#198: App Growth Strategy: the Deezer’s case with Sherina Khalidi, VP Performance Marketing at Deezer

On one of the recent episodes of this podcast, we talked about the app growth, claiming that growth is likely the notion that has been discussed by app marketers the most. It’s like - wake up any app marketer in the middle of the night and ask her “what is your name?”, she would tell you “Growth”. And yet - sustainable growth is what exists app marketers and developers even more. I don’t think that there is anybody who still doesn’t know that an app project is a marathon and to run it you need a sustainable strategy, you need a sustainable growth strategy. So in this anniversary episode #200, we will be talking with Mike about “The Sustainable Growth Handbook” recently developed by his company ConsultMyApp. Today’s Topics Include: Mike's background What services ConsultMyApp provides and its position on the market What is sustainable app growth Sustainable app growth key principles How to balance user acquisition and user retention Insights and examples of how data-driven decisions lead to sustainable app growth Common pitfalls and mistakes that hinder app growth Trends and innovations that will impact sustainable app growth What Mike would like to change about digital marketing the most Android or iOS? Leaving his smartphone at home, what features would Mike miss most? What features he would like to see added to his smartphone? Links and Resources: Mike Rhodes on LinkedIn The Sustainable Growth Handbook ConsultMyApp Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Mike Rhodes: "The biggest challenge I think our clients always see is siloed behavior where acquisition teams don't talk to paid, but acquisition teams don't talk to CRM and retention teams and and then the data doesn't talk together even if the teams do, they're not connecting the dots because they don't have a CDP or a warehouse, and they haven't got a reporting stat that sits on top. And that is the biggest single thing." "I think the biggest issue is not with developers, but actually with the product marketers. And that comes when the wrong metrics are really being focused on. So things like installs, category ranking, the keyword ranking, these things are vanity metrics. You know, they don't really matter. Like how many a month you have. It doesn't matter to a large intent. What does matter is the users I got, how are they converting? How are they converting into meaningful users? It might be watching ads. It might be whatever your core metric is. But ultimately it's got to be understand that is the metric." Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012 A message from App Promotion Summit Tickets are available on all of our 2024 summits https://apppromotionsummit.com/   NYC – 27 Jun 2024 San Francisco – 26 Sep 2024 Berlin – 5 Dec 2024

I’m sure you’ve heard this adage “Data is the new blood of the economy”. When you operate on a big market with lots of competitors you better make sure you make decisions about your business based on hard data. App marketing is one of the brightest examples where this adage and it is so close to home. When the number of users of your product is in thousands, tens of thousands or millions informing your app marketing decisions with reliable data isn’t a question of should or shouldn’t but must. In this episode, Summer will help us to learn about leveraging mobile ad data, competitive analysis tools, as well as share her advice for marketers who are just getting started in the app marketing space. Today’s Topics Include: Summer's background What is SocialPeta Leveraging app performance and ad creatives data effectively Staying competitive in a crowded app marketplace Upcoming features in the SocialPeta pipeline to benefit app marketers What Summer would like to change about digital marketing the most Android or iOS? Leaving her smartphone at home, what features would Summer miss most? What features she would like to see added to her smartphone? Links and Resources: Summer Liu on LinkedIn SocialPeta Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Sumer Liu: " If we talk about mobile ad intelligence tools, I think I can boast that there is no better platform that can be as friendly as SocialPeta. We dived in the mobile advertising business for over 8 years. We grew together with those top global publishers. We evolve our product from time to time. In the new era of AI technology, SocialPeta will firmly develop towards this direction on aspects like Ai recognition and analysis. We will draw the digital market picture in a much more intelligent way." Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012 A message from App Promotion Summit Tickets are available on all of our 2024 summits https://apppromotionsummit.com/   NYC – 27 Jun 2024 San Francisco – 26 Sep 2024 Berlin – 5 Dec 2024

Ok, a bit of trivia to begin with - what is the most common and most used word app marketers and app owners use in a conversation about their apps in pretty much any country you can think of? Well, if they have a conversation in English that would be growth. It’s that notion that everybody is agree is extremely important for a mobile app project to succeed. There is a set of app growth marketing techniques we all have heard about, tried ourselves and hopefully benefit from using. But because mobile apps’ audiences are different, we know that these techniques aren’t expected to be equally efficient for everybody and so it is always wise to listen to other app marketers’ experiences to learn something new. In this episode, Sherina will share her experience with the Deezer app’s growth strategy. Today’s Topics Include: Sherina's background The Deezer app and what people use it Acquisition strategies that worked for Deezer Data and analytics to inform the app's growth Tactics to retain the app's users Partnerships and collaborations to foster the app's growth Emerging trends and tech to impact app growth strategies in the future What Sherina would like to change about digital marketing the most Android or iOS? Leaving her smartphone at home, what features would Sherina miss most? What features she would like to see added to her smartphone? Links and Resources: Sherina Khalidi on LinkedIn Deezer app Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Sherina Khalidi: "On the measurement front, at Deezer we use the triptic Attribution / MMM / Incrementality, and I would love to use AI to get a synthetic view of these 3 components to help me predict the outcome of future invest." " As the mobile industry is maturing, I feel the good old recipe of UA and ASO will work less & less, and it will be more about building a strong brand that is able to connect with their users, in trust and authenticity. I think there's really something here for us to reinvent." Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012 A message from App Promotion Summit Tickets are available on all of our 2024 summits https://apppromotionsummit.com/   NYC – 27 Jun 2024 San Francisco – 26 Sep 2024 Berlin – 5 Dec 2024

There is a decent number of ways to market your mobile app on app stores. I think by now we all know them so well - App Store Optimization to drive native traffic, paid user acquisition via Apple Search Ads or Google Ads, acquiring users via paid ad platforms from Meta, TikTok, Alphabet and some more. But at some point - for savvy app marketers this point comes pretty early in their app marketing journey -  you realize that it is not the end of the story. As much as it makes sense to connect your app via built-in search on app stores or use paid ad platforms, there are more ways to build your app’s user base when you think out of the box, specifically out of the app store :-) In this episode, we’re going to cover with Jakub a few app marketing techniques to grow your app outside of the app stores. Today’s Topics Include: Jokub's background What is HER app and its competition Ways to market an app outside of app stores Affiliate marketing or referrals as an app marketing channel Using Generative AI for content marketing: pros and cons How Viral marketing works for mobile apps Most overhyped app marketing channel Takeaways What Jokub's would like to change about app marketing the most Android or iOS? Leaving his smartphone at home, what features would Jokub miss most? What features he would like to see added to his smartphone? Links and Resources: Jokub Chour on LinkedIn HER app website Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Jokub Chour: "Well, I'll stick with the rule that says that if everyone else is doing it, it's not worth doing it.  I've seen a lot of outcomes from generative AI and I wasn't impressed in general for our niche. I mean like it's great to write an email, or, I don't know, a PR release, but it's it hasn't been great in the niches like ours." "I wouldn't say channel, but definitely like Multimedia Modeling or Incrementality measurement are something that are like talked about a lot but I don't think that we are at a point to fully utilize that as I've seen some tools that are going this way. It's like telling a fairy tale. At this point  you can have it generating numbers, but for me, it is hard to trust it fully." Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012 A message from App Promotion Summit Tickets are available on all of our 2024 summits https://apppromotionsummit.com/   NYC – 27 Jun 2024 San Francisco – 26 Sep 2024 Berlin – 5 Dec 2024

Let’s state the obvious - people love playing games, especially on their smartphones, and they do love brands. Now, if you ask a mobile marketer what does it imply she would tell you that it’s a great opportunity on one side to let brands reach more potential customers and on the other - for mobile game developers to generate revenue. So far so good, right? But what if I tell you that there is a report that actually reveals specifically what brand categories people prefer who play games in various types of games such as Puzzle, Card, Word, and Action? Sounds even better, right? Well, today Ravi will be talking about Digital Turbine’s BRAG INDEX IV report that brings up precisely this information. Today’s Topics Include: Ravi's background What is Digital Turbine today and its mission The BRAG Index report and its methodology The biggest highlights from the report The mobile games landscape today The report insights for Word / Word Search game category The report insights for Puzzle game category The report insights for Card game category The report insights for Action game category Android or iOS? Leaving his smartphone at home, what features would Ravi miss most? What features he would like to see added to his smartphone? Links and Resources: Ravi Pimplaskar on LinkedIn Digital Turbine company BRAG Index IV report  Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Ravi Pimplaskar: "What we did is we sort of indexed the people who play Word games against certain brands. And we really found that they had an affinity for fitness and travel. Some of their top brands included, you know, Red bull, Delta Airlines, Panera Bread. But one of the things, Word  gamers, which isn't surprising, are avid readers." "Puzzle gamers - what we really found about their interest is they gravitate towards beauty and adventure. Their favorite brand is  beauty products like Aveeno. They're into Travelocity, Lululemon's brands. One of the things that we did find about puzzle gamers - they really into traveling. So, you know, that Sudoku player sitting next to you on flight he may be more typical than you think." Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012 A message from App Promotion Summit Tickets are available on all of our 2024 summits https://apppromotionsummit.com/ NYC – 27 Jun 2024 San Francisco – 26 Sep 2024 Berlin – 5 Dec 2024

One of the topics, that has been permeating this podcast over the years, is mobile app growth. And in general - year after year, conference after conference, countless webinars, white papers, and podcasts have been dedicated to this topic. And it’s all for a good reason - if your app’s user base doesn’t grow you can not build a sustainable app business and because the app landscape has been changing you always needs to be in the know of what works now and what doesn’t. And this is exactly what we’re going to cover on this episode with Gilad. Today’s Topics Include: Gilad's background What is Moburst App marketing recent evolution App growth marketing essential strategies Mobile app growth common challenges Influence of tech on app marketing Trends that will dominate mobile app marketing Advice to young app marketers What would Gilad like to change about app marketing Android or iOS? Leaving his smartphone at home, what features would Gilad miss most? What features he would like to see added to his smartphone? Links and Resources: Gilad Bechar on LinkedIn Moburst Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Gilad Bechar: "I think that from the get-go apps optimization was always pretty big on app growth. And when you're thinking about app optimization, you think about how users might find the app. The app optimization, I think it became much more sophisticated in the past few years, where you have the ability to impact users with so many different gateways to the app. So it's no longer five screenshots you're telling the story and that's it, like you used to have.  Now you have 35 different gateways in the App Store on the, on iOS and 50 different gateways on custom product pages on Android." " I think that AI  is a massive improvement and advancement. And that's something that will impact the world for now and onwards. But I think that the ability to be data-driven and seeing what works and what doesn't work, which means at the end of the day, there are users. You're trying to bridge your message to the user and getting them to a very positive experience about whatever you're trying to sell.   I think that being data-driven and understanding which customers to approach with which type of messaging that will resonate with them and will get them to one step closer to the action that you want them to take. That's the key element that is with all of the tech technology advancements and with all of the new tools that are available and all of the better programs of TikTok and Meta and Google." Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012 A message from App Promotion Summit Tickets are available on all of our 2024 summits https://apppromotionsummit.com/ NYC – 27 Jun 2024 San Francisco – 26 Sep 2024 Berlin – 5 Dec 2024

Ok, a bit of a mental gymnastics - imaging you’re holding a smartphone in your hand and you’ve just purchased it. You’ve unpacked it, turned on and now browsing through its default apps and checking out its features. You’re consciously taking mental notes on features that tick off boxes for you - that is the rational part. Right, but don’t you notice that holding that phone in your hand makes you feel good? We, human beings, are driven by emotions, even on occasions when you feel like you are strictly rational, your decisions are still influenced by your emotions. Now, this episode stands out the rest, because with the exception of the episode with Joe Schaeppi, CEO of Solsten, where we talked about the psychology of app user acquisition, we haven’t touched emotions in app marketing. But we’re going to change it now today by having Naksha and talking about driving app engagement with empathy. Today’s Topics Include: Naksha''s background What is UserTesting What is empathy and how it is different from sympathy Connecting with brands - how it works and why it's important How to assess how well or bad your app connects with its users Customer Experience First approach Takeaways Android or iOS? Leaving her smartphone at home, what features would Naksha miss most? What features she would like to see added to her smartphone? Links and Resources: Naksha Ruiz (Ghirardelli) on LinkedIn UserTesting Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Naksha Ruiz: "Yeah, I think that's a very, very good point, especially now in the digital age that we were talking about how technology brings brands more closely. I guess that would be the best way to say it. I think,  at this point, consumers have endless options and it's very important to create genuine connection, to build a difference, to be a differentiator from all of the brand offerings. So ultimately, when we think about brands, brands sell, experience or sell, sell, sell you those feelings that then you can empathize with." "I think from a business perspective, sympathy is what you will have the whole time. You're trying to keep it in mind, and the empathy will be something that you will connect to every now and then." Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012 A message from App Promotion Summit Tickets are available on all of our 2024 summits https://apppromotionsummit.com/ NYC – 27 Jun 2024 San Francisco – 26 Sep 2024 Berlin – 5 Dec 2024

Today, of all business models the subscription model is the one that rules the world of mobile apps. Long gone the times when you hear the word subscription in a conversation about mobile apps you could only think of apps for content streaming or online media. Today subscription apps are everywhere. On this episode, Léa will share with you best practices for subscription apps monetization. She will cover things like product-market fit, language-market fit, framing the prices, and more. Today’s Topics Include: Léa's background Monetization benefits for subscription apps Product-market fit: what it is an how to achieve it Language-market fit Framing the prices Building trust How to prevent users churn for subscription apps Takeaways Android or iOS? Leaving her smartphone at home, what features would Léa miss most? What features she would like to see added to her smartphone? Links and Resources: Léa Samrani on LinkedIn Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Léa Samrani: "So, you know, it's not enough to have an amazing idea and an amazing product. You also need enough people that think this is a great idea and a great product. So you need enough of the market as well for it to work. So those are the three things that I think are very much like minimal at least that you really need to start getting some level of product market fit and start building traction. And then there's how you measure that, which is some decent activation and engagement metric, you know, around activation and maybe retention. And if your product have some sort of habituation into it, you can also look at things like stickiness." "In a way before subscription app, one of the best way to get new customer was a referral. It was the word of mouth. You trust a lot more when a brand or a product, when it's endorsed by someone you trust. The exact same principle applied to subscription app." Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012 A message from App Promotion Summit Tickets are available on all of our 2024 summits https://apppromotionsummit.com/ London – 25 Apr 2024 NYC – 27 Jun 2024 San Francisco – 26 Sep 2024 Berlin – 5 Dec 2024

We passed the Equinox a couple of weeks ago - the spring is here and, in kind of celebrating spirit, I want us to take a look back at 2023, a bird-view on the app industry via the one and only State of Mobile report from Data.ai. The app industry is on scale of millions of apps used by billions of people, apps permeate the entire world economy. By now, you just can’t find an industry that hasn’t been influenced by mobile. Competition is high, new technologies emerge and from time to time we all need to take a step back and take a holistic view on the industry to check out on the trends and understand how well we fit into this picture. Today’s Topics Include: Lexi Sydow's background Big data points from the State of Mobile 2024 report How much time people spent in mobile apps in 2023 How much money people spent in mobile apps in 2023 Apps vs. games - where do people spend more time? Mobile advertising growth year over year AI & Mobile - the increasing popularity of ChatGPT4 The influence of Generative AI on top apps growth Top Apps & Games of 2023 Links and Resources: Lexi Sydow on LinkedIn The State of Mobile 2024 report Data.ai SensorTower Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Lexi Sydow: "We saw 257 billion app downloads in 2023 alone, which is a roughly flat year on year. And that's sort of what we'd expect to see given more maturity in the market. These are completely net new installs. And it equates to about almost  half a million downloads every minute is what that equates to you globally" "$171 billion being spent across iOS, Google Play and third party Android stores in China. So the top five markets are China at $52 billion being spent alone. That actually is down 10% year on year. Number two is the U S, up $45 billion, and that's up 6%. Japan at 18 billion is our number three kind of market on mobile, up a modest 1%. " "And in 2023, we saw $64 billion annually being spent in the non game sector, and that has grown roughly 6.5 X from 2016, where it was only $10.3 billion. So just a huge growth in like the last seven or eight years there. "  Host Business Of Apps – connecting the app industry since 2012 A message from App Promotion Summit Tickets are available on all of our 2024 summits https://apppromotionsummit.com/ London – 25 Apr 2024 NYC – 27 Jun 2024 San Francisco – 26 Sep 2024 Berlin – 5 Dec 2024

It’s 2024 and we are all suppose to talk about Generative AI 24/7 but remember what was at the center of attention for so many app marketers before the ChatGPT arrival? Right - TikTok and marketing your apps on TikTok. Well, the platform, despite a number of looming threats for it to be banned, most notably in the US, is there and thriving. Today, I have Inna to share her best practices for doing app marketing on TikTok. Sponsor This episode is sponsored by Perform[cb], leading outcome-based marketing company. Perform[kb] targets marketers' ideal audience and promotes brands with AI-powered, high-value placements on a pay for performance model. Get in touch with their user acquisition team today! Today’s Topics Include: Inna's background What is Hily and how it is different from other dating apps Hily's framework to work with TikTok as an app marketing channel Work with Creators on TikTok to run influencer marketing campaigns and TikTok Ads Targeting on TikTok Ads Hily's approach to ad creatives for app marketing on TikTok Android or iOS? Leaving her smartphone at home, what features would Inna miss most? What features she would like to see added to her smartphone? Links and Resources: Inna Sumovska on LinkedIn Hily website Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Inna Sumovska: "So I would say, first of all, before I start to answer the question, you need to understand that there is still a difference between TikTok and other social media. Because Tiktok is not like a regular social media. You don't go to TikTok to check TikTok. You go to TikTok to have fun, to entertain, to educate yourself. So that's why TikTok, this is like the world leading entertainment platform for short videos. And this is all about the community. So that's why to be the part of this community is to collaborate with those guys, with the Creators." "From my point of view, there is still a difference when it comes to influencers and creators, because influencers they like influence and creators they create. So and this is actually a difference because when we began working with creators on TikTok, we wanted to adjust our experience of working with influencers on Instagram, and we were focusing on, for example, on those guys who have like some number of followers or something like this. But then we understood that TikTok it's like it's not really matter how many followers you have, since your content is entertaining. So that's why we were thinking maybe, like, the number of followers is not really important. Maybe we need to focus on those guys who can create something that our audience will pay their attention to." Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012 A message from App Promotion Summit Tickets are available on all of our 2024 summits https://apppromotionsummit.com/ London – 25 Apr 2024 NYC – 27 Jun 2024 San Francisco – 26 Sep 2024 Berlin – 5 Dec 2024