - referenced for its concept of Resistance and creative struggleSend us Fan MailSupport the showCONNECT WITH USWebsite: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Support the show: patreon.com/makersandmystics                                                  Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1GET A MAKERS X MYSTICS COFFEE MUG

Evelyn Underhill: The Mother of Modern MysticsArtist Profile Series 40Who was Evelyn Underhill, and why does her work continue to shape the modern contemplative movement more than a century later?In this Artist Profile episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach explores the life of Evelyn Underhill, writer, spiritual director, retreat leader, and one of the most influential voices on Christian mysticism in the twentieth century.Although she is often remembered for her landmark book Mysticism, Underhill's own spiritual journey was anything but straightforward. From youthful encounters with transcendent beauty to explorations of the occult, philosophy, and Roman Catholicism, her search eventually led her into the Anglican tradition, where she discovered that mystical experience finds its deepest fulfillment not in extraordinary visions but in the ordinary rhythms of worship, sacrament, and life with Christ.In an age captivated by spirituality yet often disconnected from historic faith, Evelyn Underhill's life reminds us that the deepest longing of the human heart is not simply for transcendent experiences, but for communion with the living God.In This Episode The surprising spiritual journey that shaped Evelyn Underhill's life  How Mysticism became one of the defining books on Christian contemplation  Why Underhill believed mystical experience should be part of ordinary Christian life  Her friendship with Baron Friedrich von Hügel and its profound influence  The relationship between artists, beauty, and the contemplative life  Why her final book, Worship, marked the culmination of her life's work  What her story offers Christians, artists, and seekers today Notable Quotes"The mystic is called to be a creative artist of the highest kind.""Beauty is simply Reality seen with the eyes of love.""Long before we begin searching for God, God has already begun searching for us."Books MentionedMysticism: A Study in the Nature and Development of Man's Spiritual Consciousness — Evelyn Underhill Practical Mysticism — Evelyn Underhill Worship — Evelyn Underhill Confessions — Augustine of Hippo Dark Night of the Soul — St. John of the Cross People Mentioned Baron Friedrich von Hügel  T. S. Eliot  Julian of Norwich  St. John of the Cross  William Blake  Augustine of Hippo Connect with Makers & MysticsIf this episode encouraged you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who longs to recover beauty, wonder, and the contemplative life.To support the ongoing work of Makers & Mystics and gain access to bonus content, join our Patreon community.Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/makersandmysticsWebsite: https://www.makersandmystics.comSend us Fan MailSupport the showCONNECT WITH USWebsite: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Support the show: patreon.com/makersandmystics                                                  Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1GET A MAKERS X MYSTICS COFFEE MUG

What if art isn't simply something we admire, but something that asks something of us?In this episode, Stephen Roach sits down with acclaimed printmaker, educator, and storyteller Steve Prince for a conversation about the vocation of the artist. Drawing from history, faith, family, and lived experience, Steve shares how his work seeks to preserve memory, confront injustice, and create spaces where genuine transformation can begin.From the legacy of the Civil Rights Movement to the power of oral storytelling, from New Orleans kitchen tables to ambitious community art projects, Steve reveals why he believes artists are called to help us "remember to remember" and to imagine a more hopeful future together.Together they explore:Why artists are called to be truth-tellersHow history shapes both our imagination and our responsibilityThe role of beauty in confronting difficult realitiesWhy storytelling is essential to healing divided communitiesSteve's Kitchen Table project and its vision for reconciliationCreating art that challenges, invites, and transformsFaith, social justice, and the spiritual calling of creative workHelping the next generation of artists embrace both courage and adaptabilityWhether you're an artist, educator, historian, or simply someone longing for deeper conversations in a fractured world, this episode offers a vision of art as an act of hospitality, remembrance, and hope.Quote from the Episode"The artist helps us remember to remember.""Art isn't made to divide us, it creates a pathway toward who we could become.""Every table has something to teach us." - Steve PrinceResources MentionedSteve Prince's Kitchen Table community art projectTrinity City graphic novel initiativeHoward ThurmanMartin LutherMedgar EversEmmett TillRosa ParksMartin Luther King Jr.If this episode encouraged you, please consider sharing it with a friend, leaving a review, or supporting the work of Makers & Mystics through Patreon.Produced by Stephen Roach.Music by Some Were at Sea.Keep Creating. The World Needs Your Art. Send us Fan MailSupport the showCONNECT WITH USWebsite: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Support the show: patreon.com/makersandmystics                                                  Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1GET A MAKERS X MYSTICS COFFEE MUG

Can beauty change a person? A community? A culture? Sacred artist Kate Capato believes it can.In this bonus episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach sits down with Kate to explore why authentic beauty has the power to heal, awaken wonder, and draw people into the presence of God. Together they discuss the modern crisis of beauty, the vocation of the artist, and how sacred art becomes an invitation into deeper communion with Christ.Kate shares why she and her family travel the country as "missionaries of beauty," bringing paintings and music into communities where beauty becomes a catalyst for transformation.In this episode, you'll discover:• Why beauty is essential • The difference between beauty and prettiness• Why modern culture is experiencing a crisis of beauty• The spiritual practice of creating sacred art• Practical ways anyone can cultivate beauty in everyday lifeAbout Kate CapatoKate Capato is a sacred artist and founder of Visual Grace. Through commissioned paintings, exhibitions, and speaking events, she helps people encounter the beauty of God through visual art. Together with her husband, she travels throughout the United States sharing sacred art and music as "missionaries of beauty."Learn more: https://visualgrace.orgSend us Fan MailSupport the showCONNECT WITH USWebsite: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Support the show: patreon.com/makersandmystics                                                  Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1GET A MAKERS X MYSTICS COFFEE MUG

Animation has a unique ability to carry profound truths beneath colorful worlds, unforgettable characters, and compelling adventure. Beneath the spectacle, the best stories invite us into questions of identity, grief, hope, and transformation.In this episode, Stephen Roach sits down with animator and storyboard artist Gene Kim, whose career has included work with Pixar, Blue Sky Studios, and major film and television productions. Together they explore why stories matter, how animation can communicate deep spiritual realities, and why genuine character transformation lies at the heart of every meaningful narrative.Gene also shares the deeply personal story behind his animated short film One Last Monster, revealing how the loss of his mother shaped its themes of trust, suffering, and hope. Drawing from Korean history, classic anime, The Lord of the Rings, and his own Christian faith, Gene reflects on the surprising ways fantasy can help us tell the truth about the human experience.In this conversation, you'll discover: Why animation is uniquely suited for exploring profound spiritual themes  The relationship between storytelling and personal transformation  How compelling characters become vehicles for hope and redemption  How Gene processed grief through the creative act of filmmaking  Why the best stories remind us that we are never alone in our suffering Whether you're an artist, filmmaker, writer, or simply someone who loves a great story, this conversation offers a thoughtful look at the power of imagination to help us make sense of ourselves and the world we inhabit.Watch Gene's animated short One Last Monster and follow his ongoing work: YouTube: https://youtube.com/@onelastmonster Instagram: https://instagram.com/onelastmonsterSend us Fan MailSupport the showCONNECT WITH USWebsite: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Support the show: patreon.com/makersandmystics                                                  Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1GET A MAKERS X MYSTICS COFFEE MUG

In this bonus episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach revisits The Pace of Beauty series with artist and designer Jennifer Sturrock. Drawing from her background in couture, contemporary art, and theological study, Jennifer shares how fabric and materiality have become a framework for exploring deeper questions of identity, mystery, and communion with God. What begins as a conversation about textiles and clothing unfolds into a rich exploration of the Transfiguration, the symbolism of garments throughout Scripture, and the ways beauty reveals truths that often remain hidden beneath the surface.Stephen and Jen discuss the theological significance of clothing and how fashion can function as both concealment and revelation. Jennifer reflects on her own artistic practice, including large-scale textile installations that invite viewers into contemplation, mystery, and embodied ways of knowing.The conversation also explores Jennifer's idea of "rewilding the creative soul,” embracing vulnerability, and discovering the beauty that emerges when people become more fully themselves.Highlights:• Jennifer's journey from fashion and textile design into theology and contemporary art • How the Transfiguration shaped her artistic and theological imagination • Fashion as language  • Art as a practice of mystery, contemplation, and unknowingAbout Jennifer SturrockJennifer Sturrock is a Scottish multidisciplinary artist, designer, curator, and researcher whose work integrates couture, installation art, and poetry. Drawing on studies at Chelsea College of Arts and London College of Fashion, she later earned a Master's degree in Theology & the Arts from King's College London, where she specialized in the idea of beauty in theology.Connect with JenWebsite: https://www.jennifersturrock.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/jensturrockSend us Fan MailSupport the showCONNECT WITH USWebsite: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Support the show: patreon.com/makersandmystics                                                  Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1GET A MAKERS X MYSTICS COFFEE MUG

Beauty is one of the most celebrated words in art and faith conversations, but it may also be one of the most misunderstood. Is beauty simply what pleases the eye, or is it something deeper? Can beauty exist alongside suffering, loss, and the grotesque? And what happens when we settle for beauty that comforts us while avoiding the realities that transform us?What if beauty requires darkness, mystery, and even lament in order to reveal its deepest meaning? In this roundtable discussion, Stephen Roach and guests Corey Frey, Liv Ross, and Scott Aasman wrestle with beauty not as sentimentality or surface appeal, but as a force capable of holding together truth, goodness, suffering, and hope.KEY TOPICSWhy beauty can feel inauthentic when it is removed from struggleThe original meaning of "glamour" as a veil designed to trap and deceive, and why that etymology still matters for artists todayHow the three transcendentals — goodness, truth, and beauty — function like a trinity: remove one and the others collapse into vanity, brutality, or cover-upWhat Edmund Burke and Kant meant by the sublime, and why terror and beauty belong together rather than apartThe real context behind Dostoevsky's phrase "beauty will save the world," drawn from The Idiot, and why stripping it from that argument changes everythingThomas Kinkade's stated goal of painting a world where the Fall never happened, and what his private life and Andy Warhol quote reveal about the cost of bypassing Holy SaturdayWhy form without substance is essentially pornographic, and how true beauty requires the material and the spiritual coming togetherHow artistic isolation stunts creative roots the way a tree grown in perfect conditions falls in the first storm and why community, friction, and disagreement strengthen both the artist and the workAbout the Guests:Corey Frey is a multidisciplinary artist, writer, and co-founder of The Well Collaborative, a community dedicated to creativity, curiosity, and culture. He lives in Maryland with his wife and continues to explore the intersections of art, faith, and imagination.Liv Ross is an urban monk, poet, essayist, and Managing Editor of Traces Journal. Writing from the Ozarks, her work explores place, wonder, memory, and spiritual formation. Her first book, The Blackbird Ballad, was published by Solum Literary Press in 2026.Scott Aasman is an award-winning illustrator, educator, and co-founder of Salt Cellar Arts, an arts-focused community for the spiritually attentive and creatively engaged. He lives in Hamilton, Ontario, with his wife and two children.Resources MentionedBeauty Will Save the World by Brian ZahndThe Idiot by Fyodor DostoevskyThe Thought of the Heart and the Soul of the World by James Hillman Works by Flannery O'Connor Works by Cormac McCarthy Paintings of Thomas Kinkade Landscapes of J. M. W. TurnerConnect with Our GuestsCorey Frey coreysfrey.comLiv Ross The Abbey of Curiosity Substack The Blackbird BalladScott Aasman Instagram – San IllustrationSend us Fan MailSupport the showCONNECT WITH USWebsite: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Support the show: patreon.com/makersandmystics                                                  Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1GET A MAKERS X MYSTICS COFFEE MUG

What does it cost an artist to tell the truth? Singer-songwriter Zan Fiskum has built her entire creative life around finding out. In this episode, host Stephen Roach sits down with Zan to explore how her most personal songs, about a toxic creative relationship, a fractured friendship, and a complicated bond with her mother, became anthems for strangers carrying the same quiet weight.This is a conversation about the craft behind vulnerability: how to write specifically enough to be honest, and broadly enough to let the listener find themselves inside your story. If you've ever wondered whether your most painful experiences are worth putting into a song, this episode answers that question with a resounding yes.Key TakeawaysThe particular is the universal. Writing from your most specific, personal experience doesn't isolate your audience; it invites them in. The goal is to leave enough space in the lyric for listeners to find their own story.Vulnerability on stage is a form of service. Sharing something raw and real can give your audience permission to feel things they didn't think they were allowed to feel, and sometimes, to take action they've been avoiding for years.Faith doesn't require religious language. Drawing on C.S. Lewis, Zan articulates a conviction shared by many artists of faith: we don't need more Christian people making Christian art. We need Christians making art, beautiful, honest, human art.Your constraints can become your creative fuel. Whether it's a commission, a theme, or a question crowdsourced from strangers on the internet, working within limits can push you toward material you'd never find on your own.Resources MentionedZan Fiskum's album — Forbidden Art (available on all major streaming platforms) Makers and Mystics — "The Gift of the Elders" episode — A previous episode featuring Petrobas from New Zealand on how indigenous cultures honor their eldersZan's social media:Instagram: @zanfiskumSend us Fan MailSupport the showCONNECT WITH USWebsite: http://www.makersandmystics.com Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics Support the show: patreon.com/makersandmystics                                                  Sign Up for Our Newsletter! http://eepurl.com/g49Ks1GET A MAKERS X MYSTICS COFFEE MUG