Applying Behavioral Science to Ourselves and Our Animals with Tim Sullivan [Episode 288]

In this episode of the Animal Training Academy Podcast, Ryan Cartlidge is joined by Tim Sullivan — a pioneer in applied animal behavior analysis who recently transitioned into retirement after a 46-year tenure at the Brookfield Zoo in Chicago, including over four decades as the Curator of Behavioral Husbandry. Bringing a lifetime of zoological experience to the animal training profession, Tim challenges us to look in the mirror, embrace challenges as opportunities for growth, and recognize how our internal mindset directly dictates our external success. Together, Ryan and Tim explore the power of self-fulfilling prophecies, self-awareness, and the vital importance of dropping our egos to better serve our animal learners. Tim shares lessons from his career—ranging from developing protected-contact elephant training programs and pioneering voluntary blood draws in marine mammals to mentoring staff and co-founding the Animal Behavior Management Alliance (ABMA). The conversation delves into how mindset shapes our default reactions, why challenging situations are growth opportunities, and how we can apply the very same behavioral principles we use with animals to improve our own health, relationships, and self-awareness. The conversation also highlights the human side of training, addressing common pitfalls like compassion fatigue, the fear of failure, and the danger of operating on "default settings" without realizing it. Tim offers practical reflections on how self-compassion, small approximations, and a willingness to look at ourselves first can transform us into better teachers, trainers, and partners for our animals. Throughout this episode, we discuss: ✅ How self-fulfilling prophecies and our internal mindset influence our success in training and life ✅ Tim Sullivan's remarkable 46-year legacy and pioneering work at Brookfield Zoo ✅ Why every challenge in training is an opportunity to learn, problem-solve, and build resilience ✅ The vital importance of looking in the mirror and setting ego aside for the benefit of the animal ✅ How to apply the science of applied behavior analysis (ABA) and operant conditioning to ourselves ✅ The power of small approximations and shifting our default reactions when faced with adversity ✅ Building resilience in both human and non-human learners by transforming our perception of novelty and challenge Whether you're a professional animal trainer, a zoo keeper, or simply looking for ways to master your mindset and improve your training skills, this episode offers a roadmap for creating a career and life built on self-awareness, continuous growth, and deep empathy.

In this engaging conversation, Ryan Cartlidge is joined by Tabitha Kucera — a registered veterinary technician, veterinary technician specialist in behavior, Karen Pryor Academy certified training partner, certified cat behavior consultant, and one of only around 30 veterinary technician specialists in behavior worldwide. Tabitha shares her inspiring journey from volunteering with rescue organizations as a teenager to building a career dedicated to helping people better understand the companion animals they share their lives with. Together, Ryan and Kucera explore the vital importance of effective, compassionate, and evidence-based communication between behavior professionals, veterinary teams, and pet caregivers. Tabitha discusses her passion for improving animal welfare through education, low-stress handling, and fear-free care for both dogs and cats. They also delve into Tabitha's new mentorship program, "Better Together: Advocating for Dogs and Cats at the Vet," which officially opened for early access on July 21st to help behavior consultants, trainers, groomers, and veterinary professionals bridge communication gaps and collaborate more successfully as part of a unified care team. The conversation highlights common emotional challenges in the profession, such as navigating professional disagreements, managing ego, overcoming imposter syndrome, and moving away from harmful "us versus them" mentalities. Tabitha shares practical reflections on how treating caregivers and allied professionals with empathy and framing observations into actionable, supportive insights can transform animal care outcomes. Throughout this episode, we discuss: ✅ Tabitha's background as a registered veterinary technician and specialist in behavior ✅ The inspiration behind Tabitha's new mentorship program, "Better Together: Advocating for Dogs and Cats at the Vet" ✅ How to bridge communication gaps between trainers, behavior consultants, groomers, and veterinary teams ✅ Why a collaborative, multi-disciplinary care team approach is essential for animal welfare ✅ Overcoming professional friction, ego, and the harmful "us versus them" mindset in the animal care industry ✅ Navigating compassion fatigue, imposter syndrome, and the emotional weight of behavior work ✅ Practical strategies for turning clinical observations into clear, supportive, and actionable guidance for caregivers Whether you are a trainer, veterinary professional, groomer, or behavior consultant looking to enhance your collaboration skills and build stronger care networks, this episode offers an empowering roadmap for putting the animal's best interest first through teamwork and empathy. Links Small Paws Website: https://small-paws.ca Better Together Mentorship: https://small-paws.thinkific.com/products/courses/kucerabettertogether Tabitha's Website: http://chirrupsachatter.com  Chirrups and Chatter Socials: @chirrupsandchatter (Facebook, Instagram, YouTube) Small Paws Socials: @smallpawsedu (Facebook, Instagram)

In this episode of the Animal Training Academy podcast, host Ryan Cartlidge is joined by special guests Irith Bloom and Dr. Kristina Spaulding to discuss their mentorship and certification program, Carefree Companion. Together, Ryan, Irith, and Dr. Spaulding explore how the program bridges the gap between technical training plans and a human owner's ability to successfully implement them. Dr. Spaulding brings her expertise as a scientist and behaviorist with a PhD in biopsychology, specializing in the neurobiology of stress, while Irith brings over 40 years of animal training experience and a deep focus on agency and the science of learning. The guests share the origins of their professional partnership, which blossomed from working together on education committees and through shared interests in science, stress, and behavioral choice. The conversation dives deep into the concept of dialectics—embracing "andness" instead of an "either/or" mentality—and how both contradictory emotions and complex problem-solving are a normal part of the human experience when living with companion animals. They also unpack the power of motivational interviewing, explaining how trainers can move away from imposing rigid expectations and instead use open-ended questions and curiosity to understand human resistance, build better collaboration, and help clients find their own path forward. Finally, they break down the structure of the 28-week Carefree Companion program, highlighting its blend of synchronous live calls, structured asynchronous discussion forums, and individualized monthly mentorship. Throughout this episode, we discuss: ✅ The origin of the partnership between Irith Bloom and Dr. Kristina Spaulding  ✅ What dialectics are and why embracing "andness" helps both pet owners and trainers navigate conflicting feelings ✅ How the Carefree Companion program evolved to focus heavily on coaching skills and human pedagogy ✅ The application of scaffolding in human learning—providing temporary support and gradually pulling back to foster client independence ✅ How motivational interviewing helps professionals uncover client motivations and navigate resistance without judgment ✅ The 28-week structure of the Carefree Companion certification, featuring live group discussions, forums, and one-on-one mentorship ✅ Creating a safe, collaborative space where respectful disagreement and diverse viewpoints lead to transformative learning Whether you are an experienced trainer or a behavior consultant looking to deepen your coaching toolkit, this episode offers a refreshing and practical roadmap for bridging the gap between animal behavior science and effective human collaboration. Links Website: https://carefreecompanion.com/ Mailing List: https://tinyurl.com/CarefreeCompanionMailingList Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CarefreeCompanion/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/carefreecompanion/

In this episode of the Animal Training Academy podcast, host Ryan Cartlidge is joined by special guest Irith Bloom — a certified professional dog trainer, behaviour consultant, and co-founder of Carefree Companion. Together, Ryan and Irith explore the profound role that language, word choice, and communication play in animal training and human coaching. Irith shares her fascinating behavioral odyssey, starting from her childhood obsession with animals and training large Rottweilers using verbal cues and minimal force, to discovering positive reinforcement in the early 2000s. Drawing on her background as a polyglot who speaks multiple languages fluently, Irith discusses how experiencing life as a linguistic and cultural outsider has shaped her deep empathy and intentionality around communication. The conversation dives into the nuances of how trainers talk to human clients, examining why shifting phrasing—such as describing a dog as exhibiting "fearful behavior" rather than labeling the animal as "fearful"—can completely change a client's mindset, prevent limiting assumptions, and open the door to positive change. Irith and Ryan also discuss the importance of approaching human clients with the same curiosity, grace, and understanding that trainers naturally offer to non-human animals. They unpack the psychological biases that lead us to view human behavior as strictly intentional while giving animals more leeway, and how cultivating self-awareness and practice helps professionals become more effective coaches. The episode closes with a look ahead at what Irith hopes to see in the industry over the next five to 10 years: a future where routinely looking for both assent and consent from non-human animals becomes completely normal. Throughout this episode, we discuss: ✅ Irith's behavioral odyssey from childhood dog training to becoming a multi-certified professional behavior consultant ✅ How speaking multiple languages influences Irith's perspective on communication across species ✅ The strategic power of language and why avoiding rigid labels like "fearful" helps keep client minds open ✅ Re-examining the use of force and language when describing traditional training methods ✅ Why trainers should approach human clients with the same curiosity and grace extended to animals ✅ The role of continuous practice, self-awareness, and embracing mistakes in professional growth ✅ Irith's 5-to-10-year industry vision: making the routine seeking of assent and consent second nature Whether you are a professional trainer, behaviour consultant, or passionate pet owner, this conversation offers empowering insights into how better communication with both humans and animals can create a more harmonious, choice-rich world.

In this deeply informative conversation, Ryan Cartlidge is joined by Dot Baisly—the Executive Director for the International Association of Animal Behaviour Consultants (IAABC). With an extensive background in shelter behavior, veterinary medicine, and private consulting, Dot brings a wealth of experience to the table, having previously led behavior programs at major organizations like the North East Animal Shelter and the Animal Rescue League of Boston. Dot holds a Master's Degree in Animal Behaviour from Tufts University and is a Certified Dog Behaviour Consultant, Certified Cat Behaviour Consultant, and Certified Shelter Behaviour Specialist. Together, Ryan and Dot dive into the topic of the Joint Standards of Practice (JSOP), a collaborative initiative aimed at creating a standardized, ethical framework for behavior professionals in an industry that remains largely unregulated. Dot provides much-needed clarity on the structure of the JSOP coalition—explaining the roles of the Steering Committee versus the signatory organizations—and details the massive effort involved in updating the document. She shares the story of how the JSOP recently evolved from a brief, Lima-based guideline into a comprehensive document that now incorporates the five domains of animal welfare and explicitly addresses procedure selection. The conversation highlights why these standards are essential for the future of the industry, moving beyond simple "effectiveness" to ensure that the intervention itself supports the mental and physical well-being of the animal. They discuss the importance of moving toward a recognized profession where practitioners are held accountable, and how collaboration—rather than competition—among certifying and educational bodies is the key to creating a unified, ethical voice. Ryan also announces that the Animal Training Academy has officially become a signatory of the JSOP, reflecting a shared mission to empower professionals with high standards of care. Throughout this episode, we discuss: ✅ The role of the IAABC as a global trade organization and independent certifying body ✅ Defining the Joint Standards of Practice (JSOP) and why it serves as the minimum standard of care ✅ The structure of the JSOP coalition, including the Steering Committee and signatory organizations ✅ The transition from a Lima-based framework to a more comprehensive, science-backed standard ✅ Why self-regulation is a vital step toward professional legitimacy and ethical behavior change ✅ The difference between "assent" and "consent" in supporting learner well-being ✅ How professional standards protect both the animal and the practitioner from burnout ✅ The importance of industry-wide collaboration in raising the bar for animal welfare Whether you are a seasoned consultant or a professional just starting your career, this episode provides a clear roadmap for understanding the ethical foundations of our industry and why participating in standardized, collaborative frameworks is a "no-brainer" for those committed to the highest level of animal care. JSOP Signatories 1) Steering committee APDT IAABC IAABC Foundation Karen Pryor Academy (KPA) 2) Existing signatories Victoria Stilwell Inc. (VSI) Assistance Dogs International (ADI) Grisha Stewart Academy Science Matters Academy Understand Horses 3) Newest signatories Peaceable Paws Malena DeMartini Atlas Assistance Dogs Carefree Companion Academy of Pet Careers  Animal Training Academy Canine Behavior College Good Dog Academy Phenix Advocacy Center for R+ Canine Professionals Links JSOP: https://iaabc.org/standards-of-practice Email [email protected] 

In this insightful and thought-provoking conversation, Ryan Cartlidge is joined by Kim Palermo—a Certified Control Unleashed Instructor (CCUI) and Animal Centred Education (ACE) Practitioner with over 20 years of professional experience in the dog training industry. A lifelong animal enthusiast who owns Blue Dog training and walking business near Boston, Kim brings a blend of academic rigor, from her degree in zoology, and compassionate curiosity to her work with dogs and other species. Together, Ryan and Kim explore the power of observation and the critical importance of creating "safe spaces" for learners to process information. Kim shares her personal journey from a "crossover trainer" to a passionate advocate for positive reinforcement, emphasizing how her own experiences with chronic pain and ADHD have shaped her empathetic, trauma-informed approach to training. They discuss how professional mentors—including the late Gail Fisher, Julie Daniels, and Sarah Fisher—have left an indelible mark on her career and the industry at large. A major focus of the discussion is the innovative concept Kim calls "opt-out stations." By integrating ACE Free Work and Control Unleashed principles, Kim explains how giving dogs the freedom to choose when to engage and when to take a break can drastically reduce frustration and increase clarity in training. She breaks down the science of assent versus consent and the role of "degrees of freedom" in allowing animals to participate in their own learning process without the pressure of perceived coercion. Whether she is working with high-level sports dogs or rescue dogs with complex histories, Kim demonstrates how these simple environmental adjustments can transform a struggling learner into an enthusiastic, confident partner. Throughout this episode, we discuss: ✅ Kim's journey from zookeeping and dog walking to clinical behavior and dog sports ✅ Why hands-on experience and observation are the most valuable tools for new trainers ✅ The core principles of ACE Free Work and how it physically and emotionally supports dogs ✅ How to bridge the gap between "artistry" and scalable training methodologies ✅ The fascinating concept of "opt-out stations" and how they provide clarity and choice ✅ Understanding the difference between consent and assent in animal training ✅ How to manage arousal and frustration by allowing learners to process the environment ✅ The value of finding mentors who encourage creativity and brave exploration Whether you are a seasoned professional, a beginner looking for guidance on how to start, or someone interested in the intersection of neuroscience and animal behavior, this episode offers a practical roadmap for creating training sessions built on kindness, agency, and connection. Links https://kimpalermo.com/  https://www.bluedogpetcare.com/  https://www.instagram.com/kimanddogs/   

In this deeply personal conversation, Ryan Cartlidge is joined by Danielle Beck — a UK-based clinical animal behaviorist, mentor, and founder of Control The Meerkat. With a rich background spanning over 20 years in zoology and companion animal behavior, Danielle brings a unique and vulnerable lens to the profession, specializing in complex cases involving trauma, aggression, emotional regulation, and assistance dog training. Together, Ryan and Danielle explore the critical and often overlooked reality of isolation within the animal training industry. Danielle opens up about her personal journey living with dissociative identity disorder, explaining how the stigma surrounding her own mental health and disability mirrors the challenges many trainers face when they feel pressured to project an image of perfection. They discuss how the "Instagram-reality" of our profession often prevents trainers from seeking the support they need, leading to burnout, compassion fatigue, and imposter syndrome. The conversation also highlights the intersection of neuroscience and practical animal training. Danielle shares how her "meerkat analogy"—a tool for understanding the moment an animal shifts into survival mode—has become a cornerstone of her approach to trauma-informed practice. She offers a compassionate roadmap for professionals to build stronger, more collaborative networks, manage time budgets in the face of disability or neurodivergence, and create "safe spaces" where trainers can bounce ideas off one another without the fear of judgment. This episode is a heartfelt call to action for the industry to move away from competition and toward radical empathy. By leaning into vulnerability and acknowledging our shared human limitations, we can build a more inclusive, resilient, and supportive community for both the animals we train and the humans who care for them. Throughout this episode, we discuss: ✅ The "behavior odyssey" that led Danielle from zookeeping to clinical animal behavior ✅ Understanding the "lizard brain" and the universality of learning theory across species ✅ The hidden epidemic of isolation among animal professionals and why peer support is essential ✅ Danielle's personal experience with dissociative identity disorder and the importance of professional transparency ✅ How to build a sustainable, values-driven career while managing chronic illness or disability ✅ Moving from a "people-pleasing" mindset to setting healthy professional boundaries ✅ Why the future of our industry depends on true collaboration, compassion, and removing the shame associated with asking for help Whether you're a seasoned professional, a trainer navigating your own health challenges, or simply seeking a more supportive peer network, this episode offers a refreshing and empowering roadmap for creating a career that is built on safety, kindness, and connection. Links Website   www.controlthemeerkat.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/geekydogtrainer https://www.facebook.com/DanielleBeckCAB/ https://www.facebook.com/ControlTheMeerkat/ Insta https://www.instagram.com/controlthemeerkat/ https://www.instagram.com/geekydogtrainer/ TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@controlthemeerkat  Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@controlthemeerkat https://www.youtube.com/@DanielleBeck-CAB  

In this insightful conversation, Ryan Cartlidge is joined by Shane Gorbett — Curator of Animal Training and Behavior at the Philadelphia Zoo and current President of the Animal Behavior Management Alliance (ABMA). Shane brings a wealth of experience from the zoological world, where he specializes in animal care training and behavior management. Bringing a rare analytical lens to the profession, Shane challenges us to look past "common sense" and intuition, and instead embrace objective data as the foundation for high-level animal welfare and professional advocacy. Together, Ryan and Shane explore how documentation and data collection are far more than just administrative requirements; they are essential tools for clarity and institutional change. Shane shares how moving from "we think it's working" to "we know it's working" allows trainers to communicate more effectively with stakeholders, secure necessary resources, and prove the efficacy of their training programs. He offers practical reflections on how simple, consistent record-keeping can reveal trends that the human brain might otherwise miss, leading to more successful outcomes for both the animals and the humans who care for them. The conversation also highlights the role of the ABMA in fostering a global community where behavior management is shared across diverse species. Shane reflects on his journey hosting the ABMA podcast and the importance of professional collaboration in raising industry standards. For those who may feel intimidated by spreadsheets or "data phobia," Shane provides an empowering roadmap for starting small, finding the "why" behind the numbers, and using information to tell a more compelling and accurate story for the animals in our charge. Throughout this episode, we discuss: ✅ The shift from "intuition-based" to "data-driven" animal training ✅ Shane's role at the Philadelphia Zoo and his work leading the ABMA ✅ How to use objective data as a tool for advocacy and securing resources ✅ Overcoming "data phobia" and the practicalities of simple record-keeping ✅ The importance of tracking medical behaviors and husbandry progress for better welfare ✅ How the ABMA supports professional growth through global collaboration and shared knowledge ✅ Why objective evidence is the key to proving the "ripples" we create in our work ✅ Using data to bridge the gap between animal care staff and organizational leadership Whether you are working in a zoological setting, a domestic training environment, or simply looking for ways to elevate your professional standards, this episode offers a practical roadmap for using information to create a more ethical and impactful career. Links ABMA website: https://www.theabma.org/  Animal Behavior Conversations Podcast (Spotify): https://creators.spotify.com/pod/profile/theabmapodcast/  Email Shane: [email protected]  Philadelphia Zoo: https://www.philadelphiazoo.org/ 

In this perspective-shifting conversation, Ryan Cartlidge is joined by Kapil Patwardhan — a volunteer providing medical aid and food for dogs in Pune, India, an educator focused on community coexistence, and the author of the moving book The Dog I Could Not Save. Kapil brings a unique lens to the animal training world by advocating for the role of a "dog listener", emphasizing the profound wisdom found in free-ranging dogs who navigate complex human environments every day. Together, Ryan and Kapil explore the lives of "Indie" dogs and the delicate balance of coexisting with animals that aren't "owned" in the Western sense but are integral members of their local communities. Kapil shares his philosophy of non-interference and silent observation, explaining how allowing dogs to be our teachers can fundamentally change how we understand body language, social structures, and the concept of choice. He reflects on his personal journey from a technical background to providing hands-on medical aid in the streets of Pune, and how a singular, tragic loss shaped his mission to help others understand the "why" behind dog behavior to reduce human-animal conflict. The conversation also highlights the challenges faced by free-ranging dogs in rapidly urbanizing environments and the importance of educating the public on how to read canine signals to foster safer, more harmonious neighborhoods. Kapil offers practical reflections on how we can all become better listeners for the animals in our lives by prioritizing their agency and understanding the natural social behaviors that exist when human intervention is minimized. Throughout this episode, we discuss: ✅ The reality of free-ranging "Indie" dogs and their unique place in Indian society ✅ Becoming a "Dog Listener" and the transformative power of non-interference ✅ The story and inspiration behind the book The Dog I Could Not Save ✅ Reducing community conflict through education on canine body language ✅ Kapil's transition from a tech career to animal welfare and street-level medical aid ✅ How urbanization and modern infrastructure impact the social lives of street dogs ✅ Shifting our perspective to let dogs be the primary educators in our learning journey ✅ The importance of food and medical security for community-owned animals Whether you are a professional trainer looking for a fresh perspective on canine social dynamics, a volunteer in the rescue world, or someone interested in the intersection of culture and animal welfare, this episode offers aneye-opening roadmap for coexisting with the animals around us with greater empathy and understanding. Links India Dog study tours link - dogstudytour.com The Dog Who Goes To School Children's Book link for free download - https://ibh-hundeschulen.org/tipps/neu-der-hund-der-zur-schule-geht/ 

In this episode of the Animal Training Academy Podcast, Ryan Cartlidge is joined by Karen Deeds — a Certified Dog Behavior Consultant through the IAABC and co-owner of Canine Connection in Memphis. Bringing over three decades of experience across assistance dogs, the veterinary profession, and competitive sports, Karen shares a profound "origin story" from the early 1990s—a traumatic assault that her own dog intervened in—which shifted her entire focus from traditional obedience training to the complex emotional world of animal behaviour. Together, Ryan and Karen explore the transformative world of Multiple Marker Systems (MMS) and why the delivery of reinforcement is just as critical as the reinforcer itself. Karen explains how moving beyond a single clicker to specific verbal cues like "toss," "scatter," and "tush" can provide dogs with ultimate clarity, reducing frustration and creating a more cooperative partnership. They discuss the concept of "eating as a behaviour" and how strategically placing, moving, or slowing down food delivery can directly influence a dog's physical physiology and emotional state in both high-level sports and severe behaviour cases. The conversation also highlights the vital bridge between "in the trenches" experience and academic science. Karen reflects on a pivotal interaction at the University of North Texas with the ORCA group, highlighting the need for academia to meet practitioners in the middle to make technical lingo accessible and inclusive. Finally, Karen shares her vision for the future of the industry—a heartfelt call for "peace and harmony" and an end to the vitriol that can separate professionals, reminding us that empathy must extend to our human colleagues just as much as the animals we serve. Throughout this episode, we discuss: ✅ Karen's "Behaviour Odyssey" and the 1990 encounter that changed her career trajectory ✅ The technical mechanics of Multiple Marker Systems (MMS) vs. traditional clicker training ✅ Why "how" reinforcement is delivered is as important as the reinforcement itself ✅ The concept of treating eating as a behaviour and putting it on cue ✅ Bridging the gap between academic lingo and "in the trenches" training experience ✅ How to use "The Three Cs" (Change, Continue, Create) to address non-sport behaviours ✅ Impulse control vs. stimulus control and their role in behaviour modification ✅ A vision for the future of the industry: Unity, education, and moving past the "us against them" mentality Whether you're a professional behaviour consultant, a competitive sport enthusiast, or a pet owner navigating reactivity, this episode offers an empowering roadmap for using clarity and kindness to master your training skills.