318: AI is a consensus machine (and here's why that's good for some lawyers)

Show Notes In this podcast episode, Ernie Svenson interviews Dorna At Gavel, a former attorney turned tech entrepreneur, about her journey in creating Gavel, a legal technology platform. Dorna shares her experiences in building Gavel Workflows and Gavel Exec, tools designed to automate document creation and enhance legal drafting with AI. The conversation explores the integration of these tools with Microsoft Word, the importance of user experience, and the future of AI in the legal field. Dorna addresses common misconceptions about AI, the concept of 'vibe lawyering,' and how these technologies can empower lawyers to focus on more meaningful work while improving efficiency. Takeaways Dorna transitioned from law to tech to help domestic violence survivors. Gavel Workflows automates document creation for legal professionals. Gavel Exec serves as an AI copilot within Microsoft Word. The platform is designed to enhance collaboration and efficiency. AI tools can help lawyers focus on higher-level tasks. Misconceptions about AI include fears of job loss in the legal field. Vibe lawyering encourages creative legal thinking with AI assistance. Training junior associates can be streamlined using AI playbooks. Gavel Exec integrates with existing workflows to improve productivity. The future of legal practice will likely include AI as a standard tool. Resource Links ChatGPT Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) Apply to join the ChatGPT Lab The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.  

Show Notes In this episode, Ernie discusses the impact of AI on the legal profession, emphasizing that while AI may replace surface-level tasks, the best lawyers will thrive by focusing on deeper, strategic thinking and understanding complex legal outcomes. Takeaways The best lawyers won't just survive this wave of AI. They're gonna dominate. If your work is mostly surface level, AI is gonna replace you. To remain indispensable, focus on outcomes and hidden risks. Understanding the chessboard of legal scenarios is crucial. Lawyers must evolve their skills to adapt to AI advancements. AI should be seen as a tool, not a replacement. Strategic thinking is key in the legal profession. The future of law requires innovation and adaptation. Surface-level tasks can be automated, but deeper insights cannot. Indispensable lawyers will thrive in the AI era. Resource Links ChatGPT Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) Apply to join the ChatGPT Lab The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.  

 In this episode, California attorney Jeff Lewis and I discuss the recent Clio conference that took place in Boston, which we both attended along with 2,700 other lawyers.  There was a lot of discussion about AI and how its growing adoption will impact lawyers in the coming years.  We of course will discuss Richard Susskind's Keynote speech, which was a disturbing warning about the massive disruption AI is likely to bring to the legal profession. Jeff called it a "gut punch" and you'll want to hear why he found Susskind's speech so unsettling.  Topics Discussed Clio's New AI Tools and Integration Plans The Legal Trends Report and Data Insights Clio's 1$ Billion V-Lex Acquisition and what it means Peggy Gruenke's KPI Session Takeaways Richard Susskind's take on AI and the Future of Law AI Adoption Challenges and Lawyer Resistance Future of Legal Careers and AI Skills Lawyer Reactions to Susskind's AI Predictions Resource Links Ernie's LinkedIn post summarizing Susskind's speech Jeff Lewis's law firm website Jeff's legal podcast ChatGPT Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) Apply to join the ChatGPT Lab The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.  

What if you could run a thriving 40-person law firm entirely from your smartphone? In this episode, attorney Elise Buie—known as "The Smartphone Lawyer"—shares how she scaled her Seattle-based family law practice through radical delegation, smart systems, and the strategic use of virtual assistants. From hiring and managing overseas talent to automating key workflows, Elise reveals how she built a firm that operates seamlessly, even when she's halfway around the world. She also breaks down the mindset shifts lawyers need to overcome perfectionism, embrace technology, and trust others to get things done. Whether you're a solo practitioner or managing a growing team, you'll learn how to delegate more effectively, streamline your operations, and create a practice that supports your life—not the other way around. Topics Covered Overview of Elise's Practice Using Virtual Assistants for 24/7 Support The Power of Delegation Overcoming Perfectionism and Letting Go Delegating Personal Life Tasks How to Start Delegating and Write SOPs Focusing on High-Value Work Running a Law Firm from a Smartphone Slack as a Central Command Hub Why Elise's Firm Pays for Slack Key Apps: Clio, Dropbox, and Payroll Tools Using Loom for Communication AI Note-Taking and Granola Recommendation Hiring and Onboarding Virtual Assistants Filipino Virtual Assistants and Firm Culture Addressing Privacy and Security Concerns How Elise's Firm Uses AI Final Advice: Delegate Everything You Can Resource Links Elise's firm website Elise's LinkedIn page Elise's email address: [email protected] Granola AI notetaking tool ChatGPT Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) Apply to join the ChatGPT Lab The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.  

Email isn't dead—it's dominating. In this episode, email marketing expert Tyler Cook explains why email remains the highest ROI marketing channel for lawyers (and just about everyone else). You'll learn: Why email still outperforms social media by a mile What kind of emails people actually want to read The 3 automations every lawyer should set up—no exceptions How to use AI to write powerful emails fast (without sounding robotic) The truth about open rates, sender reputation, and avoiding spam filters Whether you're brand new to email marketing or ready to take your list to the next level, this episode gives you a clear roadmap—and some surprising tactics most lawyers miss. Plus: Tyler shares his favorite pro-level deliverability tips, and how even a tiny list can bring in big results when used the right way. Resource Links Tyler Cook: LinkedIn profile Tyler Cook: Hypermedia website Tyler Cook: newsletter about email marketing Rand Fiskin (SEO expert) Perry Marshall (author of 80/20 Marketing book) Neverbounce (email verification) Beehiiv (email platform for newsletters) Hubspot (CRM and email sending platform) Dean Jackson (email marketing guru) Hoppy Copy (helps write good emails) Jarvis (AI-powered marketing copy) Copy.ai (marketing copy assistant) Google Alerts (get automatically notified of important news) ChatGPT Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) Apply to join the ChatGPT Lab The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.  

Law firms love their SOPs—binders full of screenshots, arrows, and step-by-step instructions. But here's the problem: they take months to build, cost thousands to produce, and go out of date the moment software updates. There's a better way. In this episode, I break down how forward-thinking lawyers are replacing outdated SOPs with AI-powered prompt libraries that actually get work done. You'll hear real examples, learn why prompts are more reliable than manuals, and see how this simple shift can save your firm hours every week. If your SOP binder feels more like dead weight than a useful tool, this episode will show you what to do instead. Episode Links ChatGPT Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) Apply to join the ChatGPT Lab The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.  

AI is changing how people search for lawyers, and that means your website has to do more than just "look professional." In this episode, Megan Hargroder (of Legends Legal Marketing) explains what works—and what doesn't—when it comes to getting found online today.  Megan also shares a powerful new strategy for ranking ethically while building long-term trust with potential clients. Episode Links Legends Legal Marketing website Book a free strategy call with Megan ChatGPT Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) Apply to join the ChatGPT Lab The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.  

When big news drops—whether it's politics, celebrity scandal, or the launch of GPT-5—the internet spins into a frenzy of hot takes, half-truths, and hype. In this episode, we discuss the rollout of GPT-5 as a case study in how to filter out bad information, pace your learning, and make better decisions without getting sucked into the vortex. You'll hear why intentionality matters more than speed, how to choose the right sources, and the simple habits that keep you focused on what's real and useful. Resource Links ChatGPT Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) Apply to join the ChatGPT Lab The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.  

As AI tools become more prevalent in law practice, how do we keep our client data secure? In this episode, we address the biggest risks lawyers face and how to navigate them without losing the benefits of tools like ChatGPT. You'll hear the latest insights from a consensus group of 30 legal pros, including what paid AI tools to trust, how to enable privacy settings, and why redacting sensitive info (and getting client consent) is non-negotiable. Plus, a behind-the-scenes look at the ChatGPT Lab—your go-to hub for safe, effective AI use in law. General Resources OpenAI's FAQs on Memory Handling Carolyn Elefant's AI 'Teach-In' for Lawyers (get recordings here) Other Resources ChatGPT Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) Apply to join the ChatGPT Lab The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The 5 Pillars of a Tech-Powered Law Practice The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.  

Too many lawyers focus only on digital marketing and overlook one of the most effective ways to reach clients: direct mail. In this episode, you'll hear from Wilson Zehr, the creator of ZairMail, about why direct mail remains effective and how his platform makes it as simple as sending an email. Wilson breaks down the costs, strategies, and formats that help lawyers connect with their ideal clients through the mailbox. General Resources Zair Mail Wilson Zehr's LinkedIn Profile Other Resources ChatGPT Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) Apply to join the ChatGPT Lab  The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The 5 Pillars of a Tech-Powered Law Practice The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.