The Straw Backlash: Why Guilt Doesn't Work

Every scientist makes advocacy choices every day, whether they admit it or not. The questions you ask, the communities you engage, the issues you spend your time on, and the moments you stay quiet all push the world in one direction. Oceana's Chief Scientist, Dr. Katie Matthews, argues that staying silent on an issue you care about quietly props up the status quo, and in ocean conservation the status quo is usually the problem. Recorded between meetings while Katie was in Panama, this conversation previews her plenary at IMCC8, the 8th International Marine Conservation Congress in Edinburgh. Katie explains how Oceana builds campaign teams across five disciplines (science, law, grassroots organizing, communications and media, and policy and lobbying) and what scientists trained in academia have to unlearn to work alongside lawyers and campaigners. She shares how Oceana's scientists published an estimate of Amazon's plastic packaging footprint when the company would not release its own, then invited Amazon to prove them wrong. Andrew and Katie also tackle the question many scientists are asking after a turbulent election week in the United States: when is the right time to speak up? Katie's answer is to make it personal, because people forget facts and figures and remember stories. She closes with a reminder that some of the biggest names in conservation, including The Nature Conservancy and the Environmental Defense Fund, were founded by scientists who refused to stop at research. Takeaways Neutrality is a myth: choosing your research questions, partners and issues is already a form of advocacy. Staying silent on an issue you care about supports the status quo. Scientists in campaign organizations work as one discipline among equals, alongside law, organizing, communications and policy. When data is hidden or missing, a transparent, assumption-labelled estimate can push companies and governments to disclose their own numbers. Personal stories persuade more effectively than statistics. Scientist-led advocacy has deep roots: The Nature Conservancy and EDF both started with scientists who wanted to act on what they knew.

Ocean science only protects the ocean when people outside the lab hear it. Dr. David Shiffman, interdisciplinary marine conservation biologist and author of Why Sharks Matter, returns to the show to preview the symposium he organized for the International Marine Conservation Congress: Ocean Science and Conservation Communication: What's New and What's Next. Andrew is one of the presenters. Dave explains why IMCC stands apart from other scientific meetings, with government officials, practitioners, advocates, teachers and artists in the same room as researchers, and why the tools and the policy landscape for science communication have shifted so much in the last few years. He shares his goals for the symposium, including a peer-reviewed paper the speakers and focus group will write together on what works now and what the community should stop doing. The conversation then gets personal. Dave talks about starting on TikTok and Reels, lowering his own polish standards, and turning his online intro to marine biology course into short clips. Andrew and Dave dig into why audiences are craving real human voices as AI-generated ocean videos and voice clones spread, and why more communicators from more places makes the whole field stronger. Takeaways IMCC brings scientists, decision makers, advocates and educators together, so research reaches people who can act on it. Science communication is a skill set most STEM graduate programs never teach. Treat non-expert audiences with respect; they are experts in other fields. The symposium aims to produce a peer-reviewed paper of shared principles for ocean communicators. Short-form video rewards conversational, unpolished delivery more than studio perfection. Audiences are seeking authentic human voices as AI fakes and voice clones spread. More communicators from more regions and cultures helps everyone reach new audiences. Networking builds the relationships that help get protected areas declared and species listed.

Ask most people what the lungs of the planet are, and they'll say forests. Marine biologist Emily Cunningham would point you to phytoplankton: tiny drifting algae that produce about half the oxygen made on Earth. That gap between what the ocean does for us and what we think it does is why she wrote her first book. Our Ocean to Save: How to Protect Our Greatest Climate Ally is Emily's answer to the question she hears more than any other: "What can I do to help the ocean?" Not a list of don'ts, but a hopeful, practical guide for anyone, anywhere. In this episode, Emily tells Andrew how a manatee CD-ROM game turned a landlocked kid from Staffordshire into a marine biologist, how a viral Twitter thread from Antarctica led to a book deal, and why she started seeing ocean threats as symptoms of bigger social problems after volunteering with a community-led turtle project in Sri Lanka. She explains shifting baselines in plain language, how she went from restoration skeptic to convert, why hope is a verb, and why research suggests we only need about one in four people on board to change what society expects. And she shares how Motion for the Ocean, the local government ocean recovery declaration she co-founded, has been passed by more than 40 councils across the UK, and how you can bring it to your own town, even if you live by a lake. Links mentioned in this episode Our Ocean to Save (North America), Chelsea Green: https://www.chelseagreen.com/?p=2121059 Our Ocean to Save (UK), Pan Macmillan: https://www.panmacmillan.com/authors/emily-cunningham/our-ocean-to-save/9781035065271 Motion for the Ocean: https://oceanconservationtrust.org/project/the-motion-for-the-ocean/ Emily Cunningham: https://emilycunningham.co.uk Emily on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marinebiologylife Billion Oyster Project: https://www.billionoysterproject.org Last week's episodes on Tofino and the plastics treaty (2059, 2061):  Tofino Plastic episode: https://www.speakupforblue.com/show/speak-up-for-the-ocean-blue/podcast-245/ Plastic Treaty episode: https://www.speakupforblue.com/show/speak-up-for-the-ocean-blue/podcast-247/ Andrew's earlier interview with Emily, recorded in Malaysia: https://www.speakupforblue.com/show/speak-up-for-the-ocean-blue/reaching-out-to-politicians-and-international-adaptation-of-motion4theocean/ Takeaways The ocean is a climate ally: phytoplankton produce about half of Earth's oxygen and the ocean absorbs huge amounts of heat and carbon People do care about the ocean; what's missing is a clear, positive path to action Shifting baselines hide how much abundance we've lost, so imagine the ocean you want, not just the one you know Let yourself grieve, then channel that feeling into action with other people Many ocean threats are symptoms of poverty and injustice; conservation works best with communities in the driving seat Restoration isn't a substitute for tackling causes, but it's a powerful way to bring new people in Your action: ask your local council to pass a Motion for the Ocean, or set a calendar reminder to follow through on your own ocean action

Have you ever had an idea for your community, like a beach cleanup, a water fountain, or a patch of shoreline that needs some love, and thought, "If I just had a little money, I could make this happen"? That kind of funding is hard to find. In the UK, there's a charity built for exactly that. Sea-Changers was founded about 15 years ago by Helen Webb and Rachel Lopata, two divers with no background in marine science who watched the places they loved underwater start to decline. Instead of starting one project, they started a way to fund hundreds. They bring in money from businesses and foundations and hand it out as small grants, mostly £500 to £2,500, to community-led marine conservation projects across the UK. By their count, that's more than 600 projects so far. In this episode, recorded the week before Andrew heads to the International Marine Conservation Congress (IMCC8) in Edinburgh, Helen and Rachel share how they turned ocean anxiety into action, why they let communities choose their own priorities, and why some projects deserve funding on faith. You'll hear how an early grant helped Project Seagrass get started, how a small innovation grant proved dogs can sniff out invasive sea squirts, how a learning fund connects isolated groups across Scotland, and why income is still one of the biggest barriers to taking part in conservation. Helen and Rachel are speaking on the "Small Grants, Big Impact" panel at IMCC8. If you're there, come find them, and Andrew. Links mentioned in this episode Sea-Changers: https://www.sea-changers.org.uk/ Sea-Changers Innovation Fund: https://www.sea-changers.org.uk/innovation-fund Project Seagrass: https://www.projectseagrass.org/about IMCC8, Edinburgh, November 13 to 17, 2026: https://conbio.org/mini-sites/imcc8/ Last week's episode: Lilly Woodbury, Surfrider Foundation Canada: https://www.speakupforblue.com/show/speak-up-for-the-ocean-blue/podcast-243/ Andrew's episode with Chad Nelson, Surfrider Foundation CEO: https://www.speakupforblue.com/show/speak-up-for-the-ocean-blue/sufb-1195-grassroots-marine-conservation/ Sea-Changers socials Instagram: @beaseachanger, https://www.instagram.com/beaseachanger/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/seachangersorg/ LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/company/sea-changers Support Independent Podcasts: https://www.speakupforblue.com/patreon Need help with your ocean non-profit, company, or project? Get the help you need with Pisces Oceans Inc.: https://www.piscesoceans.ca Connect with Speak Up For Blue Website: https://bit.ly/3fOF3Wf Instagram: https://bit.ly/3rIaJSG TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@speakupforblue Twitter: https://bit.ly/3rHZxpc YouTube: www.speakupforblue.com/youtube  

"We'll never see that in our lifetime." You've probably heard it about the ocean. Andrew has heard it plenty, and admits he's said it too. For years it was the standard answer about protecting the high seas, the two-thirds of the ocean that lies beyond any country's borders. Then the High Seas Treaty was agreed, entered into force in January 2026, and passed 100 countries in September, Canada included. In this week's wrap-up, Andrew uses that win to show why a global plastics treaty can happen too, and how it gets built from the ground up. He walks through the ladder: a town like Tofino banning plastics one item at a time, the case that takes to the province, Canada's national single-use plastics ban and the court fight over it, and finally the global treaty talks, where more than 100 countries back cutting plastic production while a handful of oil producers and a crowd of industry lobbyists push back. You'll hear why the lobbyists showing up is a sign the treaty is a real threat to business as usual, what high-ambition countries could do if the UN process stalls, why community pride like the kind Andrew saw around Lake Superior is the energy this needs, and the one email you can send before the weekend. Links mentioned in this episode Surfrider Foundation Canada: Take action and email your MP: https://www.canada.surfrider.org/take-action Start or join a Surfrider Canada chapter or club: https://canada.surfrider.org/get-involved High Seas Alliance: High Seas Treaty passes 100 parties (September 2026): https://highseasalliance.org/2026/09/23/the-high-seas-treaty-reaches-100-parties-cementing-momentum-ahead-of-its-first-conference/ Geneva Environment Network: Global Plastics Treaty timeline and INC-5.4: https://www.genevaenvironmentnetwork.org/resources/updates/international-cooperation-on-plastic-pollution/ Monday's episode: Lilly Woodbury, Surfrider Foundation Canada: https://www.speakupforblue.com/show/speak-up-for-the-ocean-blue/podcast-243/ Tuesday's episode: Too Enthusiastic? Finding your place in ocean action: https://www.speakupforblue.com/show/speak-up-for-the-ocean-blue/podcast-244/ Wednesday's episode: The Beach That Doesn't Need Cleaning Anymore: https://www.speakupforblue.com/show/speak-up-for-the-ocean-blue/podcast-245/ [ADD LINK] Thursday's episode: The Straw Backlash: Why Guilt Doesn't Work: https://www.speakupforblue.com/show/speak-up-for-the-ocean-blue/podcast-246/ Takeaways "Not in our lifetime" was the answer on the high seas for years, until the High Seas Treaty became international law in 2026 Big agreements take patient, resilient people willing to compromise, and enough public push Local plastic bans become proof for provinces, provincial rules become proof for countries, and national bans build the case for a global treaty Canada's single-use plastics ban survived a Federal Court of Appeal challenge in January 2026; the Supreme Court will hear industry's appeal next More than 100 countries back a path to cutting plastic production; a handful of oil producers are blocking it Record lobbyist turnout signals that industry sees the treaty as a real threat Your action: email your MP before the weekend and ask Ottawa to be ambitious on plastics Support Independent Podcasts: https://www.speakupforblue.com/patreon Need help with your ocean non-profit, company, or project? Get the help you need with Pisces Oceans Inc.: https://www.piscesoceans.ca Connect with Speak Up For Blue Website: https://bit.ly/3fOF3Wf Instagram: https://bit.ly/3rIaJSG TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@speakupforblue Twitter: https://bit.ly/3rHZxpc YouTube: www.speakupforblue.com/youtube  

"You can't care about plastic. Your phone is made of plastic." If you've ever heard that, you know what it's for. It's designed to make you feel like a hypocrite, so you give up. In this episode, Andrew goes back to one of the most famous moments in plastic pollution: the 2015 video of researchers in Costa Rica pulling a plastic straw from an olive ridley sea turtle's nose. A few months later, the same researcher pulled a plastic fork from another turtle. The straw video helped spark a global push against single-use plastics, and then the straw itself became a punchline. Andrew explains why the straw was never the point (it was a gateway to all the single-use plastic we don't need), why the backlash is louder than it is large, and why plastic has grown from a turtle problem into a human health, climate and biodiversity issue. Then he gets to the heart of it: guilt doesn't work. Plastic is a system design problem, not a personal failing, and solutions-first conversations bring people in where blame pushes them away. You'll leave with a simple answer to the next "your phone is plastic" comment. Links mentioned in this episode The 2015 sea turtle straw video (graphic): https://youtu.be/d2J2qdOrW44 Oceana Canada and Abacus Data (2024): Canadians' support for the single-use plastics ban: https://oceana.ca/en/press-releases/tackling-plastic-pollution-is-a-non-partisan-issue-oceana-canada-poll-shows-vast-majority-of-canadians-still-support-banning-single-use-plastics IMCC8, Edinburgh, November 13 to 17, 2026: https://conbio.org/mini-sites/imcc8/ Takeaways "Your phone is made of plastic" is a guilt trap designed to make you give up The straw video went viral in 2015 and helped launch a global push against single-use plastics The straw was never the point; it was a gateway to all the single-use plastic we don't need Polls show most Canadians support the single-use plastics ban; the backlash is a loud minority Plastic is now a human health, climate, biodiversity and human rights issue, not just a turtle problem Guilt makes people tune out; solutions-first messages bring them in Your action: next time someone says "your phone is plastic," agree, and say that's exactly why the system needs to change

Picture a beach cleanup. Two hours of hauling bottles, wrappers and foam off the sand. Now picture the same beach ten years later, where you walk the whole length and come home empty-handed. Not because nobody cleaned it, but because there's nothing left to clean. That's a real story, and it happened in Tofino, a surf town on the west coast of Vancouver Island. In 2016 its beaches were covered in plastic, and the local Surfrider chapter realized they could clean every weekend for the rest of their lives and it would never stop. So they changed tactics. They went to the businesses handing out single-use plastic, skipped the blame and shame, and spoke to what those businesses cared about: being environmental leaders. Andrew walks through the playbook that followed. Make the early adopters the heroes. Offer real alternatives, reusables first and locally compostable fibre second. Keep straws on hand for people who need them. Then lock it in with policy. Over a decade, Tofino and Ucluelet banned plastic straws, bags, foam takeout containers and cutlery, and this past April Tofino became the first municipality in Canada to ban the sale of single-use plastic water bottles. You'll also hear why a committed minority can be enough to tip a community, and the one conversation you can have this week to start the same thing where you live. Links mentioned in this episode Surfrider Foundation Canada: https://canada.surfrider.org Start or join a chapter or club: https://canada.surfrider.org/get-involved Surfrider Pacific Rim coastal victories: https://pacificrim.surfrider.org/victories District of Tofino: single-use items bylaw: https://tofino.ca/public-services/safety/bylaw-enforcement/single-use-items/ District of Tofino: Canada's first plastic water bottle ban: https://tofino.ca/tofino-makes-history-on-earth-day-as-canadas-first-municipality-to-ban-single-use-plastic-water-bottles/ Centola et al. (2018), Science: tipping points in social convention: https://doi.org/10.1126/science.aas8827 Monday's episode: Lilly Woodbury, Surfrider Foundation Canada: https://www.speakupforblue.com/show/speak-up-for-the-ocean-blue/podcast-243/ Takeaways Cleanups matter, but the goal is to make them unnecessary by stopping plastic at the source Tofino's volunteers stopped blaming businesses and spoke to what they valued: pride in being environmental leaders Promoting a few early adopters made other businesses want in Real alternatives made change possible: reusables first, locally compostable fibre second, rigid bioplastics skipped Accessibility stays in the plan: straws on hand for anyone who needs one Voluntary change builds support; bans lock it in for everyone Your action: have one friendly conversation with a local business owner about reusables Support Independent Podcasts: https://www.speakupforblue.com/patreon Need help with your ocean non-profit, company, or project? Get the help you need with Pisces Oceans Inc.: https://www.piscesoceans.ca Connect with Speak Up For Blue Website: https://bit.ly/3fOF3Wf Instagram: https://bit.ly/3rIaJSG TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@speakupforblue Twitter: https://bit.ly/3rHZxpc YouTube: www.speakupforblue.com/youtube  

Do you ever feel disconnected from ocean action? You sign the petition, you donate, you share the post, and you still don't feel like you're doing the work. Andrew knows the feeling. Fresh out of his undergrad, he emailed organization after organization offering to help for free, and mostly heard nothing back. In this episode he explains why that happens (it usually comes down to trust and how organizations take on volunteers), and how to get past it. He also retells the story of Lilly Woodbury from yesterday's episode: an environmental studies grad who kept hitting the same wall until she showed up to a Surfrider meeting in Tofino. A decade later, she's the campaigns and storytelling director at Surfrider Foundation Canada. You'll hear why following your curiosity beats waiting to find your passion, why you should look for groups that invest in people, why you don't need to be a surfer to join Surfrider, and exactly what it takes to start a chapter or student club where you live. Links mentioned in this episode Surfrider Foundation Canada: https://canada.surfrider.org Start or join a chapter or club: https://canada.surfrider.org/get-involved Surfrider Canada student clubs: https://canada.surfrider.org/student-clubs Surfrider Atlantic Canada: https://atlantic.surfrider.org Surfrider Foundation (US chapters): https://www.surfrider.org Yesterday's episode: Lilly Woodbury, Surfrider Foundation Canada: https://www.speakupforblue.com/show/speak-up-for-the-ocean-blue/podcast-243/ Takeaways Offering to help for free often goes nowhere because organizations need trust and capacity to take on volunteers Big organizations mostly ask you to donate or sign; that can leave you feeling like a spectator You don't need a degree, a scuba ticket or a surfboard to contribute in a real way Follow your curiosity: showing up to one meeting or event can open doors you didn't know existed Look for groups that invest in people and help you build skills, not ones that just need tasks done People come for the impact and stay for the community, and that shared identity is how ocean culture shifts Your action this week: find one local group and go to one event. You don't have to speak; just listen Support Independent Podcasts: https://www.speakupforblue.com/patreon Need help with your ocean non-profit, company, or project? Get the help you need with Pisces Oceans Inc.: https://www.piscesoceans.ca Connect with Speak Up For Blue Website: https://bit.ly/3fOF3Wf Instagram: https://bit.ly/3rIaJSG TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@speakupforblue Twitter: https://bit.ly/3rHZxpc YouTube: www.speakupforblue.com/youtube  

Do you ever feel like ocean action is happening somewhere else? You sign the petition, maybe donate, but you're not really part of the work. Lilly Woodbury knows that feeling, and she found her way in by walking into a Surfrider meeting in Tofino in 2016. Lilly is the campaigns and storytelling director at Surfrider Foundation Canada. In this episode she tells Andrew how a small volunteer chapter helped Tofino and Ucluelet ban plastic straws, bags, cutlery and foam containers, and how Tofino became the first municipality in Canada to ban single-use plastic water bottles. Ten years in, she says the local beaches are so clean the chapter no longer runs cleanups there. You'll hear why Surfrider works with businesses instead of against them, why blaming and shaming individuals backfires, and why people come for the impact but stay for the community. Lilly also explains how Surfrider Canada became its own international affiliate in 2022, how local bans build pressure for provincial, federal and global action on plastics, and exactly what it takes to start a chapter or student club where you live. No surfboard required. Links mentioned in this episode Surfrider Foundation Canada: https://canada.surfrider.org Start a chapter or club: https://canada.surfrider.org/get-involved Take action and email your MP: https://www.canada.surfrider.org/take-action Surfrider Pacific Rim victories: https://pacificrim.surfrider.org/victories District of Tofino: Canada's first plastic water bottle ban: https://tofino.ca/tofino-makes-history-on-earth-day-as-canadas-first-municipality-to-ban-single-use-plastic-water-bottles/ Andrew's episode with Chad Nelsen, Surfrider Foundation CEO: https://www.speakupforblue.com/show/speak-up-for-the-ocean-blue/surfrider-40-years-of-celebrating-community-and-coastal-conservation/ Andrew's episodes on the sea turtle straw video with Nathan Robinson: https://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/3847721 Surfrider Foundation Canada socials Instagram: @surfrider_canada X: @SurfriderCanada Takeaways You don't have to watch ocean action from the sidelines; local chapters let you do the work alongside your community Surfrider meets businesses where they are, works with suppliers on alternatives, and promotes early adopters until others want in Reusables come first; where that's not possible, locally compostable fibre beats rigid bioplastics Guilt-based messaging turns people off; solutions and shared identity keep them engaged Local bans prove what works, then become the case for provincial, national and global action The goal of a cleanup is to make cleanups unnecessary Starting a chapter takes a committed group of five to nine people, some seed funding, and a relationship with the local Indigenous nation from day one

Picture a kid at an aquarium in Durban, standing in front of the penguins with a pen and a postcard. She writes one sentence, a promise to change one habit for the ocean, and drops it into a little post box. More than a year later, researchers emailed visitors like her to ask if they'd kept their promise. About half could point to a real change they'd made. This week's episodes covered a lot: marine protected areas nobody can name, a reef that rebuilt itself, and why "fishing is bad" pushes people away. If all of that left you feeling heavy, this episode is for you. Andrew talks about eco-anxiety, the freeze that comes from caring about a problem this big, and shares the moment with a family member that pushed him into science communication: most people care, but nobody has handed them a first step that fits their life. Then he takes you to uShaka Sea World, where educator Gabrielle Harris launched Penguin Promises in 2011 for the African penguin, a species now listed as Critically Endangered. You'll hear why one handwritten promise worked when so many campaigns fade at the exit, how Wild Alliance Africa turns MPA Day on the Aliwal Shoal into a day out with friends, and the one action that ties the whole week together. Links mentioned in this episode Penguin Promises (SAAMBR / uShaka Sea World): https://www.saambr.org.za/?p=23234 Mann, Ballantyne & Packer (2018), the Penguin Promises follow-up study: https://doi.org/10.1080/13504622.2017.1365355 Wild Alliance Africa's MPA Day on the Aliwal Shoal (2025 coverage): https://risingsunnewspapers.co.za/314660/wild-alliance-africa-celebrates-mpa-day-on-kzn-south-coast/ Tuesday's episode: why nobody can name a marine protected area: https://www.speakupforblue.com/show/speak-up-for-the-ocean-blue/podcast-239/ Wednesday's episode: the reef that rebuilt itself: https://www.speakupforblue.com/show/speak-up-for-the-ocean-blue/podcast-240/ Thursday's episode: why "fishing is bad" backfires: https://www.speakupforblue.com/show/speak-up-for-the-ocean-blue/podcast-241/ Takeaways Eco-anxiety can freeze you in place: the problem feels so big that every action seems pointless, so you do nothing and feel worse Most people care about the ocean; they're overwhelmed, and nobody has handed them a first step that fits their life Penguin Promises asked aquarium visitors for one written promise instead of money, and collected more than 10,000 by 2015 In a follow-up 12 to 18 months later, about half of respondents could describe a positive change they'd made because of their promise The postcard worked because it was specific, handwritten, small enough to start that day, and tied to something people loved Starting in your own community, and with a group, gives you impact plus people who share your values Your action: write down one specific ocean promise, put it where you'll see it every day, and tell someone Support Independent Podcasts: https://www.speakupforblue.com/patreon Need help with your ocean non-profit, company, or project? Get the help you need with Pisces Oceans Inc.: https://www.piscesoceans.ca Connect with Speak Up For Blue Website: https://bit.ly/3fOF3Wf Instagram: https://bit.ly/3rIaJSG TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@speakupforblue Twitter: https://bit.ly/3rHZxpc YouTube: www.speakupforblue.com/youtube