202 - Detransitioned After Three Decades as a Trans Man, with Jessi

Stella O’Malley and Sasha Ayad are two therapists interested in how the concept of gender is impacting our culture and shaping our society. For nearly a decade, we've been exploring sex and gender and helping patients and families impacted by gender issues. As we've dug into the shifting concepts of identity, gender, and transition, we felt unsatisfied by clichés, mental health platitudes, and modern gender jargon.Have you ever thought there's got to be more to all this trans stuff than political slogans? Well, we're right there with you. Since 2020, on our podcast, Gender: A Wider Lens, we've discussed all things trans with brilliant guests, including academic philosophers, journalists, doctors, therapists, trans people, detrans people, parents, and many others. In hundreds of conversations, we've tried to hold a spirit of honesty and compassion while staying grounded in reality and sanity.After four years of creating this podcast, we're shifting gears into our Substack only Live and Unfiltered events. Once a month, you can now join us on Substack for discussions about current events in the gender world and analysis of your favorite episodes of Gender: A Wider Lens. Grab your coffee or cocktail and hang out with us in our new live and unrecorded private sessions.Don't worry, our entire huge archive of episodes isn't going anywhere. You can still find us on all major podcast platforms, and you can watch us on YouTube and look at helpful playlists that organize past episodes so you can find exactly what you're looking for. But our main hub continues to be Substack, where you can listen to four years’ worth of free episodes, or become a paid subscriber to join our new monthly, Live and Unfiltered events.Our paid Substack membership is also the only place to access over 100 premium episodes featuring answers to listener questions and bonus content with our guests. We'd love for you to come and say hi, drop us a question, or tell us what episodes you'd like us to analyze. So join us on Substack. As we look at gender, from a wider lens. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Sasha and Stella come together for the finale episode of Gender: a Wider Lens, reflecting on four years of sharing conversations, psychological analysis, and interviews centered around the exploration of gender identity, the evolving cultural landscape, and the trans discourse. Together, they have produced over 200 episodes providing informative insights and practical approaches for listeners, whether they have loved ones questioning their gender, are professionals encountering or supporting gender-questioning youth, or individuals grappling with their own gender identity.In this final conversation, Sasha and Stella reflect on some of their most memorable episodes and pivotal discussions, marking significant progressions in the evolving understanding of identity development and gender transition. They also share details about each of their new resources in development, as well as the new live and unfiltered sessions they will be hosting each month together.It's been a remarkable progression - from early observations of unusual patterns with gender-questioning teens inspiring the opening episode of the show exploring identity vs. dysphoria, to interviews with professional pioneers in gender medicine, to conversations with parents, trans individuals, school professionals, clinicians, journalists, authors, researchers, doctors, lawyers, politicians, activists, whistleblowers, spouses of trans people, children of trans people, and a growing list of detransitioners each with their own unique story and insights - a wide lens of different perspectives, offering reflections on gender and the shifting public consciousness around social and medical transition.For links to resources featured in this episode, there's more to explore, access the full show notes at https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/episode-205 Buy Our Book – When Kids Say They’re Trans: A Guide for Thoughtful Parents at https://whenkidssaytheyretrans.com/   Join Our Listener Community to Access Exclusive Content at https://www.widerlenspod.com/   Support the Show at https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/support-the-show   Join the conversation on YouTube at www.youtube.com/@widerlenspod  For more information about Sasha’s & Stella’s parent coaching membership groups, visit:Sasha Ayad: https://sashaayad.com/parenting-coaching   Stella O’Malley: http://www.stellaomalley.com/parent-coaching  This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe   This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

While healthcare is expected to be guided by evidence-based practice and individualized patient care, there seems to be a growing perception that some medical professionals may be more focused on advancing ideological influence rather than prioritizing individualized patient care.The gender-affirming model of care functions as a streamlined path toward medical transition, often without sufficient psychological evaluation or exploration of alternatives. Many medical providers appear to follow a predetermined course rather than carefully assessing each patient’s unique circumstances. This raises serious ethical concerns about whether patients—particularly minors—are receiving the thorough, cautious care they deserve.Additionally, the reluctance to critically discuss or debate aspects of gender medicine suggests that the field has become entangled with broader political movements. In some cases, dissenting voices, including those of detransitioners, have struggled to be heard, as their experiences challenge dominant narratives about gender-affirming care.“It's sad that so many more parents I feel would speak out if it weren't so stigmatized to question anything related to child transition. And it makes me really sad because I know my parents have a lot they wish they could say and they just can't. And even if they did, they would be attacked and called liars, which is really sad to me.”In this bonus episode for premium subscribers, Clementine discusses the societal and medical influences that shaped her transition, expressing concern about the growing politicization of gender medicine. While she supports the right of adults to pursue body modifications, she argues that irreversible procedures affecting bodily function should be limited to those who are fully mature and capable of making such significant decisions. She describes how stopping testosterone significantly improved her mental health, suggesting a link between high testosterone levels and psychosis in women. And she reflects on the role her family and partner played in her detransition, highlighting the importance of having someone who saw her as a person beyond identity labels.Watch our full length episode with Clementine Breen: https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/episode-204For instructions on setting up a private feed to listen to our premium content in your favorite podcast app, visit https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/how-to-listen-to-our-full-premium. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Looking for support as a parent of a gender-questioning youth or young adult? Attend a Wider Lens Parent Retreat in 2025! Registration is now open. Visit https://widerlens.events/parent-retreat-2025 to learn more and secure your spot.Sasha and Stella welcome Clementine Breen, a 20-year-old young woman who detransitioned after undergoing rapid medicalization as a child. Clementine was a patient of Dr. Johanna Olson-Kennedy, one of the most prominent advocates for pediatric gender medicine. Beginning at age 12, she was placed on puberty blockers, prescribed testosterone, and underwent a double mastectomy—all by the age of 14.In this episode, she shares her story, shedding light on the devastating consequences of fast-tracked gender-affirming care. Clementine discusses how following her surgery, she experienced severe mental health struggles, including dissociation, self-harm, and a suicide attempt, yet clinicians remained focused solely on continuing her transition despite her worsening mental status. Clementine shares how, years later, proper therapy allowed her to uncover deeper psychological and childhood issues, exposing the failure of superficial gender-affirming care to address underlying trauma.This conversation exposes the dangerous flaws in the gender medicine model and the lack of psychological evaluation for vulnerable youth. Clementine’s experience underscores the failures of the pediatric gender medical establishment, and the urgent need for accountability in a system that prioritizes affirmation over comprehensive care.For links and resources relevant to this episode, access the full show notes at https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/episode-204 Buy Our Book – When Kids Say They’re Trans: A Guide for Thoughtful Parents at https://whenkidssaytheyretrans.com/   Join Our Listener Community to Access Exclusive Content at https://www.widerlenspod.com/   Support the Show at https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/support-the-show   Join the conversation on YouTube at www.youtube.com/@widerlenspod  For more information about Sasha’s & Stella’s parent coaching membership groups, visit:Sasha Ayad: https://sashaayad.com/parenting-coaching   Stella O’Malley: http://www.stellaomalley.com/parent-coaching  To learn more about our sponsors, visit:Therapy First at https://www.therapyfirst.org/  Genspect at https://genspect.org/  This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe   This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

The DSM diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria are rooted in outdated sex-based stereotypes, reinforcing rigid and superficial notions of what it means to be male or female. These criteria often emphasize preferences in clothing, activities, and playmates, implying that natural variations in a child’s behavior may signal a fundamental misalignment between their gender identity and biological sex.Historically, gender nonconformity in children was recognized as a common and unremarkable aspect of personality and development. However, cultural shifts and the rise of social media have amplified stereotypes, leading many to pathologize behaviors that once fell within the broad spectrum of normal childhood expression. A boy who enjoys dolls or a girl who prefers rough-and-tumble play is now more likely than ever to be viewed through a diagnostic lens that suggests “misalignment with their sex” rather than an expansion of what it means to be a boy or a girl.In this bonus episode for premium subscribers, Dr. Marieke den Ouden examines how the DSM’s shift from “sex” to “gender” has introduced diagnostic ambiguity, increasing the risk of over-diagnosing children based on nonconformity to traditional gender roles. Highlighting inconsistencies across international definitions, she warns of the legal and policy ramifications of vague gender identity standards, particularly for women’s rights and medical ethics. She presents a critical yet measured perspective, calling for greater clarity and scientific integrity. She advocates for a re-evaluation of gender dysphoria diagnosis to ensure that criteria are based on objective, measurable factors rather than social perceptions of gender roles, ensuring that medical and psychological interventions serve those in genuine need without unnecessarily pathologizing diverse expressions of personality and identity.Watch our full length episode with Marieke den Ouden: https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/episode-203For instructions on setting up a private feed to listen to our premium content in your favorite podcast app, visit https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/how-to-listen-to-our-full-premium. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Sasha and Stella welcome Dr. Marieke den Ouden, a medical biologist and psychologist, about pediatric gender medicine in the Netherlands. While the Dutch Protocol is believed to ensure thorough mental health evaluations, Marieke reveals inconsistencies in its application. She discusses a new survey gathering input from extended family on a child’s mental health and gender identity, raising questions about bias in reporting. The conversation also explores the clinical foundations of gender medicine, examining how early researchers with backgrounds in disorders of sexual development (DSDs) shaped the field. Their search for a biological basis of gender identity—whether in hormones, chromosomes, or brain structures—led to a medicalized approach to gender distress. This framing has contributed to the widespread push for medical interventions, fast-tracking youth into irreversible treatments despite a lack of clear biological justification.This episode presents fresh debates and critical insights into the ethical dilemmas surrounding pediatric gender transition and the protocols involved.For links and resources relevant to this episode, access the full show notes at  https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/episode-203 Buy Our Book – When Kids Say They’re Trans: A Guide for Thoughtful Parents at https://whenkidssaytheyretrans.com/   Join Our Listener Community to Access Exclusive Content at https://www.widerlenspod.com/   Support the Show at https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/support-the-show   Join the conversation on YouTube at www.youtube.com/@widerlenspod  For more information about Sasha’s & Stella’s parent coaching membership groups, visit:Sasha Ayad: https://sashaayad.com/parenting-coaching   Stella O’Malley: http://www.stellaomalley.com/parent-coaching  To learn more about our sponsors, visit:Therapy First at https://www.therapyfirst.org/  Genspect at https://genspect.org/  This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe   This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

As societal perceptions of gender identity continue to evolve, the conversation around gender dysphoria has grown increasingly complex and polarized, particularly in recent years. This has sparked critical questions about the underlying causes of gender identity confusion, the role of medical interventions, and the broader cultural implications. Exploring these topics requires a careful balance of scientific inquiry, ethical considerations, and an openness to the diverse experiences of those affected.As public discourse has become more contentious, the space for nuanced discussions about the complexities of transgender identities has narrowed. This polarization often reduces the conversation to simplistic binaries of affirmation versus denial, leaving little room to explore the diverse experiences and motivations that shape individuals’ journeys.The concept of being "trans" has undergone a significant transformation. Today, the term encompasses a wider array of experiences than those represented in the “T” category of the LGBT culture of yesteryear. Nonbinary identities, the rainbow alphabet, and the many expressions of gender that do not involve dysphoria are being amplified by the influence of the algorithm, potentially influencing individuals to adopt identities that may not reflect deeper, intrinsic realities.The increase in minors identifying as transgender has brought these dynamics into sharper focus. A significant rise in the number of young people, particularly adolescent girls, identifying as trans has prompted questions about the underlying causes. Trauma, social pressures, and identity exploration have all been suggested as factors contributing to the “trans” trend. And while the broadened definition of “trans” has fostered a growing societal acceptance of diverse gender expressions, some argue that this fluidity has diluted the term itself, making it harder to discern the underlying motivations or needs of those who identify as transgender.In this bonus episode for premium subscribers, Jessi critiques the political and social trends influencing youth, particularly the notion that being transgender is seen as "cool" or "edgy." She emphasizes the irreversible consequences of transitioning, particularly for those under 25, whom she believes lack the maturity to make such significant decisions. She also highlights how societal stereotypes about gender roles impact both men and women. She points out that rigid expectations, such as "big boys don't cry," contribute to gender identity struggles and may lead some young men to identify as transgender as a way to escape these pressures.Watch our full length episode with Jessi: https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/episode-202For instructions on setting up a private feed to listen to our premium content in your favorite podcast app, visit https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/how-to-listen-to-our-full-premium. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Sasha and Stella welcome Jessi, a 69-year-old detransitioned butch lesbian, who shares her extraordinary life story. Jessi’s journey challenges misconceptions about detransitioners, confronting the common assumption that they are predominantly young people who transitioned in adolescence. Instead, her experiences shine a light on older individuals who made these life-altering decisions in vastly different cultural and social contexts. Her life as a gay rights advocate, shaped by threats and hardships, reveals the complexities behind her decision to transition during a time when living openly as a gender non-conforming lesbian carried significant risks.This episode offers a compelling exploration of the varied paths of detransitioners, and provides a thoughtful reflection on the broader social and psychological complexities of navigating life outside traditional gender norms.For links and resources relevant to this episode, access the full show notes at https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/episode-202.Buy Our Book – When Kids Say They’re Trans: A Guide for Thoughtful Parents at https://whenkidssaytheyretrans.com/   Join Our Listener Community to Access Exclusive Content at https://www.widerlenspod.com/   Support the Show at https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/support-the-show   Join the conversation on YouTube at www.youtube.com/@widerlenspod  For more information about Sasha’s & Stella’s parent coaching membership groups, visit:Sasha Ayad: https://sashaayad.com/parenting-coaching   Stella O’Malley: http://www.stellaomalley.com/parent-coaching  To learn more about our sponsors, visit:Therapy First at https://www.therapyfirst.org/  Genspect at https://genspect.org/  This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe   This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

In this episode, former Democratic State Representative Shawn Thierry reflects on her role in advocating for Texas Senate Bill 14 (TX SB14), which raised the minimum age for gender transition procedures to 18. Despite sharing concerns about the medicalization of minors with her fellow Democratic colleagues, Shawn was warned that her seat would be at stake for going on the record with her position and voting in favor of the bill. Her steadfast commitment to integrity led her to take a stand, even though it ultimately cost her re-election. Shawn discusses the two-year research process that shaped her decision, the personal risks she faced, and the pressures she encountered from within her own party. Throughout the conversation, she highlights the importance of principled leadership, unwavering dedication to doing what is right, and standing firm in the face of political and social pressures.For links and resources relevant to this episode, access the full show notes at https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/episode-201 Buy Our Book – When Kids Say They’re Trans: A Guide for Thoughtful Parents at https://whenkidssaytheyretrans.com/   Join Our Listener Community to Access Exclusive Content at https://www.widerlenspod.com/   Support the Show at https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/support-the-show   Join the conversation on YouTube at www.youtube.com/@widerlenspod  For more information about Sasha’s & Stella’s parent coaching membership groups, visit:Sasha Ayad: https://sashaayad.com/parenting-coaching   Stella O’Malley: http://www.stellaomalley.com/parent-coaching  To learn more about our sponsors, visit:Therapy First at https://www.therapyfirst.org/  Genspect at https://genspect.org/  This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe   This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

The emotional and mental toll of navigating a child’s struggles with gender dysphoria can be profound. Parents often confront feelings of helplessness, confusion, and even grief as they face the rapid progression of medical interventions or societal pressures that seem at odds with their instincts or values. This journey is undeniably challenging, but it’s crucial for parents to prioritize their own emotional well-being in order to provide the steady, loving support their children need.Self-care is not a selfish act; it is a necessary foundation for maintaining the strength and clarity required to guide and advocate for a child in such a complex, personal struggle. Amid overwhelming challenges, it’s easy to feel isolated. However, it’s important to remember that no parent is alone. Building a network of like-minded individuals, seeking professional support, and tapping into community resources offers not only practical advice but also emotional sustenance, providing the reassurance and solidarity needed to persevere. In this bonus episode for premium subscribers, Lydia emphasizes the need for a balance of compassion and boundaries, encouraging parents to listen attentively to their child's experiences and feelings while maintaining a clear sense of their role as guides and advocates. She highlights the importance of hope and connection and underscores the value of fostering open communication within the family.Watch our full length episode with Lydia: https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/episode-200For instructions on setting up a private feed to listen to our premium content in your favorite podcast app, visit https://www.widerlenspod.com/p/how-to-listen-to-our-full-premium. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com